Romance in Code Geass (take 4)

[Lolipopo]

Originally Posted by dec4rhapsody

Epic propaganda, loli.
I'm wondering what's preventing the "subjunctive mood" in that "lie"-line from being...say "subjunctive"?
Ok, at least, what is that "uncharacteristic kindness/gentleness of yours" aka OOC.
Nobody is saying that teh poem/regret message is a concrete comfirmation since it still leaves some room for debate, which is also the fascnation of this info.
But now, things can't get clearer.
Kallen is 100% sure that her answer would be an "Aishiteru".
And it is not appropriate to make such kind of assumptions unless you are very very very sure about this.
Aishiteru>>>>>>>>>>I love you.
Unless the setting is Macross Frontier.
What's the point in reinforcing this fact over and over again, just to portray her as a lovesick and pathetic girl who assumes that Lelouch was in love with her?

I agree totally. I don't see the point to renforce the idea of kallen's feelings for him more and more, especially when next to that we got lines like "I want you to fulfill your dreams, this is my little wish"; Moreover Kallen was able to understood ZR at the end, so I don't think it's this much of a problem to understand Lelouch's feelings for her at the end.

Didn't the official site said she understood his feelings ? Seriously, let's make a giant addition of everything and everything will be crystal clear. Not that it isn't for me but well...

Moreover if the point was simply to renforce Kallen's one sided love for Lulu, they could very well have done it with Shirley. Shirley was basically the cliche of the one sided love, even if I think it's safe to assume Lelouch had feelings for her as well (but she died)

So yeah, I don't see the logic with the idea of "Kallen is just a lovesick girl, she loves Lelouch even if he didn't loved her back"
Mutual kiss and what was inside, gum line, poem, geass*net, complete, LuluxCC sunk...I really wonder why they didn't do the same with kallen BTW. They didn't have any problem to kill CC as a LI for Lelouch even though she is the most popular girl, so why don't they want to do the same ? Instead they are giving us more and more about Lelouch's feelings through Kallen's understanding.

Narona : feel free to do so. This post isn't annoying at all, so I don't see why I should feel afraid of moderators; I didn't said "ahahahaha cluclu is sunk and kalulu is canon ahahahahaha" there. I said why I was thinking Kallen/lelouch were the most romantic pairing of the show while using STAFF releases. It's everything but a troll, thank you.
For the bold : CC/Nunally : So ? I don't have any right to be happy about that ? O_o When people were coming in kallen's thread claming the gumline was about them it was nothing, but to affirm kallen's line was kallen's is wrong ?
For the joke line, I already explained that, and for Sky's sign I have every right to appreciate it -_-''''

And the cough were avoidable ? O_o To reminds Kallen's poem and Kallen's song as argument and to back up my statement is a troll ?
...

[Grey Dawn]

It's not bad to ask for the same, but dropping your manners in response to such activity, in my experience, is not very likely to stop it. Even though I do agree that Loli can be annoying and several of her statements were unnecessary, I don't think it condones such a response.

Thank you.

[Narona]

Originally Posted by Lolipopo

For the bold : CC/Nunally : So ? I don't have any right to be happy about that ? O_o When people were coming in kallen's thread claming the gumline was about them it was nothing, but to affirm kallen's line was kallen's is wrong ?
For the joke line, I already explained that, and for Sky's sign I have every right to appreciate it -_-''''

And what the kalulu fans did at that time? They said it was probably bullshit and sometimes got angry. But does all the non kalulu fans did that to annoy you? No.

So what? You're trying to say that since some people trolled and annoyed you, you have the right to be annoying? Does it not place you at the same pathetic level? I know you a bit and you are way better than that to not fall at those annoying people's level.

Now maybe I was wrong.

Originally Posted by Grey Dawn

Also, I found 'flaming' to be the wrong word for what you were saying, do you mind changing the quote?

Roger!

Well, I have to leave now, have fun guys o/

[dec4rhapsody]

Originally Posted by dec4rhapsody

Ok, nothing personal plz.
Or else this thread is closed down again.
LOL, shipping is serious business, right?

Just from an Asian's way of perception (less hypotactic structures, critical thinking or whatsoever in sentences), the context wherein that "Aishiteru" is stated points more to an "Yes".

quoting myself

Plz, let's discuss about teh message itself, not about the way we discuss it.

[Lolipopo]

Originally Posted by dec4rhapsody

quoting myself

Plz, let's discuss about teh message itself, not about the way we discuss it.

Ok I let it go. I'll just try to remind it's a bad thing to argue over the fact that Kallen's gumline was finally about her.

Dec4: Is there a way to explain more of this asian perception ? :P Not that I need that (for Kallen to use Aishiteru, I agree with you, there had to be solid basis for that) but It's kinda hard to understand.

[Levy]

Originally Posted by dec4rhapsody

Good, which info/scene exactly is preventing some of you from drawing a conservative conclusion that Lelouch possibly might have some minimum potential of romantic interest towards Kallen?

None actually. In fact, I admit he might have had some 'what could have been...' feelings about Kallen. Same goes for Shirley.

I don't see anything conclusive about him, and honestly, I don't feel any need to go overanalizing stuff to get it. That in a way proves you right, I probably don't care enough about Lelouch's love life XD

I've always shipped CCLelouch, not caring much about the canon status of the pairing, and still I do, feeling just the same about it. If it list as denial I don't know, but it's all the honest answer I have to offer.

PS. doesn't this pooem makes me you too feel bad about Tamaki....??! ;_; poor thing, he's so hopeless in getting Kallen's heart ! =P

[Witacume]

Originally Posted by Narona

That kind of comment is completely useless you know. The kalulu fans think that lelouch's feelings are clear. While we think it's not the case.

Anyway, as I said, given the infos we got for now (till now, only the feelings of lelouch towards c.c. got a clear answer that can't be denied in any way from the complete guidebook), no one will change his/her perspective, so since I didn't see where in the last pages (in this thread at least, I don't talk about some infamous comments that you can find elsewhere) the kalulu fans try to impose their opinion, just let them think what they want, while you too have the right to think the opposite.

But stating it (and I also blame myself because i also did it in the past) like that will only cause more anger and problems.

wow this made me think to myself wow i must have missed a lot.
I have no idea how we can impose our ideas on people on the internet.
I mean am i holding you at gunpoint or something?
I mean if your being convinced by me saying or anyone else for that matter saying
"kalulu is canon" i guess there are a couple of options.
1. your fanship was already a sinking ship thus no real solid ground.
2. You have a pessimistic outlook
3. you do not want to face the truth of sunrise throwing your pairing under the bus.
4. your actually seeing literary sense.
5. ETc

These are just some not all options i can conclude from your response.
Its ok if i was a CC fan i be pissed.
I mean i would be pissed for the whole r2 season and yell to tanaguchi.

[dec4rhapsody]

Originally Posted by Lolipopo

Ok I let it go. I'll just try to remind it's a bad thing to argue over the fact that Kallen's gumline was finally about her.

Dec4: Is there a way to explain more of this asian perception ? :P Not that I need that (for Kallen to use Aishiteru, I agree with you, there had to be solid basis for that) but It's kinda hard to understand.

Well, throw logic of the sentence structure aside and rely more on intuition or context.

Yes, the line did say that "lie" thing.
But adding "you knew that, didn't you" and all the untranslated parts of the poem and the canon story, it does hints that it wouldn't be a lie.

The "You knew that, didn't you?" indicates that Lelouch knew that his answer(teh Aishiteru) would have dragged her with him.

And then follows the part in which Kallen says that it was quite unlike Lelouch not to have taken advantage of that situation and manipulate her.

"It was uncharacteristically gentle/kind of you."
"Is that why you have told me to live on?" (I'm not sure about this sentence.)

"I didn't fall for your gentleness." <- this line was a denial.

[Grey Dawn]

Originally Posted by Witacume

wow this made me think to myself wow i must have missed a lot.
I have no idea how we can impose our ideas on people on the internet.
I mean am i holding you at gunpoint or something?
I mean if your being convinced by me saying or anyone else for that matter saying
"kalulu is canon" i guess there are a couple of options.
1. your fanship was already a sinking ship thus no real solid ground.
2. You have a pessimistic outlook
3. you do not want to face the truth of sunrise throwing your pairing under the bus.
4. your actually seeing literary sense.
5. ETc

These are just some not all options i can conclude from your response.
Its ok if i was a CC fan i be pissed.
I mean i would be pissed for the whole r2 season and yell to tanaguchi.

You know, Narona was already mature enough to agree she was wrong on a few points and table the discussion, you don't need to go antagonizing her more. This is exactly the type of thing that annoyed her in the first place.

@dec: What do you mean this line was a denial? She thinks she doesn't love him for his spurts of kindness or ?

[Witacume]

Originally Posted by yvj

Interesting theory I must hear more because I do battle in the morn

haha Well i guess i can send you a Pm.
But Yeah all i really needed was this poem to reinforce what i already thought and to reinforce the literary sense and plot that was originally put through.
but no more reason to argue on my side.
Sunrise did it for me.

[dec4rhapsody]

Feel free to think whatever you want.
But some of us might believe that this piece of Kallen's does indicates something we want/care to know about or ship.

[dec4rhapsody]

Originally Posted by Grey Dawn

You know, Narona was already mature enough to agree she was wrong on a few points and table the discussion, you don't need to go antagonizing her more. This is exactly the type of thing that annoyed her in the first place.

@dec: What do you mean this line was a denial? She thinks she doesn't love him for his spurts of kindness or ?

This line can be both perceived as Tsundere and bitter.

Lie's perception was "I'd rather you'd allow me to follow you to hell than being this kind to me."

[Eliarine]

Originally Posted by dec4rhapsody

Well, throw logic of the sentence structure aside and rely more on intuition or context.

Yes, the line did say that "lie" thing.
But adding "you knew that, didn't you" and all the untranslated parts of the poem and the canon story, it does hints that it wouldn't be a lie.

The "You knew that, didn't you?" indicates that Lelouch knew that his answer(teh Aishiteru) would have dragged her with him.

And then follows the part in which Kallen says that it was quite unlike Lelouch not to have taken advantage of that situation and manipulate her.

"It was uncharacteristically gentle/kind of you."
"Is that why you have told me to live on?" (I'm not sure about this sentence.)

"I didn't fall for your gentleness." <- this line was a denial.

Thanks for sharing this and your thoughts with us. It makes sense to interpret it that way.

I still think other interpretations make just as much sense, though, so I'll go with the one that I think works best for me according to what I originally deduced from the series.

Just like we should all do, instead of going at each other's throats~~

[dec4rhapsody]

Just reporting what I have heard from kanalelou.
No indications from Lelouch's end in Shirley's poem/message.
Little romantic elements in C.C.'s.

[Nogitsune]

O_O
...This thread is really starting to creep me out. xD

Oh well.
I won't say much to the poem thing, because I never even thought that people might take this as new "evidence" for Lelouch's feelings towards Kallen.
I just interpret it completely differently, and the thought of Kallen being a "pathetic lovesick girl" if Lelouch doesn't feel the same neven even crossed my mind. Maybe I would have thought that about a random other character under completely different circumstances, but Lelouch is a special case and Kallen definitely deserved her personal true on this matter.
Maybe she's right, maybe not... but her feelings for Lelouch were clear in the anime, and I'm with the staff if they decide to continue reinforcing them.
If they really wanted to make Lelouch's feelings clear, however, they could just do so. After officially stating that C.C. was an "equal" and not a love interest to him, it wouldn't kill anyone (or so they'd think).
Until that happens, though, I'll believe whatever I see in the anime. And even if the staff suddenly decided to "confirm" something and got both creators to agree with it, I'd just raise and eyebrow and go back to not caring at all.
I just don't see it. But I understand that it makes sense to other people.

So... could we all hug each other and get along now? xD

[dec4rhapsody]

Originally Posted by Eliarine

Thanks for sharing this and your thoughts with us. It makes sense to interpret it that way.

I still think other interpretations make just as much sense, though, so I'll go with the one that I think works best for me according to what I originally deduced from the series.

Just like we should all do, instead of going at each other's throats~~

Feel free to do so.

[Levy]

Originally Posted by dec4rhapsody

Feel free to think whatever you want.
But some of us might believe that this piece of Kallen's does indicates something we want/care to know about or ship.

And that's fine, none wants to stop you from doing that.
On the contrary, thanks for all the effort you put in sharing things.

[Eliarine]

Originally Posted by dec4rhapsody

Just reporting what I have heard from kanalelou.
No indications from Lelouch's end in Shirley's poem/message.
Little romantic elements in C.C.'s.

Fair enough, and thanks for sharing this. I just think that Kallen's poem is more about her feelings for Lelouch and her realizing that he was too kind to use them against her than a confirmation on his part. I can see how people would interpret it differently though. It's yet another matter of perspective I guess.

[dec4rhapsody]

Gut, then what would serve as such kind of evidence?

[Levy]

Guys, why don't you just chill and share other infos/opinion instead? ^^

c'mon peeeeace!