Character Discussion - Kallen

[Betteroffer]

In all honesty, I admit that one was more more implied than confirmed, but Mrs. Kozuki's rambling while under refrain's effects were something to the effect of "You can go to a Britannian school Kallen. Isn't that great? You won't be picked on anymore."

In one of the sound dramas Suzaku recalls a group of Japanese kids beating Lelouch up, even knowing he's a prince. This wasn't just childish shoving, Lelouch was on the ground shielding a bag of groceries and they were kicking him in the head and torso.

Lelouch had to take this for maybe a month or two while he was at the Kururugi shrine, though possibly less once he became friends with Suzaku and they hung out together. Even if Kallen was getting it half as bad as this, she was still taking it up until part-way through middleschool or early highschool, since whatever Japanese schools she went to were probably not heavily patrolled by Britannian security, and they'd let it happen once they learned she was a half-blood.

The Japanese would love a chance to lay into anyone with a Britannian face, and the fact that Kallen would have the "audacity" to claim she was Japanese too would not be helping her in my mind.

[bladeofdarkness]

i rather think its the OTHER way around
that by being excepted into the stadfeld family kallen would no longer be mistreated y the britannians for being japanese
she also mentions how she would be able to talk on the phone or travel (which i assume was something the japanese werent able to do)
and we saw that it was mostly the japanese who were the ones being mistreated in the show rather then the britannian's

about how kallen "looks"
she spends the entire 1st season being in ashford and no one knows she's japanese
then she does her thing as a bunny girl in a place where japaneses are being used for sport
and no one thinks she looks too britannian for the role
its an odd thing really
especially when you remember that kallen looks ALOT like her brother

though if this IS true, and kallen was being mistreated as a child by the japaese themselves
and she STILL chose to throw away her easy life and fight for them
then i respect her even more then i thought possible for it
because this means that there isnt even a NATIONAL motivation behind her actions, ala "let my people go" thing
its strictly about justice

[Bonzo]

Originally Posted by Betteroffer

Given that Lelouch planned to die by the hands of a friend he had hurt, wouldn't that at least make Tohdoh respect him enough for planning a sort of honor suicide, even if circumstances prevented Lelouch from actually doing it?

I can understand Tohdoh not fully accepting Lelouch, but he should at the very least recognize that Lelouch saved the JLF from complete annihilation in Narita, saved Tohdoh himself from execution in prison, not once but twice, and saved the entire planet twice as well as ushering in a new age of peace.

The knocks against Lelouch are the killing of Katase and the abandoning of the Black Rebellion, since the SAZ and Geass Directorate massacres have been explained to them.

He doesn't need to like or even trust Lelouch, but Tohdoh seems to have some pretty good reasons to at least grudgingly respect him given what he did to help the BK even after they tried to kill him. Lelouch never held any desire to avenge himself on them. That is him being the bigger man by LEAGUES.

As for Tohdoh regarding Kallen as a traitor...that is just him being a d**k to me. Kallen has:
1. Been abused all her life by her fellow Japanese simply because she happened to take after her father in her ethnic appearance, yet she chose to fight for their betterment even though she could have lived better than most Britannians as a Stadtfeld.
2. Been used by her friends and comrades not once but twice, after they went on such a rage about NOT using people.
3. Lost her mother to suicide where she leaves a note basically saying it's Kallen's fault and that she is ASHAMED of all the risks Kallen has taken.
4. Watched her comrades try to side with the very man who planned to kill them and subjugate them just like Charles, right after Lelouch had finally freed their precious country.
5. Lost her friends Shirley and C.C. to death, and Suzaku to his obsessive hatred of Lelouch and anyone who seems to not share his opinion (he vowed to kill Kallen as well if Lelouch tried something).

This has ultimately left Kallen in a broken mess where she wants to just be useful to the last person on earth who seems to care about her...and Tohdoh thinks she's a traitor to Japan? Aside from Naoto, all the Japanese people she knows are ashamed of her, or have tried to kill her, or vowed to do it. Tohdoh, can question her decision yes, but he has no right to question her, and he should know it, being aware of the above points.

...Can you give Tohdoh cancer? Or maybe make him destroy his own life by obsessively monitoring Lelouch waiting for Lelouch to try something?

You must consider my story events start after Charles death, Black knight already betrayed Lelouch, because he used them in a bad way, but strategically he made what they want, in a heavy way, but he did it.
They betrayed him for a question of honor and a trod proud, because after all, they decided Schneizel told the truth without to control any proof, then Ougi & co. seems a party of not very smart people, they forget all the positive act made by Lelouch too much easily (the original poor scenography helped it).

I kept this impression with the fact Ougi decided to cooperate with Schneizel to evade to receive a fleija on the head, but at last Ougi used Kallen to understand better the situation (see chp 22) and what Lelouch want to do, he was perplexed to thrust Schneizel at last.
Then he used that motivation to make upset Kallen on purpose and she give up the black knight, but for Kallen they betrayed her.
After this, Lelouch used his geass to build his "perfect army" to fight schneizel, and a army created with that inhuman way is unacceptable for a man like Tohdou.

At last of the battle, two people know the REAL truth about Lelouch (suzaku, kallen) and the other just the truth written by C.C., Nunnally instead know a partial truth about the two versions, Suzaku and Kallen never told her everything for to evade to hurt her.
Instead world people know something about what Britannia done during Charles empire and Schneizel's fleija terror strategy.

At last, the world "forgived" Lelouch, Ougi partially forgived him too, for respect to Kallen, but at the same time, Lelouch made ugly things and C.C not lied to everything, then they're worried he can do something again in the future, tohdou watch him for this.
Suzaku in comparison with the anime hate the final result, because at last Lelouch didn't know anything about C.C confession but Euphemia was exonerate by her accusation thanks lies, he doesn't kill him because to live was the worst punishment, but all events after, world forgived him, a sort of freedom and Kallen near to him, well....in his opinion, not more justice.

Tohdou doesn't know Kallen's past, for him she's just a soldier mad in love with a man used her and more people like slaves.
At last Tohdou seems a little fanatic in my comic, but he's like that kind of person, otherwise he was able to see the half-full/half-empty glass.

[Nobodyman9]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

i rather think its the OTHER way around
that by being excepted into the stadfeld family kallen would no longer be mistreated y the britannians for being japanese
she also mentions how she would be able to talk on the phone or travel (which i assume was something the japanese werent able to do)
and we saw that it was mostly the japanese who were the ones being mistreated in the show rather then the britannian's

I agree with this. I think what Kallen's mother meant was that it was more beneficial for her because she would be treated as a Britannian and thus be granted more rights and priveleges. It can scarcely be argued that it would be better to be considered an 11 then a Brittanian during that period. Not that it's impossible that her fellow Japanese could have mistreated her due to her Britannian heritage, but I think this is what the writers were going for.

[Bonzo]

About the bunny-girl event, in a episode Kallen say to C.C "why you not do the bunnygirl? we could to spare time..."
In the paradox C.C was MORE less able for that rule, because she's 100% occidental about physic aspect.

@Nobodyman9:
In fact, Kallen's Mum decision wasn't wrong, to live with her father and in a britannia school, Kallen was in a safe and good place.
She made the best choice for her daughter, but after Naoto's death, Kallen becomed a warrior too, then always in the risk to die or to destroy every sacrifice she made to protect her daughter.

Kallen kept to fight and kill people for build a new future to live with her mother, but she couldn't think her mother could to be happy of her knowing her daughter was a murderer with the hands dirt of blood.
The only way to stop Kallen was to delete her motivation to fight then her mother made the extreme sacrifice.

In the original story, well...her mother maybe will be a sort of "zombie" in a bed for the rest of the life, who knows?

[Betteroffer]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

i rather think its the OTHER way around
that by being excepted into the stadfeld family kallen would no longer be mistreated y the britannians for being japanese
she also mentions how she would be able to talk on the phone or travel (which i assume was something the japanese werent able to do)
and we saw that it was mostly the japanese who were the ones being mistreated in the show rather then the britannian's

Yes, but before Britannia took over Japan, Kallen was still living with a Britannian face in a country of people who despised Britannians. I again point to the assault on Lelouch by people who knew he was a prince.

What I'm saying is that Kallen grew up with the "face of the enemy" before the invasion and was unintentionally a reminder of their oppression after it. The Japanese were just as racist as the Britannians, and they would love to lash out at anyone who looked Britannian, especially knowing this person wasn't regarded as a full Britannian so they wouldn't get in trouble (11 on 11 violence wasn't a major concern of the Britannians). Just think about the discrimination multi-ethnic people suffered in colonial times and even today. The expression is "Too black for the whites, and too white for the blacks."

Also, the Stadtfelds still had to keep Kallen's ethnicity a secret. Remember Kallen's response in Stage 9 when Milly shows up with her middleschool records? Milly herself said it was the sort of thing she didn't want to do at school for Kallen's sake.

Remember when Euphemia was judging those paintings the museum curator admitted to Euphemia's face that there was a painting done by someone who was only one quarter Japanese, and he was only even putting it there as a token gesture.

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

about how kallen "looks"
she spends the entire 1st season being in ashford and no one knows she's japanese
then she does her thing as a bunny girl in a place where japaneses are being used for sport
and no one thinks she looks too britannian for the role
its an odd thing really
especially when you remember that kallen looks ALOT like her brother

I have yet to hear the staff's words on that, being through make-up or a plothole. I believe that Kallen was predominantly Britannian in appearance if she could pass off as Britannian in a school full of them, and they might still have suspected her of being part Number if she looked at all asian.

She has a similar hairstyle to Naoto's when it's worn down, but I recall her skin being slightly lighter and both Naoto and Mrs. Kozuki had brown hair. I think these things were supposed to imply (as much as anime can) that they were Japanese in appearance and she wasn't.

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

though if this IS true, and kallen was being mistreated as a child by the japaese themselves
and she STILL chose to throw away her easy life and fight for them
then i respect her even more then i thought possible for it
because this means that there isnt even a NATIONAL motivation behind her actions, ala "let my people go" thing
its strictly about justice

This is my belief of her, yes.

[synaesthetic]

The racism of Britannia seems to not be based on skin color or nationality, but on family name and bloodline.

Viletta Nu is a Britannian noble, but she is clearly not Anglo-Saxon. And she is never discriminated against.

[Bonzo]

Originally Posted by synaesthetic

The racism of Britannia seems to not be based on skin color or nationality, but on family name and bloodline.

Viletta Nu is a Britannian noble, but she is clearly not Anglo-Saxon. And she is never discriminated against.

Ehm...Villetta wasn't a noble, she was under pureblood britannia order with the hope to obtain a title.

[ZeroSama]

Originally Posted by synaesthetic

The racism of Britannia seems to not be based on skin color or nationality, but on family name and bloodline.

Viletta Nu is a Britannian noble, but she is clearly not Anglo-Saxon. And she is never discriminated against.

The racism of Britannia is based on Nationality. If your not Britannian your sub-human to them.

If you look back on the history of the CG world when Britain lost the Battle of Waterloo all of Europes surviving Royalty and Nobility buggered off to the Americas with the British Monarchy being top dogs.

Since people of different skin colours are not oppressed its most likely that the Royals and Aristocracy either formed alliances or where all eventually consolidated into Britannia through political marriages giving birth to the H.E.B. In essence everyone in the North and South Americas would be a naturalised Britannian citizen and not a number.

[synaesthetic]

Originally Posted by Bonzo

Ehm...Villetta wasn't a noble, she was under pureblood britannia order with the hope to obtain a title.

She was made a baron for her role in capturing Zero. She even mentions this a few times in R2. Viletta may be Britannian but she sure as hell isn't white, so her nationality can't be any more English than Xingke's.

[Bonzo]

However, no afro-american characters, this is a confirm.

Dark-skinned people, but not black person.

[bladeofdarkness]

the "black king" dude seems pretty black to me
and he not only seems to be britannian, but he treats the elevens like merchandise, BECAUSE they are elevens, and hence, have no rights
and the fact that he applies the same treatment to kallen, who can pass for a britannian in ashford, seems to indicate that this is not so much based on race as it does on the national views
if you aint britannian, you aint shit

[Bonzo]

The black king was a mafia/gangster more of a nobleman, then...who knows?

[bladeofdarkness]

doesnt matter
he is a prominent and well known (according to lelouch) britannian
which means that britannians arent limited by race
so you dont have to be "white as the driven snow" to be considered britannian

[Torri_fay_torren@hot]

As to Kallen bieng persacuted. She's a half blood. If people knew about it, she wouldn't be accepted anywere by some people. before she lived with her Japanese mom and I guess people knew so they picked on her. At the same time when she moved in with her Dad the people at the school didn't know. She lived like a Brit so she had privlidges. But Kallen knew that if she was ful Jap she would be treated just as bad. And she might get picked on even in her fancy new school if people knew her heritage. Kallen choose the high road. She could have just kept her head down but thats not the kind of person she is.

[bladeofdarkness]

and just to try and spark some life into this thread that seems to have died a bit

does anyone else find it symbolic that by the end of the anime the guren ends up matching its pilot
its now half japanese and half britannian
just like kallen

[incorrupts]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

and just to try and spark some life into this thread that seems to have died a bit

does anyone else find it symbolic that by the end of the anime the guren ends up matching its pilot
its now half japanese and half britannian
just like kallen

Lol, what do you mean?

[bladeofdarkness]

rakshata (its mother) is made it and raised it to be the pride of japan (first japanese made KMF) and gave it all of her coolest toys
then it got handed to Lloyd (arguably its father, after the change) who pimped it up like a motherfucker and turned it into a MUCH more powerful machine by adding HIS coolest toys
by the end the guren is arguably as much a britannian KMF as it is a japanese one
the design was japanese (and used as the base for all future japanese KMF's)
but it later "grew up" and "inherited" other britannian fetures

and the final result is a knightmare that is both japanese AND britannian
although it still considers itself japanese (it fights for japan)

on some level this matchs kallen
born to a japanese mother and britannian father (half and half)
raised by her mother, and only later taken in by her father (and given considerable advantages by him)
but in the end still considers herself japanese
there are OTHER similarities (red color, blue eyes, fiery "attitude")

[incorrupts]

Well, i would not call it symbolism, as in, concepts like this, are supposed to be more meaningful and hidden. And the way Guren got upgraded and sthi, that was a natural outcome mostly.
But yeah, the blue eyes/color and stuff, match Kallen's personality and "looks" in a way. I would say, "nice touch Sunrise" more than "that was symbolic."

[Yorae_paladin1]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

i rather think its the OTHER way around
that by being excepted into the stadfeld family kallen would no longer be mistreated y the britannians for being japanese
she also mentions how she would be able to talk on the phone or travel (which i assume was something the japanese werent able to do)
and we saw that it was mostly the japanese who were the ones being mistreated in the show rather then the britannian's

about how kallen "looks"
she spends the entire 1st season being in ashford and no one knows she's japanese
then she does her thing as a bunny girl in a place where japaneses are being used for sport
and no one thinks she looks too britannian for the role
its an odd thing really
especially when you remember that kallen looks ALOT like her brother

though if this IS true, and kallen was being mistreated as a child by the japaese themselves
and she STILL chose to throw away her easy life and fight for them
then i respect her even more then i thought possible for it
because this means that there isnt even a NATIONAL motivation behind her actions, ala "let my people go" thing
its strictly about justice

Spoiler:

that reminds in the manga when suzakus shirt was painted over when he first got to ashford it wasn't britannian students who did it it was japanese students writting disgrace to japan

So yeah that kallen may have been mistreated by japanese themselves could be possible.