Campione!(カンピオーネ!) [Light Novel]

[cadu_]

Some Ashia flags were raised but i think it would be much better if Lu Hao joined the harem instead of that siblings by oath thing.
Or maybe a new girl?A red haired one would be nice.
To tell the truth,I wanted Heretic Atena in the harem but she died...

[GodSoul]

Originally Posted by senjiro

I need correct one point,godou los to alec in speed coz godou is a noob with his power yet,while alec mastered his own. Godou now beggin to master his powers(camel explosion,castle beast,sword of salvation)
I dont want more authorities only master that he got, godou is the most adaptable out the 8.
True he got 10 powers so them must be more weak one by one. But in all things godou not lose vs his peers more seniors than him.
I want dates with the girls next vol.

alec avartar manifest uses black lightning, even as werewolves volban

alec also had problems controlling authority black lightning

alec has several years as campione, much more experience and knowledge in magic

the fact godou 10 in 1 have authorities,not makes it weaker or stronger than others

duels against gods and campiones are decided by luck, raw power, strategy, or stupidity (and doni example)

[dedecou]

KoET is probably Lugh.

[RpR1337]

Originally Posted by Endscape

You're exaggerating quite a bit here. Doni lost the first time because Erica helped, and the second because he was tired from being possessed.

Well, the first time, Doni lost because Erica helped, yeah, but that's kind of "team Godou's" modus operandi. Also, about the second time. "... tired from being possessed."? Since when does that matter to a Campione? He was the one who wanted to go wild, so no, sorry, can't accept that as a reason. If Doni were the one who said that, I'd scream "Sore loser!" right now.

Originally Posted by Endscape

Voban didn't lose, he simply couldn't be bothered anymore. If he had used Red Punishment at that time, Godou would died for sure.

Nah, can't accept that either. He could be bothered, but he just didn't want to take things farther. He was more or less satisfied with the result (having his boredom cured for now), so he let him "win" (more like conceding the victory). His main goal was to have a blast, and that he did.

Originally Posted by Endscape

Except she didn't. Yes, she got knocked out, but Godou was also paralysed and couldn't move. If no one else had been around, and Luo Hao had woken up first, Godou would have lost. That's why they called it a tie.

And the one who should decide that is the participants, in which case Luo Hao clearly stated that due to the difference in experience, having a tie with someone who hasn't been a Campione for a year is a clear loss for someone of 200++ years worth of experience. And that's more or less legit, if you ask me.

Originally Posted by Endscape

Again, this was a tie.

More or less, this is the one I'll accept. Though it's still obvious that Uldin had deeper knowledge (due to living in an era where Gods weren't myth, but fact), more experience (having had many battles with Gods before, and a lot more time as a Campione), and better odds (only half of "team Godou" was present, after all). But yeah, this one was kind of a tie, though, you might want to take note that Godou was alredy pushed into quite the corner when the match came to ... well, an abrupt and unexpected conclusion.

Originally Posted by Endscape

Going by canon, this is false.

No, it's not really, since if you look at what some of the incarnations were able to do in some situations (take KotE or Doni f.e. - where the Camel was able to overpower a war-oriented authority, or the Boar managed to curbstomp two other divine beasts, etc.), you can say that when grouping similarly oriented authorities (now THAT is not canon, my friend ), Verethragna's authorities usually perform better.

Originally Posted by Endscape

Verethragna was half dead at that point, so that doesn't really count.

Except it does, since if it wouldn't, Godou would not be a Campione. We all know how that goes with that adoptive mum of a cheerleader.

Well, anyways, the two issues with my conclusion which you clearly designated are:
1. Godou's not alone, he always has the girls helping him.
2. Godou has less experience, and he's often underestimated.

I won't deny these. While the two kind of balance out each other, it's still actually a matter of debate, how that influences his "win count". I myself believe that since he has virtually no knowledge about Gods, even less knowledge about magic itself, knows no martial arts, and has only a year's worth of experience, having fought all those battles, and still being alive (often emerging as the victor, albeit ambiguous), he's the clear winner. This can be attacked with a multitude of things though, and I do accept that, since it's everyone's cue how to view his performance. I believe he's different - we kind of don't have to waste time on that, we all know he is - but while being different, he also achieves awesome results when forced into the other Gods' and Campiones' ways. That's what I think.

Other than that - about what you've criticised: point taken. Doesn't change my take on it, but point taken indeed.

EDIT:

Originally Posted by GodSoul

duels against gods and campiones are decided by luck, raw power, strategy, or stupidity (and doni example)

I really wanted to kind of attack this for a while now. This is kind of what people in the novels also say, but I think a bit differently. Decided by luck? Well, maybe luck has an influence on it, but it's rather uncouth to think that the winner of a deathmatch is "lucky". I'd really exclude that notion from the novels, if it were up to me. I mean, it does make most of the awesome battles "shine a little less in comparison", I think. Raw power? Again, mostly accurate, but there are cases where things go differently. Whenever raw power is needed to calculate a result in a match, it can be countered. I don't think you can say that raw power "decides" things, if the enemy has tactics. Same for strategy - it's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. Raw power can be countered with tactics, while sufficient raw power counters strategy. As for stupidity - kind of, but that's just Doni, really. And mind you - Doni's not half the idiot some people think he is. More precisely - Doni's a shrewd bastard, not an idiot. He's kind of like a feral, rabid wolf (though since he doesn't care for anything other than fun and battles, outside of battles, he only lives for fun, hence the "fool").

What I believe is that if something can decide those battles, it's sheer tenacity. Sure enough, it doesn't really answer questions as to the methodology or the actual implementation of the assets employed to achieve victory, but most of the times, neither do the assets themselves can assure said victory - refer above. In the end, I believe that the victory in those battles goes to the most tenacious, hard-to-kill bastard. Because it's more fun that way, and even though it's such a shounen-manga development, it make-believes the battles of Campione! even more epic for me.

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by RpR1337

Well, the first time, Doni lost because Erica helped, yeah, but that's kind of "team Godou's" modus operandi.

You have a point here, but that doesn't change the fact that he would have lost alone, it's certainly nothing to get excited about.

Also, about the second time. "... tired from being possessed."? Since when does that matter to a Campione? He was the one who wanted to go wild, so no, sorry, can't accept that as a reason. If Doni were the one who said that, I'd scream "Sore loser!" right now.

Doni did say that actually. I'm not saying that it negates Godou's victory or anything, but again, it's nothing to get too excited about either.

Nah, can't accept that either. He could be bothered, but he just didn't want to take things farther. He was more or less satisfied with the result (having his boredom cured for now), so he let him "win" (more like conceding the victory). His main goal was to have a blast, and that he did.

Someone just giving up midway because they've had enough fun isn't something I'd call a great victory.

And the one who should decide that is the participants, in which case Luo Hao clearly stated that due to the difference in experience, having a tie with someone who hasn't been a Campione for a year is a clear loss for someone of 200++ years worth of experience. And that's more or less legit, if you ask me.

She did that out of sheer pride, which is her trademark. Objectively speaking, it was a tie.

No, it's not really, since if you look at what some of the incarnations were able to do in some situations (take KotE or Doni f.e. - where the Camel was able to overpower a war-oriented authority, or the Boar managed to curbstomp two other divine beasts, etc.), you can say that when grouping similarly oriented authorities (now THAT is not canon, my friend ), Verethragna's authorities usually perform better.

Recall the fight with Uldin. Godou clearly stated that the White Stallion loses to Rudra's authority in sheer power, since it's just 1 of 10.

Except it does, since if it wouldn't, Godou would not be a Campione. We all know how that goes with that adoptive mum of a cheerleader.

That rule only applies to Campiones, not humans. It's a fact that Verethragna was half dead when he fought with Godou that last time.

[Fwarlord]

Originally Posted by RpR1337

I won't deny these. While the two kind of balance out each other, it's still actually a matter of debate, how that influences his "win count". I myself believe that since he has virtually no knowledge about Gods, even less knowledge about magic itself, knows no martial arts, and has only a year's worth of experience, having fought all those battles, and still being alive (often emerging as the victor, albeit ambiguous), he's the clear winner. This can be attacked with a multitude of things though, and I do accept that, since it's everyone's cue how to view his performance. I believe he's different - we kind of don't have to waste time on that, we all know he is - but while being different, he also achieves awesome results when forced into the other Gods' and Campiones' ways. That's what I think.

Knowledge, martial arts and experience? Going by this series' logic, those things only matter to mortals, campiones give no care about them. Just like Pandora said, they know how to fight since birth (when they became campiones), so it's safe to assume they must be treated equally, be it a new born campione or a hundred year old one. Other campiones and gods fully understand this, so they treated Godou - a new born campione - as an equal, only the ignorant mage in volume 3 think otherwise and we know what happened to him. So just because Godou has less knowledge and experience, you can't say he is more awesome than others when they fight.

[senjiro]

So going with the flow.... not matter if one campione is noob or not? Maybe vs few lowly gods,
Know how to fight,and make fully use of your own authority is not the same.
Yes they can fight mor or less in the same frame,but if you know your authority you can grasp better the fight,so yes, it is important. Godou fights are that, struggle,relying in his waifus and that... i prefer godou stile over doni or alec, aishia is just too adorable clumsy,and luo cao too tsundere...

[GodSoul]

Originally Posted by RpR1337

I really wanted to kind of attack this for a while now. This is kind of what people in the novels also say, but I think a bit differently. Decided by luck? Well, maybe luck has an influence on it, but it's rather uncouth to think that the winner of a deathmatch is "lucky". I'd really exclude that notion from the novels, if it were up to me. I mean, it does make most of the awesome battles "shine a little less in comparison", I think. Raw power? Again, mostly accurate, but there are cases where things go differently. Whenever raw power is needed to calculate a result in a match, it can be countered. I don't think you can say that raw power "decides" things, if the enemy has tactics. Same for strategy - it's a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. Raw power can be countered with tactics, while sufficient raw power counters strategy. As for stupidity - kind of, but that's just Doni, really. And mind you - Doni's not half the idiot some people think he is. More precisely - Doni's a shrewd bastard, not an idiot. He's kind of like a feral, rabid wolf (though since he doesn't care for anything other than fun and battles, outside of battles, he only lives for fun, hence the "fool").

What I believe is that if something can decide those battles, it's sheer tenacity. Sure enough, it doesn't really answer questions as to the methodology or the actual implementation of the assets employed to achieve victory, but most of the times, neither do the assets themselves can assure said victory - refer above. In the end, I believe that the victory in those battles goes to the most tenacious, hard-to-kill bastard. Because it's more fun that way, and even though it's such a shounen-manga development, it make-believes the battles of Campione! even more epic for me.

Prometheus' Grimoire , and a tool used by gods,human use that go burn to death,lightning in the head and live,something that few people in the world have survived,join this all injuries caused by kicks verethragna=certain death.

if it was not pure luck to win against Verethragna,what logical explanation that remains?

I know not by Luo Hao lot of importance to strategy, your style and smashing fist + but magic.

brute force

sword of nowhere,a skill of fencing that can only be achieved with a completely empty mind, a blow that comes from God knows where.

in today's world this would be known as stupidity.

[RpR1337]

Originally Posted by Endscape

You have a point here, but that doesn't change the fact that he would have lost alone, it's certainly nothing to get excited about.

Doni did say that actually. I'm not saying that it negates Godou's victory or anything, but again, it's nothing to get too excited about either.

Someone just giving up midway because they've had enough fun isn't something I'd call a great victory.

She did that out of sheer pride, which is her trademark. Objectively speaking, it was a tie.

Recall the fight with Uldin. Godou clearly stated that the White Stallion loses to Rudra's authority in sheer power, since it's just 1 of 10.

That rule only applies to Campiones, not humans. It's a fact that Verethragna was half dead when he fought with Godou that last time.

Well, more-or-less an adequate argument. Won't deny that.
Since we don't know how things will go from here (not yet, anyways), I can't really say anything about how we "should" view Godou as of now. I know how I view him (which is why I always said that 'that's my take on it', or 'at least that's what I think' etc. when expressing my opinion), and that's just me. But, why not, just to keep the ball rolling:
-Yup, he would've lost alone. But he wasn't alone. Actually, that's kind of what happens with history, you know ... Hitler might've won WW2, if he didn't attack the russians. But he did. That's why they say there's no 'if' in history.
-Sure, it's nothing to get excited about. I'm not excited in the least. It wasn't an epic battle, nor was it a win worth remembering. But, a win is still a win.
-Yup, not a great win at all. Kind of lame, actually. But, a win is still a win.
-Objectively speaking, it was a ridiculous fight with no motive or killing urge. It was a 'fun bout' at best, so I also think that she should've discarded her pride, and call it a win for herself, since she was the one to get back on her feet first, or at least stay with the "that one's a tie" (courtesy of Yinghua), but that's how she interpreted it. Be it for pride or martial courtesy, she does have a point.
-What I was trying to say is something like this: even if it does lose, they did cancel each other out. Whatever Godou says, his 1/10 authority has at least the strenght to negate a 1/1 authority. And though it does, while Uldin has maybe 3 (?) of them, he still has 10+, in essence.
-True enough. I'll yield that one without further complaints.

Originally Posted by Fwarlord

Going by this series' logic, those things only matter to mortals, campiones give no care about them. Just like Pandora said, they know how to fight since birth (when they became campiones), so it's safe to assume they must be treated equally, be it a new born campione or a hundred year old one.

On the contrary, you're mixing different things up a bit in this case. They don't only matter to mortals. Luo Hao is one example (CQC martial arts), Doni another (swordsmanship), etc.etc. Voban also mentioned things on difference in experience during their fight with Godou, while Luo Hao also stressed how a difference in experience made a difference in the match itself.
What Pandora said stands true, but not for the actual fight. What humans who are destined to be reborn into Campione have is not techniques or skills (which are the actual manifestations of a combatant during battle), but ferocity and cunning. They do know the basics of combat (like flow, maneuvers, tactics), but they don't actually know how to implement them to change the tides of battle, unless they actually 'do' something - which can be either authorities, martial arts, or magic. If you didn't know any of these prior to becoming a Campione, your only option that remains is the authority, since you have that from the get-go, once you are reborn. Which is what currently happens to Godou, who prior to being resurrected, really wasn't any threat in a fistfight, since he was a tactician (as expressed in short stories). That's what it means that they know "how to fight" - unable to raise your fist (in Godou's case), but knowing when to do it, and what to do after.

Originally Posted by GodSoul

Prometheus' Grimoire , and a tool used by gods,human use that go burn to death,lightning in the head and live,something that few people in the world have survived,join this all injuries caused by kicks verethragna=certain death.
if it was not pure luck to win against Verethragna,what logical explanation that remains?
I know not by Luo Hao lot of importance to strategy, your style and smashing fist + but magic.
brute force
sword of nowhere,a skill of fencing that can only be achieved with a completely empty mind, a blow that comes from God knows where.
in today's world this would be known as stupidity.

I don't fully understand, to be perfectly honest. Sorry, I kind of grasp what you're trying to say, though it's far from perfect, but I think I got your point.

In one word: over-exaggerated. Just as an example: Sword of emptiness, stupidity? Well, it's similar to enlightenment (since that's the state of perfect confidence, total environment control, and a clear and astute mind). Are you, sir, suggesting that enlightenment is stupidity? Quite an exaggerated notion, to say the least.

[GodSoul]

Originally Posted by RpR1337

I don't fully understand, to be perfectly honest. Sorry, I kind of grasp what you're trying to say, though it's far from perfect, but I think I got your point.

In one word: over-exaggerated. Just as an example: Sword of emptiness, stupidity? Well, it's similar to enlightenment (since that's the state of perfect confidence, total environment control, and a clear and astute mind). Are you, sir, suggesting that enlightenment is stupidity? Quite an exaggerated notion, to say the least.

what is stupid and what and enlightened?Who decide that?the answer and society.

society that decides whether right or wrong and kill, steal,the use of drugs and also right or wrong and society.

Doni was already regarded as the Idiot, and his ability with the sword as something stupid,in our society, the judgment about Doni being stupid or enlightened would be the same as in the society campione,if you say it and enlightened,when the world says he and Idota, you're just giving your opinion of an idiot.

[RpR1337]

Originally Posted by GodSoul

what is stupid and what and enlightened?Who decide that?the answer and society.

society that decides whether right or wrong and kill, steal,the use of drugs and also right or wrong and society.

Doni was already regarded as the Idiot, and his ability with the sword as something stupid,in our society, the judgment about Doni being stupid or enlightened would be the same as in the society campione,if you say it and enlightened,when the world says he and Idota, you're just giving your opinion of an idiot.

Again, a bit of an over-exaggeration, but I'll let it go. Though, I'll still correct you on one point:
I never said Doni's not an idiot. What I said is that the Sword of Emptiness is not idiocy, but the self-polished skill of a heretical genius (as stated in the novels). Even if he's an idiot, his swordmanship is not idiocy. And that way, you can't regard "idiocy" as the thing that gets him wins.

Also, one thing on "society" - I hate that, just so you know. Society is like a dinner table for 25 where 23 people have to fart, but no one does it, fearful of what the others would think, which means we have 2 people enjoying the dinner, and 23 people being idiots, when in fact they could have fun as well. And that's how one of "society's" basic rules, the "majority rule" is busted via stupidity.

EDIT: one more thing. You might not be fully adept at english (if you are, just uncomfortable with writing, do excuse me), so I'll just say it. Also, if it's obvious, don't think I'm making fun of you - I'm not.
"can only be achieved with a completely empty mind, a blow that comes from God knows where"

Again, if you knew, I'm not trying to provoke you. Maybe it's something you've overlooked due to less-than-adequate language proficiency, I have no ill intentions.

"Empty mind" =/= "Empty head". Empty mind means clear focus without hindrances. Empty head ... well, in Campione! terms, means Doni.
Empty head = Doni. Empty mind = Sword of Nothingness.

P.S.: I'm really, really, really not making fun of you here.

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by GodSoul

what is stupid and what and enlightened?Who decide that?the answer and society.

society that decides whether right or wrong and kill, steal,the use of drugs and also right or wrong and society.

Doni was already regarded as the Idiot, and his ability with the sword as something stupid,in our society, the judgment about Doni being stupid or enlightened would be the same as in the society campione,

Even if people in Campione!verse think of Doni as an idiot, they also give the highest possible praise and respect to his swordsmanship, separate and apart from the respect he gets as a Campione.

Even in RL Doni's skills would be highly respected, especially the swords skills of nothingness, which is actually the same thing as mushin.

[Astraeia]

Doesn't volume 8 explicitly mention "mushin" regarding his style? I remember something along those lines.


And while Doni is recognized by everyone as an idiot, Pandora herself says he might be closest to the enlightenment needed to keep the memories about her. Which he goes on to prove. And ignore, easygoing as he is.

[GodSoul]

Originally Posted by RpR1337

Again, a bit of an over-exaggeration, but I'll let it go. Though, I'll still correct you on one point:
I never said Doni's not an idiot. What I said is that the Sword of Emptiness is not idiocy, but the self-polished skill of a heretical genius (as stated in the novels). Even if he's an idiot, his swordmanship is not idiocy. And that way, you can't regard "idiocy" as the thing that gets him wins.

Also, one thing on "society" - I hate that, just so you know. Society is like a dinner table for 25 where 23 people have to fart, but no one does it, fearful of what the others would think, which means we have 2 people enjoying the dinner, and 23 people being idiots, when in fact they could have fun as well. And that's how one of "society's" basic rules, the "majority rule" is busted via stupidity.

EDIT: one more thing. You might not be fully adept at english (if you are, just uncomfortable with writing, do excuse me), so I'll just say it. Also, if it's obvious, don't think I'm making fun of you - I'm not.
"can only be achieved with a completely empty mind, a blow that comes from God knows where"

Again, if you knew, I'm not trying to provoke you. Maybe it's something you've overlooked due to less-than-adequate language proficiency, I have no ill intentions.

"Empty mind" =/= "Empty head". Empty mind means clear focus without hindrances. Empty head ... well, in Campione! terms, means Doni.
Empty head = Doni. Empty mind = Sword of Nothingness.

P.S.: I'm really, really, really not making fun of you here.

yeah, I do NOT speak English.

I agree with what you said about the society,kkk I found this hilarious your example.

yes I have to admit being wrong about abilities doni with sword,however, as a normal person, I would rather trust my ability with sword (so if I was a fencer)than something like lighting that does not even have a logic.

one more thing in relation to Doni, he and an idiot,his reason for being stupid and just ignore others and do everything without thinking about the good or evil that will cause other.

Godou and very like it at this point,even though he is always apologizing for what he did (usually destroying buildings and causing losses),fast he forgets everything that does harm to others, but as is always apologizing and showing some concern for others and he is not seen as a stupid,only one sexual predator.

although doni do something for others, like the time he fought Artio, he clearly did it just by dueling with the goddess,really had preoccupation with the Franks he would not have helped artio.

ps: I'll try to improve my translation into not cause misunderstandings

[RpR1337]

Originally Posted by GodSoul

yeah, I do NOT speak English.

I agree with what you said about the society,kkk I found this hilarious your example.

yes I have to admit being wrong about abilities doni with sword,however, as a normal person, I would rather trust my ability with sword (so if I was a fencer)than something like lighting that does not even have a logic.

one more thing in relation to Doni, he and an idiot,his reason for being stupid and just ignore others and do everything without thinking about the good or evil that will cause other.

Godou and very like it at this point,even though he is always apologizing for what he did (usually destroying buildings and causing losses),fast he forgets everything that does harm to others, but as is always apologizing and showing some concern for others and he is not seen as a stupid,only one sexual predator.

although doni do something for others, like the time he fought Artio, he clearly did it just by dueling with the goddess,really had preoccupation with the Franks he would not have helped artio.

ps: I'll try to improve my translation into not cause misunderstandings

Nahnahnah, it's fine, if I read it 2 times, I get it, it's no prob.

The main difference between Godou and Doni (however I'd like to say that they're not cut from the same cloth), is that Doni only cares about himself. Godou is much more selfless compared to him. That's the gist of it.

Doni fights battles for himself (something like if boredom is the initiative for Voban, then searching for excitement is for Doni), while Godou's initiative is never himself. No more difference, in essence. The way they fight might be different, but that's understandable. The thoughts they have during a battle may also differ (or perhaps, you might find they don't, and if you do, don't be suprised), but other than the starting line, I think everything is the same about them.

[Endscape]

Originally Posted by RpR1337

The main difference between Godou and Doni (however I'd like to say that they're not cut from the same cloth), is that Doni only cares about himself. Godou is much more selfless compared to him. That's the gist of it.

Eh, that's an overly harsh analysis. Doni is definitely selfish, but he does care about other people. He wouldn't have helped Erica and Liliana, or even the Franks if he wasn't.

[Ickarium]

I think the main difference is Godou is actively compassionate and responsible. He destroys things simply because one, he's fighting gods and destruction happens and two, his bigger powers tend towards the destruction. (And three, the author finds it funny). But if bad things would stop happening, he would happily live his life, more or less.

Doni is passively compassionate. He cares about people he sees, but out of sight, out of mind. He actively was willing to help the Goddess fight Godou for instance, regardless of the damage she could cause because as far as he was concerned, it was about he and Godou. The other people weren't there, so. He doesn't think of it. Basically if he is right there and sees something bad happen, he might fix it. But he doesn't really care otherwise, and will actually cause bad things to happen because he lives in the moment (see the whole debacle with Perseus). Doni is selfish and kind of amoral, but does have a heart.

[GodSoul]

Originally Posted by Ickarium

I think the main difference is Godou is actively compassionate and responsible. He destroys things simply because one, he's fighting gods and destruction happens and two, his bigger powers tend towards the destruction. (And three, the author finds it funny). But if bad things would stop happening, he would happily live his life, more or less.

Doni is passively compassionate. He cares about people he sees, but out of sight, out of mind. He actively was willing to help the Goddess fight Godou for instance, regardless of the damage she could cause because as far as he was concerned, it was about he and Godou. The other people weren't there, so. He doesn't think of it. Basically if he is right there and sees something bad happen, he might fix it. But he doesn't really care otherwise, and will actually cause bad things to happen because he lives in the moment (see the whole debacle with Perseus). Doni is selfish and kind of amoral, but does have a heart.

I agree in part so far, but do not think he would have cared if the Franks being there or not,when he wanted to have his duel with godou,Ordinarios wizards send him against godou (ok, he no and volban),but this qualifies send someone to death,human life does not seem to have any value for him,the godou, he has his good sense, but when he on lancelot effect curse he was so selfish as doni.Let's not forget that he ignore your common sense during battles,and the fact that nobody has been killed during their battles and pure luck+ mobilization of the population (actually writer follows the style of fairy tail, do not kill anyone).

Endscape talked about him helping Erica and Liliana the time are sought Rafaelo they follow him, they have helped him,about the grimorio davi, he do for godou,he only remembered the name of Erica when she becomes amate self declared godou.

I think doni funny,but if I were godou,would be the best time lurking waiting to kill him.

[RpR1337]

Originally Posted by Endscape

Eh, that's an overly harsh analysis. Doni is definitely selfish, but he does care about other people. He wouldn't have helped Erica and Liliana, or even the Franks if he wasn't.

Well yeah, as the spokesmen above said:

-Cared about Erica because of Godou.
-Cared about Lilianna, because of Godou, and the 'third' time they met, because of his "duty" (meaning Andrea's nagging).
P.S.: on that note, during the Perseus incident, did he care about her at all? (Or about anyone at that?)
-Cared about the Franks because it was more fun that way. Hence, cared about himself.

Originally Posted by Ickarium

Doni is selfish and kind of amoral, but does have a heart.

On that note, my friend, nobody said Doni doesn't have a heart. The problem is that he doesn't seem to have a brain. -.-"

~~~

Well, let's just put that aside for now, and go back to Godou. The way I see it, Godou's actually fine as he is. Though, the whole collateral damage really doesn't play a big role in my excitement for the series, or, to be perfectly precise, I want him to destroy as many things as possible (to give the girls more verbal ammo, preferrably the dum-dum round variant which makes one bleed and slowly die, and to kill me with hilarious conversations and ludicrous scenes), so I don't find that an "error in the math". Man, there're supernatural powers of the highest level clashing, it's like having a Fujita 5 tornado and a Richter 9 earthquake pitted against each other, and then expecting an old man go out and cut the grass on his yard an hour later, since that's his greatest worry at the time. True enough, real heroes are heroes because they save the world before the world itself even knew it was in danger to begin with, but Campione aren't heroes. They're devil kings, that's said many, many times over, clearly and soundly. And I rather like that.

To be honest, as far as personalities go, I like Doni more. And that's because of nothing but honesty. Sure, I know Godou has trauma because of his female relatives technically ripping his mind apart with their conscious and constant nagging (which is a bit too brutal, even for the standard romcom - refer to my signature - development cycle), but he's almost 18. It's really time he got over that crap.
(In his defense, he seems to be slowly breaking the barriers, so I'll cut him some slack. Also, the most notable difference between him and his grandfather is that he's not playing with women - not that the ones around him would allow him playing more than comfortable - but actually really loving them, albeit more than one, even if he himself doesn't realise it.)

[bludvein]

Originally Posted by dedecou

KoET is probably Lugh.

Bit late, but what makes you think Lugh? That goes against practically every hint we have gotten so far.