AnimeSuki Forums

Kigo · 2006-01-08, 00:44

I like many people was quite surprised about Tousen joining forces with Aizen. I was wondering if you guys have any theories on why Tousen joined Aizen. I think in the manga/anime Tousen said he was walking what he thought was the path of justice. Although Aizen's intentions are evil and he knows this, Tousen insists he's doing what he believes is the right thing to do. (Correct me if I'm wrong)

From this I do have a theory -

When Tousen and Kenpachi were fighting, Tousen talks about how Kenpachi fought and killed the previous 11th Captain and how it was disturbing towards him. In the flash backs of Tousen/Komomura you see Tousen standing infront of someone's grave. Maybe that grave belongs to the previous 11th Captain? Tousen might've been really close friends with him or her. In the Gotei 13 one of the ways to become a Captain is to defeat the previous one, in doing so they could legally kill that person if they're not too careful (Kenpachi careful? lol!). After Kenpachi killed his predecessor he couldn't be punished for it, it was prefectly legal. This might've enraged Tousen more even after witnessing (or hearing) his friend's death and for the justice of his or her death not carried out.

The fight between Kenpachi and Tousen showed that Tousen had reached his limits and was easily defeated by Kenpachi. I have a feeling Tousen knew he'd lose to Kenpachi even before the fight, it was just to show the viewers their difference in powers. Tousen needed some way to break his limits in order to carry out his "justice" against Kenpachi, enter Aizen. Tousen probably agreed in order to defeat Kenpachi. That's it in a nut shell

I want to hear some of your's xD (Sorry if this thread is cloned)

Kinny Riddle · 2006-01-08, 01:14

Tousen reminds me of Anji from Rurouni Kenshin (the giant monk who got beaten by Sanosuke in the end). A kind hearted man who believes in justice, but gets disillusioned by the present state of affairs.

He decides to join forces with a potential destructor to destroy the present world and rebuild it all over into a more ideal world where good people need not suffer.

eLcHaKeTeRo · 2006-01-08, 01:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kigo

I like many people was quite surprised about Tousen joining forces with Aizen. I was wondering if you guys have any theories on why Tousen joined Aizen. I think in the manga/anime Tousen said he was walking what he thought was the path of justice. Although Aizen's intentions are evil and he knows this, Tousen insists he's doing what he believes is the right thing to do. (Correct me if I'm wrong)

From this I do have a theory -

When Tousen and Kenpachi were fighting, Tousen talks about how Kenpachi fought and killed the previous 11th Captain and how it was disturbing towards him. In the flash backs of Tousen/Komomura you see Tousen standing infront of someone's grave. Maybe that grave belongs to the previous 11th Captain? Tousen might've been really close friends with him or her. In the Gotei 13 one of the ways to become a Captain is to defeat the previous one, in doing so they could legally kill that person if they're not too careful (Kenpachi careful? lol!). After Kenpachi killed his predecessor he couldn't be punished for it, it was prefectly legal. This might've enraged Tousen more even after witnessing (or hearing) his friend's death and for the justice of his or her death not carried out.

The fight between Kenpachi and Tousen showed that Tousen had reached his limits and was easily defeated by Kenpachi. I have a feeling Tousen knew he'd lose to Kenpachi even before the fight, it was just to show the viewers their difference in powers. Tousen needed some way to break his limits in order to carry out his "justice" against Kenpachi, enter Aizen. Tousen probably agreed in order to defeat Kenpachi. That's it in a nut shell

I want to hear some of your's xD (Sorry if this thread is cloned)

that actually makes sense, i was wondering the same thing........Aizen, evil.....Tousen, good?...thats a pretty good theory though

Grees · 2006-01-08, 03:49

Maybe Aizen promised Tousen something, something that is dear to Tousen, something like his dead friend/girlfriend. Who knows what else Aizen has been researching on.
Or maybe he just joined for the better dental plans, those Menos sure have big teeth.

striderm · 2006-01-08, 04:18

It's all to pick up emo chicks.

eLcHaKeTeRo · 2006-01-08, 04:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Small One

What makes you think that Aizen is evil?
Because he tried to kill a few Shinigami? Ishida had the same motive in the beginning, and even Ichigo and his crew wanted to do the same thing for most of the Soul Society arc.
Just because the persons, Aizen fought agains are the main characters, it doesn't necessarily mean that his motives are evil.

he essentually wants to become "god", i would catagorize him under evil...but that s just my personal opinion, im not say ur wrong either thats just what i gathered from episode 62

Morisato · 2006-01-08, 05:36

Tousen has no motives, he seeks the path with least bloodshed, simple as that and what better way to stop all the bloodshed than to have Aizen as the all powerful god of the new world. If Aizen manages to be god/a dictator, then there'll be no more shinigami war with the hollows, no one to defy Aizen, etc. And no war means no bloodshed.

carb · 2006-01-08, 06:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Small One

Well, in most religions, "god" is good per definition... so someone who wants to become god also has to be good.

Personally I think that "good" and "bad" doesn't exist. There are just different viewpoints.

The fact that they are view points of people makes the 2 exist.

The Crappinometer · 2006-01-08, 06:40

if my memory serves me right, he mentioned that he was following the path of least bloodshed

Ja-Y-Ce · 2006-01-08, 06:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Small One

Well, in most religions, "god" is good per definition... so someone who wants to become god also has to be good.

Personally I think that "good" and "bad" doesn't exist. There are just different viewpoints.

Yep. Just like there will be pple who will support Raito frm the Death Note who is oso seen to be a God. I would tink that pple will hold diff perspective of wat is being 'good'. Sorry for the cross-over.

Perhaps, in a way, Aizen will be a God if he stands true to wateva in his beliefs and the fact tt he has followers such as Gin n Tousen (at least). As for Tousen's motives, hmmm... maybe it is still early to say? Who knoes, there mite be another conspiracy behind that will throw us all out? Haha, now i wish for tt to happen...

astrallionheart · 2006-01-08, 06:54

Although, that does seem to be a vague thing to be basing your choices on. I mean, how can choosing a "path" which leads to less bloodshed than the "current one" (if left untouched) be anything more than a crapshoot? (Uh...I "think" this might lead to less bloodshed...)

I mean, it's really a false assumption that you can control all kinds of variables (or, a poppycock plan that's based on nothing coming in your way, like, "I shall drive 40mph in Brasilia and, even though there are potholes everywhere from stolen manhole covers, nothing will befall me").

soulfly · 2006-01-08, 10:11

I think he's just a confused person. Pity for him.....

Soluzar · 2006-01-08, 10:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Small One

Well, in most religions, "god" is good per definition... so someone who wants to become god also has to be good.

Fallacious. Whatever "God" is would become known as good, to his followers.

Mr. DJ · 2006-01-09, 01:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Small One

What makes you think that Aizen is evil?

did you like miss the episode where Aizen damn near killed Hinamori and Hitsugaya and him explaining his motives since when Hinamori, Kira and Renji were still in the academy? o_O

he used Hinamori because she idolized him which made her VERY EASY to manipulate, and when he had no more use for her, pretty damn near killed her. Both Hinamori and Hitsugaya would have died if it wasn't for the 4th Captain *her name escapes me right now*

c'mon now, where in that does not warrant a evil genius mastermind? O.o

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Small One

Well, in most religions, "god" is good per definition... so someone who wants to become god also has to be good.

Personally I think that "good" and "bad" doesn't exist. There are just different viewpoints.

either you're joking...or you need a reality check

shadowsoul · 2006-01-09, 08:52

Aizen: Let There Be LIGHT!
Tousen: Aizen I can see the light!

Or he was just fed up with the current democratic system and wanted to try communism.

BrokenWingz · 2006-01-09, 10:00

Being god means having power>justice
on the whole of is Aizen evil or not doesnt the fact that he "didnt" kill them off even with his accurate guess tell you something(that he didnt want them to die(yet?) )

Friendless · 2006-01-09, 19:51

" Good " and " Evil " are nothing but simple perspectives... To Tousen he's doing good and so is Aizen, to Aizen his doing good. However to Ichigo, Aizen is probley doing ' evil ' as to Aizen, Ichigo is doing ' evil '.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=god

Definition of ' god '.

Same as 'GOD', it has a perspective in most peoples mind to be GOOD or EVIL. Most people pertray 'GOD' as already good (Primarly the cathlics and other incompetent religions in my opinion, ' no offense') however 'GOD' is also subjective to perspective on how it's GOOD or EVIL. Not to mention this word of 'GOD' came from a translation in japan, so their could be a more clearful meaning to the word in japan rather than in america, havn't looked into it.

I'll have to look at it again cause I didn't pay much attention but I was thinking that Tousen joined Aizen for he wanted to help end the meaningless cycle that just causes continuous death and pain.

Inkognito · 2006-01-09, 21:06

As I recall he said something along the lines of "These eyes only see the path with the least blood." To me, that signifies that he may be joining forces with Aizen to try to speed along the process with as little bloodshed as possible. That, of course, would also suggest that Tousen see's Aizen as the eventual victor and that by working together and becoming more powerful, Tousen will be able to see justice done.

I'm not sure if all of that makes sense, but maybe Tousen wishes to try to bring order and justice and thinks the ends will justify the means.

SuperKnuckles · 2006-01-09, 22:24

I sorta sympathize with Tousen. He's leaving one thuggish organization for another thuggish organization. I bet he just wanted a better office space.

midgard · 2006-01-09, 23:57

Idk from Tousen's character I got the sense that he is more of a follower. Aizen made a big impression on him when he was in the 5th squard and so he just follow Aizen ever since. Tousen's motive (his justice and such explanation) will be a subplot of the story but IMO won't ulter story in any way shape or form. In the end I think that Tousen will realize the faultiness of his path and lament (before he dies)....seem very animezie.

IMO Tousen will prove to be "blind" to the very end.

Gin on the other hand...he seems to have a hidden motive.

2006-01-08, 00:44	Link #1
Kigo Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2005	Tousen's Motives? I like many people was quite surprised about Tousen joining forces with Aizen. I was wondering if you guys have any theories on why Tousen joined Aizen. I think in the manga/anime Tousen said he was walking what he thought was the path of justice. Although Aizen's intentions are evil and he knows this, Tousen insists he's doing what he believes is the right thing to do. (Correct me if I'm wrong) From this I do have a theory - When Tousen and Kenpachi were fighting, Tousen talks about how Kenpachi fought and killed the previous 11th Captain and how it was disturbing towards him. In the flash backs of Tousen/Komomura you see Tousen standing infront of someone's grave. Maybe that grave belongs to the previous 11th Captain? Tousen might've been really close friends with him or her. In the Gotei 13 one of the ways to become a Captain is to defeat the previous one, in doing so they could legally kill that person if they're not too careful (Kenpachi careful? lol!). After Kenpachi killed his predecessor he couldn't be punished for it, it was prefectly legal. This might've enraged Tousen more even after witnessing (or hearing) his friend's death and for the justice of his or her death not carried out. The fight between Kenpachi and Tousen showed that Tousen had reached his limits and was easily defeated by Kenpachi. I have a feeling Tousen knew he'd lose to Kenpachi even before the fight, it was just to show the viewers their difference in powers. Tousen needed some way to break his limits in order to carry out his "justice" against Kenpachi, enter Aizen. Tousen probably agreed in order to defeat Kenpachi. That's it in a nut shell I want to hear some of your's xD (Sorry if this thread is cloned) Last edited by Kigo; 2006-01-08 at 00:46. Reason: Corrections ^^;;

2006-01-08, 01:14	Link #2
Kinny Riddle Gone for Good Join Date: Apr 2004	Tousen reminds me of Anji from Rurouni Kenshin (the giant monk who got beaten by Sanosuke in the end). A kind hearted man who believes in justice, but gets disillusioned by the present state of affairs. He decides to join forces with a potential destructor to destroy the present world and rebuild it all over into a more ideal world where good people need not suffer.

2006-01-08, 03:49	Link #4
Grees Ehhh Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Strange-ville	Maybe Aizen promised Tousen something, something that is dear to Tousen, something like his dead friend/girlfriend. Who knows what else Aizen has been researching on. Or maybe he just joined for the better dental plans, those Menos sure have big teeth.

2006-01-08, 04:18	Link #5
striderm Adusa #1 Join Date: Dec 2005	It's all to pick up emo chicks.

2006-01-08, 05:36	Link #7
Morisato Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005	Tousen has no motives, he seeks the path with least bloodshed, simple as that and what better way to stop all the bloodshed than to have Aizen as the all powerful god of the new world. If Aizen manages to be god/a dictator, then there'll be no more shinigami war with the hollows, no one to defy Aizen, etc. And no war means no bloodshed.

2006-01-08, 06:40	Link #9
The Crappinometer Haruhiist For Life Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Philippines	if my memory serves me right, he mentioned that he was following the path of least bloodshed

2006-01-08, 06:54	Link #11
astrallionheart Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005	Although, that does seem to be a vague thing to be basing your choices on. I mean, how can choosing a "path" which leads to less bloodshed than the "current one" (if left untouched) be anything more than a crapshoot? (Uh...I "think" this might lead to less bloodshed...) I mean, it's really a false assumption that you can control all kinds of variables (or, a poppycock plan that's based on nothing coming in your way, like, "I shall drive 40mph in Brasilia and, even though there are potholes everywhere from stolen manhole covers, nothing will befall me").

2006-01-08, 10:11	Link #12
soulfly Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2006	I think he's just a confused person. Pity for him.....

2006-01-09, 08:52	Link #15
shadowsoul Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: dimesions beyond all others	Aizen: Let There Be LIGHT! Tousen: Aizen I can see the light! Or he was just fed up with the current democratic system and wanted to try communism.

2006-01-09, 10:00	Link #16
BrokenWingz Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Age: 34	Being god means having power>justice on the whole of is Aizen evil or not doesnt the fact that he "didnt" kill them off even with his accurate guess tell you something(that he didnt want them to die(yet?) )

2006-01-09, 19:51	Link #17
Friendless Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Age: 36	" Good " and " Evil " are nothing but simple perspectives... To Tousen he's doing good and so is Aizen, to Aizen his doing good. However to Ichigo, Aizen is probley doing ' evil ' as to Aizen, Ichigo is doing ' evil '. http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=god Definition of ' god '. Same as 'GOD', it has a perspective in most peoples mind to be GOOD or EVIL. Most people pertray 'GOD' as already good (Primarly the cathlics and other incompetent religions in my opinion, ' no offense') however 'GOD' is also subjective to perspective on how it's GOOD or EVIL. Not to mention this word of 'GOD' came from a translation in japan, so their could be a more clearful meaning to the word in japan rather than in america, havn't looked into it. I'll have to look at it again cause I didn't pay much attention but I was thinking that Tousen joined Aizen for he wanted to help end the meaningless cycle that just causes continuous death and pain.

2006-01-09, 21:06	Link #18
Inkognito Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2005	As I recall he said something along the lines of "These eyes only see the path with the least blood." To me, that signifies that he may be joining forces with Aizen to try to speed along the process with as little bloodshed as possible. That, of course, would also suggest that Tousen see's Aizen as the eventual victor and that by working together and becoming more powerful, Tousen will be able to see justice done. I'm not sure if all of that makes sense, but maybe Tousen wishes to try to bring order and justice and thinks the ends will justify the means.

2006-01-09, 22:24	Link #19
SuperKnuckles Anime Hobbyist Join Date: Dec 2004	I sorta sympathize with Tousen. He's leaving one thuggish organization for another thuggish organization. I bet he just wanted a better office space.

2006-01-09, 23:57	Link #20
midgard Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2005	Idk from Tousen's character I got the sense that he is more of a follower. Aizen made a big impression on him when he was in the 5th squard and so he just follow Aizen ever since. Tousen's motive (his justice and such explanation) will be a subplot of the story but IMO won't ulter story in any way shape or form. In the end I think that Tousen will realize the faultiness of his path and lament (before he dies)....seem very animezie. IMO Tousen will prove to be "blind" to the very end. Gin on the other hand...he seems to have a hidden motive.