Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei LN - Archived Discussion

[Sixth]

Originally Posted by Chosen_Hero

Hahahaha, love how the Miyuki fans are trying to sink the ship, but photographic evidence wins in the end.

TatsxErika FTW!!

So who do you think would win in a fight Touma (as of NT.9) or Tatsuya?

I say Touma would because of his Hero status which if you read the novels would know is pretty effective against people like Tatsuya.

P.S just to clarify I'm not siding with Touma because I'm a TAMNI/NT fan but because if you take into account all of their advantages you find some pretty interesting results.

This is not even a question. Tatsuya stomps. Hero status? If there is 2 main characters clashed, obviously the MC status will be cancelled off. You gave Precog way too much credit. It increases the survivability but it doesn't mean invincible. Remember how Rock Lee crushed Uchiha Sasuke so hard during their first match? This will be happen the same for Toma.

Come back again if the stupid Toma decides to learn some martial artists or else, it is Tatsuya's landslide victory. Also, why were you under the impression Toma's BS right hand can cancel other series's supernatural power?

[bietchie11]

Originally Posted by noobita

This is not even a question. Tatsuya stomps. Hero status? If there is 2 main characters clashed, obviously the MC status will be cancelled off. You gave Precog way too much credit. It increases the survivability but it doesn't mean invincible. Remember how Rock Lee crushed Uchiha Sasuke so hard during their first match? This will be happen the same for Toma.

Come back again if the stupid Toma decides to learn some martial artists or else, it is Tatsuya's landslide victory. Also, why were you under the impression Toma's BS right hand can cancel other series's supernatural power?

Leaving the offensive words aside, i agree with you. It's not like Tatsuya is only good at magic. He is an all-rounder.

Beside, Touma can only use 1 hand to cancel magic.
Tomitsuka can use his whole body and still loses.
And if you don't realize it about now, i will spell it out: Touma's defense is so full of holes.

[anonfr]

Originally Posted by bietchie11

Leaving the offensive words aside, i agree with you. It's not like Tatsuya is only good at magic. He is an all-rounder.

Yeah. Tatsuya's main strength is assessment. He himself said he's very good at analysis!

He uses the necessary force and abilities to deal with any situation. When he can't or doesn't feel like it, he makes other people do it.

If he was against someone who could only cancel all magic, he would just use pure martial arts.

I still don't think this is a healthy topic though. The hero's being a villain and making people unsettled.

[Ultragunner]

Originally Posted by NoLife222

There is something that always bother me, Tatsuya ability to analyse magic sequence is in the direct effect of mental reconstruction or elemental sight (ES)? From what i read, Tatsuya say his magic is terrible because he have to read the magic sequence consciously than alter the Eidos (normal magician simply unconsciously process the magic sequence and present the effect). And also, during explanation of Gram dispersion, the condition is to see and analyze. The explanation state that ES allow Tatsuya to see the sequence whereas the ability to analyze lies on Tatsuya.However, the explanation also conclude with ES as primary condition on usage of Gram dispersion. So in the end, the ability to analyze originated from where?

P.s Perhaps i simply lack understanding on long explanation??

ES allows Tatsuya to access the information dimension, an from that he can "see" the sequences and change in Eido directly, but it's up to Tatsuya to analyse it

it's like when a scientist is given a microscope or telescope, he/she can interpret the image, whereas ordinary people wouldn't have a clue what they see.

Of course, without ES, Tatsuya woudn't be able to develop any analysis ability (like without the telescope, modern astronomy wouldn't be born)

[Chosen_Hero]

Originally Posted by noobita

This is not even a question. Tatsuya stomps. Hero status? If there is 2 main characters clashed, obviously the MC status will be cancelled off. You gave Precog way too much credit. It increases the survivability but it doesn't mean invincible. Remember how Rock Lee crushed Uchiha Sasuke so hard during their first match? This will be happen the same for Toma.

Come back again if the stupid Toma decides to learn some martial artists or else, it is Tatsuya's landslide victory. Also, why were you under the impression Toma's BS right hand can cancel other series's supernatural power?

1. IB neutralizes "ANY AND ALL SUPERNATURAL ABILTIES" it doesn't matter if it's from another series the rule still applies.

2. If you bothered to read you'd know MC status =/= Hero status, in TAMNI a hero has the ability to turn any disadvantageous situation on it's head and find a way to win as long as there is at least a 1 percent of chance to win. MC is just a classification for who the story follows.

3. Precog is a very powerful skill that he honed through his fights against the strongest in the world.

4.Naruto is nowhere identical in scope to these anime, it's like comparing Gundam and Hayate no Gotoku.

5. Touma doesn't need to learn martial arts he's proved that more than enough times.

6. Please keep from insulting others when it hasn't been done to you.

7. Well in the context of the discussion I started, yes. Read #1 once again.

Like I said a winner would be difficult to determine since each has an advantage over the other, I personally don't see a winner but I do see the reaction Tatsuya would have on his face if he was ever to go up against Touma , one word: priceless.

P.S. 8. Touma is not as dumb as you paint him to be, all his fights require strategy which he comes up with in the middle of the fight while analizing his opponents abilities and memorizing his enemies pattern while testing their resolve. Oh, look at that the same as Tatsuya without having to lose his emotions.

If A.C. can't analize his IB and figure out what the hell it is, what makes you think Tatsuya could and no ES would not work on it. (Read #1)

[bietchie11]

Originally Posted by Chosen_Hero

1. IB neutralizes "ANY AND ALL SUPERNATURAL ABILTIES" it doesn't matter if it's from another series the rule still applies.

2. If you bothered to read you'd know MC status =/= Hero status, in TAMNI a hero has the ability to turn any disadvantageous situation on it's head and find a way to win as long as there is at least a 1 percent of chance to win. MC is just a classification for who the story follows.

3. Precog is a very powerful skill that he honed through his fights against the strongest in the world.

4.Naruto is nowhere identical in scope to these anime, it's like comparing Gundam and Hayate no Gotoku.

5. Touma doesn't need to learn martial arts he's proved that more than enough times.

6. Please keep from insulting others when it hasn't been done to you.

7. Well in the context of the discussion I started, yes. Read #1 once again.

Like I said a winner would be difficult to determine since each has an advantage over the other, I personally don't see a winner but I do see the reaction Tatsuya would have on his face if he was ever to go up against Touma , one word: priceless.

P.S. 8. Touma is not as dumb as you paint him to be, all his fights require strategy which he comes up with in the middle of the fight while analizing his opponents abilities and memorizing his enemies pattern while testing their resolve.

He probably makes the same expression when he faced Morasi-..Mo-... "Mr.Douche"(sorry i can't spell his name right so i won't).
Something along this line: "sigh, another annoying mindless grunt."

Anyway, no point in arguing this.
There is nothing solid to determine the difference between these two MC's prowess.
To be honest, why do you even ask "who will win in TAtsuya vs Touma" when you can't even accept others' opinions?
Just for the fun of it, i will throw in this "rule": Tatsuya = auto-win.
Argument done!!!

BTW, Is it just me or "PreCog something" is just a fancy name for "combat experience"?

P/S: Why Tatsuya will know how IB works? Because whoever A.C. is (air conditioner?), "it" is a scrub and stupid while Tatsuya is awesome and genius.
And why ES won't work? Do you forget that IB has to come in contact to cancel something? His ES fully analyzed Tomitsuka's anti-alll-shit armor, which is pretty much IB's equivalence in Mahouka.
Actually forget what i P/S.... i don't want to continue trivia and pointless arguments...

[anonfr]

Originally Posted by bietchie11

BTW, Is it just me or "PreCog something" is just a fancy name for "combat experience"?

P/S: Why Tatsuya will know how IB works? Because whoever A.C. is (air conditioner?), "it" is a scrub and stupid while Tatsuya is awesome and genius.

I was under the same impression. When i read about it Precog was described as more or less being that Touma developed a "Mind's eye" through sheer combat experience.

Tatsuya's magic is all distance though. Touma's all close combat, so even if he broke tatsuya's magic, it'd end up a pure martial arts bout no matter what wouldn't it?

Also, does Touma really do well without martial arts? a lot of Touma's fights were with people overly reliant on their abilities, and Touma broke them then beat them up.

There was that one time early on when Touma went after Tsuchimikado, and Tsuchimikado preceded to beat the shit out of him for awhile. No magic involved.

Still not a healthy topic though, people are getting irritated.

[CatRules]

Tatsuya can just be drinking tea with Maya and burn everyone with Material Burst.
Done! Don't really care about Touma's canceling ability. Just fxxxing MBs him!

p.s. seriously, magic fight in Mahouka is mainly about wise uses. Sniping everything from afar is how Tatsuya should fight, not CQC!

[bietchie11]

Originally Posted by CatRules

Tatsuya can just be drinking tea with Maya and burn everyone with Material Burst.
Done! Don't really care about Touma's canceling ability. Just fxxxing MBs him!

p.s. seriously, magic fight in Mahouka is mainly about wise uses. Sniping everything from afar is how Tatsuya should fight, not CQC!

BTW, CatRules, where did you lurk when pampz waged war solo?

[pampz21]

......
Touma....
Toumaa?
Toumaah?


Well one thing is for sure, Touma's righteous word or lies wont work with Tatsuya bcuz Tatsuya's personality is pretty much set up already....

Edit: I read TAMNI but got bored of it after vol. 22; there were no character that hook me up on it; there was Kanzaki but took me awhile to realize is....that it was a harem story so I had to drop it; idont like harem pretty much due to it, lowering the value of love.....

Best male I ever like is Harima Kenji#! Thats a man among men right there

[SoloPanda]

Originally Posted by pampz21

......
Touma....
Toumaa?
Toumaah?


Well one thing is for sure, Touma's righteous word or lies wont work with Tatsuya bcuz Tatsuya's personality is pretty much set up already....

But what if Touma randomly touched Tatsuya like say on the head or something? Would this not destroy the artificial processing area in his head causing who knows what to happen to his emotions and all hell to break loose? Touma is unlucky enough for something random like this to happen. Whatever would happen I think it would make for an interesting fan-fic or some other nonsense.

[hakazee]

Originally Posted by Vocah

Sorry, but do you mix up the meaning of plot armor?

Yes, Tatsuya is pretty hax, but this also explains why he survives the stuff. --> no plot armor

For Touma, I don't really know much about Index stuff, only watched the 1st anime season and I don't remember much of it but from your other post here he should have died many times already, right? He survives stuff just because he is the protagonist -> full on plot armor

Yeah the easiest way to avoid plot armor is to create your character as strong as possible.

So, you don't need to explain why the character survives.

Originally Posted by pampz21

Thats a man among men right there

KAMINA - TTGL is the best.

Originally Posted by SoloPanda

But what if Touma randomly touched Tatsuya like say on the head or something? Would this not destroy the artificial processing area in his head causing who knows what to happen to his emotions and all hell to break loose? Touma is unlucky enough for something random like this to happen. Whatever would happen I think it would make for an interesting fan-fic or some other nonsense.

Accelerator vs Tatsuya better.

If I'm not mistaken, Accelerator said he can survives from Big Bomb explosion.

[pampz21]

Originally Posted by SoloPanda

But what if Touma randomly touched Tatsuya like say on the head or something? Would this not destroy the artificial processing area in his head causing who knows what to happen to his emotions and all hell to break loose? Touma is unlucky enough for something random like this to happen. Whatever would happen I think it would make for an interesting fan-fic or some other nonsense.

Hmmm well when that happens all hell will break loose....
Tatsuya would develop a ponytail fetish#!

[kusabireika]

Will eat popcorn and drink some tea while watching too scared to join

On-topic: I wonder what are the events unfold on the next volume we know that 9 school competition have change due certain indivual need to be patience on the next volume to know what are events, question and answer we get on the next volume patience is a virtue

[pampz21]

Originally Posted by hakazee

KAMINA - TTGL is the best.

Accelerator vs Tatsuya better.

If I'm not mistaken, Accelerator said he can survives from Big Bomb explosion.

Kamina? I wouldnt call a dead man the best#! In the end he attained bromance and will forever be a virgin#!

@kusabireika
Same pattern terrorist trying to sabotage the game but now its not outside work but inside....mostly Koichi i guess

[kusabireika]

Originally Posted by pampz21

Kamina? I wouldnt call a dead man the best#! In the end he attained bromance and will forever be a virgin#!

@kusabireika
Same pattern terrorist trying to sabotage the game but now its not outside work but inside....most koichi i guess

How about issei/godou/shidou/all op anime/ln/manga characters vs tatsuya

Ah I see thx for explaining uhm I think this ln is top 10 favorite to read books

Now I wonder what is weakness/side effect/negative factor/limit/flaw/drawback of all magic in this ln. Do the main group has weakness in there spell for example tatsuya/miyuki/erika

[SoloPanda]

I'm really looking forward to volume 13. In one way we get to see how the second years have improved from the last 9SC. I also kinda want to see what Morisaki will do in this one. I really still don't like the guy but a few things caught my attention in the last volume. He owned Takuma without hesitation but Kasumi was still looking down on him as just average only acknowledging his speed. While she may be a Saegusa and have a lot of talent it seems arrogant. If I remember right Morisaki is easily in the top ten most powerful second years, even with that personality.

This got me to thinking how the 9SC will play out this year. Have the second years grown from their arrogance in the first year and understand the need to have a good technician? Will the new first year team, I'm guessing Takuma, the Saegusa twins, and various others be able to accept the fact that they need guidance? I'm thinking that they will tell Tatsuya to compete and he will refuse but end up doing it anyway (i.e. "It's Onii-sama's responsibility to defend his title from last year") kind of pressure.

Mostly I'm just hoping for some type of character growth in everyone.

[pampz21]

Originally Posted by kusabireika

How about issei/godou/shidou/all op anime/ln/manga characters vs tatsuya

Ah I see thx for explaining uhm I think this ln is top 10 favorite to read books

Now I wonder what is weakness/side effect/negative factor/limit/flaw/drawback of all magic in this ln. Do the main group has weakness in there spell for example tatsuya/miyuki/erika

Most OP would be Ryner if related to magic...in cqc Zack or Sepiroth hands down to those 3.

The mcs have lots holes. Expecially Erika in terms of magic...because we havent seen her doing real magic.
For Miyuki cqc and strategies is pretty much her weakness.
For Tatsuya its pretty solid but if i have to make a weakness its that Rock,Paper,Scissors magic.

Only thing im looking forward to vol. 13 is that hair...we dont have a visual for her due to introduction of new characters

[Lucarion]

Originally Posted by Chosen_Hero

No, the Incest ship and political marriage ships defy logic, brothrly love =/= love love, a past couple who broke up for a stupid reason (showed how much he loved her) =/= political marriage (which Tasuya won't go through) , your ships consist of maybes, if, hypothesis and fan speculation which =/= the truth, meanwhile the ErikaxTatsuya ship keeps finding more and more evidence in each volume.

You can ship who you want to (doesn't bother me) but please use factual evidence to support yor arguements (which pampz keeps finding and you keep dismissing). Yours are the scary ships that blindly sail the ocean and see nothing but your own preffered route without taking others into considaration.

That last line applies to pampz. Look, I have nothing but respect for him for the sheer balls-out dedication he has to the Erika faction...but he's currently riding a ship without guns into a battlefield with very little support.

First, let's get this established: Tatsuya's currently not in love with anyone. And as of what we've read, it might even be so that it is impossible for him to feel love.

Now, of course, what I'm about to say isn't absolute--I wouldn't dare to be so presumptuous, but since this is a story there is plenty of time for things to change--Tatsuya can learn to love. So, that said, who has the best chance out of all the girls of being Tatsuya's love interest?

It's Miyuki. It can't be anyone else other than Miyuki. Miyuki won't lose. Miyuki can not lose.

Let's look at it from a story-telling perspective:

1) Miyuki's the main heroine. Miyuki's the one who stars in the spin-offs, she's the girl Tatsuya gets paired with in the promotional materials, she's the girl with the most screentime, every girl gets compared to her at one point, and it has been firmly established that she's the person Tatsuya cherishes the most and is his primary reason for moving. You don't give an "imouto" character this much attention if you're not trying to make a point that she is, most definitely, important to the story. Mahouka is Miyuki's story as much as it is Tatsuya's.

2) The fact that Miyuki is Tatsuya's sister doesn't really mean much these days, doesn't it? These days it's not surprising for sister characters to win in the end--heck, they're pretty damn popular now. It happened with OreImo, and LNs with younger sister MAIN heroines are being released with stunning frequency. Being Tatsuya's sister doesn't mean squat against her chances--heck, it might actually improve them. Because imouto = popular and popular means money. One way or another, either through some cop-out or some seriously clever writing, it is possible for the Shiba Siblings to be a couple.

3) The story can't end favorably with anything other than a Miyuki End. The siblings have had too much development together, too many scenes, too many establishing relationship moments. These siblings were made for each other. What's more anyone other than Miyuki ending up with Tatsuya dooms Miyuki to a life of misery because she's already said that she would have no one else in her life other than him. This is something you don't doom your main heroine to--you only write those scenes when you want to show that her feelings for Tatsuya are absolute.


OK, now, for my specialty, let's look at it in the perspective of the Shiva Parallels. Miyuki shares too many similarities with Shiva's Shakti--especially her most popular aspect Parvati. She's Parvati, she's Sati, she's probably Durga, and she shares traits with, and is friends with Kali (Lina). Tatsuya is so Shiva it's almost ridiculous, therefore, whoever serves as his Shakti is probably going to be the one to win his romantic affections.

Miyuki fits the Shakti bill like a glove:

1) Parvati is a highly sophisticated beauty who everyone loves and is constantly surrounded by gods, bright spirits, and is said to be regularly attended by two nymphs. Miyuki is a Bloom, admired by other Blooms, and is usually seen with her two friends.

2) Parvati is known for her overwhelming, yet delicate beauty and her intelligence. Miyuki too is known for the same things.

3) Parvati fell in love with a god who was not in the least bit interested in love, and who was initially oblivious to her great affection for him. Miyuki is in love with her godlike brother who is not interested in, or possibly even incapable of, romantic love and who is oblivious to the great extent of her feelings for him.

4) Shiva likes to bring his wife beautiful clothes. Tatsuya likes to buy his sister beautiful clothes.

5) The Shiba Siblings act like a married couple at home. Screw playing around and trolling people, they act like that with or without people seeing them. Actually, they go at it more when no one can see them; they would also probably do anything--even die- for the sake of the other. Shiva and Parvati are known for their harmonious marriage and their all-consuming love for each other.

6) Parvati and Miyuki represents the best of the ruling system, while their significant other(Shiva and Tatsuya) represents everything anti or outside the system.

7) Parvati is merciless when provoked and sees merely insulting her Shiva as a grievous sin. Miyuki is merciless when provoked and will not stand for even one insult to her Tatsuya.

8) Parvati calls her husband "Lord". Miyuki calls her brother "Onii-sama". Both believe that their entire being exists for their beloved.

9) When Shakti was still Sati, she had a father (Daksha) who did not appreciate or acknowledge the greatness of Shiva and even despite his many wonderful traits looked down on him(well, to be fair, for some reason a lot of the gods back then looked down on Shiva, he wasn't the only one), and this caused her a lot of grief, said father also won his princely title because of connections and didn't really do anything to deserve his status. Miyuki has her father Tatsurou who did not earn his success and continues to look down on his son. Miyuki is also devoted to her mother, just as Parvati was to hers.

10) Parvati represents the "perfect feminine", while Shiva represents the "perfect masculine". Same with Tatsuya and Miyuki, moreover, Miyuki is a Yamato Nadeshiko and Tatsuya is one of the better representations of the "Strong Japanese Man".

11) Parvati considers the thought of other men being with her anathema. Inconceivable and repulsive. Miyuki feels the same about her belonging to someone other than Tatsuya.

12) The Shiba Siblings seem to like dancing and Tatsuya's martial arts have been compared to dancing before. Parvati and Shiva dance together too, and Shiva's the freaking Lord of Dance--only, like Tatsuya, whenever he "dances" something gets destroyed or someone gets slaughtered.

13) Parvati saves her sweetest glances only for her Shiva. You can't get any sweeter than Miyuki when she's with Tatsuya.

14) Part of the reason Parvati was said to have fallen for Shiva was because she saw he was stronger than her. Miyuki also started getting a crush on Tatsuya when she saw just how powerful he is, she admires Tatsuya's strength and ability and takes great pride in him for that.

15) Miyuki is a SHIBA. Which is appropriate, because while she's Parvati, she's also Shiva. His female half. Who is Shakti. Best known as Parvati. Miyuki is half of Shiva. Miyuki is ALSO Shiva.

16) Parvati is a fundamental part of the Shiva myths. Just as Miyuki is a fundamental part of Tatsuya's story. Also, Shiva and Parvati discuss theology in the same way Tatsuya and Miyuki regularly discuss magic and political affairs.

17) Miyuki's been explicitly called "Goddess" or compared to such. Shakti is the Great Goddess. The First Goddess. The Primordial Goddess. The Ultimate Feminine. Parvati is her primary personification. It has also been said that all goddesses are merely reflections of her and that regardless of who you worship you ultimately worship her--because all goddesses can be traced to her. This is especially amusing when you remember that in Mahouka, all the other girls have been compared to Miyuki at one point, and Mayumi even lampshades on the idea that maybe the reason Tatsuya hardly notices any of them is because compared to Miyuki, all other girls just seem like poor copies of his beautiful sister.


So, there, that's my case for why the Erika Ship sinks before the Miyuki Ship. Because the Erika Ship is a simple love boat; the Miyuki Ship is a freaking Dreadnought that can crush anything in its path.

[Echizen777]

I like Touma but no matter how you see it he can't beat Tatsuya. Most of the strong characters are glass canons, Tatsuya's Regrowth is insanely fast, Touma would not even be able to touch him, only Othinus and Aiwass could beat him.

Originally Posted by hakazee

Accelerator vs Tatsuya better.

If I'm not mistaken, Accelerator said he can survives from Big Bomb explosion.

Far Strike and Accel is dead.