2007-10-24, 06:01 | Link #61 | |
Misuzu & Kotomi Protector
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Philippines
Age: 41
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2007-10-24, 10:04 | Link #62 | |
Martian diplomat
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2007-10-24, 13:59 | Link #63 | |
Misuzu & Kotomi Protector
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Philippines
Age: 41
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Ignore my singing... Anyway, your definition of tsundere is more on the side of character development (the traditional, old), while some of us are using the evolve form of tsundere where the said character's personality is what matters. Kyou is tsundere because she goes tsuntsun and deredere (moonstruck for a much easier term to understand) everytime and doesn't really need a special catalyst to draw it out. Much like Kagurazaka Azuna, Anya (Negima), Shana, Sonozaki Mion, Houjou Satoko (the lonely... erm rephrase... the loli tsundere), Suiseiseki, Shinku, Sawatari Makoto, Sawachika Eri, Asuka Langley etc., or do you want to argue about Hiiragi Kagami not being a tsundere too? And by the way, don't think that's the only time you'll see her mood swing. http://youtube.com/watch?v=Qh0YuphModU Did you see Shiraishi's reaction when he was asked if "Kagami is not a tsundere, then what is she?" Anyway, I give up if that still doesn't make sense to you... |
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2007-10-24, 14:14 | Link #64 | |||
阿賀野型3番艦、矢矧 Lv180
Graphic Designer
Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Belgium, Brussels
Age: 37
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Again, the only "deredere" part (only one so far) of Kyou was shown with the pantsu which is a behaviour to almost ALL anime girls, absolutely not only for tsundere. Besides, it isn't even a demonstration of deredere. Embarassement doesn't show any form of mandatory lovey dovey side. Quote:
I think I blogged like no time. Excuse me but... Mion and Satoko as Tsundere...!? Mion is the typical tomboyish girl who can't express her feelings. She has RARE mood swing, and she DOESN'T harbor any opposition to keiichi AT ALL. If anything, it "could" be valid if she was having an aversion to him. But she is NOWHERE from being a tsundere... she DOES NOT have a Tsun to begin with! That's the same for Satoko, who doesn't have ANY tsun either ! Asuna and Anya ARE tsundere, and the catalyst is negi's actions. The rest of list are acting because of a catalyst... that has NOTHING to do with the first definition... Both definitions (old and modern) follow the same point: an initial cold/brutal interaction with their interest, which either melt, or switch with the deredere. Quote:
Baiscally, Shiraishi was too strict with his own definition, while the definition mutated to allow both type. Rather a new standard? who knows, but Kagami's case is nowhere near of Kyou's, that's how i see it. Sheesh... at this rate, Tomoyo and EVEN Nagisa will be considered as Tsundere if they just have "some" mood swing because of Tomoya. ... i wasn't willing to deviate the discussion into "tsundere" thesis, but seriously, the whole deal is based on only ONE sentence giving the whole deal for both known type of this category of character. Once again: traits are shared in several archtype, and getting one of them doesn't put a character in the category itself. As an example, Tomboyish and Tsundere characters share some similarities, but if you pick a "violent girl", that doesn't mean she is 100% a tsundere, she might be tomboyish instead.
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2007-10-24, 14:33 | Link #65 |
Martian diplomat
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Just in case if people have misunderstood me...
Just while everyone is arguing about mood change is Tsundere or not, I am here trying to say: Kyou was NEVER Tsun. She is always trying to act friendly, just like guys always punch each other(eastern guys do that all the time, don't ask me why), Kyou was trying to express friendship through "the guy's way". She is wild, crazy, and sometimes like a cat, but definitely never been Tsun. If you disagree, please list any Tsun moments of Kyou for me and I'll explain. |
2007-10-24, 15:32 | Link #66 | ||||
Misuzu & Kotomi Protector
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Philippines
Age: 41
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Anyway a clearer interpretation of tsuntsun It's about mood being bad (wild) and not a person being bad (wild). Quote:
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Tsundere isn't just all about denial of feeling towards something or character development or whatever, but some sort of a personality that goes tsuntsun and deredere or a person whose tsuntsun and deredere personality is above most of her personality. The catalyst you're talking about is someone who pulls out that tsuntsun and deredere out of her every time. Take for example, Asuka, she's tsuntsun most of the time towards Shinji, but when it comes to Kaji she becomes deredere, making her tsundere. And as I said before we're going in circle again. |
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2007-10-24, 15:37 | Link #67 | ||
Gone for Good
Join Date: Apr 2004
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In very simple terms, Tsundere is "cold on the outside, warm on the inside". That is what Kyou is, in that she acts all combative to try and hide her feelings for Tomoya. Quote:
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2007-10-24, 15:58 | Link #68 |
Lost in my dreams...
Join Date: Jun 2006
Age: 37
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I suggest we simply drop this whole thing. It is obvious we are not going to obtain an agreement whether Kyou is a tsundere or not if we can't even agree to what tsundere really is in the first place. No wonder this whole thing is going in circles
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2007-10-24, 16:36 | Link #69 |
Martian diplomat
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I kind of agree...there are people who thinks going wild is Tsun...if that so...how do you explain a girl going wild? Does she has to destroy a continent to be a wild instead of a Tsun...? Kyou never once did deny her feelings for Tomoya, it's just she acts like a guy and never says it out loud. Well until houkuholic shows up then...
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2007-10-24, 17:23 | Link #70 | |
Misuzu & Kotomi Protector
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Philippines
Age: 41
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And for what I know "tsuntsun" in tsun is used to describe behavior and it usually means "aloof" but if you want a different description click this tsuntsun |
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2007-10-24, 17:44 | Link #71 | ||||
神聖カルル帝国の 皇帝
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Korea
Age: 37
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I think we need to settle this: 1. Tsundere is a behavior tha forms when one has feelings for another person 2. It's too early to tell. |
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2007-10-24, 18:24 | Link #72 |
Martian diplomat
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We were also basing our information on game.
Kyou is a always in a happy-go-around mood. The only time she was in a bad mood was in the rain. (game) Just because she acts violent doesn't mean she is in a bad mood. And Kyou wasn't embarrassed to say her feelings, but she is Spoiler for game spoiler, careful!:
The script writer also never intended for Kyou to be a tsundere (as mentioned in the interview), but as a ‘girl who can always approach as a friend’. Although you can argue that a 'girl who can always approach as a friend' does not conflict with the fact that she can be tsundere, keep this in mind, Kai never intended to created a tsundere--he is trying to create a girl who is as close to real life situation as possible(and hence the Anti-KEY theme of him) So it's all right if you think realistic for Kyou. |
2007-10-24, 21:08 | Link #75 | |||||
Misuzu & Kotomi Protector
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Philippines
Age: 41
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Remember how Shiraishi got stumped when Akira asked him "what is she if she's not a tsundere" after butting in with "it's too early to decide that."? He couldn't answer right because he's following the traditional tsundere definition where character development is the main focus. Kagami isn't a developing character, she stayed the same all throughout the show but they considered her tsundere because of her usually hot-tempered (tsun) but easily embarrassed (dere) when dealing with Konata personality. Quote:
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2007-10-24, 21:33 | Link #76 | ||
Gone for Good
Join Date: Apr 2004
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Speaking of which, I need to get back on helping out on the translation of it. Quote:
I go by the more flexible definition: "cold on the outside, warm on the inside". It can be expressed physically or emotionally. "Cold" can mean being violent, or rude (in a cheerful or menacing way). "Warm" can mean feeling insecure, embarrassed. and any of the more "girly" traits. And it can also apply on RL ladies, like Vexx's wife, for example. |
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2007-10-24, 21:45 | Link #77 | |
Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
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2007-10-25, 01:09 | Link #78 | |
神聖カルル帝国の 皇帝
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Korea
Age: 37
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2007-10-25, 07:33 | Link #79 | ||||||
Martian diplomat
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[/quote]So her bad temper/mood (tsuntsun) which also implies being wild isn't supposed to be tsuntsun? Like I said that kind of personality is what makes a tsun. Being bad tempered/mood to the point they become a bit wild or angry. Anyway, Tsuntsun doesn't imply bad mood as in, suffering because something happened. When she was in the rain, that wasn't what tsuntsun means. That interpretation of yours about bad mood is "not in good mood, disheartened" instead of being in a bad temper.[/quote] I repeat, Kyou was never in a bad mood. Her wild acts are mainly her way to express friendliness, like the guys do. Quote:
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Besides, no one likes Sunohara. Or are you trying to say the rugby team are tsuntsun towards Sunohara and deredere when with themselves? Quote:
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2007-10-25, 08:55 | Link #80 |
I don't give a damn, dude
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In Despair
Age: 37
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Gosh, this is going a bit overboard.
Can we at least wait to see a bit more of Kyou first, before continuing this "discussion"? Right now, I personally am not going to move one way or the other, until her part in the story is played out at least. |
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