(L) Toradora! Novel Discussion

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by Tango337

Spoiler for dammit:

How exactly wouldn't it make sense? The scene where they did it wasn't exactly specified but people in love do those things you know. About the marriage, ryuuji apparently proposed to her while they were having the little arguement at the bridge and they will marry after graduation or something. Roan said he was done with this thread so all the summaries he gave are about as much as we'll get for now and we're left with the anime to show us more.

Dammit, spoiler that.

[typhonsentra]

I'll also point out that Roan said they "Might have" done it. It's hard to know what he meant by that but it's probably the way they leave a scene with them acting intimate/lovey dovey and/or someone else suggesting that they did something and having them blush. That's how I imagine it at least.

[Janifuu]

Originally Posted by roan

Spoiler:

They might have done it. Once for sure, maybe two times (I'll have to read this again).

There it is.

[(o^^)-o*(x_x)*]

Spoiler:

Basing this on my own relationship, but couples in love don't have to have sex to show that they love each other. Of course not being able to read the novel, maybe the hints written in it makes it a bit more obvious that they went all the way.

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by (o^^)-o*(x_x)*

Spoiler:

Basing this on my own relationship, but couples in love don't have to have sex to show that they love each other. Of course not being able to read the novel, maybe the hints written in it makes it a bit more obvious that they went all the way.

Spoiler:

Because Ryuuji totally wouldn't bone Taiga if he got the chance.

Just sayin'.

[wistfulloner]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

Spoiler:

Because Ryuuji totally wouldn't bone Taiga if he got the chance.

Just sayin'.

Couldn't resist coming back.

Spoiler for Wait, what?:

Wait wait, where'd all this stuff about "doing it" come from? When did sexual content start leaking into my Toradora?

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by wistfulloner

Spoiler for Wait, what?:

Wait wait, where'd all this stuff about "doing it" come from? When did sexual content start leaking into my Toradora?

...You do read the books, right?

The author has an... interesting... sense of humor.

[wistfulloner]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

...You do read the books, right?

The author has an... interesting... sense of humor.

Books? Yes but up till now I have yet to observe any explicit content. Mind pointing me in the right direction?

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by wistfulloner

Books? Yes but up till now I have yet to observe any explicit content. Mind pointing me in the right direction?

I was more referring to the sexual humor the author invokes. A lot.

Spoiler for your answer about vol. 10:

From what I've heard/read/whatever, it's only IMPLIED that they have sex.

Because it's a light novel series and not, you know, School Days.

[wistfulloner]

I would seriously question Ryuji's ethics if he really "did" Taiga.

It just seems so... out of place, out of character.

[SakuraAyanami]

Originally Posted by wistfulloner

I would seriously question Ryuji's ethics if he really "did" Taiga.

It just seems so... out of place, out of character.

In that case you should try to understand the feelings of the characters that you are reading.
He has always been displayed as a normal teen who also has hormones. Just because he has never acted upon them (because he is not the generic male lead that drools and has nose bleeds at the sight of panties or boobs)doesn't mean that he can't get heat up in the mist of passion or hormonal drive.

[BetoJR]

Good Lord, why is sex such a big no-no to some people? It's a curious kind of behavior, to me...

[Waven]

I don't see what's the problem either, it complements their relationship, it's the last part of a greater picture so to say

[roan]

Originally Posted by wistfulloner

I would seriously question Ryuji's ethics if he really "did" Taiga.

It just seems so... out of place, out of character.

I said I wasn't going to be posting here anymore but there's probably a few things I should post here first.

Ryuuji is still just a kid and kids in Japanese highschool are less emotionally mature than kids in other countries, so whatever ethics you think he might have aren't quite so much as him being a nice guy, but a combination of circumstances, timid personality, excuses (I'm reviewing some of these monologues and the momentum of how they're written in context of volume 10, and I'm thinking, these really sound more like excuses or twisted reasoning for some other unsaid feeling), and complex issues involving being abandoned if he didn't stay a good boy. Back in volume 1, he did act like a somewhat normal kid in terms of sexual attraction when it came to Taiga. However, this got shoved to the backdrop since,



1. If he tried to pull something on her, she'd bite back.

2. She's got enough force on her so he doesn't have to worry about being sensitive when dealing with a frail girl and doesn't have to register as being someone of the opposite sex. But when her guard's completely down and she acts like a normal girl (swimsuit, closet incident at the school trip)..... (Also, from the perspective of this being a short series running on momentum and ambiguous emotions instead of a long-running one that can be dragged on, having situations like this happen again and again is going to be boring and repetitive, now that I think about it).

3. He's a chicken because of his "I have to be a good boy complex." If he stopped being a "good boy", he might be abandoned.

4. He's living with a reasonably cute girl (I'm using the manga and novel illustrations as a base and not the lolified anime character design) so where is the frustration going? Does he even masturbate? What is the source of these bursts of superhuman feats (stopping Taiga from falling down the stairs, making the breastpads, the marathon, the bear Santa, spotting the light of a hairpin during a blizzard)?

5. I'm reviewing the monologues here and there and comparing them with how he behaves in volume 10 and I'm getting the feeling that most his ethics and what he's been doing for Taiga were desperate but unconscious attempts at getting her to depend on him and therefore stay with him and not abandon him. He changed his stance to doing what's best for her instead of for him in volume 5, but the way how he's probing around for problems in volume 7 and acting like an abandoned puppy in volume 8, really, really, make it seems like he was looking for any reasonable chances to be with her when she's drifting further away from him and ceasing to be dependent on him. I think he's been killing his emotions while not even knowing about it the whole time.

I mean, in volume 10,

Spoiler:

he lets Taiga go to patch up things with her mom without even seeing her off, and this could be the last time they ever see each other. They both agreed that this was the best for now, but after she's gone, he runs off bawling and chasing after her, like how Taiga did in volume 7.

6. Put all this stuff together, dump the whole charade of two kids liking their counterparts' best friend and not each other, and get rid of the "mama's boy that can't think for himself" complex, and I could see a lot of emotions exploding.

Which may or may not be apparent in the anime, but ah well.


Now about volume 10 itself.

Spoiler:

After his first kiss on the bridge and the impact of it hit him, he discovers that the reason why he couldn't get himself to do anything to her ever since he first met her was that he instinctively knew that there was something "toxic" about her body and once he got a taste of it, he couldn't stop. I guess he's been holding himself back the whole time, channeled it into something else, or had to roleplay as someone else to keep himself from taking one step forward?

The "implied" sex scene happens much later happens on the night before Taiga goes back by herself to patch up things with her mother and is more like one of those "let's leave it up to the reader's imagination" deals (it's kind of a fun/dumb topic on 2ch). Ryuuji's in a futon and there's some kind of tension between him and Taiga going on. Ryuuji can hear Taiga's footsteps moving away, so he's about to get up to pull her back, but then she jump him and kisses him deeply and passionately for a while. Ryuuji's going into erogame protagonist mode mentally, but Taiga then says she's going to sleep and wishes him good night.

The scene abruptly ends with the narrator saying there was no way Ryuuji could get any sleep, twice, with the second instance being significantly and ominously separated from the main text by several lines.

It might have been that he just couldn't get any sleep because of the long kiss and her being on top of him or he couldn't get any sleep and then (or because)....... Since it is their last time together, I wouldn't say it's out of character if something did happen.

Safer to assume that the former happened.

I'll add something on Ami while I'm at it.

Spoiler:

This is a bit after Taiga is gone.

Ami (while crying): ....Do you think that Taiga wants to see me again too?

Ryuuji: You have to think that you want to see her. If you need her, and it's not about her needing you, say it. Show it by your actions. The only one that can express what you're thinking is yourself..... You have to move for your own sake!

Ami: I.....I wanna to see Taiga again! I wanna be here when Taiga comes back! I wanna be better friends with Minori-chan! I wanna make up with Takasu-kun too! .....I don't wanna stop being friends! I want to be friends forever! I want to have fun with everyone, I want to be with everyone, I love everyone....!

Kitamura: What about me!?"

Ami: I don't give a damn about Yuusaku!

Yeah.....I'd say this is what she'd really been feeling the whole time. Most of those "advances" may have been part of her normal personality instead of anything conscious and what's she really been looking for the whole time was this....the "I don't want to have to act like an adult" kind of stuff.

I used to think that if Taiga was XP, she was Linux, but after reading this, she seems to me to be more like Vista.

[Janifuu]

Have my babies Roan, please hahahaha

[wistfulloner]

Originally Posted by SakuraAyanami

In that case you should try to understand the feelings of the characters that you are reading.
He has always been displayed as a normal teen who also has hormones. Just because he has never acted upon them (because he is not the generic male lead that drools and has nose bleeds at the sight of panties or boobs)doesn't mean that he can't get heat up in the mist of passion or hormonal drive.

Not to say that he has a suppressed sexual drive, but how can he bear to "do it" to Taiga? They've been through thick and thin together, and supported each other; I see them more as very, very special friends rather than a romantic couple. That is why I must question Ryuji's intentions if he were to do such a thing.

Maybe its because I live in conservative Singapore, where you don't see 17 year-olds making love every so often.

[roan]

Originally Posted by wistfulloner

I see them more as very, very special friends rather than a romantic couple.

It goes a little beyond that. For the whole time, their actions have been dictated by what the other person or the persons around them wants and not what they wanted themselves. On the outside and by their actions, they look like special friends, but what did THEY really, really, want for themselves, ignoring rules, situations, and whatnot? That's how I've been seeing it. This is also the same with Minori and Ami. They might be doing that or acting like this which could be suggesting something else, but what do they really want?

I'm putting it like this because this is a theme that should (hopefully) start becoming apparent, at least should have since the end of the Kitamura arc.

[MeoTwister5]

While this thread has caused my mind to aspload at least twice, I'm getting mixed impressions about the ending when...

Spoiler for Ending spoilers?:

Some posts say they'll be together again, albeit after a period of time again during their next school year, while some apparently say the night before she leaves is their last moment together.

So... which is it exactly?

[Tsukuyomii]

Uhh... Zero no Tsukaima deja vu... >,>
I was so hoping they would'nt go that way.

Spoiler:

Oh well, unless we have volume 11 or something with minori ending on it, I think i'll stay off of Toradora. This Loli-Tsundere type winning over and over again gave me a headache.
I hate a ending I can forsee. Take a good example from Shuffle! THAT'S how you end a series!

By the way, is there anything going on with Minori in volume 10? >,>

[Tango337]

Originally Posted by MeoTwister5

While this thread has caused my mind to aspload at least twice, I'm getting mixed impressions about the ending when...

Spoiler for Ending spoilers?:

Some posts say they'll be together again, albeit after a period of time again during their next school year, while some apparently say the night before she leaves is their last moment together.

So... which is it exactly?

Spoiler:

The last novel illustration shows them together again. A couple pages back roan also said "Oh yeah, they meet again".