Muv-Luv Franchise - Game & General Discussion

[ServantOfPriss]

Originally Posted by grevierr

The German screaming in panic sounded like a recording from WW2 lol. We need a Hitler rage vid made of this when the time comes.

Oh believe me, I thought the same thing. Clip is lock and loaded if Schwarz really becomes a VN and/or anime.

[Mazryonh]

Originally Posted by grevierr

You better believe it. It was a glorious 10 secs preview. It had German dubbing.

The image doesn't give much information; is Carnelian still illustrating the VN? What kind of rating will it have? Will the heroines have their own routes this time or not?

Originally Posted by ServantOfPriss

If I hadn't been busy at the time of the stream, I would've watched it. Engrish is hilarious...but Doitshi must be even more hilarious.

You can say that again. I'm very skeptical of how "period-accurate" the German dubbing will be. It's hard enough at times to get English to translate accurately to German (and English is a Germanic language!), especially when it comes to German of a different era. Will they have period-accurate East German accents? Will they use the right vocabulary and grammar? Will they hire native German speakers through outsourcing agencies to do so? I hope they still use Japanese seiyuus for the significant character parts though.

Mind you, it can be done; the best-selling VN's White Album 2's CODA arc takes place in Strasbourg, Germany, and as the video below shows, the development team clearly did their research when it came to backgrounds they drew for the city:

Kazusa Touma, one of the heroines in that VN, is supposed to have lived there for 5 years already, and her seiyuu Hitomi Nabatame actually does speak lines in German and French. Because I'm not familiar with those languages, however, I couldn't honestly say just how good of a job she actually did.

[wavehawk]

Originally Posted by calubin_175

TSFiA #77: Turns out in 1993, the two YF-23 Black Widow prototypes were secretly deployed on the European front.

- Followed by the YF-23 kit modeled as Spider and Grey Ghost variants. Unfortunately I don't own a scanner andhave no access to one.

Originally Posted by Chibiloli

next anime is Haiburu(Cute BETA girls doing Cute BETA girl things and Terrorizing Marimo-chan)

-...SOLD!

[Wild Goose]

German dubbing... Reminds me how for Meyal Gear Solid 3, Akio Ohtduka and Hideo Kojima got the idea to dub it in Russian. japanese!Snake eagerly rush off to Russian classes.

The rest of the cast threatened a revolt if Kojima and Ohtsuka didn't see reason.

[Alastor Mobius Toth]

It would be hard to make Schwarz non-adult novel, given the themes of the story. And well, Stasi being Stasi.

Doesn't mean they won't try.

Doubt that heroines will have their own routes, given that only two Muv-Luv VNs ever had multiple routes. (versus Alternative, Chronicles, Adoration, Total Eclipse, etc.)

As for the German...no, please no. While it's a nice touch, I do not trust age to accurately do any language but the Japanese; I don't speak German well, but the German phrases used in some of the Schwarz segments in Cross-Operation did not sound correct. Especially those on posters. But it might be me just being bad in German *shrug*

Incidentally, English is no longer as Germanic as it started. Might have to do with every third word being taken from French.

I'm more concerned for Sylwia though. If they do her as a faux-Russian type, I will rage. Hard.

[Fireminer]

No non-aldult! That mean I CAN'T PLAY IT! DAMN YOU, AGE!

[calubin_175]

I bet the German dubbed portion will just be the intro sequence akin to the Bravo Reader part at the beginning of Alternative.

[Frontier]

Originally Posted by Alastor Mobius Toth

It would be hard to make Schwarz non-adult novel, given the themes of the story. And well, Stasi being Stasi.

Doesn't mean they won't try.

Doubt that heroines will have their own routes, given that only two Muv-Luv VNs ever had multiple routes. (versus Alternative, Chronicles, Adoration, Total Eclipse, etc.)

As for the German...no, please no. While it's a nice touch, I do not trust age to accurately do any language but the Japanese; I don't speak German well, but the German phrases used in some of the Schwarz segments in Cross-Operation did not sound correct. Especially those on posters. But it might be me just being bad in German *shrug*

Incidentally, English is no longer as Germanic as it started. Might have to do with every third word being taken from French.

I'm more concerned for Sylwia though. If they do her as a faux-Russian type, I will rage. Hard.

Well, wasn't Total Eclipse intended to have multiple heroine routes but Age just couldn't implement it because of how rushed the game was?

Not that I'm expecting a higher quality product from them after Total Eclipse. Though isn't the situation with Schwarzesmarken similar to Total Eclipse, in that it's a VN telling the story of an unfinished novel series?

[Alastor Mobius Toth]

I wouldn't remember the promises they made before the launch.

I do think that Total Eclipse VN was supposed to conclude Total Eclipse side-story (as in, provide the arc after Yui being shot), and they basically write the rest of the LNs after it, hence why they were slated to be continued after TE's VN was released. We all know how that ended.

Schwarz is supposedly finished, or close to it, according to some of the things its author is saying. That said, Schwarz wouldn't be an easy game to make into a "multiple route" kind of game, at least in the romantic genre, since it's just not this kind of setting, and Theodore doesn't appear to be the type interested in romantic relationship.

...But the initial concept for Schwarz was for it to be a light romantic comedy. It wouldn't be beyond age to make a fandisk out of that idea, with all the romance stuffed into it.
They will never do it tough, because age and common sense doesn't rhyme well.

[Fireminer]

Fixed: Age and common sense NEVER go well with each other.

Guess that we would have another bloody edition for this!

[Mazryonh]

Originally Posted by Wild Goose

German dubbing... Reminds me how for Meyal Gear Solid 3, Akio Ohtduka and Hideo Kojima got the idea to dub it in Russian. japanese!Snake eagerly rush off to Russian classes.

Yes, some Japanese directors really go all out with language-to-locale accuracy. The infamous Mamoru Oshii (the genius behind the first Ghost in the Shell movie) once made a film called Avalon in 2001, shot entirely in Poland with native Polish actors, with all the dialogue in the Polish language.

Originally Posted by Wild Goose

The rest of the cast threatened a revolt if Kojima and Ohtsuka didn't see reason.

Since I'm a fan of games like STALKER and the Metro 2033 series, and like playing those games in their native Russian, I would have been perfectly happy with minor characters (such as guards and the HQ radio voice) being voiced in Russian. But apparently not enough people saw it that way. I would also have liked to have heard the enemies in Metal Gear Solid 4 speak languages appropriate to their locales too.

Originally Posted by Alastor Mobius Toth

Incidentally, English is no longer as Germanic as it started. Might have to do with every third word being taken from French.

Yep, it might have something to do with the fact that the English and French have been warring for centuries in the past (while the English in those days didn't have as much contact with Germany), to the point that some famous English Kings were not even Anglophones.

Originally Posted by Alastor Mobius Toth

It would be hard to make Schwarz non-adult novel, given the themes of the story. And well, Stasi being Stasi. Doesn't mean they won't try.

Why shouldn't it be adult-rated? Anyone who has seen the Ch. 18 or Ch. 22 summaries of the LN on the Schwarzesmarken website almost certainly has wondered what might have happened had those situations just gone a little differently.

Originally Posted by Alastor Mobius Toth

Doubt that heroines will have their own routes, given that only two Muv-Luv VNs ever had multiple routes. (versus Alternative, Chronicles, Adoration, Total Eclipse, etc.)

I'm sure a lot of VN gamers were very disappointed in the TE VN's lack of ability to change the course of the story. I'm of the opinion that if the Schwarzesmarken VN is just a kinetic novel, the fanbase's trust in Age will decrease further.

Originally Posted by Alastor Mobius Toth

As for the German...no, please no. While it's a nice touch, I do not trust age to accurately do any language but the Japanese; I don't speak German well, but the German phrases used in some of the Schwarz segments in Cross-Operation did not sound correct. Especially those on posters. But it might be me just being bad in German *shrug*

Here, have a listen to what Leaf did with White Album 2, where one of the main heroines, Kazusa Touma, has lived in Vienna, Austria for 5 years and supposedly has learned French and German, which you can hear Hitomi Nabatame (Kazusa Touma's seiyuu) and a couple of unnamed characters speak in the following video. The non-Japanese speech starts around 2:16. I am not responsible for any spoilers in this video, since I don't know Japanese. Is the German/French any good?

Originally Posted by Alastor Mobius Toth

I'm more concerned for Sylwia though. If they do her as a faux-Russian type, I will rage. Hard.

Would you happen to be Polish, like Sylwia?

Originally Posted by Alastor Mobius Toth

Schwarz is supposedly finished, or close to it, according to some of the things its author is saying. That said, Schwarz wouldn't be an easy game to make into a "multiple route" kind of game, at least in the romantic genre, since it's just not this kind of setting, and Theodore doesn't appear to be the type interested in romantic relationship.

All a branching-routes-version would require is the right kind of writing to incorporate decision points and the routes that result from them.

Originally Posted by Alastor Mobius Toth

...But the initial concept for Schwarz was for it to be a light romantic comedy. It wouldn't be beyond age to make a fandisk out of that idea, with all the romance stuffed into it.
They will never do it tough, because age and common sense doesn't rhyme well.

They better brush up on their common sense soon, otherwise they'll lose their fans (AKA their paying customers).

[Wild Goose]

Originally Posted by Mazryonh

Since I'm a fan of games like STALKER and the Metro 2033 series, and like playing those games in their native Russian, I would have been perfectly happy with minor characters (such as guards and the HQ radio voice) being voiced in Russian. But apparently not enough people saw it that way. I would also have liked to have heard the enemies in Metal Gear Solid 4 speak languages appropriate to their locales too.

Exactly. It's a little bit of extra flavor. Binary Domain had a mixed language track; the protagonists and people speaking with them spoke English, since they were an international team, while local Japanese characters speaking to each other spoke Japanese.

Yep, it might have something to do with the fact that the English and French have been warring for centuries in the past (while the English in those days didn't have as much contact with Germany), to the point that some famous English Kings were not even Anglophones.

tl;dr summation, England and France are tsundere for each other.

All a branching-routes-version would require is the right kind of writing to incorporate decision points and the routes that result from them.

They better brush up on their common sense soon, otherwise they'll lose their fans (AKA their paying customers).

I'm not very hopeful about that. I think Kouki would have really benefited from a BETA reader willing to point out, respectfully, "Mate, this isn't going to work, change it." Problem, however, is that Kouki is the boss, and corporate Japanese culture is to Never Contradict The Boss.

[Mazryonh]

Originally Posted by Wild Goose

Exactly. It's a little bit of extra flavor. Binary Domain had a mixed language track; the protagonists and people speaking with them spoke English, since they were an international team, while local Japanese characters speaking to each other spoke Japanese.

My favourite quote from a Japanese character in that game is "Look around you, Yankee Man! No future!" and then he points to the environmentally devastated coastline of Japan while he and a gang of kids continue to sort through scrap for parts they can sell. I'm sure a lot of Japanese share that sentiment when it comes to finding gainful employment and starting a loving family in Japan's "never-ending lost decade."

Originally Posted by Wild Goose

tl;dr summation, England and France are tsundere for each other.

They were "tsun-tsun" for far longer than they've been "dere-dere."

Originally Posted by Wild Goose

I'm not very hopeful about that. I think Kouki would have really benefited from a BETA reader willing to point out, respectfully, "Mate, this isn't going to work, change it." Problem, however, is that Kouki is the boss, and corporate Japanese culture is to Never Contradict The Boss.

This kind of "groupthink" is, according to what I've read, part of the problem that brought about the Fukushima disaster, and Japanese media failures such as the box-office flop Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within movie. Putting too much faith in the higher-ups has caused them to ignore real problems, and it seems that this meme is so entrenched in Japanese culture it may take more than the Fukushima disaster to expunge.

Yes, Kouki needs a BETA . . . reader.

[wavehawk]

Originally Posted by Mazryonh

Yes, Kouki needs a BETA

- (Thinks about it... Yeah. CHOMP.

[Alastor Mobius Toth]

@Mazryonh

They might make it all ages simply because they may want a wider audience. Non-adult doesn't just imply no sex, but also no gore/rape/torture, which is what was done do all-ages release to Alternative.

Of course, if they'd really want to make money, they would do a PC release, with an adult and non-adult versions (PS3 I can understand, but 360? That's as niche as you can be in Japan). But again, Kouki.

>Routes

It will depend on what they will want that VN to be. If it's basically a VN format to LN, it will be kinetic, because Schwarz is not written with romance in mind. There may be some hints (Katia acts gushy around Theodore, Kirche is interested, etc.) but it never seems to amount to anything. You'd also have to do somersaults in order to adopt some of the characters (like Sylwia or Annette) and their potential routes to overarching plot. Not that it's not possible - everything can be done if you have time, idea and no idiotic oversight, but they may not have the time or resources.

I wouldn't buy Schwarz VN for routes anyway. I would buy its fandisk for romantic comedy, but that's just me.

Personally, I think a lot of disappointment in TE VN, had less to do with overall lack of routes, but more with the fact that romantic triangle was both poorly resolved (no, like I said, I'm not upset that Yui is Yuuya's sister in canon...but it was done in a shitty manner, and ultimately never amounts to any meaningful drama other than Yui moping some and then getting over it), and general bullshit that latter half of VN was.

>Languages

But Leaf is not Age. Age has consistently proved itself to be unable to properly do one of the most easy languages out there. Seriously, their English is worse than a translator on crack. I don't believe that they could reliably do German, or even Russian. Some of the translation notes on Schwarz LN remark that some of the "German" terms don't really make a lot of sense in actual German, so I wouldn't get my hopes up.

Plus, even if they could do proper German, that still leaves the problem of actually assembling the cast that can properly speak it. Case in point, the girl in White Album vid you posted speaks a fairly legit Franch, but only grammatically-wise. Her delivery is very poor. It's not even the question of accent; she's reading out a script in French, and somewhat struggling with it. It certainly doesn't convey a feeling of someone who spoke French for 5+ years, or was learning it. If say, she was just learning it, or was casually spending time in French environment, yeah, that would passable.

My point is, that a Japanese cast speaking German would have to be composed of people who fluently speak the language - and preferably, you'd hire Germans themselves. Otherwise, you will have a bunch of people struggling with German script, and that will seriously affect the immersion factor.

>Are you Polish

Yeah. And just like Sylwia, I don't live there anymore.

For added hilarity - the town the BETA wreck in Sylwia's backstory - I was born there. So I suppose, my Mabu-Rabu is strong.

@Goose
In my humble opinion, Kouki might have gotten a bit power-high from the success of Alternative. That's the feel I got when I saw Total Eclipse VN: It tried too hard to be Alternative, and failed miserably.

[LunarChain]

Originally Posted by Alastor Mobius Toth

Schwarz is supposedly finished, or close to it, according to some of the things its author is saying. That said, Schwarz wouldn't be an easy game to make into a "multiple route" kind of game, at least in the romantic genre, since it's just not this kind of setting, and Theodore doesn't appear to be the type interested in romantic relationship.

why do you think that schwarz is gonna end soon or already has ended? Can you mention what the author said?

[Alastor Mobius Toth]

The story has pretty much reached the decisive point; and with the latest chapter it's pretty obvious they're headed towards finale.

Spoiler for Schwarz spoilers:

Since NVA Army is attempting a coup, 666th are declared traitors, Irisdina is arrested by Stasi, and Theofore refuses to cooperate with them, and runs away with Katia, and promises to come back and rescue Irisdina.

From what I remember, someone posted or quoted a fragment of interview someone did with Schwarz author. I don't remember the exact post, but the author said that fate of major characters "was sealed", but he was still undecided on what to do with some side-characters.

[LunarChain]

Originally Posted by Alastor Mobius Toth

The story has pretty much reached the decisive point; and with the latest chapter it's pretty obvious they're headed towards finale.

Spoiler for Schwarz spoilers:

Since NVA Army is attempting a coup, 666th are declared traitors, Irisdina is arrested by Stasi, and Theofore refuses to cooperate with them, and runs away with Katia, and promises to come back and rescue Irisdina.

From what I remember, someone posted or quoted a fragment of interview someone did with Schwarz author. I don't remember the exact post, but the author said that fate of major characters "was sealed", but he was still undecided on what to do with some side-characters.

Do you think that

Spoiler for spoiler:

He'll be able to save Irisdeena?

[Chibiloli]

I wonder if anybody around here can make a a Haiburu thread since it's getting it's own anime and appearing in the next TDA.

[grevierr]

Originally Posted by Chibiloli

I wonder if anybody around here can make a a Haiburu thread since it's getting it's own anime and appearing in the next TDA.

The anime is not confirmed. You can always use the request for a new thread sticky thread at the top.

Otherwise, there is the BETA survival thread here http://forums.animesuki.com/showthre...115571&page=13