Guilty Crown - Episode 17 Discussion / Poll

[Angelmonster]

I never thought in one episode would I hate everyone else and feel bad for Shuu. I also can't tell where the heck this anime is going, lol.

[black knight iust]

Originally Posted by Xaturas

Watch the opening closely. Then Profit.
For how it will work out in future eps, watch ED closely. Then Profit.

As for Yuma from DxD, can't blame the people, thought I myself would crucify her.

i wonder what would of happend if they clipped her wings while she was alive

that arm in the oppening looks like some thing from type moons fate series

[Xaturas]

Originally Posted by black knight iust

i wonder what would of happend if they clipped her wings while she was alive

that arm in the oppening looks like some thing from type moons fate series

It would hurt like hell probably.


For the God Arm. (bw there was a game like that God Hand was the title, where character had some super powered hand after it got cut off by some angel/demon/god or whoever he was).

It may actually be similar to Fate series Unlimited Blade works. Who knows maybe shu new hand will be able to *trace* some of basic voids, while pulling Inori will give the ultimate sword.
I just hope he will be able to power up his new hand by sucking out souls *voids* from people, and go on a crusade of disintegrating everyone that betrayed him. Once the series go dark it should stay dark.
I will be disappointed if Shu becomes some Merciful Jesus saving everyone who betrayed him. Considering his previous Hare Trauma and now this *Everyone betrayed me* trauma I cannot think of him being nice and cheery.
And It would be nice if he killed his mother in the process to, if she gets somehow forgiven it will just feel fake.

[miketyson]

There's not much wrong with the "second half" of Guilty crown (episodes what, 13 through 17, whenever the "school" scenario started) that couldn't be fixed with a slower pace (say, at least 2x the # of episodes to cover the "school" scenario). Even with this wacky episode behind us I can see how this show could've been groundbreaking and awesome, but it'd take a radically reorganized first half to make it work. It's been a singularly frustrating show in that sense. Usually I have criticisms and so on, but this is one for which there're just hair-pullingly huge amounts of missed potential each episode.

The "your void breaks means you turn into crystals" is bugging me now that I've seen how it plays out, too. The thing about it is that it should be something thats more of an issue for the F-rank types, because their crappy voids -- hammers, wrenches, etc. -- are the kinds of things that'd be at risk of accidental breakage...whereas the people with combat-tier voids would be using their voids in combat, and thus at risk of death anyways. With more time, they could've done a much more believable "Shuu discovers void break means crystallization => Shuu gets much pickier about pulling voids (only does it in case of emergency) + growing general unease in the school + low-rank voids on salvage duty discovering caches of weapons => revolt of the low-rank voids..." (or many other interesting angles). Having only a handful of episodes to work with means can't do those sorts of things.

In any case, the main challenge to predicting how things play out from here is the odds of there being a season 2 or movie or what not planned; I could easily see this eking out enough sales the ending is deliberately inconclusive, leaves a lot open-ended, and you'll have to wait for S2 or the theatrical film to get the real ending.

[Shinji103]

Originally Posted by Xaturas

I just hope he will be able to power up his new hand by sucking out souls *voids* from people, and go on a crusade of disintegrating everyone that betrayed him. Once the series go dark it should stay dark.
I will be disappointed if Shu becomes some Merciful Jesus saving everyone who betrayed him. Considering his previous Hare Trauma and now this *Everyone betrayed me* trauma I cannot think of him being nice and cheery.
And It would be nice if he killed his mother in the process to, if she gets somehow forgiven it will just feel fake.

Yeah.

Not. Bloody. Likely.

If he did that, then he'd actually become worse and would actually be validating their betrayal. It's much better morally to become the good guy and save everyone instead of letting it sink you into the Dark Side completely. Not realisitic, but it wouldn't be bad writing on Guilty Crown's part; morallity>realism has always been a staple for the main character. (unless you're talking about a character who's supposed to be a jackass, anyway, but I don't believe Shu is one of those)
Not to mention you'd have the flood of haters on the Internet who'd go "Oh wow what a murderous douchebag he turned out to be."

It would actually be more satisfying to see him go "Merciful Jesus," save them, and not give their betrayal another second's thought. Because it would be the ultimate "SUCK IT!" to them; he'll have become a much better person than all of them combined. And nothing sticks it to you more like getting saved by the guy you tried to kill.

A very similar scene was in Space Runaway Ideon some 30+ years ago when a group of good guys decided to become selfish and decided to use a good guy alien as a hostage to escape the bad guy aliens (friends of their hostage), leaving the rest of the good guys to rot. Their plan blew up in their face, and when they got back the good guy alien they took hostage took the blame for herself, saying she forced them to take her home. Because otherwise the rest of the good guys on the ship would turn on them and it would become chaos, screwing everyone over. It was OH SO SATISFYING to see the leader of those jackasses break down in tears of frustration at being saved by their own hostage.

Now, if they were all slaughtered by someone else, like one of the bad guys they betrayed Shu to get behind (dark Gai) or someone else that wouldn't have been able to kill them if they had stayed with Shu, I could get behind that. But only if they realized the error they made in betraying Shu just before the end.

[Bonta Kun]

Guess it was a good thing I caught up with this series before this ep, watching the last 5 eps plus this would have resulted in just a little bit of me dying but a good portion of my soul lol.
Yet here I am again and now watching this week after week again which I can tell probably won't be good for my old grey matter, anime it can affect us in some of the oddest and weirdest ways.

Like I said before I wonder how I can watch this when a majority of the time the script, writing, plot or whatever it is, keeps my face in the plam of my hand

Just bring out Mana already and have her take care of everyone that has wronged her wee brother, so they can live happliy ever after with none of these ass holes around.
I'd love to see Mana just own them ALL!

EDIT:

And It would be nice if he killed his mother in the process to, if she gets somehow forgiven it will just feel fake.

This is actually something I'm hoping for cause I honestly don't like how family issues/conflicts are always almost glossed over in anime and manga.
Just cause it's family it's ok that they wronged you, like hell!
While we don't really know the deal behind Haruka's actions atm, she doesn't seem to be doing anything for her son so off with her I say(altho that can change depending on whats to come)
Reminds me that I've brought it up in some other series where in particular a son/mother conflict would turn nasty and have proper "dues paid" so to speak, instead of forgiveness and what not.
Really hope they follow through and have Shu deal with Haruka in a manner that fits, doesn't actually have to be death but at least get to Haruka in such a way it leaves her distraught.
I know all that sounds awful and tbh I'm a famliy loving guy but it's anime and it's ok for me to be like this in this regard

[Xaturas]

Man can dream right?
I'm kinda tired of all the Hero's in todays works.
Would be nice if Shu became anti hero. Maybe not killing them deliberately but being indifferent to them dying left and right in front of him. (like he commented on Cannon Fodder deaths this ep, then proceeded to do his work)
Like Shu fights and endlave and theres a Character A from his school, and he just run trough the guy not giving a crap doing his work, then Character A gets blown to shit because of Endlave explosion or rockets.

Really theres enough of Mercifull Jesus left and right in every work I see.

Thats why playing Prototype was satisfying and when you learned that main hero was one of the antagonists it was even better. Now in Prototype 2 we will get some retard black man doing the Hero of America job ...

[Shinji103]

Originally Posted by Xaturas

Man can dream right?
I'm kinda tired of all the Hero's in todays works.
Would be nice if Shu became anti hero. Maybe not killing them deliberately but being indifferent to them dying left and right in front of him. (like he commented on Cannon Fodder deaths this ep, then proceeded to do his work)
Like Shu fights and endlave and theres a Character A from his school, and he just run trough the guy not giving a crap doing his work, then Character A gets blown to shit because of Endlave explosion or rockets.

Really theres enough of Mercifull Jesus left and right in every work I see.

Thats why playing Prototype was satisfying and when you learned that main hero was one of the antagonists it was even better. Now in Prototype 2 we will get some retard black man doing the Hero of America job ...

Well that's just the way entertainment works; the occasional antihero/evil main character works fine, but the major majority of people will never accept an evil main character as a mainstay, i.e. in most movies/TV series/games. As I pointed out, turning Shu into an antihero who doesn't care about anybody else besides Inori will just make him more hated by the haters.

But after all the heavily exaggerated crap the writers and staff have put Shu through in this show, the ending had better involve Shu and Inori together and happy.

I definitely don't want to see Tsugumi and Argo suddenly falling back in line after screwing with him as if they believed in him the whole time like they did back in the outbreak. Ayase I do want to see return to Shu's side because while she may not have caught on to the revolt, that doesn't change that she didn't agree with it nor had any part in it, and tried to stop it. It's just that as hard as she tries, the wheelchair will always be a serious handicap.

[Darthtabby]

Originally Posted by miketyson

There's not much wrong with the "second half" of Guilty crown (episodes what, 13 through 17, whenever the "school" scenario started) that couldn't be fixed with a slower pace (say, at least 2x the # of episodes to cover the "school" scenario). Even with this wacky episode behind us I can see how this show could've been groundbreaking and awesome, but it'd take a radically reorganized first half to make it work. It's been a singularly frustrating show in that sense. Usually I have criticisms and so on, but this is one for which there're just hair-pullingly huge amounts of missed potential each episode.

Dude, I think you more or less nailed the major problem with this episode. Things happened too fast. They needed more time for things to play out in order to make them convincing.

[Bonta Kun]

Originally Posted by Xaturas

Man can dream right?
I'm kinda tired of all the Hero's in todays works.
Would be nice if Shu became anti hero. Maybe not killing them deliberately but being indifferent to them dying left and right in front of him. (like he commented on Cannon Fodder deaths this ep, then proceeded to do his work)
Like Shu fights and endlave and theres a Character A from his school, and he just run trough the guy not giving a crap doing his work, then Character A gets blown to shit because of Endlave explosion or rockets.

Really theres enough of Mercifull Jesus left and right in every work I see.

Well after whats happened the thing I'd always see is the people then coming back to hero for his help when things go even more pear shaped than they did before and the hero applying his "he's better than all that so he'll help out" does so.
If the students go to Shu for help but Shu simply ignores them then I could go with that.
And I'm guessing things will probably go very pear shaped if they are hanging around with Gai-2.0.

[Endscape]

I'll give it 8/10.

It's true that Shu was an asshole, but turning on him after they use him to escape was the height of ungratefulness. As for Arisa, I was initially surprised at her, but thinking on it, it was to be expected. She's a coward through and through, and that's the type of thing cowards do when their backs are against the wall.

[bevan]

Oh man, what a ride this episode has been

[serenade_beta]

UOOOHHHHH!!! The ol' Guilty Crown is back!
Truly, it isn't Guilty Crown if it doesn't have you laughing out loud. And it is finally back! Yeah!

Everyone from one side to the other are so trash.
Yahiro: "You should hide this fact!" -->
Yahiro: "How dare you lie to people!"

Students: "Yeah, Shuu FTW!" -->
Students: "Die, Shuu!"
Well, he deserved it, so yeah, *snort*

And god, just like everyone's mind set, their life is so random too. So the Society guy is alive?! Then what the hell was the last part in the previous episode for?! So you could do something cool?! Like rambling about being Eve?! (@script)


And then the charging towards the tower scene...
Everyone had the same Boyd. There goes your creativity. Even the wrench was better.
And then, Shuu talks about not losing people.
HAH?!
There are students dying here!
And what is worse, from what is shown, he could have clearly destroyed all of the enemies on his own. What was the point of the blind student charge? He doesn't need backup. At least balance Shuu out a little so the scene makes sense, please.


My ARRRMMMmM!
MY KING"S POWERRRRRR!!!
Eh? That's more important than your arm? As expected of Shuu-sama~ (snort)

[Freeter]

Finished watching the raw.

Very disappointing how the writers had to do a 180 on Shu and Inori and make the viewers pity them. Making them the true villains of the show would have been quite the refreshing twist, but nope...we get Sephiroth Gai instead

Ayase will side with Shu, that much was made certain from this ep...unless the writers pull another 180 and have her get wet over Gai's new dye job

Maybe Mana's persona will transfer over to Arisa in the future, especially since she'll whore herself out to Gai just to be his right-hand woman. And don't get me started on Yahiro. Unlike with Shu, he's totally going to be Gai's heel

So, how many F/SN parodies can we expect when Shu gets his new arm? Maybe Ayase can cosplay as Saber

[whiplash]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

The UN voting to "terminate" Japan just puts it over the top for me too. I guess most of the world's nations in Guilty Crown are run by genocidal madmen now.

If I remember correct, thanks to the group antibodies most of the world probably thinks this is a virus outbreak so the best way to kill it is via extreme radiation or heat regardless of the lost of human life. I highly doubt that group knew everything and didn't have someone pulling the strings.

Shu got what he deserved due to being a half ass dictator. Unfortunately. But I hope that once he gets his new powers whatever it is, he kills every sob that betrayed / knew about his powers and him and Inori have a happy ending.

.....That must be a first that I want the main character to kill everyone in the series usually I want to add the main character into that list.

[Xaturas]

Originally Posted by whiplash

But I hope that once he gets his new powers whatever it is, he kills every sob that betrayed / knew about his powers and him and Inori have a happy ending.

.....That must be a first that I want the main character to kill everyone in the series usually I want to add the main character into that list.

End of Evangelion ending would be nice.

Everyone on the planet dead.
Shu (Shinji) Inori (Asuka) sitting/laying on a beach.

[djmaca]

10/10

Not really concerned that they stabbed Shu in the back(finally). I have seen it a mile off because 'Sugar' was the one running the backstage...

No matter. They will all get their dues if Shu gets back to his feet and starts a genocide. I won't be surprised if it will make the Moonbase scene in Gundam Seed Destiny looks tame, bodies popping everywhere. Shu should have quickly realize he doesn't need 'Sugar' and had eliminated him earlier.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

The UN voting to "terminate" Japan just puts it over the top for me too. I guess most of the world's nations in Guilty Crown are run by genocidal madmen now.

And LO! Behold! The perfect man for the job of terminating Japan appears with his arms cut.

[dark998]

This episode = mindblown. Truly an abrupt way to end Shu's small phase as "tryant", Arisa's coup d etat and Gai slashing off the arm and grabbing the genome was overkill.

But fortunately not everything is lost, as long as Inori stays him hope still exists. Those two will find a way to make things work and turn the tide in their favor. Now the big question is: how is he going to get that crystal arm?

[clef]

This whole mess is Souta's fault.

Looks like the third Leucocyte satellite Shu didn't destroy makes an appearance next episode. Hopefully Gai left the targeting pen in his coat pocket for Shu to conveniently use to blow up something big.

[Darthtabby]

On another note, I'm going to pretty strongly disagree with a lot of the criticism Arisa is getting this episode. It seems to me that a lot of people are basically condemning her for not valuing her virginity more than her life. She was in a situation where as she saw it she knew too much and could be eliminated at any time. What she did was what she felt was necessary to survive and fight back.

Personally, I'm more bothered by the fact that she somehow managed to get pretty much the entire school to turn against Shu and did so without tipping off what few allies he had than I am by her morals. That development strains credibility.