Angel Beats! - Episode 5 Discussion / Poll

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

who wants tog o back to High school?

*raises hand*

Short days, long vacations, high school was paradise. In fact, I'm happy I'm studying again. Easy life for 3 more years. *sigh*

But agreed, every stage in life probably has their own version of the afterlife. After all, the entire point of this world is to give you a place where you can calmly center your thoughts. Best to give a world you're familiar with.

Originally Posted by risingstar3110

You can't expect everyone to believe in all Buddhism concept through. I means: can you blame anyone if they believe a God created that world instead?

I believe the subject of our debate got a bit warped here. I don't blame anyone for believing there is a god, however that doesn't mean that this afterlife actually has a god. Even Yuri herself has accepted the possibility of that this episode.

Originally Posted by risingstar3110

Btw, you haven't seen Yuri "yell at" or throw her frustration at someone, haven't you? Because if you did, you will knows that you are off target
All sort of people in SSS and they all affected Yuri decision. So don't have to worry that everything Yuri or the SSS did is out of revenge

When did I say that? I just said that Yuri, or the SSS entirely for that matter, need a visible target to chase after. That used to be Tenshi, now the likely target is El Presidente.

[ninryu]

I think the school is some kind of purgatory where they can heal their pain and anger from life and accept their deaths. if you that is the case, then disappearing is the wanted result and Kanada tries to help them "disappear".

Originally Posted by Sinestra

Seriously could they have fucked Tenshi any harder without so much as mentioning lube? I mean it wasn't enough to screw her over during the test and make her get a zero in al lthe subjects but they took her ticket for her favorite meal too when all the girl just wanted to do is drown her sorrows in her favorite dish. Plus thanks to their antics they managed to create an enemy whose going to be a thousand times worse than Tenshi was. Good job Yuri. I feel the worse for Tenshi right now the girl just seems to get the short end of the stick all the time. F you SSS and Otonashi you need grow a pair of stones dude. You obviously have pretty decent instincts why not act on them what are they going to do kill you

this.

[risingstar3110]

Originally Posted by Keroko

I believe the subject of our debate got a bit warped here. I don't blame anyone for believing there is a god, however that doesn't mean that this afterlife actually has a god. Even Yuri herself has accepted the possibility of that this episode.

When did I say that? I just said that Yuri, or the SSS entirely for that matter, need a visible target to chase after. That used to be Tenshi, now the likely target is El Presidente.

Yeah i don't think there is a God in that afterlife either. But if i am the SSS, i probably will still chase after the origin of that world (whether it was God or if it was caused by my brain wave or human wills, etc...) in the same method anyway. What i'm trying to say is: it's not necessary to or to not believe in God's existence to be an SSS. It's just happened that Yuri may believe in one

That comes up to my second point. When you are heading toward some goals, you always have to hold something concrete, otherwise you would simply a dreamer. And obviously if the fall of Kanede resulted a sudden change of your expectation, then the new element to investigate would be the "El Presidente". It would suck more if they don't have something concrete to do and have to carry out the last resort of causing a huge havoc

I thought you said that Yuri is trying to yell at Tenshi, the president or random people out of her frustration, anger or vengeance. My bad then

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by Sinestra

I mean it wasn't enough to screw her over during the test and make her get a zero in al lthe subjects but they took her ticket for her favorite meal too when all the girl just wanted to do is drown her sorrows in her favorite dish.

Remember that they didn't plan Tenshi coming to the concert at all, let alone buying a meal ticket. The fun fact is that considering Operation Tornado is a "routine" mission for SSS, Kanade should know about that pretty well, yet she went over there and got her ticket lost in the process.

Plus thanks to their antics they managed to create an enemy whose going to be a thousand times worse than Tenshi was.

Mind showing where exactly they could expect someone "worse" than TEH Tenshi?
The objective of the whole thing was to overthrow her, it isn't like they could expect another "boss" coming out, especially that Kanade herself doesn't look like your average mid level boss (the only entity in the world that can materialize things that are "beyond reality").

Good job Yuri. I feel the worse for Tenshi right now the girl just seems to get the short end of the stick all the time. F you SSS and Otonashi you need grow a pair of stones dude. You obviously have pretty decent instincts why not act on them what are they going to do kill you

I think you are jumping on the gun here. Although Kanade is surely having the short end of a stick here, remember that:
1) They definitely go through a lot of hardship because of her, likewise (and they certainly got killed more than once, directly or indirectly due to her actions as well).
2) The operation objective was to mainly overthrow her role, having in mind that she was a machine/NPC. Even if they had that new information in Episode 4, they did not know she was human like them. And if you have noticed their behaviour, and also the information in the light novel, Kanade hardly explained them about her circumstances.

From a warfare perspective, involving an enemy you -can't- deal with (as shown in the prequel, and her unresponsive usual demeanor), there is no way you can involve the enemy's "mindset" and possible reaction. I guess the privilege of being able to have an overal view of the situation as a anime watcher isn't all that much of an advantage to understand each party involved.

Don't get me wrong, Kanade is obviously not the troublemaker whatsoever, but she shares a huge responsibility to this mess as well. Whereas the SSS don't know everything yet, it isn't like they had better options (and as shown by Otonashi and Yuri's comments, these 2 aren't brain dead or clueless not to notice Kanade's reactions). As much as Yuri and her gang make a lot of troubles, Kanade doesn't help anything by playing the mute cold queen.

[spawnofthejudge]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

Remember that they didn't plan Tenshi coming to the concert at all, let alone buying a meal ticket. The fun fact is that considering Operation Tornado is a "routine" mission for SSS, Kanade should know about that pretty well, yet she went over there and got her ticket lost in the process.

I was thinking about this. Part of me wonders whether she wasn't wanting to get comfort food so much as.... lose her ticket like most of the people in the crowd. Or maybe she wanted one or the other. But as she really should know what the SSS were up to, you'd think she'd have planned on it.

[KanadeYuri]

Originally Posted by spawnofthejudge

I was thinking about this. Part of me wonders whether she wasn't wanting to get comfort food so much as.... lose her ticket like most of the people in the crowd. Or maybe she wanted one or the other. But as she really should know what the SSS were up to, you'd think she'd have planned on it.

maybe she's... trying to act like everybody and disappear? if so, SSS just got meaner XD

[DmonHiro]

Well, I'm 100% sure that the new guy will be a hell of a lot worse then Kanade, and if he can fight, they are screwed. And Kanade needs a hug, goddamn it! Otonashi, go hug her already. You know you want to, you sensed she was a good girl already. Just go with your gut feeling.

[maplehurry]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

1) They definitely go through a lot of hardship because of her, likewise (and they certainly got killed more than once, directly or indirectly due to her actions as well).

I suppose it could sort of make sense psychologically. But if anyone whines and actually hates Tenshi for doing her job, they are immature. Thankfully Yuri is more mature than some of her underlings.

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by risingstar3110

Yeah i don't think there is a God in that afterlife either. But if i am the SSS, i probably will still chase after the origin of that world (whether it was God or if it was caused by my brain wave or human wills, etc...) in the same method anyway. What i'm trying to say is: it's not necessary to or to not believe in God's existence to be an SSS. It's just happened that Yuri may believe in one

And I never claimed it was a requirement. Otonashi already shows that. What I did propose -and that's the origin of this debate that got lost- was that perhaps the series is without a true antagonist, and that the entire series is about the SSS chasing a non-existent god.

Originally Posted by risingstar3110

I thought you said that Yuri is trying to yell at Tenshi, the president or random people out of her frustration, anger or vengeance. My bad then

Well, she does take her anger out on random people. Mostly Hinata.

Originally Posted by Klashikari

Remember that they didn't plan Tenshi coming to the concert at all, let alone buying a meal ticket. The fun fact is that considering Operation Tornado is a "routine" mission for SSS, Kanade should know about that pretty well, yet she went over there and got her ticket lost in the process.

Shows just how distressed she was for losing her job. Well, that, and without Operation Tornado the whole 'losing her meal ticket' plot would have been a tad difficult to pull off.

Originally Posted by maplehurry

I suppose it could sort of make sense psychologically. But if anyone whines and actually hates Tenshi for doing her job, they are immature. Thankfully Yuri is more mature than some of her underlings.

They're high-school kids. Of course they're immature. That, and going against the system -and thereby Tenshi- is the entire point of the SSS.

[Kafriel]

it wasn't enough to screw her over during the test and make her get a zero in al lthe subjects

Is it just me or wasn't Tenshi cheating by copying answers from the textbook on her desk during one of the SSS' chat between tests? It was said that she resigned from her position, Yuri's the one who said otherwise, and she hasn't shown any emotions so far...so maybe it's aaaall just a huge misunderstanding on SSS' part? Wouldn't be the first time.

[melange]

Originally Posted by Kafriel

Is it just me or wasn't Tenshi cheating by copying answers from the textbook on her desk during one of the SSS' chat between tests?

Maybe she just doing revision during the time between tests?

[maplehurry]

Originally Posted by Keroko

going against the system -and thereby Tenshi- is the entire point of the SSS.

Yes, hence why I facepalmed when the guy reacted to Otonashi's suggestion by complaining about Tenshi hurting them in the past. I mean Hello? There're better reasons against Tenshi joining than this. Because it's like criminals whining about police. It's one thing to recognize that she's an enemy in their way, but it's another to act like a spoiled brat and hate her for it. But ya, like you said, they are immature high-school kids. I guess I expected a little too much.

[Dr. Casey]

Originally Posted by Keroko

*raises hand*

Short days, long vacations, high school was paradise.

Did your school have short days? I thought high schools everywhere tended to have days around seven hours long (7:40 AM to 2:40 PM or whatever). Unless you thought 35 hours of high school per week was a small amount, in which case you'd have probably been the only teenager ever to think that.

And to add something on-topic, Angel Beats 5 was good. This episode had a perfect 10 score for the first 16 or so votes, that's impressive.

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by maplehurry

Yes, hence why I facepalmed when the guy reacted to Otonashi's suggestion by complaining about Tenshi hurting them in the past. I mean Hello? There're better reasons against Tenshi joining than this. Because it's like criminals whining about police. It's one thing to recognize that she's an enemy in their way, but it's another to act like a spoiled brat and hate her for it. But ya, like you said, they are immature high-school kids. I guess I expected a little too much.

It's not strange that you expected that, with anime so often showing kids thinking like adults, it can be easy to forget that not every anime has super mature kids walking around.

I find it refreshing to have another anime in which the kids think like kids. Setting traps like giant hammers, rolling balls and puppy-dolls flowing down waterfalls (cause hey, Tenshi is a girl right?).

Originally Posted by Dr. Casey

Did your school have short days? I thought high schools everywhere tended to have days around seven hours long (7:40 AM to 2:40 PM or whatever). Unless you thought 35 hours of high school per week was a small amount, in which case you'd have probably been the only teenager ever to think that.

Seven hours > nine hour work days, with less vacations to boot. School days were also more varied (sometimes you had days from 8:30 to 3, other times you could sleep until 12) and that's not even counting excursions, varied classes, canceled lessons because of absent teachers and so on and so on. Of course, it varies per region.

Oh, and of course this is all hindsight. I was complaining just as loudly when I was still stuck at school as well.

[Sinestra]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

R

emember that they didn't plan Tenshi coming to the concert at all, let alone buying a meal ticket. The fun fact is that considering Operation Tornado is a "routine" mission for SSS, Kanade should know about that pretty well, yet she went over there and got her ticket lost in the process.
Mind showing where exactly they could expect someone "worse" than TEH Tenshi? The objective of the whole thing was to overthrow her, it isn't like they could expect another "boss" coming out, especially that Kanade herself doesn't look like your average mid level boss (the only entity in the world that can materialize things that are "beyond reality").

The fact that its routine would still leave a slight chance that she would show up. If it was not for Otonashi they would have started shooting on sight. Even Yuri was surprised that she even got inside. I think the worst part of it is that after everything the SSS put her through, her meal ticket being taken was like twisting the dagger and it wasnt even on purpose. We have not had many scenes that show a personal side of Tenshi and imo something a person might eat when they are depressed is pretty personal. I guess we can just chalk it up to her have one hell of day. But the scene with her reaching as her ticket blew away broke my heart.

Part of war is anticipating the result of your attack and how the enemy might respond. I find it hard to believe the SSS would not have any info on the VP considering he serves under Tenshi. Removing her from office would create a power vacuum that obviously someone would have fill. Also it seems this guy way more Totalitarian than Tenshi was. The fact he stated he was not going to be as easy on them as Tenshi was suggest that hes given this some thought. He didnt come alone he bought what looks like a disciplinary squad with him. Since they are regular students they cant shoot them. I think outright rebelling against this new Prez is going to be harder than actually dealing with Tenshi.

I think you are jumping on the gun here. Although Kanade is surely having the short end of a stick here, remember that:
1) They definitely go through a lot of hardship because of her, likewise (and they certainly got killed more than once, directly or indirectly due to her actions as well).
2) The operation objective was to mainly overthrow her role, having in mind that she was a machine/NPC. Even if they had that new information in Episode 4, they did not know she was human like them. And if you have noticed their behaviour, and also the information in the light novel, Kanade hardly explained them about her circumstances.

That is true but i think its double edged sword they were killed for breaking rules but they are breaking the rules because they feel its justified. I cant bring myself to say its ok just because she never explained her situation my mind just wont compute it like that. Her reactions are a result of the SSS actions so who can we really call the bad guy here (if there really is one) both sides seemed justified in what they are doing.

I have not read the novel so maybe its explained or presented better in the written word. But from what i can see they had a hint or at least Yuri had a hint that Kanade was not what they had thought she was after finding the files in her PC. I would have tried to dig further and gathered more intel but they didnt. Yuri seems to hide a lot.

From a warfare perspective, involving an enemy you -can't- deal with (as shown in the prequel, and her unresponsive usual demeanor), there is no way you can involve the enemy's "mindset" and possible reaction. I guess the privilege of being able to have an overal view of the situation as a anime watcher isn't all that much of an advantage to understand each party involved.

I agree

Don't get me wrong, Kanade is obviously not the troublemaker whatsoever, but she shares a huge responsibility to this mess as well. Whereas the SSS don't know everything yet, it isn't like they had better options (and as shown by Otonashi and Yuri's comments, these 2 aren't brain dead or clueless not to notice Kanade's reactions). As much as Yuri and her gang make a lot of troubles, Kanade doesn't help anything by playing the mute cold queen.

I agree that maybe if she opened up a bit maybe a dialog could take place. But she doesnt look like someone who is comfortable with her own feelings let alone sharing them with others. I concur they both do share responsibility for the problems. I guess i feel like in a way she is getting bullied even though i know shes far from being innocent. Im probably just being overly sensitive lol but i am looking forward to seeing how they counter this new guy. Who looks like he would like to start his own Gestapo

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by maplehurry

Yes, hence why I facepalmed when the guy reacted to Otonashi's suggestion by complaining about Tenshi hurting them in the past. I mean Hello? There're better reasons against Tenshi joining than this. Because it's like criminals whining about police. It's one thing to recognize that she's an enemy in their way, but it's another to act like a spoiled brat and hate her for it. But ya, like you said, they are immature high-school kids. I guess I expected a little too much.

they are high school student.

Anyway what do the students do when school is over and is there winter/summer vacation or is it a year round school?

[Shibs]

Originally Posted by maplehurry

Yes, hence why I facepalmed when the guy reacted to Otonashi's suggestion by complaining about Tenshi hurting them in the past. I mean Hello? There're better reasons against Tenshi joining than this. Because it's like criminals whining about police. It's one thing to recognize that she's an enemy in their way, but it's another to act like a spoiled brat and hate her for it. But ya, like you said, they are immature high-school kids. I guess I expected a little too much.

I think the reason why they complained about Kanade joining the SSS is that they're still holding on their memories when alive, and, because Yuri helped them putting the blame on Kanade, they have a huge grudge against her. The only reason Otonashi realized that she is also suffering is thanks to his memory loss, thus not feeling the same anger the other SSS members feel (which is strange since I would feel at least a bit of resent after someone who "killed" me...). And remember that he had a lot of opportunities to talk to her.

[Ashaman]

If we are talking about kills, the SSS is actually responsible for two kills against Otonashi, while Tenshi has 1. All in the first episode too.

But yeah, he seems to have realized that she isn't as at fault as he was originally told. Plus he felt bad for her anyway...

Its only a matter of time til we learn more

[DmonHiro]

Honestly, if that had been be, I wouldn't hold a grudge against Kanade either. Plus, I would have been killed TWICE by the SSS a few hours later, so......

[maplehurry]

Originally Posted by Shibs

I think the reason why they complained about Kanade joining the SSS is that they're still holding on their memories when alive, and, because Yuri helped them putting the blame on Kanade, they have a huge grudge against her.

That would make more sense if you theory is correct, but... we will see...

The only reason Otonashi realized that she is also suffering is thanks to his memory loss, thus not feeling the same anger the other SSS members feel

Otonashi is one, but I also compare them to Yuri. She had a chance to play dumb and put more blame onto Tenshi when the lead singer disappeared, but she didnt.