AnimeSuki Forums

MrProphet · 2006-07-18, 11:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by arias

Anyone have an idea when Splti will be released as a single?

August 23

http://www.cdjapan.co.jp/detailview.html?KEY=ESCL-2861

brightredglow · 2006-07-18, 12:20

Before I write anything else, I have to take a moment to thank to Solar and Ide for their great work on the fansub. There is just a classy polish to the work that I totally appreciate.

But now to episode 3!

Spoiler for not really a spoiler since the fansub is out, but these tags help save space for wordy people like me!:

My top three favorite characters are: 1) Ayu; 2) Takemoto; and 3) Nomiya. When I first sat down and started watching H&C, I never would have thought Nomiya would be in the top 5, but he won me over pretty fast. He is criticized for being confident, even smug, but I liked him immediately for that confidence because it creates a lovely juxtaposition in that as attractive as he is for most women, it was clear from the start that he was in over his head with Ayu.

Episode 3 is a showcase for Nomiya and in a way, Ayu as well, so it will probably go down as my favorite H&C episode.

The things I liked:
--The ordinary conversations. H&C has none of the hip flash or high voltage drama of NANA, but it does one thing that NANA doesn't. It allows for ordinary convos to have great impact. Yamazaki and Nomiya on the dunes is a perfect example. Yamazaki, for all his awkwardness, says something simple, undramatic but true and gets Nomiya out of the rut he's put himself in.
--Ayu's growth. Last ep, I complained about the whole "Mayama no baka" being old. This ep came as a welcome surprise. I too am a little worried that Ayu's edge will be softened but I'll put that worry on the backburner because here, the edge isn't needed. Her growth is needed and she is showing that her mindset is changing from child to adult. Ayu might be putting herself through the shredder by working with Rika and Mayama but it is allowing her character to evolve (or "revolve" as Takemoto said) into something better. This comes through in her dealings with Mayama. Yes, she is still in love with him but it shows her growth that she lets him speak about Rika without interruption. And that she hides her tears for later. It may hurt her but it also shows that she cares. I also like how the episode is showing that in her own way, she cares about Rika too.
--Nomiya. Others might say his entrance was cliched and he was just a plot device, but even if that is true, I still unabashedly love Nomiya and I agree with Kaoru Chujo who said on the manga thread that he seems to have taken on a life of his own. Here, we see Nomiya's armor come off. He's supposed to be the ideal Mayama but here, he becomes more like Takemoto in that he lays his feelings out even though he suspects that the only reward for his bravery will be his loved one's happiness even if he isn't the cause for it. As Miwako said, "He's become more manly." To that I say, "Oh yeah."
--The insert song. I was wrong. I do like Koro ni iru Koto after all. Once I saw the lyrics, it fit. It totally fit.
--The unicorns so fit as Ayu's protectors. One of things I love best about Ayu is that she is a beauty but she isn't a refined one because her background isn't and the unicorns, pastel and pretty but with the mouths of sailors, was a brilliant match.

I don't have much that I didn't like about this episode. I even liked Mayama. That might be because the more I learn about Harada, the more empathy I have for Mayama. Even if he does get Rika, Harada's shadow will loom large. This was the first episode where I really felt for Mayama and his feelings for Rika.

Another excellently done episode. It looks like this season is carrying on the quality of the first and I look forward to more.

kokujin_2000 · 2006-07-18, 12:57

I know the discussion has shifted back toward the op/ed music, but as to the type of anime this could be viewed.
It's easy to say it's Josei but at the same time it's Seinen.
Because understanding the emotional pains of real love for young men is around 19-22 yrs old.
Plus getting to know one's self before we can be truly comfortable as an adult is a battle fought by young men and women alike.

Hope to be back in the US so I can watch season 2 soon. It's killing me.

k.

Grifis · 2006-07-18, 15:22

It's definitely not seinen. Seinen like shonen has little emphasis on romance.

MrProphet · 2006-07-18, 16:42

I think there is a tad less difference in audience between seinen and josei than between shounen and shoujo.

For the most part, young men and women at that age don't have interests that are as highly differentiated as their younger counterparts.

And this thread ampty demonstrates that just enough of the male fandom enjoys Hachikuro.

wintermoon · 2006-07-18, 20:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by brightredglow

--Nomiya. Others might say his entrance was cliched and he was just a plot device, but even if that is true, I still unabashedly love Nomiya and I agree with Kaoru Chujo who said on the manga thread that he seems to have taken on a life of his own. Here, we see Nomiya's armor come off. He's supposed to be the ideal Mayama but here, he becomes more like Takemoto in that he lays his feelings out even though he suspects that the only reward for his bravery will be his loved one's happiness even if he isn't the cause for it. As Miwako said, "He's become more manly." To that I say, "Oh yeah."

Amen to that! When I saw season 1, I didn't think Nomiya was all that bad. I felt the way Mayama did—I respected him, even though I wasn't sure about Nomiya's motives. Perhaps he was introduced in order to highlight Mayama's imperfection and immaturity, but I didn't mind this at all for some reason. Maybe because I felt that, this being HachiKuro, they would eventually show a more human side to him. Sure enough, the fact that Nomiya's not as secure and confident as he makes himself out to be makes him even more likeable and human (therefore relatable) to me. It also helps that with this latest ep, we now know what he thinks. It adds another dimension to and insight into his character. I was not expecting him to be the next one to break out of the mold and grow up, after Takemoto.

Regarding Mayama...as someone who values her privacy I would be a bit creeped out by someone looking at my browser history, among other things. But this time I can excuse Mayama for doing this because it's obvious he wants to know more about Rika in order to help her from destroying herself. His methods may be a bit iffy but I do admire the guy's tenacity and desire to bring happiness to the woman he loves. In this, he and Nomiya are truly alike.

arias · 2006-07-18, 21:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by brightredglow

Spoiler for not really a spoiler since the fansub is out, but these tags help save space for wordy people like me!:

Just when I thought I got into the flow and was going to calmly accept all things that come in H&C, I read this sort of post that makes me want to puke : p Such lack of precision that distorts my more complex and holistic view of the H&C author and Nomiya. Sabishi ne.. when there is no one on the board that takes the time to read, or have the capacity to understand your writing.

Even then, I think after my midterm tomorrow I'll sit back and watch H&C seriously and give the creators a chance to take me wherever they want to go. I hope it's a good place.

And thanks for the date, Prophet. August 23 is really abit too late, though.. : (

Grifis · 2006-07-18, 21:42

Saw ep 3. I have to say I really enjoyed it. Love how Nomiya is being honest with himself and finally confesses to Yamada. He's such a sweetheart and is quite a catch. My inclination toward him is increasing. He's a favorite right after Morita now. Yamada should really open her eyes and see the gem in the palm of her hands. The unicorns are great. I LOL at the end when they chase the train. Wonderful stuff.

brightredglow · 2006-07-18, 23:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by arias

Just when I thought I got into the flow and was going to calmly accept all things that come in H&C, I read this sort of post that makes me want to puke : p Such lack of precision that distorts my more complex and holistic view of the H&C author and Nomiya. Sabishi ne.. when there is no one on the board that takes the time to read, or have the capacity to understand your writing.

I beg your pardon? Please explain the comment above. I'd like to have examples on how I too can acquire such complex and holistic views as you. Hopefully, though, I can temper such enlightenment with tact and manners.

It is one thing to disagree with an opinion, but there was no call for you to be rude about it.

wintermoon · 2006-07-18, 23:51

Arias, I'm sure you know there are many ways by which one can read and interpret HachiKuro. In literary criticism you can apply a number of theories to a text, and it's the same with this series. You have a different take on HachiKuro—which seems to be loosely based on authorial intent—and have raised some valid points in the manga thread, which I think is great. I respect you for it and find myself agreeing with some of your points. But surely you're aware that it's just one way of examining the text? If others choose to interpret HachiKuro without taking the author/creator into consideration, or if they prefer to base their interpretations on their life experiences, then that's their choice. There's nothing wrong with this imo.

But saying things like how somebody's opinion makes you want to "puke" is uncalled for. If others choose to disagree with you and go with their own interpretation, then don't let them "distort" your POV. But please, don't imply that the rest of us are far beneath your intellect for not agreeing with it.

fizzer123 · 2006-07-19, 06:52

Episode three was great! I loved the piano version of fugainiya. The unicorns were a good laugh. I wonder if the lion and the duck will show up sometime later?
Anyway, i think the series is starting to become more about a romance...which is not exactly what I was hoping for; I thought it would continue Takemoto's life journey (or has he finished?).

physics223 · 2006-07-19, 08:43

Am I the only one who cried at the scene while Koko ni Iru Koto was played? Alongside ep24 of the first season, it was just when I felt the beauty of this anime series. The melancholic yet hopeful tone was quite apt for the scene itself. All is not lost. As Ernest Hemingway said from his short story The Three-Day Blow said, 'Nothing was finished. Nothing was ever lost.'

Furudanuki · 2006-07-19, 16:40

I enjoyed this episode thoroughly. The cute but bellicose unicorns were an inspired touch both for the symbolism and the comic relief. Unfortunately, my two girls (7 & 4) came into my office to say goodnight while the scene with the unicorns chasing the train was playing. I wound up spending the next fifteen minutes having to explain that Honey and Clover is not anything at all like "My Little Pony". My wife (who was no help at all, I might add) may even let me live it down eventually... Maybe.

physics223 · 2006-07-19, 17:55

So your little girls may think your some loli-lover because of the 'cute little ponies.' But at least they didn't catch you watching something like NHK ni Youkoso!. I can simply imagine: 'daddy, what's that nun doing moving in her bed!?'

Harhar. LAWL.

fli_guy84 · 2006-07-19, 18:24

Although Nomiya-san is nice and all, I still think Mayama-san is still the best for Ayu :P

MrProphet · 2006-07-19, 20:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by fli_guy84

Although Nomiya-san is nice and all, I still think Mayama-san is still the best for Ayu :P

But is he?

Ayu might think he is her destined man, yet the reality is pretty harsh. Mayama cannot or will not dedicate himself to Yamada at this time. And with the way things are developing with Rika, I somehow doubt he'll ever will.

Nomiya is the opposite right now. He is ready to make Ayu happy. He wants to. While for Mayama, with all of his bright spots, Ayu is just not the person whom he can devote himself.

It's just a question of what Ayu wants. The unrequited love of her life (which could prove to be misguided) or a person who truly loves her, is devoted to her and wants to make her happy? Add that to the fact that Yamada is seriously considering Nomiya, and I am just not sure at all whether sticking hopelessly with Mayama is a way to go.

arias · 2006-07-19, 22:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by brightredglow

I beg your pardon? Please explain the comment above. I'd like to have examples on how I too can acquire such complex and holistic views as you. Hopefully, though, I can temper such enlightenment with tact and manners.

It is one thing to disagree with an opinion, but there was no call for you to be rude about it.

Excuse me? Do you think I remotely care about your emotional reaction? There's no call for you to demand anything from me as well, child.

My concern was that you misrepresented my comment, and you did. Whether you can acquire "complex and holistic" views is none of my concern -- you did not display such a capacity nor any such density in your post. Oh yeah, go on about your tirade about tact and manners.. I care.

Grifis · 2006-07-19, 22:32

arias, you should care because it makes you look really bad now. You sound like a child. (Never mind, you don't care about others because apparently they're below you.) If I recall correctly there's something about no insult to another forum member.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrProphet

But is he?

Ayu might think he is her destined man, yet the reality is pretty harsh. Mayama cannot or will not dedicate himself to Yamada at this time. And with the way things are developing with Rika, I somehow doubt he'll ever will.

Nomiya is the opposite right now. He is ready to make Ayu happy. He wants to. While for Mayama, with all of his bright spots, Ayu is just not the person whom he can devote himself.

It's just a question of what Ayu wants. The unrequited love of her life (which could prove to be misguided) or a person who truly loves her, is devoted to her and wants to make her happy? Add that to the fact that Yamada is seriously considering Nomiya, and I am just not sure at all whether sticking hopelessly with Mayama is a way to go.

Obviously sticking with Mayama is not the way to go. It is even unrealistic to stick to an unrequited love like the way Yamada does. (Really she has enough lamenting. It's about time to move on with our lives.) After knowing Nomiya's feelings, it is unreal for Yamada to not consider him. (Then again this is just a fiction, it's not supposed to be real.)

Noodlehead · 2006-07-19, 22:59

Aw, I'm a little bit disappointed that this season seems to be focusing almost entirely on the romance aspect of Honey & Clover as opposed to the "coming-of-age journey" that the last one was. That's what I liked so much about the original series.

Where was Takemoto, Morita, Shuuji, or Hagu in this episode? It's like they all randomly disappeared...

For some reason I can't get myself attached to any of the romantic pairings. I like the characters, but I feel indifferent about the couples. I really want to see some Morita x Ayu friendship moments, but I don't know if that's going to happen...

Was I the only one freaked out by Rika's blank-looking reddish eyes in that scene where she told Harada she was "almost done"? Instead of feeling sentimental or touched, I just went, "whoa." lol.

~ Noodlehead

wintermoon · 2006-07-19, 23:30

I forgot to bring this up, and I have to ask—unless there's a technical glitch in the episode, Nomiya sounds like he's having two different threads of thought going on. There's a distinct difference in sound, and surely that's deliberate, right? He did seem contradictory during the monologue, wanting Ayu to be with him and at the same time just wanting to be there for her. Unless I'm missing something.

2006-07-18, 23:51	Link #210
wintermoon Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2006	Arias, I'm sure you know there are many ways by which one can read and interpret HachiKuro. In literary criticism you can apply a number of theories to a text, and it's the same with this series. You have a different take on HachiKuro—which seems to be loosely based on authorial intent—and have raised some valid points in the manga thread, which I think is great. I respect you for it and find myself agreeing with some of your points. But surely you're aware that it's just one way of examining the text? If others choose to interpret HachiKuro without taking the author/creator into consideration, or if they prefer to base their interpretations on their life experiences, then that's their choice. There's nothing wrong with this imo. But saying things like how somebody's opinion makes you want to "puke" is uncalled for. If others choose to disagree with you and go with their own interpretation, then don't let them "distort" your POV. But please, don't imply that the rest of us are far beneath your intellect for not agreeing with it. Last edited by wintermoon; 2006-07-19 at 00:02.

2006-07-19, 08:43	Link #212
physics223 In the Tatami Galaxy ↓ Join Date: Feb 2006	Am I the only one who cried at the scene while Koko ni Iru Koto was played? Alongside ep24 of the first season, it was just when I felt the beauty of this anime series. The melancholic yet hopeful tone was quite apt for the scene itself. All is not lost. As Ernest Hemingway said from his short story The Three-Day Blow said, 'Nothing was finished. Nothing was ever lost.' __________________ anime\|otaku - hypotheses, analyses, and musings on The Tatami Galaxy \|\| The REAL first handheld console with color!

2006-07-19, 17:55	Link #214
physics223 In the Tatami Galaxy ↓ Join Date: Feb 2006	So your little girls may think your some loli-lover because of the 'cute little ponies.' But at least they didn't catch you watching something like NHK ni Youkoso!. I can simply imagine: 'daddy, what's that nun doing moving in her bed!?' Harhar. LAWL. __________________ anime\|otaku - hypotheses, analyses, and musings on The Tatami Galaxy \|\| The REAL first handheld console with color!

2006-07-18, 12:20	Link #202
brightredglow Member Join Date: Jan 2006	Before I write anything else, I have to take a moment to thank to Solar and Ide for their great work on the fansub. There is just a classy polish to the work that I totally appreciate. But now to episode 3! Spoiler for not really a spoiler since the fansub is out, but these tags help save space for wordy people like me!: My top three favorite characters are: 1) Ayu; 2) Takemoto; and 3) Nomiya. When I first sat down and started watching H&C, I never would have thought Nomiya would be in the top 5, but he won me over pretty fast. He is criticized for being confident, even smug, but I liked him immediately for that confidence because it creates a lovely juxtaposition in that as attractive as he is for most women, it was clear from the start that he was in over his head with Ayu. Episode 3 is a showcase for Nomiya and in a way, Ayu as well, so it will probably go down as my favorite H&C episode. The things I liked: --The ordinary conversations. H&C has none of the hip flash or high voltage drama of NANA, but it does one thing that NANA doesn't. It allows for ordinary convos to have great impact. Yamazaki and Nomiya on the dunes is a perfect example. Yamazaki, for all his awkwardness, says something simple, undramatic but true and gets Nomiya out of the rut he's put himself in. --Ayu's growth. Last ep, I complained about the whole "Mayama no baka" being old. This ep came as a welcome surprise. I too am a little worried that Ayu's edge will be softened but I'll put that worry on the backburner because here, the edge isn't needed. Her growth is needed and she is showing that her mindset is changing from child to adult. Ayu might be putting herself through the shredder by working with Rika and Mayama but it is allowing her character to evolve (or "revolve" as Takemoto said) into something better. This comes through in her dealings with Mayama. Yes, she is still in love with him but it shows her growth that she lets him speak about Rika without interruption. And that she hides her tears for later. It may hurt her but it also shows that she cares. I also like how the episode is showing that in her own way, she cares about Rika too. --Nomiya. Others might say his entrance was cliched and he was just a plot device, but even if that is true, I still unabashedly love Nomiya and I agree with Kaoru Chujo who said on the manga thread that he seems to have taken on a life of his own. Here, we see Nomiya's armor come off. He's supposed to be the ideal Mayama but here, he becomes more like Takemoto in that he lays his feelings out even though he suspects that the only reward for his bravery will be his loved one's happiness even if he isn't the cause for it. As Miwako said, "He's become more manly." To that I say, "Oh yeah." --The insert song. I was wrong. I do like Koro ni iru Koto after all. Once I saw the lyrics, it fit. It totally fit. --The unicorns so fit as Ayu's protectors. One of things I love best about Ayu is that she is a beauty but she isn't a refined one because her background isn't and the unicorns, pastel and pretty but with the mouths of sailors, was a brilliant match. I don't have much that I didn't like about this episode. I even liked Mayama. That might be because the more I learn about Harada, the more empathy I have for Mayama. Even if he does get Rika, Harada's shadow will loom large. This was the first episode where I really felt for Mayama and his feelings for Rika. Another excellently done episode. It looks like this season is carrying on the quality of the first and I look forward to more.

2006-07-18, 12:57	Link #203
kokujin_2000 chairman of the board Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Albq, NM Age: 45	I know the discussion has shifted back toward the op/ed music, but as to the type of anime this could be viewed. It's easy to say it's Josei but at the same time it's Seinen. Because understanding the emotional pains of real love for young men is around 19-22 yrs old. Plus getting to know one's self before we can be truly comfortable as an adult is a battle fought by young men and women alike. Hope to be back in the US so I can watch season 2 soon. It's killing me. k.

2006-07-18, 15:22	Link #204
Grifis Eternal Dreamer Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Caladan	It's definitely not seinen. Seinen like shonen has little emphasis on romance.

2006-07-18, 16:42	Link #205
MrProphet The Commissar Vanishes Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Tallinn, Estonia Age: 41	I think there is a tad less difference in audience between seinen and josei than between shounen and shoujo. For the most part, young men and women at that age don't have interests that are as highly differentiated as their younger counterparts. And this thread ampty demonstrates that just enough of the male fandom enjoys Hachikuro.

2006-07-18, 21:42	Link #208
Grifis Eternal Dreamer Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Caladan	Saw ep 3. I have to say I really enjoyed it. Love how Nomiya is being honest with himself and finally confesses to Yamada. He's such a sweetheart and is quite a catch. My inclination toward him is increasing. He's a favorite right after Morita now. Yamada should really open her eyes and see the gem in the palm of her hands. The unicorns are great. I LOL at the end when they chase the train. Wonderful stuff.

2006-07-19, 06:52	Link #211
fizzer123 Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2006	Episode three was great! I loved the piano version of fugainiya. The unicorns were a good laugh. I wonder if the lion and the duck will show up sometime later? Anyway, i think the series is starting to become more about a romance...which is not exactly what I was hoping for; I thought it would continue Takemoto's life journey (or has he finished?).

2006-07-19, 16:40	Link #213
Furudanuki Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: State of denial Age: 66	I enjoyed this episode thoroughly. The cute but bellicose unicorns were an inspired touch both for the symbolism and the comic relief. Unfortunately, my two girls (7 & 4) came into my office to say goodnight while the scene with the unicorns chasing the train was playing. I wound up spending the next fifteen minutes having to explain that Honey and Clover is not anything at all like "My Little Pony". My wife (who was no help at all, I might add) may even let me live it down eventually... Maybe.

2006-07-19, 18:24	Link #215
fli_guy84 Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2006	Although Nomiya-san is nice and all, I still think Mayama-san is still the best for Ayu :P

2006-07-19, 22:59	Link #219
Noodlehead Noodlehead is not edible. Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Canada Age: 33	Aw, I'm a little bit disappointed that this season seems to be focusing almost entirely on the romance aspect of Honey & Clover as opposed to the "coming-of-age journey" that the last one was. That's what I liked so much about the original series. Where was Takemoto, Morita, Shuuji, or Hagu in this episode? It's like they all randomly disappeared... For some reason I can't get myself attached to any of the romantic pairings. I like the characters, but I feel indifferent about the couples. I really want to see some Morita x Ayu friendship moments, but I don't know if that's going to happen... Was I the only one freaked out by Rika's blank-looking reddish eyes in that scene where she told Harada she was "almost done"? Instead of feeling sentimental or touched, I just went, "whoa." lol. ~ Noodlehead

2006-07-19, 23:30	Link #220
wintermoon Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2006	I forgot to bring this up, and I have to ask—unless there's a technical glitch in the episode, Nomiya sounds like he's having two different threads of thought going on. There's a distinct difference in sound, and surely that's deliberate, right? He did seem contradictory during the monologue, wanting Ayu to be with him and at the same time just wanting to be there for her. Unless I'm missing something.