AnimeSuki Forums

grey_1960 · 2012-05-30, 20:41

^
If that is true then Law will be one hard person to kill. If he ever knows about a major fight then just use that move has his escape plan or a trap.

Kona · 2012-05-30, 22:08

So much Law wank going on..

ReaperxKingx · 2012-05-30, 22:10

Classic Luffy yelling out the secret plan in front of his enemy. I see a King disposition Haki explosion coming soon.

cj1277 · 2012-05-30, 22:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randrak42

Law probably left a room open before hand and transferred between rooms afterwards.
And Smoker was never one to choose sides, he'll probably attack both of them if it comes to it.

I like that explanation actually, even though im a fan of Law he is coming off as rediculously overpowered more and more (...still the warping was really cool). So setting up a room before hand makes me feel better otherwise Law will be a really hard opponent to beat like grey said.

Not an all that interesting chapter for me, im just annoyed by the fact Law won't capture CC even though he's been proven badass in this arc. Makes me think a little less of him for going to Luffy but if it does have something to do with his crew or a reasoning on the same level i guess i can forgive him. If not Law loses some cool points for lack of {[blank]}

Pure Luffy

leave it to him to just rush in. Hope the next chapter is straight action, its time to see what the crew can really do...no more stalling

ReaperxKingx · 2012-05-30, 22:48

Pretty much, Luffy's crew fighting in Fishmen Island was like stretching their legs. The real thing begins here, nothing says proving how powerful you are when you are facing marines who are sadists, a guy you fought with before is now a girl, giant slime ball, and a funny looking clown.

holypanl · 2012-05-31, 11:42

It is my personal sentiment that Caesar Crown is one of the most refreshingly designed and personnified characters Oda has introduced in quite a while. There is no straightforward analysis that can be applied to him. His goals may be clear, but his motives, even though somewhat obvious are still sketchy to the reader's mind simply because he as a character is unfathomable.

You could be told right now by Oda: "Caesar Crown is has no real goals other than the creation of potent weapons."

And you would still, to a large extent, think in the back of your mind that Caesar actually has a grand scheme laid out of unknown scale which will continue to have significance indefinitely. I like his flippancy, calculative coldness, and his nonchalance in the face of the fact that his interest in creating weapons really can't bring him or anyone else any good...but he's still interested anyway, possibly not even thinking about the implications or consequences.

A childish kind of wickedness, guarded by keenly perceptive powers of planning, chilling proactive defensive tactics and an eerie disregard for the prospect of failure, or forestallment by the law.

Love him. And he doesn't look grotesque either, so my mind doesn't discard him as fodder immediately upon seeing him.

risingstar3110 · 2012-05-31, 12:31

Robin in the last page was hot. Good thing that she gave up her Egyptian hair style. Nami, or more accurately Sanji, was incredibly cool there also.

Well still a bit surprised about Luffy entrance. But good call on how Law probably gonna regret his alliance proposal now

marvelB · 2012-05-31, 13:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigdeal000

Are you a psychologist?

lol, don't mind holypanl. He just prefers the more complex side of OP. Personally, I sort of see him as the yin to my yang (who prefers the simpler aspects of the series, and yes, that includes caring about those so-called "insignificant" background characters).

Anyways, I don't think anyone else brought it up yet, but I find it rather interesting that out of all the Straw-Hats, the one who's been shown to have the most interaction with Kinemon is Sanji. I just find that curious because I'd have figured that Zoro would be the most "compatible" with the samurai, so to speak (what with being a fellow warrior and all). It kind of makes me wonder if this means that Sanji will become a close ally of some of the Wano samurai in a similar way that Usopp has befriended some of the Elbaf giants.....?

C.A. · 2012-05-31, 13:38

The thing that makes Oda's characters interesting and easily related by readers is because he knows how to build up and present the context of his characters.

He knows how to draw and put the right ingredients together to form a character and then shows off those unique traits of the character using actions or dialogue so that people can find the character interesting.

holypanl · 2012-05-31, 15:05

@bigdeal000: Nope :|

marvelB · 2012-06-01, 02:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigdeal000

And can you give me an example of such background characters? I want to see how much attention i give them compared to you.

I'm basically referring to background characters who stand out to me like Heat and Wire from Kidd's crew (those guys who look a zombie and devil respectively) or "Iron Boy" Scotch (the large cyborg guy who was guarding one of Kaidou's islands before the skip and who recently became the focus of a theory of mine regarding the identity of one of the yeti brothers). Of course, there's also Pandaman, but..... I think he'll end up becoming a major character near the end of the series, so I don't usually count him.

Jouten · 2012-06-01, 04:51

I lol'd at Tashigi screaming "Kyaah! How do I turn back?" in Smoker's body. Can't wait for the Anime scene, Smoker's VA will have to dismiss all his manliness.

Anyway, I'm not surprised Luffy doesn't go with Law's plan, he said to Jinbei that he doesn't like to follow plans.

I still don't trust Law. The fact that he doesn't fight Caesar Clown, makes me think that he could betray the Straw Hats, or simply watch who the stronger ally is and then side with them. His explanation that he needs time to research the drug, doesn't seem really legit to me, because the fight against CC can't be too long if both Luffy and Law fight him at once

ronin myael · 2012-06-01, 08:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by marvelB

there's also Pandaman, but..... I think he'll end up becoming a major character near the end of the series, so I don't usually count him.

yay! pandaman! he's the man!

Quote:

It is my personal sentiment that Caesar Crown is one of the most refreshingly designed and personnified characters Oda has introduced in quite a while. There is no straightforward analysis that can be applied to him. His goals may be clear, but his motives, even though somewhat obvious are still sketchy to the reader's mind simply because he as a character is unfathomable.

i agree with this. minus the psychological analysis, i think he's one of the most fascinating villains oda has ever written, and i love (or hate) akainu, blackbeard and even spandam. i like the fact that he's simply psychotic whether he has a grand scheme behind his madness or not.

freakabcd · 2012-06-01, 09:02

Guys, I don't know if we are reading the same chapter!

How could you miss that Robin was flying with wings! in the middle of page 18 and on the bottom middle of the same page??!!?

p.s. you can rep me if you heard it from me first

holypanl · 2012-06-01, 09:16

People are saying that they "do not trust Law". I'm not sure what there is or isn't to trust about Trafalgar Law: he hasn't ever been presented as a fairy godmother to any of the Mugiwara, and he never purported to want anyone's co-operation on the basis of trust.

I think lots of readers have forgotten that this manga is about Pirates -- pirates are criminals, fugitives from the law and unscrupulous opportunists. Why are people trying to hold Law to the light of a moral candle? That said, Oda has not much been keeping the plot very "pirate themed", so the Mugiwara crew is mostly a group of daring seamen, and not pirates at all. Had they not declared themselves to be pirates, even after the penetration of Enies' Lobby, they would still not be pirates; they are really just Insurgent Sailors.

Not once have they cornered, boarded and looted a single merchant vessel, or held a small port to ransom, or robbed a vessel owned by the crown of any state. They're not pirates, so I suppose having been reading the story from the point of view of these mostly benign insurgent seamen, the readers are assuming that every other crew that has been classified as "pirates" is also nothing but a rogue seafaring clique which doesn't actually do "bad things".

EDIT: TBH, it has always bothered me that Oda allowed the Mugiwara crew to be classified as "pirates" from day one. That was really bad logic on his part, IMHO. IIRC, the Strawhats were first reported to the World Government after the Arlong Park arc, when a marine official bitterly sent a photograph of Luffy to the Marines, claiming that he was a very dangerous pirate. Now, that could have been used as a really nice plot device. If Luffy had just set off as an "Adventuring Treasure Seeker", and then a Marine called him in as a villain unjustly, then the story wouldn't be so inconsistent. Tbh, so far all the Mugiwaras have done is hunt other pirates (Bounty Hunting; not a crime), accept large masses of gold from grateful sovereign states (not a crime), and go looking for One Piece (Treasure Seeking; not a crime).

I re-assert that had they not been calling themselves pirates for no reason, then after the Enies' Lobby incident, they would have still not been seen as pirates, and just a set of renegade seamen.

TL;DR: Trafalgar Law is a real pirate. Stop thinking he won't, or shouldn't do pirate things. All things considered, the Strawhats really do not qualify to be called pirates.

freakabcd · 2012-06-01, 10:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigdeal000

lol, no rep from me, read my first post on this chapter

.

True! I actually read the first page again after I made my post. Then decided not to edit my post as I made it more ... "spectacular" than in your post

marvelB · 2012-06-01, 10:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by freakabcd

Guys, I don't know if we are reading the same chapter!

How could you miss that Robin was flying with wings! in the middle of page 18 and on the bottom middle of the same page??!!?

I'd probably be more impressed with Robin's move if she hadn't already revealed it way back during the Thriller Bark storyline.....

Quote:

Originally Posted by holypanl

wall o' text

Uh yeah, not like I disagree with you about the general definition of a pirate or anything, but you've gotta remember that what matters is Oda's vision of what pirates are. In fact, I'm pretty sure that he still has pirates split up into the two categories he had established way back in the first Romance Dawn one-shot: "Peace Mains" (pirates who care more about adventuring than murdering/plundering), and "Morgania" (which basically fits your view of what pirates should be).

So just because the Straw-Hats aren't a bunch of a vicious rogues doesn't mean that they can't be pirates in Oda's mind, and I have no objection to that (hey, didn't I just say a couple posts back that I have more appreciation for the simpler aspects of the series than the complex ones?).

freakabcd · 2012-06-01, 10:15

I agree with what marvelB just mentioned. Maybe in the One Piece world, there are only two types of crews sailing on the seas. If you are not part of the law enforcement, you are branded a pirate crew. Seems simple if you think about it in this manner.

If there were instances of crews sailing the seas (other than simply transporting people & cargo), I don't remember them. Please remind me if they were shown somewhere earlier. As seen from my previous posts, my memory of OP events is a little fuzzy

holypanl · 2012-06-01, 10:22

But when the Red Line was being explained, was it not said that there are merchant vessels, and civilian vessels whose captains paid for new ships to cross into the New World? That invalidates the argument that OP there are only "Good pirates and bad pirates" or, "law vessels and pirates".

There is clearly a normal nautical arrangement. In that arrangement, pirates are expected to be...pirates. An adventuring crew is really just a crew of adventurers. It's a bit ridiculous how Oda has ardently kept asserting that the Strawhats are pirates when they aren't -- I'm a One Piece reader too, and I love it a lot, but I don't make spurious arguments to try and mask over something that is obviously a flaw :|

EDIT: Ah, I missed MarvelB's point above:

Quote:

Originally Posted by marvelB

...doesn't mean that they can't be pirates in Oda's mind...

To keep it short, I think I can point out this single line as being probably the root of the reason people keep thinking Law has to be a "good guy" or something; that's not to say that I'm against there being good characters, but it seems like the benign nature of the readers combined with Oda's harmless protagonist crew is really damaging the potential for the fanbase to truly apprehend the world in which the story is set. Pirates are actually a real threat. The world government has a genuine concern, and civilians worldwide have repeatedly approached the Strawhats with doubt and preconceptions based on what other pirates have done to them in the past.

But since we've been seeing the OP world from this tame point of view, it does have the effect of distorting the perception of what the rest of the OP world is like with reference to pirates. You can pretty much replace "In Oda's mind" in the marvelB quote above with "In the reader's mind", and it'll probably become very clear why all these people seem to be quick to write off a character as a "jerk" or whatever other label they want to apply to that character. In reality though, while certain behaviours are unrefined in higher company, if you are in the presence of the criminally minded, you don't waste your time applying normal rules of morals and obligation to them. People seem to be thinking that other pirates in OP are interested in some form of decency where their piracy activities are concerned. The reality is that for a criminal, the only limits to morality are what that criminal deems to be too far "beneath" himself, or in cases where the person is truly far gone, it is only bounded by what he or she is disallowed from doing by higher powers.

freakabcd · 2012-06-01, 10:30

Well, what I wanted to say is this:
* law enforcement vessels
* cargo (human or otherwise) transportation vessels
* other vessels

Perhaps the "other vessels" are assumed to be "pirate vessels" because they do not have some official insignia denoting them to be from either of the other 2 categories? Also perhaps because they do not have an "official reason" to be travelling on the sea. This is the only way I think it makes sense.

I agree that this may very well be a flaw / plot hole, but it doesn't diminish my enjoyment when reading OP.

2012-05-31, 11:42	Link #26
holypanl Well Rounded Critic Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: In a class of my own.	It is my personal sentiment that Caesar Crown is one of the most refreshingly designed and personnified characters Oda has introduced in quite a while. There is no straightforward analysis that can be applied to him. His goals may be clear, but his motives, even though somewhat obvious are still sketchy to the reader's mind simply because he as a character is unfathomable. You could be told right now by Oda: "Caesar Crown is has no real goals other than the creation of potent weapons." And you would still, to a large extent, think in the back of your mind that Caesar actually has a grand scheme laid out of unknown scale which will continue to have significance indefinitely. I like his flippancy, calculative coldness, and his nonchalance in the face of the fact that his interest in creating weapons really can't bring him or anyone else any good...but he's still interested anyway, possibly not even thinking about the implications or consequences. A childish kind of wickedness, guarded by keenly perceptive powers of planning, chilling proactive defensive tactics and an eerie disregard for the prospect of failure, or forestallment by the law. Love him. And he doesn't look grotesque either, so my mind doesn't discard him as fodder immediately upon seeing him. __________________ Rev. Niemöller, on Nazi Germany: First they went for communists: and I didn't speak out, not being a communist; Then they came for trade unionists, and I said naught because I wasn't a trade unionist; Then they came for the Jews: and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew; Then they came for me! ...and there was no one left to speak out for me.

2012-05-31, 12:31	Link #27
risingstar3110 ✘˵╹◡╹˶✘ Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Australia	Robin in the last page was hot. Good thing that she gave up her Egyptian hair style. Nami, or more accurately Sanji, was incredibly cool there also. Well still a bit surprised about Luffy entrance. But good call on how Law probably gonna regret his alliance proposal now __________________

2012-05-31, 13:38	Link #29
C.A. Absolute Haruhist! Artist Join Date: Mar 2006 Age: 36	The thing that makes Oda's characters interesting and easily related by readers is because he knows how to build up and present the context of his characters. He knows how to draw and put the right ingredients together to form a character and then shows off those unique traits of the character using actions or dialogue so that people can find the character interesting. __________________ No longer a NEET so I'll not be online as often. Ignore gender and kick sexuality to the curb! I'm a big mecha fan, who keeps playing the SRW series. When I say 'My god...', god refers to Haruhi-sama. My art album updated 11th May 2013, Science. Deviant Art: http://ca0001.deviantart.com/

2012-05-31, 15:05	Link #30
holypanl Well Rounded Critic Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: In a class of my own.	@bigdeal000: Nope :\| __________________ Rev. Niemöller, on Nazi Germany: First they went for communists: and I didn't speak out, not being a communist; Then they came for trade unionists, and I said naught because I wasn't a trade unionist; Then they came for the Jews: and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew; Then they came for me! ...and there was no one left to speak out for me.

2012-06-01, 04:51	Link #32
Jouten Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2011	I lol'd at Tashigi screaming "Kyaah! How do I turn back?" in Smoker's body. Can't wait for the Anime scene, Smoker's VA will have to dismiss all his manliness. Anyway, I'm not surprised Luffy doesn't go with Law's plan, he said to Jinbei that he doesn't like to follow plans. I still don't trust Law. The fact that he doesn't fight Caesar Clown, makes me think that he could betray the Straw Hats, or simply watch who the stronger ally is and then side with them. His explanation that he needs time to research the drug, doesn't seem really legit to me, because the fight against CC can't be too long if both Luffy and Law fight him at once __________________ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gvH5ATjShc Gear Third: Gomu Gomu Giganto Pistol!

2012-05-30, 20:41	Link #21
grey_1960 Annie Leonhart Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Indiana	^ If that is true then Law will be one hard person to kill. If he ever knows about a major fight then just use that move has his escape plan or a trap.

2012-05-30, 22:08	Link #22
Kona Banned Join Date: Dec 2004	So much Law wank going on..

2012-05-30, 22:10	Link #23
ReaperxKingx Emperor of the Expected Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Florida	Classic Luffy yelling out the secret plan in front of his enemy. I see a King disposition Haki explosion coming soon.

2012-05-30, 22:48	Link #25
ReaperxKingx Emperor of the Expected Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Florida	Pretty much, Luffy's crew fighting in Fishmen Island was like stretching their legs. The real thing begins here, nothing says proving how powerful you are when you are facing marines who are sadists, a guy you fought with before is now a girl, giant slime ball, and a funny looking clown.

2012-06-01, 09:02	Link #34
freakabcd Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: !Mars	Guys, I don't know if we are reading the same chapter! How could you miss that Robin was flying with wings! in the middle of page 18 and on the bottom middle of the same page??!!? p.s. you can rep me if you heard it from me first

2012-06-01, 09:16	Link #35
holypanl Well Rounded Critic Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: In a class of my own.	People are saying that they "do not trust Law". I'm not sure what there is or isn't to trust about Trafalgar Law: he hasn't ever been presented as a fairy godmother to any of the Mugiwara, and he never purported to want anyone's co-operation on the basis of trust. I think lots of readers have forgotten that this manga is about Pirates -- pirates are criminals, fugitives from the law and unscrupulous opportunists. Why are people trying to hold Law to the light of a moral candle? That said, Oda has not much been keeping the plot very "pirate themed", so the Mugiwara crew is mostly a group of daring seamen, and not pirates at all. Had they not declared themselves to be pirates, even after the penetration of Enies' Lobby, they would still not be pirates; they are really just Insurgent Sailors. Not once have they cornered, boarded and looted a single merchant vessel, or held a small port to ransom, or robbed a vessel owned by the crown of any state. They're not pirates, so I suppose having been reading the story from the point of view of these mostly benign insurgent seamen, the readers are assuming that every other crew that has been classified as "pirates" is also nothing but a rogue seafaring clique which doesn't actually do "bad things". EDIT: TBH, it has always bothered me that Oda allowed the Mugiwara crew to be classified as "pirates" from day one. That was really bad logic on his part, IMHO. IIRC, the Strawhats were first reported to the World Government after the Arlong Park arc, when a marine official bitterly sent a photograph of Luffy to the Marines, claiming that he was a very dangerous pirate. Now, that could have been used as a really nice plot device. If Luffy had just set off as an "Adventuring Treasure Seeker", and then a Marine called him in as a villain unjustly, then the story wouldn't be so inconsistent. Tbh, so far all the Mugiwaras have done is hunt other pirates (Bounty Hunting; not a crime), accept large masses of gold from grateful sovereign states (not a crime), and go looking for One Piece (Treasure Seeking; not a crime). I re-assert that had they not been calling themselves pirates for no reason, then after the Enies' Lobby incident, they would have still not been seen as pirates, and just a set of renegade seamen. TL;DR: Trafalgar Law is a real pirate. Stop thinking he won't, or shouldn't do pirate things. All things considered, the Strawhats really do not qualify to be called pirates. __________________ Rev. Niemöller, on Nazi Germany: First they went for communists: and I didn't speak out, not being a communist; Then they came for trade unionists, and I said naught because I wasn't a trade unionist; Then they came for the Jews: and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew; Then they came for me! ...and there was no one left to speak out for me. Last edited by holypanl; 2012-06-01 at 09:27.

2012-06-01, 10:15	Link #38
freakabcd Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: !Mars	I agree with what marvelB just mentioned. Maybe in the One Piece world, there are only two types of crews sailing on the seas. If you are not part of the law enforcement, you are branded a pirate crew. Seems simple if you think about it in this manner. If there were instances of crews sailing the seas (other than simply transporting people & cargo), I don't remember them. Please remind me if they were shown somewhere earlier. As seen from my previous posts, my memory of OP events is a little fuzzy Last edited by freakabcd; 2012-06-01 at 10:21. Reason: added request for memory update :)

2012-06-01, 10:30	Link #40
freakabcd Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: !Mars	Well, what I wanted to say is this: * law enforcement vessels * cargo (human or otherwise) transportation vessels * other vessels Perhaps the "other vessels" are assumed to be "pirate vessels" because they do not have some official insignia denoting them to be from either of the other 2 categories? Also perhaps because they do not have an "official reason" to be travelling on the sea. This is the only way I think it makes sense. I agree that this may very well be a flaw / plot hole, but it doesn't diminish my enjoyment when reading OP.