2010-01-20, 16:28 | Link #1021 | |||||
Homo Ludens
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 34
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...Actually, that brings up an interesting point. Why does his corpse show up at some times but not at others? It shows up in Ep1, Ep3, and Ep4... what do those games have in common? It has to be something like the internal phone line being cut. Genji has to be the one doing it, since whenever he dies in a first twilight the internal line still works. ...Do those three games have something in common that none of the other games do? Quote:
...I think we can agree that that's a very silly theory. Quote:
And no, I wouldn't trust Ryukishi to pull out anything good at this point. ...I honestly think there's some truth to the rumors that BT was ghostwriting the series. Quote:
It just makes sense... Quote:
Unless you're with ijriims and believe that Battler's (step)mother was in love with him... |
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2010-01-20, 16:32 | Link #1022 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: My Desk
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Ugh.. Could it be that Shanon and Kanon share the same life force and that when one side gathers too much luck the other falters?
Because no matter how badly i try to wrap my head around the Skhanon theory it provides no advantage what so ever. The theme is all about finding the most clever way to be at two places at once which is what Eva + Chibi!Eva accomplished. The current Skhanon theory is one person using two persona's which is no different than one person. The only way this is going to work is if Kanon and Shanon registers as one person in the Meta!World while in the Real!World they are seen as two different people.
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2010-01-20, 16:35 | Link #1023 |
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: New Zealand
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Regarding ShKanon, last time I checked, the main basis of that theory was the fact that Battler didn't see them together until ep 5, and the 'including you there are only 17 people on Rokkenjima'
however, correct me if I'm wrong..... but last time I checked, both Kanon and Shannon were in the chapel in ep 2. Battler was also in the chapel at that time. That would mean that he saw them together, even if it was stated in those exact words, would it not? |
2010-01-20, 16:40 | Link #1024 | |
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Join Date: Feb 2008
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Also, honestly, just by process of elimination we cannot say Shannon is definitely Beatrice. Sure, I'm not denying that possibility, but as I've pointed out, there are some things that just conflict with that idea, unless Shannon is really fucked up in the head. They weren't there together by the time Battler reached the chapel. Rosa ordered Shannon and Genji to contact Kinzo. So, when Battler arrived, only Kanon was there.
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2010-01-20, 16:53 | Link #1026 | |
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: My Desk
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Then the "Kinzo" everyone saw at the dinning hall who they did not mistake. Was the New Kinzo every one accepted a long time ago? Then this new "Kinzo" is just a Person X + Text!Kinzo. The corpse not showing up at Ep2 added hope that maybe he was still alive which changed nothing. Could it be Ep4 was special in some way, or this Person X only existed in this Ep only.
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Last edited by Crontica; 2010-01-20 at 17:12. |
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2010-01-20, 17:01 | Link #1027 | |
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Join Date: May 2009
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But its value to the storyline is grossly overrated. I don't think people have even bothered to ask the consequences of such a revelation and whether it actually helps solve anything. I've gone so far as to assume it as true and looked at what results, and I'm honestly not very impressed. It resolves practically nothing of importance, and just raises even more questions whose answers would be far more interesting. |
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2010-01-20, 18:06 | Link #1028 | |||||
Purupurupiko-Man
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: My beloved hometown, the mackerel river running through it
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Maybe Krauss gave up and brought the coffin downstairs. |
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2010-01-20, 18:19 | Link #1029 | |
Dea ex Kakera
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sea of Fragments
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About that, unless the meaning of "existing" is being played with, I think that's impossible. Everyone at the conference acknowledged the existence of Kinzo. A corpse that belongs to Kinzo exists. However, Kinzo does not exist. In other words, even if Kinzo's corpse was brought down, the existence of the corpse is not the same as the existence of Kinzo. |
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2010-01-20, 18:21 | Link #1030 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
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No, I meant it in game. Also, I never said she was that cheerful, but nothing we've been shown shows she's been suffering, like 34 said Beatrice has. In fact, we've seen Shannon having a good time in the mansion in general, she's also had a good time with Jessica, and with George. Naturally, R07 could always come up with a twist and say all of that was a lie, and that she's been having a shit life. However, so far, nothing like that has been hinted, even subtly.
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2010-01-20, 18:38 | Link #1031 | |
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Join Date: May 2007
Location: My Desk
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Everyone at the conference acknowledged the existence of Kinzo = Everyone acknowledged the new owner of Text!Kinzo. A corpse that belongs to Kinzo exists. = The corpse that previously had Text!Kinzo. However, Kinzo does not exist. = Wooohoo finally. That means Human!Kinzo theory is dead. The burnt corpse is just Person X who previously had Text!Kinzo Omg a theory has been solved!? *Falls Asleep*
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2010-01-20, 19:12 | Link #1032 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Houston
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If this actually turns out to be true, we're all wasting our times. |
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2010-01-20, 19:48 | Link #1033 | ||||
Homo Ludens
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 34
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Futhermore, I don't see what trick Ryu07 could possibly pull that would explain Ep6's red without resorting to Shkannon. If the implication is that "someone doesn't exist", given the current evidence we have, Shkannon is the only result we can come to. It may not make much sense, but it makes more sense than any other impersonation trick I can think of. Quote:
...Actually... was Battler with the cousins the whole time during Ep4's family conference? Quote:
Since Battler isn't around, I can see her suffering rather a lot. Quote:
Battler's first-person narration, while not ever-present, has been around since the very beginning of Ep1. In fact, most of Ep1 is seen through his eyes. |
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2010-01-20, 20:51 | Link #1034 | |
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Shannontrice doesn't require her to be the killer, and it doesn't require her to be Kanon, but it still makes sense if she's the girl who waited for Battler or something. She also has a lot of the opportunity for pranks and magic circles and whatnot. It stands on its own. Shannon as culprit is similar. She has opportunity to kill people. She has some associations with people who might be shady. If Kanon isn't Shannon, she could have him as an accomplice. Stands on its own about as well as any other plausible culprit theory. Shkanon... gives us what by itself, exactly? There's no rhyme or reason to it. Even if you insist I must believe in it, why precisely should I give a hoot about it when it has no relevance unto itself? Woo-wee, so two people are one person. And I ask immediately... so what? What does that mean? What does that give us except two answers, one of which was a question raised in ep6? It doesn't stand on its own. It's just there, and we don't really know why any more now than we did when people were theorizing it before. That was always one of the biggest criticisms of it then; why? It's still true now. But what really damns it in my mind is that it doesn't help when combined with the other theories either. It doesn't seem to help Shannontrice at all. So Shannon is Beatrice. Okay. She's also Kanon (or vice-versa). ...so? That doesn't give me any clearer picture of why she's Beatrice. And now I have to ask why she's also Kanon. It's a mess. And with Shannon as culprit, it doesn't help either. Okay, you say, she has two identities. Great? She can still only be one of them at a time. She can put suspicion on Kanon and make him vanish, or fake Shannon's death, but she still has to deal with acting on her own. Her imaginary friend or split personality can't kill for her. And whenever she's unaccounted for, so is Kanon, so it doesn't help establish an alibi. If anything, Shkanon just makes her job harder if she's the killer. Not only does she have to kill people, now she has to pose as two distinct individuals for the survivors, establish an alibi for each, and pose as the other when one of them is "killed" instead of just faking a single death with a single identity and moving about entirely unexpected. It's counterproductive. So... why should I care if Shkanon is true? What does it add to the narrative? What does it add to the mysteries? What does it add to other Shannon-centric theories? Why is it a necessary condition to believing one of the other theories anyway? And if it isn't, why is it in the story at all? |
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2010-01-20, 22:13 | Link #1035 |
Homo Ludens
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 34
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...Actually, I'd like to retract my previous statement about Shkannon being the only way for someone not actually existing to be presented.
What I always found somewhat strange about Umineko is how the narration constantly jumps between first and third-person. It seemed pointless... except now we know that only the detective's narration is truly objective. If, say, there was a person that's only ever talked about in third-person narration and never in Battler's first, then, well... that person might well not even exist at all. This is far more subtle and brilliant than Shkannon... now, if only we could figure out who that person might be and if there even is a person that exists only in third-person narration. |
2010-01-20, 22:18 | Link #1036 | |
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2010-01-20, 22:23 | Link #1037 | ||
Homo Ludens
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 34
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Could be related to this concept. Quote:
And yes, an(other) impersonator is very much possible with this theory. ...I'm going to have to play Ep1 again. |
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2010-01-20, 22:27 | Link #1038 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: My Desk
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Has anyone thought up the idea of Skhanon being One person split into two people?
Renall is pretty much saying Split personalty is pointless because it will just be more of a disadvantage than anything else. Another thing is when you solve the riddle and become Shannontrice do you turn !Meta then leave the game board. Do you turn !Meta while leaving behind a piece-version as you non the wiser? Or is Piece!Shannon and Meta!Shannon the same person for that Ep until she World Hops?
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2010-01-20, 22:44 | Link #1039 |
Homo Ludens
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 34
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Shouldn't matter for the person count.
In any case, I just went over a bit of Ep1, and unfortunately I think everyone is introduced in first-person. Tch. Well, I have yet to find evidence that Kanon or Shannon isn't pretending to be Kumasawa, but that has the exact same problems as the Shkannon theory. |
2010-01-21, 01:05 | Link #1040 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
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Quote:
"......That's why, in exchange for letting me borrow that, I made you a witch. .........If I stop being your guardian, you'll immediately go back to being a human. ...Make sure you don't forget that, no matter how much incredible magical power you hold, ......you are nothing more than a temporary witch." (...) "............Because originally, you weren't even a witch, and at any time, I'll remind you what a truly shabby creature you were. ............If you betray my expectations. At that time, you can look forward to a fun, fun punishment game. In the world of billions of kakera, ......I'll send you into the most miserable kakera and seal you there. .........You were miserable in the first place, so it'll really be worth choosing a miserable kakera."
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