The Genderbending of Haruhi Suzumiya [Spoilers Aplenty]

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by CrowKenobi

Quite good!

Apart from one pronoun being wrong (and perhaps too many "onee-chans") you did a good job of integrating all the "stuff" into it... except we need a line where she puts the ribbon in her hair somewhere (and Haruki has to make a comment upon it).

Which pronoun?

I'll leave the onee-chan thing to the editors... I still think it best represents how Mitsuuru still thinks of Kyon-chan...

And she hasn't put the ribbon in her hair yet. She hasn't had time yet, and promptly forgets about it, what with all she has to deal with (Haruki). She's going to get the ponytail back at the end of the volume, don't worry.

[Aebliss]

Originally Posted by CrowKenobi

Quite good!

Apart from one pronoun being wrong (and perhaps too many "onee-chans") you did a good job of integrating all the "stuff" into it... except we need a line where she puts the ribbon in her hair somewhere (and Haruki has to make a comment upon it).

About the ribbon -- what is its significance going to be, other than 'an item out of time'?

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by Aebliss

About the ribbon -- what is its significance going to be, other than 'an item out of time'?

Just a convenient way to get a certain line out of Haruki at the end of chapter 7, when Kyon-chan starts wearing the ponytail again.

Also, the yellow ribbon is reminiscent of Haruhi, so there's that too.

I might set up the time loop later, though. "Later" as in "a volume that the author hasn't even written yet."

[Aebliss]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

Just a convenient way to get a certain line out of Haruki at the end of chapter 7, when Kyon-chan starts wearing the ponytail again.

Also, the yellow ribbon is reminiscent of Haruhi, so there's that too.

I might set up the time loop later, though. "Later" as in "a volume that the author hasn't even written yet."

It'd be a trip if the ribbon was completely 'an item out of time', a paradox in and of itself, coming to adult Mitsuuru because Kyon gave it to him, who only had it to give because she received it from adult Mitsuuru. Its origin would then be some grim necessity.

Spoiler for Ribbon scenario:

Imagine some situation where the SOS Brigade needs a vast amount of energy, perhaps to escape from the Canopy Domain's manor during the snow mountain chapter, in addition to Nagato's exit formula.
Kyon: "But where do we find that much power? The electricity net doesn't carry that much! It's hopeless!"
Itsuko: "Kyon-chan ... Don't you know?"
Kyon: "Know what?"
Itsuko: "That ribbon of yours. I've always been able to feel it. It's brimming with enough power to bring down the whole mountain, if anyone unsealed it carelessly. I've always admired the calm and cool way you wear a container of nearly uncontrollable, chaotic force so close to you."
Kyon: "..... !"

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by Aebliss

It'd be a trip if the ribbon was completely 'an item out of time', a paradox in and of itself, coming to adult Mitsuuru because Kyon gave it to him, who only had it to give because she received it from adult Mitsuuru. Its origin would then be some grim necessity.

Spoiler for Ribbon scenario:

Imagine some situation where the SOS Brigade needs a vast amount of energy, perhaps to escape from the Canopy Domain's manor during the snow mountain chapter, in addition to Nagato's exit formula.
Kyon: "But where do we find that much power? The electricity net doesn't carry that much! It's hopeless!"
Itsuko: "Kyon-chan ... Don't you know?"
Kyon: "Know what?"
Itsuko: "That ribbon of yours. I've always been able to feel it. It's brimming with enough power to bring down the whole mountain, if anyone unsealed it carelessly. I've always admired the calm and cool way you wear a container of nearly uncontrollable, chaotic force so close to you."
Kyon: "..... !"

Yes, exactly. It's an item that has no real origin in time, like that story about the watch. Of course, it still follows self-consistency.

And that is an awesome idea, although I'm kinda in favor of the ribbon just being a ribbon.

[DJ_RockmanX]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

Yes, exactly. It's an item that has no real origin in time, like that story about the watch. Of course, it still follows self-consistency.

And that is an awesome idea, although I'm kinda in favor of the ribbon just being a ribbon.

Overcomplicating things that really need not be overcomplicated is silly.

[Aebliss]

Originally Posted by DJ_RockmanX

Overcomplicating things that really need not be overcomplicated is silly.

And fun.

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

Yes, exactly. It's an item that has no real origin in time, like that story about the watch. Of course, it still follows self-consistency.

And that is an awesome idea, although I'm kinda in favor of the ribbon just being a ribbon.

What story about what watch? And thanks for the compliment. ^^

[walviss]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

Just a convenient way to get a certain line out of Haruki at the end of chapter 7, when Kyon-chan starts wearing the ponytail again.

Also, the yellow ribbon is reminiscent of Haruhi, so there's that too.

I might set up the time loop later, though. "Later" as in "a volume that the author hasn't even written yet."

I just wanted to offer my opinion that Kyonko should wake up in closed space with the ponytail. Maybe you're doing that anyways, but it sounds like you want to give Kyon's line from the source to Haruki, which means Kyonko won't have it at the time. Then Haruki gives her a hairband afterwards? Forgive me if I'm getting it wrong, but my impression is that this is your plan.

I think it's a reasonable course of action to write it that way, but I personally don't think Kyon's ponytail moe (or the line for that matter, which I think should be replaced) should just be transferred to Haruki. However, even if I think Haruki shouldn't have a ponytail moe, he should have "Jane Smith" moe (subconsciously), and the ponytail would be part of that. So I would expect Kyonko to wake up in closed space dressed and coifed in the manner Haruki pictures her, since he is building his new, ideal world after all.

[Roger Rambo]

Mitsuru(Big) adding milk to the tea without being asked?

Hmmmm, Mitsuru must want Kyonko to get bigger

[CrowKenobi]

Originally Posted by walviss

I think it's a reasonable course of action to write it that way, but I personally don't think Kyon's ponytail moe (or the line for that matter, which I think should be replaced) should just be transferred to Haruki. However, even if I think Haruki shouldn't have a ponytail moe, he should have "Jane Smith" moe (subconsciously), and the ponytail would be part of that. So I would expect Kyonko to wake up in closed space dressed and coifed in the manner Haruki pictures her, since he is building his new, ideal world after all.

Which means the Kyonko ends up with two yellow ribbons!



Edit: Kaisos:

The future Asahina-senpai must have returned to her distant future, and then spent a few years there, before reuniting with me on this “time plane” again.

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by Aebliss

What story about what watch? And thanks for the compliment. ^^

You're welcome.

Spoiler for the watch story:

Here's an interesting idea I once read about on the B-T forums that illustrates predestination paradoxes (although I also suggest reading All You Zombies as well for an especially good example).

Let's say you manage to invent a time machine. You jump forward 30 years and the first thing you see is a snazzy watch lying on a table. You snatch it and jump back to your own time.

30 years later, you are now the proud owner of said snazzy watch. One day, it goes missing mysteriously, and suddenly, you realize: You stole the watch from your future self 30 years ago.

Now, the real question here is: Where did the watch come from in first place?

Originally Posted by walviss

I just wanted to offer my opinion that Kyonko should wake up in closed space with the ponytail. Maybe you're doing that anyways, but it sounds like you want to give Kyon's line from the source to Haruki, which means Kyonko won't have it at the time. Then Haruki gives her a hairband afterwards? Forgive me if I'm getting it wrong, but my impression is that this is your plan.

I think it's a reasonable course of action to write it that way, but I personally don't think Kyon's ponytail moe (or the line for that matter, which I think should be replaced) should just be transferred to Haruki. However, even if I think Haruki shouldn't have a ponytail moe, he should have "Jane Smith" moe (subconsciously), and the ponytail would be part of that. So I would expect Kyonko to wake up in closed space dressed and coifed in the manner Haruki pictures her, since he is building his new, ideal world after all.

Kyon-chan does indeed wake up in Closed Space with a ponytail. However, Haruki does not deliver the line then. Kyon-chan delivers a different line in Closed Space that has much the same effect.

The next morning, Kyon-chan, feeling miserable for having snogged Haruki, remembers about the ribbon Mitsuuru gave her and ties her hair up once again. She goes to school, intent on ignoring Haruki, but he ends up complimenting her when she arrives, delivering what was originally Kyon's line:

"You look great in that ponytail."

Originally Posted by Roger Rambo

Mitsuru(Big) adding milk to the tea without being asked?

Hmmmm, Mitsuru must want Kyonko to get bigger

Yeah, exactly. That's exactly it.

Originally Posted by CrowKenobi

Edit: Kaisos:

Thanks for pointing that out.

[DJ_RockmanX]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

Spoiler for the watch story:

Here's an interesting idea I once read about on the B-T forums that illustrates predestination paradoxes (although I also suggest reading All You Zombies as well for an especially good example).

Let's say you manage to invent a time machine. You jump forward 30 years and the first thing you see is a snazzy watch lying on a table. You snatch it and jump back to your own time.

30 years later, you are now the proud owner of said snazzy watch. One day, it goes missing mysteriously, and suddenly, you realize: You stole the watch from your future self 30 years ago.

Now, the real question here is: Where did the watch come from in first place?

Ahh. Mind rape.

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by DJ_RockmanX

Ahh. Mind rape.

Think that's bad?

Spoiler for All You Zombies (direct from Wikipedia):

The story involves an intricate series of time-travel journeys, making it difficult to describe the exact order of events. It begins with a young man speaking to an older one, the Bartender (and narrator), in 1970. The younger one is called the Unmarried Mother, because he writes "True Confessions" pieces for magazines about unmarried mothers.

Carefully cajoled by the Bartender, he tells how he understands the female viewpoint so well. He was born a girl, in 1945 and raised in an orphanage. As a fairly ugly teenager, in 1963 he (then she) was seduced and impregnated by an older man who then left her. During childbirth doctors discovered that she had an intersex condition: internally, she had both male and female sex organs. Complications in the birth forced them to give her a sex change; and the baby was later kidnapped and never seen again. The former girl was sent out to make his way as a man, despite being uneducated for any job. As a girl he/she had preferred etiquette lessons, hoping to join an organization dedicated to providing "comfort and companionship" to astronauts, known at various times by the elaborate acronyms "W.E.N.C.H.E.S" (Women's Emergency National Corps, Hospitality & Entertainment Section), "A.N.G.E.L.S." (Auxiliary Nursing Group, Extraterrestrial Legions), and "W.H.O.R.E.S" (Women's Hospitality Order Refortifying & Encouraging Spacemen). Handicapped by this and the physical after-effects of the birth, he used his secretarial skills to type manuscripts, and eventually began writing for himself.

Professing sympathy, the Bartender offers to top his story. He guides him into a back room, and casts a net over the two of them. This is part of a time-machine. The young man is set loose in 1963 where he dates, falls for, seduces, impregnates, and leaves a young girl; at the same time the Bartender goes forward nine months, kidnaps a baby and takes it to an orphanage in 1945. He then returns to 1963, and picks up the Unmarried Mother, who is just beginning to realize what has happened. As the Bartender tells him, "Now you know who he is—and after you think it over you'll know who you are . . . and if you think hard enough, you'll figure out who the baby is . . . and who I am."

The Bartender then drops the Unmarried Mother, actually his younger self, at an outpost of the Temporal Bureau, a time-traveling secret police force that fixes events in history, such as making sure that a nuclear war is so bungled that it does not destroy humanity. He has just recruited himself.

Finally the Bartender returns to 1970, arriving a short time after he left the bar. He yells at a customer playing "I'm My Own Grandpa" on the jukebox. Closing the bar he time-travels again to his home base. As he beds down for a much-deserved rest, he contemplates the scar left over from the Caesarean section performed when he gave birth to his daughter, father, mother and entire history. He thinks "I know where I came from—but where did all you zombies come from?", possibly referring to his other selves, whose actions he observed and directed, or to his audience - the readers.

[walviss]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

Kyon-chan does indeed wake up in Closed Space with a ponytail. However, Haruki does not deliver the line then. Kyon-chan delivers a different line in Closed Space that has much the same effect.

The next morning, Kyon-chan, feeling miserable for having snogged Haruki, remembers about the ribbon Mitsuuru gave her and ties her hair up once again. She goes to school, intent on ignoring Haruki, but he ends up complimenting her when she arrives, delivering what was originally Kyon's line.

Oh, that sounds great then. I was misinterpreting after all

[Discreet]

Those time paradoxes are under the assumption that time paradoxes are only circular. They don't take into account the possibility that the time paradox could either alter time and reality entirely OR have absolutely no effect on it whatsoever, similar to a manner in which Asahina conducts her time travel.

I think.

And I'm gonna be pumping out some edited works now, I got the free time today.

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by Discreet

Those time paradoxes are under the assumption that time paradoxes are only circular. They don't take into account the possibility that the time paradox could either alter time and reality entirely OR have absolutely no effect on it whatsoever, similar to a manner in which Asahina conducts her time travel.

I think.

GAAAAAH!

I've said it like 500 times now: Self-consistency! Those ideas were created with that in mind. Predestination paradox! Self-fulfilling prophecy!

Without self-consistency, MORE paradoxes are created, including ones like the Grandfather Paradox , which destroys the logical universe in its inconsistency.

Time travel in the Haruhi series does not destroy the logical universe. (We think.) Hence, self-consistency. I've said it before, and I'll say it again.

Originally Posted by Discreet

And I'm gonna be pumping out some edited works now, I got the free time today.

Oh good. Thank you.

[Kang Seung Jae]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

Don't you use "senpai" for your seniors/bosses at work, though?

As an example, how Hyatt uses "senpai" to address Excel in Excel Saga.

Hence why I said "person is older/has more experience than you".

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by Kang Seung Jae

Hence why I said "person is older/has more experience than you".

...Bah.

I kept it as "-san" on the BT wiki anyway, so it doesn't matter anymore.

[Discreet]

Chapter 5, Asakura Fight part 1, based on Jintor's edit, changes in bold, one ed note underlined.

Spoiler:

I wasn't at all surprised that someone was waiting inside the classroom, but I was shocked when I found out who it was. Standing in front of the blackboard was someone I had never even considered.

"You're late."

Asakura Ryou smiled at me.

He flicked a strand of hair out of his eyes and started walking down the aisle. He smiled serenely at me with that handsome face.

Is this really a confession after all? Asakura, of all people?

He stopped in the center of the classroom, and waved towards me brightly.

"Come in!"

At the wave of his hand I let go of the door handle and stepped inside the room.

"S-So it's you..."

"Yes, surprised?"

Asakura smiled happily, the right side of his face colored red by the setting sun. My face was red too, though not for the same reason.

"Y-you wanted to talk t-to me?" Dammit, I sound like Asahina-senpai!

Asakura chuckled and replied. "Indeed, I was looking for you. I have something to ask you."

Asakura's pure, pale face as peaceful as the mountaintops now turns towards me.

"Have you heard of the saying 'It is better to do it and regret than not do it at all'? You think that makes sense?"

What is he talking about? "I-I'm not really sure who said that, but I guess the meaning makes… sense…"

"If there exists a situation where staying in the status quo would make things worse, and you have no idea how to improve it, what would you do?"

"Um, improve what?" Is there a confession coming, or…

Ignoring my question, Asakura just smiled and continued,

"Wouldn't you have said that you should do it first and face the consequences later? Since nothing is going to change if things continue like this."

"Um, I-I guess so." What is he trying to say?!

"That's what I meant."

Asakura, who had his hands behind his back, leaned slightly forward.

"However, since those above are incapable of thinking laterally, they are out of touch with the rapid changes in this reality, I'm compelled to do something in order to make things run smoothly. That's why, being in this reality, I have decided to act on my own and forcefully make some changes."

Um, sorry? What on Earth are you trying to say? Is this some sort of prank? I looked around the room, wondering whether Taniguchi is hiding in the cabinet or sitting under the teacher's desk.

"I've grown tired of having to observe a changeless environment, that's why..."

I was so busy looking around that I didn't really hear what Asakura was saying.

"I have to kill you, and see what sort of reaction Suzumiya Haruki will have."

In an instant, Asakura moved his hands from behind his back, and a silvery metallic flash went past where my neck used to be. As I watched my school uniform’s ribbon float slowly towards the ground, I heard the crash of the teacher’s desk collapsing a few feet away.

Smiling pleasantly, Asakura's right hand now held a katana nearly half my height.

I was very, very lucky to dodge the first strike. If I hadn’t, I’d probably have ended up like that desk. Right now, though, I'm on the ground on my backside, looking palely up at Asakura. ‘If I'm trapped, I won't be able to escape!’ was the thought that flashed through my mind, and I crawled backwards like a locust.

Why didn't Asakura chase after me?

...No, wait! What’s going on here? Why is someone as nice and pure as Asakura trying to gut me with a sword? Wait a second what did he just say? He wants to kill me? Kill me? But, why!? Why me!?

"S-stop joking around!" All I could say was that trademark sentence of mine. "T-that’s really dangerous! Even if it were fake, I’d still be really, really scared! Please put that that thing away!"

I was completely lost. Taniguchi, if this is your doing, you’ve gone way too far! Someone please explain this situation to me!

"You think I'm joking?" Asakura said in his normal cheerful tone, not sounding very serious at all. A person casually smiling like that while swinging a sword around would scare anyone. As for me? I was terrified.

"Hmm…”

Asakura let the dull side of the katana rest on his shoulder.

"You don't like dying? You don't want to die? I don’t understand it. The death of organic entities means nothing to me."

I slowly stand up. I had to keep on telling myself that this was just a bad joke, this couldn’t really be happening. Asakura is the serious, responsible class president, who only talked when necessary in class, and faced every problem calmly. He’s every girl’s dream. Why would he wave around a katana and say he wants to kill me all of a sudden?

Yet that sword is real, and I would have been cut in two if I hadn’t been so lucky.

"I-I don't understand what you're saying.” I stuttered. “This isn't funny anymore, OK? So please, just put that scary thing away!"

"I can't do that," Asakura smiled his usual perfect smile, "Because I really want you to die."

He lifted the katana above his head and brought it down.

This time I was prepared, though, and I stumbled back while the desk behind me shattered.

I didn’t waste any time to check for his next move and dashed for the door, but just as I reached it, a wall appeared and I collided into it.

W-what?!

Where’d the door go?! Even the windows are gone! There were supposed to be windows on the wall facing the corridor, but now it's just a thick grey wall.

No way!

"It's useless."

Asakura's voice grew closer from behind.

"I now have control of this area of space, so all exits have been blocked. It's quite easy, really. All I need to do is tamper with the molecular structure of the buildings on this planet and I can change their matter at will. This room has now become a sealed room, there's no way in or out now."

I turned around and noticed that the sunset has gone as well. The whole room is surrounded by concrete walls, leaving only the white lamps shining coldly on the desks.

This can't be! This isn’t possible! What the hell is going on?

Asakura's silhouette moved slowly towards me.

"As your class president, I advise you to stop resisting; you're going to die anyway."

“W-what are you?!”

No matter how I looked, there were walls around me. There's not a single door, a single window, nothing! Is something wrong with my brain?

I frantically moved between the desks, trying to get as far from Asakura as possible. Yet Asakura just walked towards me in a straight line, smashing the desks and chairs aside with a swing or two of that katana. Unlike him, my path was always blocked.

The cat and mouse chase didn't last long, and eventually I was cornered.

Well, if that was how it was going to be, I decided to take a risk and threw a fallen chair at Asakura with all my strength, yet it turned in the air right in front of Asakura, and flew off to the other end of the room.

This is impossible, just impossible!

"Impressive strength for such a little girl, but resistance is futile. Everything in this room now moves according to my will."

Wait... Wait!

“Nothing you do has any meaning. It’s useless.”

What is going on here? If this isn't a joke or a prank, and neither Asakura nor me were crazy, then what’s going on?

I have to kill you, and see what sort of reaction Suzumiya Haruki will have.

Why is it Haruki, again? Aren’t you getting a bit too popular, Haruki?

"How careless of me… I should've done this from the beginning."

After Asakura said those words, my whole body froze in place. H-hey! No fair! That’s cheating!

My feet are rooted to the ground like a tree, unable to move. My arms are fixed like a wax statue - I can't even move my fingers. All I could do was look at Asakura’s face as he slowly approached me.

"Once you die, Suzumiya Haruki is bound to have some sort of reaction. This might create a massive data explosion from which we could salvage something. This could be the chance of a lifetime for us."

I still have no idea what you’re talking about!

“Don’t worry,” he smiled, “It’ll be fun.”

Great. All I wanted was a confession, and now some crazy magic-wielding Haruki-obsessed psycho has got me trapped. Who knows what he could do to me. Actually I do know, I just don’t want to think about it.

“First, let’s improve your appearance a little.” Asakura brought the katana up behind my head. I felt him cut the ribbon holding my hair up, which came down in one smooth motion.

“Ah, there. Much better. You look a lot nicer with your hair down. Makes you look more wild.” Asakura continued to smile kindly at me.

Is this really how my life’ll end? Listening to this wackjob pervert talk about my hair before he kills me or whatever? Just my luck.

< Plz no katana rape, mmkay? It has the otaku stench all over it as Tsuruya would say.

“I suppose your times about up now.”

The perfect student gave me that contently polite smile to me again.

"Now, die."

Asakura lifted the katana above his head again, smiling throughout. Maybe he’d be kind enough to finish me off in one stroke… but at least let me close my eyes… No, I can't even do that.

Wait… w-what’s this now?

I suddenly felt the air shake. As the katana began to lower…

The ceiling gave out a loud cracking noise, followed by debris falling down. Some of which fell on my head - that hurts! Dammit!

I was covered in white dust by the large amount of continuously falling debris. Not like you haven’t already ruined my uniform enough, Asakura… I wanted to see what was happening to him, but I couldn’t move… no, wait! I can move again!?

I lifted my head and discovered…!

A shocked Asakura - just as he’s about to slice me in half. Standing in front of me, catching the blade with just two bare fingers, is the slim figure of Nagato Yuuki.

Concerning the Kyonko rape, I have no real problem with Asakura suggesting it, but I don't really think the actual process of sexually molesting Kyonko is necessary. Reading it just makes me feel dirty and a bit awkward. And really, I can't see any good reason to implement it.

[kaura117]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

GAAAAAH!

I've said it like 500 times now: Self-consistency! Those ideas were created with that in mind. Predestination paradox! Self-fulfilling prophecy!

Without self-consistency, MORE paradoxes are created, including ones like the Grandfather Paradox , which destroys the logical universe in its inconsistency.

Time travel in the Haruhi series does not destroy the logical universe. (We think.) Hence, self-consistency. I've said it before, and I'll say it again.





Oh good. Thank you.

Self-consistency nothing. The Wheeler-Everett interpretation allows time travel without any form of paradox whatsoever, period. It's also less handwavy than the various variants of chronology protection conjecture or the Novikov self-consistency principle. And sliders are pretty much all but confirmed, so it's far more likely that Haruhiverse utilizes the Wheeler-Everett interpretation than anything else.

Edit: Actual molestation isn't necessary- and I don't think Yuuki would allow it~