[Manga] Chapter 430 Discussion

[reloaded]

Originally Posted by Freya

He used Rasengan. Go back and look.

actually ur right its looks like rasengan but hows he still holding the form even after the connection

[Slayerx]

Originally Posted by seiji_kun

Genin lvl tactics? I don't think a lot of genins go use around kage bunshin like Naruto. If you want to downsize that he had him fooled be my guest, I didn't found it that noobie since he thougth the original was wielding the FSR.

Actually, now that i think about it we have seen a genin level ninja use that bait a switch KB tactic before... Naruto used the same tactic against Neji in the chunin exams. He made a bunch of clones mixed himself within, had one stand out and attacked Neji when he aimed for the fake that stood out... The only real difference was that Naruto used a lot more clones back then and the fake was that stood out was much more subtle and less obvious... actually, those differences actually made the tactic more clever

When it came to Kakuzu Vs Naruto, Naruto made fewer clones and the fake clone, the one holding the FSR, was incredibly obvious. question is, what's the point of using Shadow clones if you are gonna tell the enemy which one is the real one? confusing the enemy is half the purpose of using the move in the first place... Kakuzu completely ruled out the possibility that naruto would use KB the way it's supposed to be used and assumed that he was standing right there... Essentially, waht Naruto set up was an obvious trap and this is an S-class ninja, with the intelligence and experience to back it up that we are talking about

not to mention the fact that he could have split apart into three and made certain that Naruto could not hit more than one heart... he did afterall recognize the technique as being something very destructive.... or Hell he could have used KB himself to watch his own back; hard to believe he could live so long and not have a KB technique of somekind

[Fran~]

it's really amazing how a lot of people search the minimal aspect to downgrade Naruto's battles...

it's POINTLESS to be so analytical about fights in Narutoverse...

just enjoy the show and forget the details.

[incube]

Originally Posted by AuroraFlash

Agreed in general, but disagreeing to your examples. Naruto has no trouble with Neji and he'd win that fight easier than ever now. Neji has worked on his skills, but the gentle fist is not dangerous for Naruto, because he has the Kyuubi inside of him and now he also has natural energy.

And please, who is Rock Lee? He can only use taijutsu. It didn't work against Gaara back then, it won't work against the new stability of a Sennin Mode Naruto, no way! He's faster, he's insanely stable, maybe invincible to taijutsu moves.

The only serious thread for Naruto is Sasuke. He is strong enough and he has the abilities to beat Naruto (genjutsu, sharingan).

Yeah that is why i said maybe.... the reason i mentioned them is because im not sure if Naruto can whistand Rock Lee after releasing those "gates" and as for Neji... well maybe he isnt at Naruto's level xD

Originally Posted by seiji_kun

He can envy the bijuus powers as much as he wants it still doesn't make him come any closer to the Kyuubi since he'll never be able to extract Kyuubi or have Naruto under his command. He's a dreamer to view it as something he'll ever have any personal benefit over so if he does I'll view him as a positive minded overambitious fool but I guess it is possible since it's been done in the Sand before.

I think you are mistaken if you think Danzou is the evil guy that wants to destroy the village and kill everyone in it.... he is determined to protect Konoha and even make it more powerfulin but in his own way. To him Naruto is just another ninja from the village that he would willingly sacrifice for the safety and prosperity of the whole village.... maybe it sounds a bit cruel but the whole purpose of having ninjas is to protect the village. And if you think about all the anonimous ninjas that died in order to protect Naruto from dangerous missions and the risk his brings to Konoha just by beeing there... i dont think weighting the whole village agaisnt only one funny / hokage wanna be ninja is that bad of a thing -.-

Originally Posted by Fran~

it's really amazing how a lot of people search the minimal aspect to downgrade Naruto's battles...

it's POINTLESS to be so analytical about fights in Narutoverse...

just enjoy the show and forget the details.

very true... what impresses me more than anything in Naruto's fights is his determination and the spirit of never giving up.... they are really inspiring xD

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by AuroraFlash

Lol, Team 10 is now the strongest (after Team 7 has lost Sasuke of course... otherwise, they'd be the strongest now!)...

Team 7 is the strongest team of Konoha simply because Naruto's in it.
People have to finally understand that the characters who were still significant power-wise during the Chunnin exam are now barely above fodder fighting in the background compared to Naruto and Sasuke.
Had team 10 be there to fight Pain instead of Kakashi, Chouji & co, it would be Gai lying there almost dead from opening too many Gates, having sacrificed himself in order for Lee to get words of Pain's power to Tsunade.
And similarly Sasuke and Naruto would walked all over them. They simply aren't in the same league than the real players anymore.

Heck Fukasaku basically said that Naruto has surpassed not only Jiraiya but also Yondaime at this point.

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by Hunter

Heck Fukasaku basically said that Naruto has surpassed not only Jiraiya but also Yondaime at this point.

I wonder why are people overlooking such trivial facts, when several characters of the manga state a fact but it seems some readers just ignore those words. I mean this was stated in this last chapter (can't even say that it was forgotten because it was in a chapter years ago) by someone who trained kage level people and yet people argue if Naruto has surpassed chuunin level.

[Biswa]

Judging from the recent chapters and how things have been going generally, it is possible that the Naruto series is winding down to an end. Does anyone else agree?

Firstly, Naruto's strength/skill are just about surpassing the old generation of legends. If this is really true, then he is already more than half way to his Hokage goal. He has already shown to be stronger than Tsunade. The only thing left for him to do is grow up a bit, possibly attain the chuunin/jounin ranks (which I would like to see if he just owns everybody), and receive recognition from the elders.

Secondly, Sasuke is returning to Konoha to destroy it... but that's already done now. So will he have any purpose after coming back? I see that this issue will be resolved when he rejoins in changing the infrastructure of Konoha. This may involve only in agreement with Naruto's generation taking over the village, rather than the people who screwed over Itachi. I think that will best resolve this issue. It will also coincide with Naruto becoming Hokage.

Finally, I don't see any other issue needing to be resolved after the end of Akatsuki. I suppose the Tobi/Madara arc may be the biggest issue after this... but maybe the best way to deal with this is after Naruto becomes a Jounin. After that, I really don't want to see another arc. Naruto should already be the strongest in the village at that point (maybe already at this point), so once again...

I really feel that Naruto SHOULD end soon, because it really seems like a good time to. There's no point in dragging these things out... the payoff is already low enough. I don't think we have to go through another 3 or 4 hokages to get to Naruto. If he isn't the 6th, he should be the 7th... if the 6th was Kakashi. But the way things are looking with Kakashi now, maybe it would be wise to skip over directly.

Your opinions?

[incube]

Originally Posted by Biswa

Judging from the recent chapters and how things have been going generally, it is possible that the Naruto series is winding down to an end. Does anyone else agree?

Secondly, Sasuke is returning to Konoha to destroy it... but that's already done now. So will he have any purpose after coming back? I see that this issue will be resolved when he rejoins in changing the infrastructure of Konoha. This may involve only in agreement with Naruto's generation taking over the village, rather than the people who screwed over Itachi. I think that will best resolve this issue. It will also coincide with Naruto becoming Hokage.


I really feel that Naruto SHOULD end soon, because it really seems like a good time to. There's no point in dragging these things out... the payoff is already low enough. I don't think we have to go through another 3 or 4 hokages to get to Naruto. If he isn't the 6th, he should be the 7th... if the 6th was Kakashi. But the way things are looking with Kakashi now, maybe it would be wise to skip over directly.

Your opinions?

I dont think Kakashi is Hokage material.... and as for Sasuke, his main reason for returning to Konoha is to beat Danzou to a pulp and all those old ppl that knew about the plans to eradicate his clan and didnt do anything to prevent it.

But i do agree that Naruto is reaching to its end... i dont think starting a new arc after akatsuki is a wise thing to do.

[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by Biswa

Judging from the recent chapters and how things have been going generally, it is possible that the Naruto series is winding down to an end. Does anyone else agree?....

I really feel that Naruto SHOULD end soon, because it really seems like a good time to. There's no point in dragging these things out... the payoff is already low enough. I don't think we have to go through another 3 or 4 hokages to get to Naruto. If he isn't the 6th, he should be the 7th... if the 6th was Kakashi. But the way things are looking with Kakashi now, maybe it would be wise to skip over directly.

Your opinions?

Well, if Naruto has already surpassed Yondaime and Jiraiya then his power should start to plateau because there just aren't anymore measuring sticks to surpass anymore. If that's the case, then Naruto ceases to be a coming-of-age story and it'll lose most of its appeal if dragged out too much further

But there's still a lot of story threads that I think will take awhile to wrap up: like Pein's true form, the fates of the rest of the Akatsuki members, whether Kira Bee is gonna be recaptured, what Danzou has planned, what's going to be the results of this Kage summit, what Sasuke and his team are gonna do , Madara's secrets, and a insane half Orofied Kabuto's still scheming out there too... that's well over two years of storyline if it's done right.

I see that this issue will be resolved when he rejoins in changing the infrastructure of Konoha. This may involve only in agreement with Naruto's generation taking over the village, rather than the people who screwed over Itachi. I think that will best resolve this issue. It will also coincide with Naruto becoming Hokage.

Not happening...people don't read shounen to see the characters reach peaceful solutions. I don't know what Sasuke's going to do now that Konoha's already been destroyed, but I doubt it's anything that diplomatic.

[Kishimyu]

Yeah, Akatsuki is the main evil bad guys and it should end after that.

I wonder what is going to happen to Kanoha though, nearly all of it's citizens have been killed and Danzou still plans on taking it; plus who knows what Danzou is capable of though he looks like an old man that's handy-capped.

[incube]

Originally Posted by Hunter

Team 7 is the strongest team of Konoha simply because Naruto's in it.
People have to finally understand that the characters who were still significant power-wise during the Chunnin exam are now barely above fodder fighting in the background compared to Naruto and Sasuke.
Had team 10 be there to fight Pain instead of Kakashi, Chouji & co, it would be Gai lying there almost dead from opening too many Gates, having sacrificed himself in order for Lee to get words of Pain's power to Tsunade.
And similarly Sasuke and Naruto would walked all over them. They simply aren't in the same league than the real players anymore.

Heck Fukasaku basically said that Naruto has surpassed not only Jiraiya but also Yondaime at this point.

Maybe you are rushing it a bit... Naruto was still getting owned all the time before he created the new rasengan and even after creating such a strong technique he found out he could only use it a limited times. And as for the natural chakra thingy, he just learned it and never used it in a real battle yet. I do think Naruto is a lot stronger than before but i woudnt take it so literally when ppl say "he surpassed jiraiya or Yondaime". You cannot determine the strength of someone when he just popped from nowhere and all he did was pimp slap one of Pain's bodies while in bad conditions xD

What Kakashi and Tsunade saw was the hope or as Shikamaru said "the will of fire" in Naruto... and that "fire" is represented by someone they admire, in kakashi's case it was yondaime and as for tsunade it was Jiraiya. Naruto still lacks lots of experience to really surpass any of them.

[Freya]

Originally Posted by Slayerx

Actually, now that i think about it we have seen a genin level ninja use that bait a switch KB tactic before... Naruto used the same tactic against Neji in the chunin exams. He made a bunch of clones mixed himself within, had one stand out and attacked Neji when he aimed for the fake that stood out... The only real difference was that Naruto used a lot more clones back then and the fake was that stood out was much more subtle and less obvious... actually, those differences actually made the tactic more clever

When it came to Kakuzu Vs Naruto, Naruto made fewer clones and the fake clone, the one holding the FSR, was incredibly obvious. question is, what's the point of using Shadow clones if you are gonna tell the enemy which one is the real one? confusing the enemy is half the purpose of using the move in the first place... Kakuzu completely ruled out the possibility that naruto would use KB the way it's supposed to be used and assumed that he was standing right there... Essentially, waht Naruto set up was an obvious trap and this is an S-class ninja, with the intelligence and experience to back it up that we are talking about

not to mention the fact that he could have split apart into three and made certain that Naruto could not hit more than one heart... he did afterall recognize the technique as being something very destructive.... or Hell he could have used KB himself to watch his own back; hard to believe he could live so long and not have a KB technique of somekind

You do KNOW that if Naruto was to take the Chuunin exam right now he probably be a Chuunin now and maybe a Jounin. So stop bitching about him doing crap stuff because he's a genin.

[Wargumm1i]

Originally Posted by Freya

You do KNOW that if Naruto was to take the Chuunin exam right now he probably be a Chuunin now and maybe a Jounin. So stop bitching about him doing crap stuff because he's a genin.

Indeed, only reason why he is a genin is because he was away for 2-3 years, so he never got the chance to take the test again.

So he is only genin for such a simple reason, while he has all the qualifactions to reach Chuunin, even Jounin.

So lets just wait until chapter 431+ come out.

[james0246]

Originally Posted by incube

Maybe you are rushing it a bit... Naruto was still getting owned all the time before he created the new rasengan and even after creating such a strong technique he found out he could only use it a limited times. And as for the natural chakra thingy, he just learned it and never used it in a real battle yet. I do think Naruto is a lot stronger than before but i woudnt take it so literally when ppl say "he surpassed jiraiya or Yondaime". You cannot determine the strength of someone when he just popped from nowhere and all he did was pimp slap one of Pain's bodies while in bad conditions xD

Asura Pain was fully healed, so this particular Pain body was at full strength...and then Naruto did what multiple Jounin fighting at once could not, he destroyed a body with complete ease.

I am not sure why anyone is debating this anymore. Everyone marvels at Naruto's growth, multiple characters (who all knew/taught/were taught by incredibly strong individuals) remark at how Naruto has surpassed all those before him, the current and former generation fight almost exclusively for Naruto (Jounin, Chuunin and genin alike were willing to die for Naruto). In the end, Naruto is well beyond almost anyone currently (known) in Konoha, with only Tsunade and Kakashi and possibly Gai posing any amount of threat (and even then, they would have to use their most powerful techniques in order to fight Naruto). Naruto (and Sasuke, I guess), for better or worse, are simply beyond everyone currently. It can be argued that Kishimoto did not present this information in the smoothest or most efficient manner, but when all the high level character start to emphasize how much further along Naruto is, then that is the only information relevant to the discussion, no matter how badly the information was presented.

[tatami]

Originally Posted by Hunter

Heck Fukasaku basically said that Naruto has surpassed not only Jiraiya but also Yondaime at this point.

or he sees both in naruto all together...

or he sees the other ones they trained and how naruto was able to walk the same path

or how naruto resembles both of them

or how the legacy somehow worked

or how both j man and yondaime had faith in naruto

[incube]

Originally Posted by james0246

Asura Pain was fully healed, so this particular Pain body was at full strength...and then Naruto did what multiple Jounin fighting at once could not, he destroyed a body with complete ease.

I am not sure why anyone is debating this anymore. Everyone marvels at Naruto's growth, multiple characters (who all knew/taught/were taught by incredibly strong individuals) remark at how Naruto has surpassed all those before him, the current and former generation fight almost exclusively for Naruto (Jounin, Chuunin and genin alike were willing to die for Naruto). In the end,
Naruto is well beyond almost anyone currently (known) in Konoha, with only Tsunade and Kakashi and possibly Gai posing any amount of threat (and even then, they would have to use their most powerful techniques in order to fight Naruto). Naruto (and Sasuke, I guess), for better or worse, are simply beyond everyone currently. It can be argued that Kishimoto did not present this information in the smoothest or most efficient manner, but when all the high level character start to emphasize how much further along Naruto is, then that is the only information relevant to the discussion, no matter how badly the information was presented.

It feels kind of strange to see a Naruto admired by everyone and suddenly becoming the strongest ninja in all Konoha only after two fights.... he trains for a couple of weeks and beats the akatsuki and then he trains a bit more and now he is the strongest guy in all konoha? He acquired very powerful techniques but it is hard to believe he mastered them and surpassed either kakashi, jiraiya or yondaime's experience and years of training in just some weeks.

I actually like this new Naruto being finally acknowleaged by everyone but i think the process should have been shown to us better and at a slower pace....

[Freya]

Originally Posted by incube

It feels kind of strange to see a Naruto admired by everyone and suddenly becoming the strongest ninja in all Konoha only after two fights.... he trains for a couple of weeks and beats the akatsuki and then he trains a bit more and now he is the strongest guy in all konoha? He acquired very powerful techniques but it is hard to believe he mastered them and surpassed either kakashi, jiraiya or yondaime's experience and years of training in just some weeks.

I actually like this new Naruto being finally acknowleaged by everyone but i think the process should have been shown to us better and at a slower pace....

Hey we're talking about Kishi here. He screwed that slow and thorough process ages ago. A lot of people are just either Sasuke fans or just Naruto haters. We're not the ones who are saying Naruto surpassed this person or that person. The freaking frogs did.

[GusGus]

Originally Posted by Wargumm1i

I really cant stand how people always look down on Naruto, I mean he always pulls through in the end, he has always beaten every enemy he has fought, so yeah the quick movement and the power he displayed in chapter 430 was proof he could fight Pain on equal terms.

And I dont think that Naruto will loose the Kyuubi unless the Kyuubi sacrifces himself to save Naruto.

The only reason why Gaara is alive is because the old lady medical ninja used a resurrection jutsu too resurrect Gaara, so i dont think a similer event will happen.

Also why dont you want him to win? even if he is on the same level as Sasuke, Itachi, Jiraya, 5th hokage and the 4th hokage, still doesnt mean he isint the same silly ninja as he was before.

Also if im not correct, i think that more than 50% of the readers want Naruto to mature a little and be more professional about his skills, and still show alot of comedy from time to time.

If you look at it this way, this is a perfect opportunity for Kishimoto too make either a time skip, because If naruto kills Pain then the leader of Akatsuki is dead, and also along with its goal, unless another Akatsuki takes Leadership and continues the goal.

So that not only means Naruto is free too move around for a while, but we also might get a time skip when he is bit older about 1-2 years, because hey the village was destroyed, it will take a heck of alot time to rebuild.

Or we could get a 1-100 chapters of Naruto doing missions which would be refreshing, because all the Sasuke chasing and Akatsuki thing is making Naruto loosing its comedy bit by bit.

I mean who knows, lets just wait 2 weeks.

Naruto could lose the kyubi without diying, Gara did thanks to a jutsu no body knew about, Kishimoto can come with something else to save naruto.

I don't want Naruto to win 'cause like other people has said, the transition from the hardworker genin to this "most powerful ninja in konoha by far" has been everything but smooth.

One week he's fighting side to side with kakashi, then he trains a week and surpass kakashi and then he trains two days more and he's stronger than the fourth.

I'm not criticiseing Naruto here, but Kishimoto's poor work.

[Freya]

Originally Posted by GusGus

Naruto could lose the kyubi without diying, Gara did thanks to a jutsu no body knew about, Kishimoto can come with something else to save naruto.

I don't want Naruto to win 'cause like other people has said, the transition from the hardworker genin to this "most powerful ninja in konoha by far" has been everything but smooth.

One week he's fighting side to side with kakashi, then he trains a week and surpass kakashi and then he trains two days more and he's stronger than the fourth.

I'm not criticiseing Naruto here, but Kishimoto's poor work.

Oh well. We'll see how Naruto does. Maybe sage mode is all that.

[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by Wargumm1i

Indeed, only reason why he is a genin is because he was away for 2-3 years, so he never got the chance to take the test again.

So he is only genin for such a simple reason, while he has all the qualifactions to reach Chuunin, even Jounin.

So lets just wait until chapter 431+ come out.

That's putting it mildly. Naruto's definitely Kage level. It's almost kinda pointless at this point to promote him to chuunin or jounin.

Good work Naruto, you've defeated the strongest enemy Konoha's ever seen, I think you're ready to be a chuunin!

Originally Posted by tatami

or he sees both in naruto all together...

or he sees the other ones they trained and how naruto was able to walk the same path

or how naruto resembles both of them

or how the legacy somehow worked

or how both j man and yondaime had faith in naruto

Eh? Hunter's not speculating what Fuksaku was thinking. We saw Fuksaku remarking that Naruto has surpassed Jiraiya and Yondaime.