(CR) Sangatsu no Lion [anticipation]

[moodie]

i think i almost fainted with excitement

and I'm guessing the people talking about diversity in shaft clearly hasn't watched much shaft to begin with.

[kuromitsu]

It's NHK and a rather big name franchise, so chances are it's not going to be all Shinbou'isms all the time. And it's for a completely different target audience that Shinbou's other works. But for that matter I think they got him of all people because they want something kind of unique and fresh (as far as NHK's concept of "freshness" goes), but they don't want a Hachikuro #2 either, something I completely agree with. (I loved Hachikuro's visuals, but then Nodame Cantabile tried copying it and all that proved was that without the budget and with different creative sensibilities it just didn't work. And it's pretty likely that this show will not have that much of a budget.) IMO it's kind of like Okada Mari with Gundam Orphans, they probably told her to tone the Okada'isms down so they don't harm the franchise. And who knows? Perhaps Shinbou sees this as an opportunity to break out of a creative rut and/or a pigeonhole. Perhaps he'll try to prove that he can do "normal" stuff, too.

In any case, I'm also kind of boggling over the news, but it's such an out of left field choice the result will be, at the very least, interesting, whether it's good or bad.

(So now you can see what my problem was with Arakawa doing Arslan senki. :P)

[Nachtwandler]

On the over hand. Don't forget that NHK productions tend to be long (24/25 eps x 2/3 seasons in general) but quite low-budget.

[Soliloquy]

Who knows? Maybe Shaft could adapt this series without utilising any of their styles. I mean Soredemo machi wa mawatteiru was fantastic. Granted, it had subtle trademarks of Shaft, it didn't bombard the viewers with the trickery. Believe it or not, it was quite faithful to the original source. Even I thought Shaft would be the last studio to be chosen to helm this series and I'm honestly relieved kyoani was not the studio the producer thought of.

[Marcus H.]

Can Saiunkoku Monogatari be considered low-budget? (I remember it airing in NHK BS-2 a long time ago.) It does apply to recent projects like S2 of Log Horizon, much to the disappointment of many.

[Nachtwandler]

Both seasons of LH was low budget (as for me S2 had even better action but less consistent general animation). Same goes with Bakuman, Phi-Brain and Rin-ne IMHO.

[Blue-kun]

Originally Posted by Nachtwandler

Both seasons of LH was low budget (as for me S2 had even better action but less consistent general animation). Same goes with Bakuman, Phi-Brain and Rin-ne IMHO.

From what I understand, it's important to note that shows like Bakuman, Log Horizon and I suspect the others listed all aired on different NHK channels, such as NHK-Educational.

NHK-G's last anime shows date all the way back to 2012, with Hyouge Mono and Ginga e Kickoff! So it's kind of an even bigger thing in this case. Also, if you want to make it even more 'impressive', aside from Ginga e Kickoff, which aired in the mornings and was clearly aimed at kids, the last NHK-G anime show that aired outside of the late-night slots was Kawa no Hikari, all the way back in 2009. At least according to the Wiki. And even then, Kawa no Hikari was a special!

[Guardian Enzo]

Originally Posted by Pocari_Sweat

I wouldnt go as far and say hes responsible for the destruction of creativity in anime. Although I still maintain that both monogatari and madoka were actually pretty bad in terms of visuals, the shaft visual style did fit the tone and approach they were trying to go for. Same with series like ef tale of memories and sayonara zetsubou sensei. And although a person may have different subjective opinions on whether they liked the series or not you cant deny they were very effective for their respective target audiences.

The problem however is two fold. The first is that shinbo is in sunmary a one trick pony. Doesnt matter what type of series or genre it is, the appraoch and style is pretty monotonous and singular in style. You talk about the homogenization problem for kyoto animation. Kyoani has actually diversified in approach sometimes (like in hyouka or the tamako market movie). Shinbo and shaft on the hand from my memory has not.

The second problem like you said is the complete mismatch in compatibility between sangatsu as a series and shaft and shinbo as director/studio. I dont know what kind of drugs were used to broker this arrangement but it must be some serious nasty stuff.

I wouldn't go so far as to say it either - which is why I didn't say it. What I said was that he's more responsible than any other director and that he exemplifies the problem, and I believe that to be true. It's an industry problem and he's as much symptom as he is cause, but more than any director he's made the problem worse.

[Archon_Wing]

As much as I hate it, and fact goes that I do not like the grand majority of Shaftstuff, I think Shinbo is being a bit maligned here.

Yea, he does have his signature wacky tricks, but they are certainly really distinct going from his Nanoha does to Madoka and to Zetsobu Sensei to Denpna Onna. Or even that Graffiti show. It's all within the same style, but there's no way that I'm going to confuse them with each other. Saying that's all the same is like saying Sawano's music all sounds the same... err... shit. But it's not really superficial similarities that deem one lacking in creative potential, but the ability or inability to provide their own unique style in context. Obviously, if you're tossing in head tilts and random German in without any appreciation for the content itself. I understand such a distinction is subjective, but it's definitely unfair.

This isn't to say I've reached a prejudgement somehow, but I'm trying to imagine how this kind of flavor would work. And I'll be honest. I think without Shinbo's antics, I wouldn't have given a damn about Monogatari at all; it was nothing special to me otherwise. I think Madoka Rebellion almost falls under this category; good movie, but it had a number of problems-- but one of the good points was the directing style was pretty unique even compared to the series proper.

I do however think, overexposure might be a problem in that regards.

[Guardian Enzo]

Originally Posted by Archon_Wing

As much as I hate it, and fact goes that I do not like the grand majority of Shaftstuff, I think Shinbo is being a bit maligned here.

Yea, he does have his signature wacky tricks, but they are certainly really distinct going from his Nanoha does to Madoka and to Zetsobu Sensei to Denpna Onna. Or even that Graffiti show. It's all within the same style, but there's no way that I'm going to confuse them with each other. Saying that's all the same is like saying Sawano's music all sounds the same... err... shit. But it's not really superficial similarities that deem one lacking in creative potential, but the ability or inability to provide their own unique style in context. Obviously, if you're tossing in head tilts and random German in without any appreciation for the content itself. I understand such a distinction is subjective, but it's definitely unfair.

This isn't to say I've reached a prejudgement somehow, but I'm trying to imagine how this kind of flavor would work. And I'll be honest. I think without Shinbo's antics, I wouldn't have given a damn about Monogatari at all; it was nothing special to me otherwise. I think Madoka Rebellion almost falls under this category; good movie, but it had a number of problems-- but one of the good points was the directing style was pretty unique even compared to the series proper.

I do however think, overexposure might be a problem in that regards.

If you play me two Spin Doctors songs, I can tell them apart. That doesn't mean the band isn't a one-trick pony.

There's really two separate issues at play here, and the bottom line is that whether you feel Shinbou is a one-trick pony or not, probably the most pertinent question is whether you think he's a fit for Sangatsu. And while trying to be as open-minded as possible, I can't imagine anyone who knows the source material thinking he is.

One defense I've seen for this decision is that well, maybe Shinbou can somehow change his style to not wreck the series. But that begs the question: why not just get a director who can avoid wrecking the series without having to reinvent himself (never mind the fact that if any director seems incapable of reinventing himself it's Shinbou).

NHK means yes, we're probably getting multiple cours. But if the series is unwatchable it doesn't really matter how long it runs - one ep would be too long. And for many who love the manga I fear that's going to be the case.

[Nachtwandler]

I don'y get one thing: Shimbo is credited with most of Shaft works but in fact her rarely dopes the actual direction leaving it to other directors. In general he just control the things. So we should wait before the actual director will be announced cause I doubt Shimbo really will do this single-handedly.

[Archon_Wing]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

If you play me two Spin Doctors songs, I can tell them apart. That doesn't mean the band isn't a one-trick pony.

I certainly understand that, hence my constant jabs at Sawano. I do think he deserves more credit than that. Yes, I can recall a few shows that are just "Hey look it's Shinbo and eww what's that on the wall?", but I think there are some clear exceptions.

There's really two separate issues at play here, and the bottom line is that whether you feel Shinbou is a one-trick pony or not, probably the most pertinent question is whether you think he's a fit for Sangatsu. And while trying to be as open-minded as possible, I can't imagine anyone who knows the source material thinking he is.

One defense I've seen for this decision is that well, maybe Shinbou can somehow change his style to not wreck the series. But that begs the question: why not just get a director who can avoid wrecking the series without having to reinvent himself (never mind the fact that if any director seems incapable of reinventing himself it's Shinbou).

To me, it matters not if it's a one trick pony but rather that if the one trick pony will wreck the series or not. I understand that if you're familiar with the source, you may have decided that your impression of what you want to see is incompatible with a Shinbo show. In that case, I can't really dispute that. But perhaps consider that poor experiences with this guy might just be a situation where one's weaknesses were left unchecked. I'm sure a certain other frequently discussed figure gets that discussion a lot

[Guardian Enzo]

Originally Posted by Nachtwandler

I don'y get one thing: Shimbo is credited with most of Shaft works but in fact her rarely dopes the actual direction leaving it to other directors. In general he just control the things. So we should wait before the actual director will be announced cause I doubt Shimbo really will do this single-handedly.

That may very well be true but isn't it a moot point (was that a Shinryaku Ika Musume chapter title?)? Is there really any difference between the "Shaft Style" and the "Shinbou Style" at this point? Whoever nominally directs a Shaft series, it seems pretty clear that it's Shinbou's aesthetic that dominates everything.

You do see directors - like Oonuma Shin and Omata Shinichi - break away from the Shinbou style somewhat. But only after they've left the studio. As long as a show has the Shaft emblem, it has the Shinbou style. There were once a few shows (like Soredemo Machi wa Mattaeiru and to a lesser extent Natsu no Arashi) that soft-pedaled the Shinbou schtick. But since Shinbou has become the embodiment of the commercially successful NisiOisin/LN attention-deficit model, there have really been no major deviations from orthodoxy.

[Archon_Wing]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

But since Shinbou has become the embodiment of the commercially successful NisiOisin/LN attention-deficit mode...

Well, we can agree with something over here.

[Proto]

Eh, I think it's mostly fine. Shaft has made other series that partially intersect with Sangatsu work before (ef, Hidamari Sketch.) Emphasis on partially intersect, I know these two series are different enough that Sangatsu is mostly a new enterprise for them, but aspects of it have been successfully conveyed before in those. So it's not like Shaft's involvement will invariably result in an unmitigated disaster.

On Shaft's style, there's a reason Shaft's style is considered hit or miss for most people, and the reason is that sometimes, lo' and behold, they do get a hit. Plus there are people who do like their style, myself included. I get why people see Sangatsu's choice of studio to be preoccupying at best though, but as people have mentioned before at this point I think it's better to just wait and let the series speak for itself. Plus, if there's something that Shaft has going for them is that they can make wonders out of low budget projects (Hidamari Sketch 1st season).

[Utsuro no Hako]

Guys, guys, you're missing the important thing here: Shinbou now insists that we refer to him as Simbo.

[MCAL]

And I thought the Grisaia director getting Rewrite was a big mismatch...

[Guardian Enzo]

People wouldn't be getting so upset about it if the source material weren't so revered by so many readers - readers who waited way longer than they expected to have to for an anime announcement. It's a lot of disappointment, sure, but it's that much worse because it was so unexpected.

[Pocari_Sweat]

Originally Posted by Proto

Eh, I think it's mostly fine. Shaft has made other series that partially intersect with Sangatsu work before (ef, Hidamari Sketch.) Emphasis on partially intersect, I know these two series are different enough that Sangatsu is mostly a new enterprise for them, but aspects of it have been successfully conveyed before in those. So it's not like Shaft's involvement will invariably result in an unmitigated disaster.

Ef is a romance melodrama that had a moe aesthetic based of an eroge visual novel. Hidamari sketch is a slice of life with a moe aesthetic based off a 4-koma manga. Sangatsu is a coming of age story with no moe aethestic and based off a massively popular manga targeted at adult women and one that would actually be more suited for a live action tv series (but since japanese live action is almost always lolbad i rather it wasnt adapted to a live action). I see zero intersection here.

And before anyone quotes makoto shinkai being part of the production despite probably being a "mismatch" for the ef games the easy explanation is that the scenery porn that shinkai does totally aligned with the tone and atmosphere of the background art in the ef games. Plus he was only invovled in the background art and in the openings for the two games.

[Haak]

Now all that's left is for Mari Okada to do the Series Composition for maximum trollage. XP