AnimeSuki Forums

Ithekro · 2012-02-10, 01:44

Depends on if you want to carry ammo or not. Also if you care about what your 38-kiloton slugs will do to someone else later on.

One thing to remember: Pirates (legal ones). In wartime their role (if anything like historical privateers) would be to interdict enemy shipping, cut supply lines, and if the opportunity presents itself to were the Privateer thinks they have the advantage, capture or destroy enemy warships.

Most interdiction is capture shipping and/or cargo so it can be used for your side of the conflict. This include putting on a Prize Crew to get the vessel safely back to a friendly port. If the Privateer cannot afford to put on a prize crew, and cannot take on the cargo...they usually take off the prize ship's crew and destroy the ship. It is usually against practise to just destroy the ship without warning and definately without allowed the crew to abandon it first. (This is why the world disagreed with the German U-boats in the First World War....they could not operate by the old traditions since those U-boats were slow, fragile, and had no room for cargo or prisoners. They were suppose to surface, order a ship to surrender, let the crew abandon ship, and then sink it. However, lots of cargo ships could actually outrun the U-boats...the U-boats could be sunk on the surface by small cannons...one is reported to have been sunk by a truck landing on it from a ship it destroyed. Plus with convoys, you can't afford to wait for a ship to abandon ship when destroyers and sub chasers are coming. So they just sank the ships...without warning. Totally against the laws of the sea, and appauled the Americans (and British, though the British were stopping American ships that were going to Germany...they just used the old ways to do it rather than the "barbaric" ways of the German U-boat).

Thus, a Space Privateer would not want to use a weapon that would outright destroy the prize ship on the first shot. Nor would they want to have to worry about ammunition (as that costs money and eats into the crew's shares of the profit). Now they might have something solid to deal with warships, or if the beam weapons can't piece hulls (whch seems unlikely in this case), than they might have missiles or bolters to "sink" ships...but only when needed.

Also judging from the trailer, we will see fighters at some point...they look like they are remote controlled like the yachts were in the first episode. They seem to have energy weapons, but with just quick flashes from a trailer it is hard to tell.

Random Wanderer · 2012-02-10, 02:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by MeisterBabylon

Every three seconds, the primary cannon accelerates a pair to 1.3% of light-speed. It impacts with the force of a 38-kiloton bomb. That is three times the yield of the city-buster dropped on Hiroshima back on Earth. That means, Sir Issac Newton is the deadliest son-of-a-bitch in space.

I have heard that speech more times than you can imagine. You left out a bit, but I suppose mentioning Everett-class dreadnoughts wouldn't work, since they belong in another universe.

MeisterBabylon · 2012-02-10, 06:08

I see... So pirates favor energy boats for the reasons afore stated. I guess that means that ships with lots of cargo, plying dangerous routes, would prefer kinetic energy weapons because a) they don't have to worry about blowing shit up, and b) they save on mass otherwise taken up by cooling systems needed to keep the beam systems chilled.

You might argue that ammo takes up the same amount of space as cooling systems, but I guess it really depends on the universe eh?

*looks at EVE ship equipping rules*

Sinestra · 2012-02-10, 08:33

I was pretty apprehensive about watching this series. But a few members convienced me to give it a shot. So i sat down and watched the first episode last night. Overall not looks like there could be some nice comedic gold here. I will catch up with the rest this weekend and see how i feel. But so far its got my attention more than i thought it would.

AbZeroNow · 2012-02-10, 15:46

I'm enjoying the discussions on what kind of weaponry the space privateers would use, and I hope I can remember to do a post on the possibility of quantum computers as part of the technology in use in this series.

I just want to put these two links here so they can be found:
Mouretsu Pirates Social Group (Thanks Nerroth)
Light Novel Thread

Kyuu · 2012-02-10, 15:56

Space pirates. And weapons. We've seen the beam guns. And beam guns off ships.

Well, how about the space version of the sword? Though, part of me doesn't want to see a beam sword. We've seen plenty of Jedi, who can use these sort of weapons.

spawnofthejudge · 2012-02-10, 16:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyuu

Space pirates. And weapons. We've seen the beam guns. And beam guns off ships.

Well, how about the space version of the sword? Though, part of me doesn't want to see a beam sword. We've seen plenty of Jedi, who can use these sort of weapons.

I'm reasonably sure you didn't mean this, but I can only think of the sword-shaped army ships at the end of last week's episode. Ramming always works indeed.

Ithekro · 2012-02-10, 16:37

The boardng parties shows at the very start looked like they had some blades. Look like normal one, though they could be of the hypersonic vibrating type.

If a heavy hand-held beam cannon can go through multiple tanks....you don't want to be using that inside a ship in space..or at least a ship that doesn't have massive armor or super strength materals for the bulkheads. Otherwise you are going to be sucking vaccum. So either you use a lighter beam weapon that won't generally punch though bulkheads (Babylon 5 used small plasma guns instead of bullets so they wouldn't piece the hull) or you use melee weapons (Legend of the Galactic Heroes....though that was more to do with the fact that most militaries used some form of particle that would explode if guns were used, but giant axes and combat armor would be safe...if bloody.)

I imagine the beam weapons can be set low low enough that they can be used as an intimidating light show (no idea if they have a "stun setting") like Marika's mom's entrance at the very beginning of the show. But she did say that having a big gun in their form of Piracy was 90% first impression, and thus only maybe 10% comabt use. If the passangers and crew of a cargo ship are impressed (afraid for their lives) you will not have to shoot the gun to kill anyone.

And yes I think the blade shaped ships from the military are "Ramming always works" type ships. Harlock uses that when he wants to impress on the enemy that he will kill them no matter what.

Shimapan · 2012-02-10, 21:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by DragoonKain3

Also makes me wonder why these type of anime (or light novels as this one is based on) don't use missiles as their main weaponry instead. I mean, if you're going to aim to be realistic, why not use the weapon a lot of people theorize would be the main one? But I guess energy weapons are so much cooler lols.

Missiles would require a running main computer for target lock. They had to shut it down because they got hacked, so no target lock.
Missiles are too expensive to just blindly fire away when you most likely won't hit anything.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 00Coyote

VA connections aside, Captain would work, Commander or Admiral works well too.

The school just HAPPENS to have a huge ex-warship in its own hangar at the relay station (not cheap), with a yacht club that happens to attract talented girls, and Jenny happens to be from a influential space family. (Spaaaaaaace!)

I would not be surprised if the whole school is a farm system for some secret or not so secret government organization. I'll be surprised (and a bit disappointed) if this is the last we see of Jenny Dolittle.

I'd be surprised as well. She could e.g. put the Odette II back in place in it's former role, as the captain, to help out

RX-78GP04G Gerbera · 2012-02-10, 22:21

Yeah, unless you have some way of manually controlling them somehow, like wires.

Random Wanderer · 2012-02-10, 23:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shimapan

Missiles would require a running main computer for target lock. They had to shut it down because they got hacked, so no target lock.
Missiles are too expensive to just blindly fire away when you most likely won't hit anything.

Each missle could also have an internal targeting computer.

Ithekro · 2012-02-10, 23:57

Pretty far to have a wire. 400,000 km also would take a while to cross at anything less than 0.1 of light speed. Sure missiles today also travel long disances and take time to reach targets...but they don't have to travel 400,000 km.

I wonder how much space 400,000+ km of the appropriate wire would take inside the missile? And how much fuel it would need.

With EW as shown so far in the show, I'd worry about any onboard targetting system getting hacked on the way to the target...or just being scrambled and make ineffective (rendering it a dumbfire or perhaps worse...are rogue missiles that could circle back and hit a friendly ship).

Yes I am aware other series use missiles from time to time quite well at those distances. Those series tend to not usually have shields or EW in them, were the missile are shot down by either spray and pray defensive fire (Space Battleship Yamato), or point defense shielding (Macross). Also the missiles tend to follow random paths to the target (Macross), or can come in the huge size variety (Space Battleship Yamato). Yamato's enemies eventually got to the point sides were using planet destroying missiles larger than battleships, or smaller random radiation of the week special missiles that could one shot kill most Earth ships and evade defensive fire due to numbers. Of course there were also Space Submarines...since Yamato was pretty much World War II and the early days of the Cold War...IN SPACE.

This series has not shown that sort of thing to us yet and seems to be taking the science parts slightly more seriously that the usual Space Operas.

And while a cooling system might be large (the ships so far seem to use triple turrets and the like) the benefit to a pirate ship is that as long as they have power they have weapons. They can't run out of ammo at a bad time. If they lose power they likely have no weapons...but it they lose power they are likely going to be dead anyway. Most railgun like weapons would require power to operate, and I'm not sold on the missile concept without power since most ships would carry their missiles interally in tubes rather than in missile boxes like some of today's warships. Also you'd probably need power to launch the things, and with no power you certainly could not control them or really aim them....and dumbfire sounds really, really like a bad idea at anything but close in ranges....certainly not at over a light second distance away.

Kyuu · 2012-02-11, 03:04

LOL. Missles connected by physical wire.

So, that would imply the complete lack of WiFi in space?

XD

Jazzrat · 2012-02-11, 07:14

Looks like the missile debate is still going on lol. Well since we havent been shown much space combat in the show yet it's hard to rule out whether missile technology is still being used.

However, looking at the proliferation of handheld beam weaponary at the start of the series, i would guess traditional balistic weapon are obsolete in Moretsu's universe.

Why would ships use missile weapons that takes up space for ammo, long travelling time while being prone to jamming? Compare to beams that travel faster, uses energy to fire (which can be used for other subsystem when not firing) and cant be jammed.

Not much purpose to missiles in my view unless there's some exception on shield/armor technology that would make missiles a better choice.

Keroko · 2012-02-11, 07:58

Also compare the power. Even handheld beam weaponry has the power to pierce starship hulls, so unless missile weaponry kept pace with that kind of power they might just have been outclassed by the beam weaponry.

Sheba · 2012-02-11, 10:01

if EVE have shown anything, there is another option to consider other than kinetic, energy and missle weaponry, this last option comes in the form of drones. But do they even exist in Moretsuverse? That is one of the questions for me.

justpassingby · 2012-02-11, 10:58

A hahahaha, that was a fun episode (A-part, and most of the later half were anime original). Just, where is my space ninja? There is supposed to be a space ninja in Marika's crews

And where's my 1:700 Odette II plamo? :P

Midonin · 2012-02-11, 12:28

Mobirates 06 - "I Want My Friends Here!"

This is the first episode since the first I found myself absorbed in to some degree. For the first part, being a pirate was presented as... incredibly mundane. Though the way the MIB casually handed over Marika's dolphin to her friend was good for a laugh or two. The second half, though, was... fun. It was more like a dinner show than piracy, with all that entails. Some humor, the sense that the people genuinely believe it even if it comes across as fake, and that the audience is enjoying the show. All the lights and theatrics that come with such a thing were present. Marika still seems to be in the Don Dogoier stage when it comes to piracy, but if she amps it up, she could be at Marvelous level before long.

If the show keeps up this atmosphere, that has a tiny hint of goofiness and a willingness to not take itself completely seriously, then things could really pick up.

LoweGear · 2012-02-11, 12:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Midonin

Marika still seems to be in the Don Dogoier stage when it comes to piracy, but if she amps it up, she could be at Marvelous level before long.

Waitaminute, you mean she isn't CAPTAIN MARVELOUS level already? What heresy

(

)

(Now all we need is fanart of Marvelous, Hibiki (Hojo, not Tachibana) and Marika in all their piratey goodness

)

Ithekro · 2012-02-11, 13:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheba

if EVE have shown anything, there is another option to consider other than kinetic, energy and missle weaponry, this last option comes in the form of drones. But do they even exist in Moretsuverse? That is one of the questions for me.

In the trailer it looks like they use drones (or prehaps fighters). It depends on if Marika is inside the small craft or still sitting inside her warship and using remotes. If the yachts are any indication, they use remotes...so remote controlled drones rather than AI controlled drones.

2012-02-10, 01:44	Link #881
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	Depends on if you want to carry ammo or not. Also if you care about what your 38-kiloton slugs will do to someone else later on. One thing to remember: Pirates (legal ones). In wartime their role (if anything like historical privateers) would be to interdict enemy shipping, cut supply lines, and if the opportunity presents itself to were the Privateer thinks they have the advantage, capture or destroy enemy warships. Most interdiction is capture shipping and/or cargo so it can be used for your side of the conflict. This include putting on a Prize Crew to get the vessel safely back to a friendly port. If the Privateer cannot afford to put on a prize crew, and cannot take on the cargo...they usually take off the prize ship's crew and destroy the ship. It is usually against practise to just destroy the ship without warning and definately without allowed the crew to abandon it first. (This is why the world disagreed with the German U-boats in the First World War....they could not operate by the old traditions since those U-boats were slow, fragile, and had no room for cargo or prisoners. They were suppose to surface, order a ship to surrender, let the crew abandon ship, and then sink it. However, lots of cargo ships could actually outrun the U-boats...the U-boats could be sunk on the surface by small cannons...one is reported to have been sunk by a truck landing on it from a ship it destroyed. Plus with convoys, you can't afford to wait for a ship to abandon ship when destroyers and sub chasers are coming. So they just sank the ships...without warning. Totally against the laws of the sea, and appauled the Americans (and British, though the British were stopping American ships that were going to Germany...they just used the old ways to do it rather than the "barbaric" ways of the German U-boat). Thus, a Space Privateer would not want to use a weapon that would outright destroy the prize ship on the first shot. Nor would they want to have to worry about ammunition (as that costs money and eats into the crew's shares of the profit). Now they might have something solid to deal with warships, or if the beam weapons can't piece hulls (whch seems unlikely in this case), than they might have missiles or bolters to "sink" ships...but only when needed. Also judging from the trailer, we will see fighters at some point...they look like they are remote controlled like the yachts were in the first episode. They seem to have energy weapons, but with just quick flashes from a trailer it is hard to tell. __________________

2012-02-10, 06:08	Link #883
MeisterBabylon ~ Your Smile ~ Author Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: 346Pro Age: 38	I see... So pirates favor energy boats for the reasons afore stated. I guess that means that ships with lots of cargo, plying dangerous routes, would prefer kinetic energy weapons because a) they don't have to worry about blowing shit up, and b) they save on mass otherwise taken up by cooling systems needed to keep the beam systems chilled. You might argue that ammo takes up the same amount of space as cooling systems, but I guess it really depends on the universe eh? looks at EVE ship equipping rules __________________ 白露型駆逐艦の４番艦、夕立です。第三次ソロモン海戦では、けっこう頑張ったっぽい★？

2012-02-10, 08:33	Link #884
Sinestra ション (^^) IT Support Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Freedom Guard Ship Amaterasu	I was pretty apprehensive about watching this series. But a few members convienced me to give it a shot. So i sat down and watched the first episode last night. Overall not looks like there could be some nice comedic gold here. I will catch up with the rest this weekend and see how i feel. But so far its got my attention more than i thought it would. __________________

2012-02-10, 15:56	Link #886
Kyuu =^^= Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: 42° 10' N (Latitude) 87° 33' W (Longitude) Age: 45	Space pirates. And weapons. We've seen the beam guns. And beam guns off ships. Well, how about the space version of the sword? Though, part of me doesn't want to see a beam sword. We've seen plenty of Jedi, who can use these sort of weapons. __________________ Japanese Mahjong Group \| Currently Watching List \| Click on this - I dare you.

2012-02-10, 16:37	Link #888
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	The boardng parties shows at the very start looked like they had some blades. Look like normal one, though they could be of the hypersonic vibrating type. If a heavy hand-held beam cannon can go through multiple tanks....you don't want to be using that inside a ship in space..or at least a ship that doesn't have massive armor or super strength materals for the bulkheads. Otherwise you are going to be sucking vaccum. So either you use a lighter beam weapon that won't generally punch though bulkheads (Babylon 5 used small plasma guns instead of bullets so they wouldn't piece the hull) or you use melee weapons (Legend of the Galactic Heroes....though that was more to do with the fact that most militaries used some form of particle that would explode if guns were used, but giant axes and combat armor would be safe...if bloody.) I imagine the beam weapons can be set low low enough that they can be used as an intimidating light show (no idea if they have a "stun setting") like Marika's mom's entrance at the very beginning of the show. But she did say that having a big gun in their form of Piracy was 90% first impression, and thus only maybe 10% comabt use. If the passangers and crew of a cargo ship are impressed (afraid for their lives) you will not have to shoot the gun to kill anyone. And yes I think the blade shaped ships from the military are "Ramming always works" type ships. Harlock uses that when he wants to impress on the enemy that he will kill them no matter what. __________________

2012-02-10, 15:46	Link #885
AbZeroNow North American Haruhiist Join Date: Oct 2010 Age: 43	I'm enjoying the discussions on what kind of weaponry the space privateers would use, and I hope I can remember to do a post on the possibility of quantum computers as part of the technology in use in this series. I just want to put these two links here so they can be found: Mouretsu Pirates Social Group (Thanks Nerroth) Light Novel Thread

2012-02-10, 22:21	Link #890
RX-78GP04G Gerbera Whoosh! Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Albany Age: 38	reply Yeah, unless you have some way of manually controlling them somehow, like wires. __________________ "I'll show you that a superior mobile suit has its limits when it goes up against a superior pilot!" - Char Aznable, The Red Comet "Come on! I don't feel like losing!" - Johnny Ridden, The Crimson Lightning "Hatred is the root of all war! That's common sense, boy!" - Anavel Gato, The Nightmare of Solomon

2012-02-10, 23:57	Link #892
Ithekro Gamilas Falls Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 46	Pretty far to have a wire. 400,000 km also would take a while to cross at anything less than 0.1 of light speed. Sure missiles today also travel long disances and take time to reach targets...but they don't have to travel 400,000 km. I wonder how much space 400,000+ km of the appropriate wire would take inside the missile? And how much fuel it would need. With EW as shown so far in the show, I'd worry about any onboard targetting system getting hacked on the way to the target...or just being scrambled and make ineffective (rendering it a dumbfire or perhaps worse...are rogue missiles that could circle back and hit a friendly ship). Yes I am aware other series use missiles from time to time quite well at those distances. Those series tend to not usually have shields or EW in them, were the missile are shot down by either spray and pray defensive fire (Space Battleship Yamato), or point defense shielding (Macross). Also the missiles tend to follow random paths to the target (Macross), or can come in the huge size variety (Space Battleship Yamato). Yamato's enemies eventually got to the point sides were using planet destroying missiles larger than battleships, or smaller random radiation of the week special missiles that could one shot kill most Earth ships and evade defensive fire due to numbers. Of course there were also Space Submarines...since Yamato was pretty much World War II and the early days of the Cold War...IN SPACE. This series has not shown that sort of thing to us yet and seems to be taking the science parts slightly more seriously that the usual Space Operas. And while a cooling system might be large (the ships so far seem to use triple turrets and the like) the benefit to a pirate ship is that as long as they have power they have weapons. They can't run out of ammo at a bad time. If they lose power they likely have no weapons...but it they lose power they are likely going to be dead anyway. Most railgun like weapons would require power to operate, and I'm not sold on the missile concept without power since most ships would carry their missiles interally in tubes rather than in missile boxes like some of today's warships. Also you'd probably need power to launch the things, and with no power you certainly could not control them or really aim them....and dumbfire sounds really, really like a bad idea at anything but close in ranges....certainly not at over a light second distance away. __________________ Last edited by Ithekro; 2012-02-11 at 00:09.

2012-02-11, 03:04	Link #893
Kyuu =^^= Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: 42° 10' N (Latitude) 87° 33' W (Longitude) Age: 45	LOL. Missles connected by physical wire. So, that would imply the complete lack of WiFi in space? XD __________________ Japanese Mahjong Group \| Currently Watching List \| Click on this - I dare you.

2012-02-11, 07:14	Link #894
Jazzrat Bearly Legal Join Date: Jun 2004	Looks like the missile debate is still going on lol. Well since we havent been shown much space combat in the show yet it's hard to rule out whether missile technology is still being used. However, looking at the proliferation of handheld beam weaponary at the start of the series, i would guess traditional balistic weapon are obsolete in Moretsu's universe. Why would ships use missile weapons that takes up space for ammo, long travelling time while being prone to jamming? Compare to beams that travel faster, uses energy to fire (which can be used for other subsystem when not firing) and cant be jammed. Not much purpose to missiles in my view unless there's some exception on shield/armor technology that would make missiles a better choice. __________________

2012-02-11, 07:58	Link #895
Keroko Adeptus Animus Author Join Date: Jan 2007 Age: 36	Also compare the power. Even handheld beam weaponry has the power to pierce starship hulls, so unless missile weaponry kept pace with that kind of power they might just have been outclassed by the beam weaponry.

2012-02-11, 10:01	Link #896
Sheba RUN, YOU FOOLS! Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Formerly Iwakawa base and Chaldea. Now Teyvat, the Astral Express & the Outpost Age: 44	if EVE have shown anything, there is another option to consider other than kinetic, energy and missle weaponry, this last option comes in the form of drones. But do they even exist in Moretsuverse? That is one of the questions for me.

2012-02-11, 10:58	Link #897
justpassingby Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Cyberjaya, Malaysia Age: 38	A hahahaha, that was a fun episode (A-part, and most of the later half were anime original). Just, where is my space ninja? There is supposed to be a space ninja in Marika's crews And where's my 1:700 Odette II plamo? :P __________________ 一生　忘れられないよ　ずっとずっと　大事な贈り物一生　忘れられないよ　きっときっと　こいつは宝物 Last edited by justpassingby; 2012-02-11 at 11:21.

2012-02-11, 12:28	Link #898
Midonin Last Engage Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Florida	Mobirates 06 - "I Want My Friends Here!" This is the first episode since the first I found myself absorbed in to some degree. For the first part, being a pirate was presented as... incredibly mundane. Though the way the MIB casually handed over Marika's dolphin to her friend was good for a laugh or two. The second half, though, was... fun. It was more like a dinner show than piracy, with all that entails. Some humor, the sense that the people genuinely believe it even if it comes across as fake, and that the audience is enjoying the show. All the lights and theatrics that come with such a thing were present. Marika still seems to be in the Don Dogoier stage when it comes to piracy, but if she amps it up, she could be at Marvelous level before long. If the show keeps up this atmosphere, that has a tiny hint of goofiness and a willingness to not take itself completely seriously, then things could really pick up.