A question on Neutron Jammer Cancelors

[ccardoso]

I was rewatching episode 48 when I noticed that when Messiah fired the Neo Genesis for the first time a guy in the control room said "activating neutron jammer cancelor". Why? Wasn't Neutron Jammer spreaded by Coordinators on Earth in order to create an energetic crisis among Naturals to make them fall? Neutron Jammer Cancelors were created in order to allow the building of mobile suits with infinite energy to operate on Earth. But Messiah is in space and it's intended to stay there, so why would it require NJC?

[tritoch]

They need it to power up neo-genesis, since it requires huge amounts of energy they needed some nuclear powerplants to run it.

Edit: My only guess is that after "Bloody Valentine", Coordinators made sure that Earth won't use it again and Coordinators too are afraid of using it themselves.

[ccardoso]

Originally Posted by tritoch

They need it to power up neo-genesis, since it requires huge amounts of energy they needed some nuclear powerplants to run it.

Yes in fact I didn't ask why Messiah needs a nuclear reactor, I asked why it has the NJC (which isn't a reactor, is just an additional device to the nuclear reactor to allow it to function).

[JanthraX^]

N-Jammer's have been depolyed in space too, not just on earth. To stop the use of nuclear weapons against colonies.
So for the Neo Genesis' nuclear reactors, the NJC's are needed.

[ccardoso]

Originally Posted by JanthraX^

N-Jammer's have been depolyed in space too, not just on earth. To stop the use of nuclear weapons against colonies.
So for the Neo Genesis' nuclear reactors, the NJC's are needed.

Excuse me but where does it say that NJ was spreaded among the space as well? I looked on Wikipedia and it talks only about Neutron Jammers on Earth.

Neutron Jammer

The N-Jammer or Neutron Jammer is a device which suppresses nuclear fission reactions by blocking the movement of free neutrons (it is probable that nuclear fusion, which does not rely on neutron emission, would be unaffected by an N-Jammer, however current nuclear fusion technology relies on a nuclear fission reaction to attain the correct temperature for fusion to occur, thus the N-Jammer works on nuclear fusion as well). Its effective range is so great that even a handful of these devices are sufficient to cover the entire Earth, nullifying all nuclear weapons and nuclear power plants on the planet's surface. The N-Jammer also has the side effect of disrupting radio waves, severely restricting the range of radar and conventional communications, and for this reason space warships are equipped with these devices as an electronic countermeasure. Its effects appear to be analogous to the Minovsky Effect in Universal Century.

The N-Jammer was originally developed in the PLANTs under the supervision of Supreme Council member Orson White. These devices were first employed in the battle for the space station Yggdrasil on February 22, C.E. 70, and on April 1 of that year the ZAFT forces drove countless N-Jammers into Earth's surface as the first phase of their Operation Uroboros campaign. The nations of Earth, which had previously depended on nuclear fission as their primary power source, were plunged into a severe energy crisis called April Fool's Crisis as a result.

During the winter of CE 70-71, at least hundreds of thousands of Naturals died on Earth because of lack of energy for heating, due directly to the presence of N-Jammers on Earth. However, the Treaty of Junius outlawed the use of N-Jammers in combat, either in a defensive role or as a weapon.

Trivia: when the famous Super Robot Wars series decided to have Mobile Suit Gundam Seed collected into it's game, some users pointed out that having N-Jammers will make other Nuclear powered units not able to move. However, since all other Gundam series units uses Nuclear fusion as their power source and Laser activated nuclear warheads as nuclear weapons, this is not a problem.

Can you link me to a source which states otherwise?

[Rever129]

It would make sense for ZAFT to use NJs in space too so as to prevent OMNI from using nuclear weapons against them in space. Why do you think they didn't use their nuclear arsenal until after they got NJC data that Rau leaked to them?

[RX-78GP04G Gerbera]

Well, it's also common sense as well...if Neutron Jammer's weren't used in space, then why would the Alliance need NJC's (taken from the blueprints in the disk given to Flay by Rau) to use their nuclear warheads???

Why not just nuke them all when the war started if there weren't NJ's in space?

:Edit: If there were NJ's in space, the missiles wouldn't have done anything since there'd be no fission taking place. They'd be like big...objects colliding into something, lol.

[JanthraX^]

hmm they where used during the battle for Yggdrasil, however i cant find any info of deployment in space. Im sure it was said early on in the series, meh good reason to go watch it again =D

[tritoch]

The Alliance couldn't produce the nukes before Rau gave them the disk.

Let me quote mahq again

Originally Posted by episode 47

At the Ptolemaeus base, the N-Jammer Canceler data is examined. Officials want to use it to solve the energy crisis on Earth, but Azrael insists on using it to allow the use of nuclear weapons again. He says that is more important because they have to end the war against the Coordinators in one move. At the same time, nuclear weapons are shipped up from Earth and loaded onto Alliance ships at the Moon base.

[ccardoso]

Originally Posted by RX-78GP04G Gerbera

Well, it's also common sense as well...if Neutron Jammer's weren't used in space, then why would the Alliance need NJC's (taken from the blueprints in the disk given to Flay by Rau) to use their nuclear warheads???

I remember well the episode you're mentioning: I think that the Blue Cosmos leader (I forgot the name of that blonde psycho) was just happy because he just acquired Freedom and Justice blueprints, without the needing of capture them. I think that's quite unreleated to the atomic warheads Earth Alliance tried to launch against PLANT two times, unless it's clearly stated the opposite, but I don't remeber any of this.

Why not just nuke them all when the war started if there weren't NJ's in space?

Because to build nuclear warheads lots of time is required so Earth Alliance waited to have enough warheads in order to annihilate ZAFT with only one single attack.
In effect the first time EA attacked ZAFT with nuclear warheads then PLANT would be done for it wasn't for the two METEORS which protected it. Similiar considerations can be done for the second attack during Destiny.
Is it good as (possible) explanation?

:Edit: If there were NJ's in space, the missiles wouldn't have done anything since there'd be no fission taking place. They'd be like big...objects colliding into something, lol.

In fact, so there can't possibly be NJ in space and so, again, why does Messiah require NJC?

Originally Posted by episode 47
At the Ptolemaeus base, the N-Jammer Canceler data is examined. Officials want to use it to solve the energy crisis on Earth, but Azrael insists on using it to allow the use of nuclear weapons again. He says that is more important because they have to end the war against the Coordinators in one move. At the same time, nuclear weapons are shipped up from Earth and loaded onto Alliance ships at the Moon base.

I just read this...
Well can't it be that NJC was used to let EA to end the process of production of nuclear warheads instead that into the warheads themselves?

[Anh_Minh]

Actually, while leaving NJ in space made sense in the first war, what's the point of keeping them after the EA gained the NJC tech?

[true_cricket]

To increase the cost for the production of nuclear powered weapons?

[tritoch]

ccardoso quoted that ships have n-jammers. Wouldn't that make sense if you fire a normal nuke and it reaches within radius of the n-jammer area of effect that it nullifies the nuke making it impossible to deploy them without NJC?

[ccardoso]

Originally Posted by tritoch

ccardoso quoted that ships have n-jammers. Wouldn't that make sense if you fire a normal nuke and it reaches within radius of the n-jammer area of effect that it nullifies the nuke making it impossible to deploy them without NJC?

It says it's used to disrupt radar and co not against nuclear warheads. Usually you don't sink a space ship with a nuclear warhead: I mean nuclear warheads are meant for relatively fixed targets, not something with high mobility such as a ship.

[Rever129]

I remember well the episode you're mentioning: I think that the Blue Cosmos leader (I forgot the name of that blonde psycho) was just happy because he just acquired Freedom and Justice blueprints, without the needing of capture them. I think that's quite unreleated to the atomic warheads Earth Alliance tried to launch against PLANT two times, unless it's clearly stated the opposite, but I don't remeber any of this.

The reason Azrael,the blond haired guy, was ecstatic was because of the NJC data on that disc would allow the EAF to use nuclear weapons again, hence the relation to the EAF nuclear attack later on. They only reason he was interested in Freedom and Justice was because he wanted to know what was powering those units. He speculated that they were nuclear powered way back when Freedom and Justice fought off a combined Calamity, Raider and Forbidden assault during the EA's attack on ORB.

[Scorch]

Originally Posted by ccardoso

It says it's used to disrupt radar and co not against nuclear warheads. Usually you don't sink a space ship with a nuclear warhead: I mean nuclear warheads are meant for relatively fixed targets, not something with high mobility such as a ship.

Well, it may not apply to SEED fleet battles, but in UC Gundam, MS-06C Zaku IIs were intially equipped with nuclear bazookas (battle of Loum). They had heavy shielding against radiation, which is the main difference between them and later Zaku IIs. They demolished the federation fleet with those, one warhead per Salamis is pretty much a sure kill. In 0083 one nuke destroyed a huge chunk of the federal fleet, but that makes no sense considering the lack of an atmosphere for the shockwave to transmit through.
I'll avoid commenting about neutron jammer technology.

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Just so were all clear on the issue.

A device which suppresses nuclear fission reactions by blocking the movement of free neutrons. Its effective range is so great that even a handful of these devices are sufficient to cover the entire Earth, nullifying all nuclear weapons and powerplants on the planet's surface. The N-Jammer also has the side effect of disrupting radio waves, thus rendering radar and conventional communications useless, and for this reason space warships are equipped with these devices as an electronic countermeasure.

The N-Jammer was originally developed in the PLANTs under the supervision of Supreme Council member Orson White. These devices were first employed in the battle for the space station Yggdrasil on February 22, C.E. 70, and on April 1 of that year the ZAFT forces drove countless N-Jammers into Earth's surface as the first phase of their Operation Uroboros campaign. The nations of Earth, which had hitherto depended on nuclear fission as their primary power source, were plunged into a severe energy crisis as a result.

but that makes no sense considering the lack of an atmosphere for the shockwave to transmit through.

Perhaps but nuclear weapons generate EMP waves and this would fry an electronic device within range. So those ships, even if not destroyed, would go dead in space.

[ccardoso]

Soldierofdarkness the part you "bolded" refers to normal warships, not to the fortress Messiah: it's clearly stated that NJC is activated before firing Neo Genesis for the first time. So it isn't used just as a normal electronic counter-measure.

[monster]

Originally Posted by ccardoso

Soldierofdarkness the part you "bolded" refers to normal warships, not to the fortress Messiah: it's clearly stated that NJC is activated before firing Neo Genesis for the first time. So it isn't used just as a normal electronic counter-measure.

Because the Neo Genesis is powered by a nuclear reactor, so they needed an NJC so the fission process could start. And yes, there is NJ in space, that's why PLANTs were safe from nuclear attack until Azrael received the NJC data from Rau.

[DarkWarrior]

I thought NJs were deployed as a response to the EA nuking Junius 7. It would be kind of stupid if they only sent the NJs to Earth and didn't bother protecting PLANT from being nuked again, wouldn't it?