AnimeSuki Forums

KiraYamatoFan · 2012-09-17, 14:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by risingstar3110

Well they can't do that if the player go down too easy like in that case of the same match:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images...fde0a98bo.gif/

He got a penalty btw. Sad thing is, this is not even the case where result is too crucial, and the odd too high that the player forced into diving. i believed the match ended up with a big win to MU, and the opponent is one of the weakest EPL team. And that is not even cheating anymore, as i believe they called "professional fault/simulations" or things like that. And one of the main reason that Australia (and probably US) don't like 'soccer'. They prefer 'footy' where players literally murder each other on the field

Fully agree with that. There are times I wonder what the ref is thinking when there's an assistant he can speak up to about giving or not a penalty decision.

It's a matter of culture shift indeed: since more players from Mediteranean countries and Latin America moved outside of their respective countries, that culture of simulating spread out like wild fire. In the 1990s, you wouldn't see too many players trying cheating on such a regular basis because the refs tolerated physical play more. Right now, FIFA and the refs don't have the balls to tolerate full-blooded tackles any more; it's almost a non-touch sport they are trying to sell as a product.

Bri · 2012-09-17, 17:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by KiraYamatoFan

Right now, FIFA and the refs don't have the balls to tolerate full-blooded tackles any more; it's almost a non-touch sport they are trying to sell as a product.

Unfortunately the softer *pretty* version sells very well, especially in new football markets. Ever since FIFA got a taste of the big money in WC94, their aim has been to "move up" football on the social ladder to make it attractive for the middle class with it's massive spending power. Before the 90s football was primarily a working class game, nasty and foul at times but it had heart.

FIFA tweaked the rules to get rid of the hard men, made defending more difficult to increase the scoring. It's no surprise that show ponies like Ronaldo and Messi are breaking ancient records. If things weren't bad enough, men like Murdoch have taken the peoples game from public channels and hid it on pay TV.

Has the money made things better? Not really. Sure, there are nicer stadiums now, but ticket prices have gone through the roof. International football has become a joke, a dozen big brands clubs who are experts at selling an image merchandise to a global audience and scoop up all the top talent. The sport hasn't been this uncompetitive since the 1950s...

/rant

anyway, fortunately there are places around that still "get it". For example Union Berlin taking the piss at the fad of selling the stadium name to a sponsor:

Always Ultra Arena

RapidPotential · 2012-09-17, 21:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by risingstar3110

Well they can't do that if the player go down too easy like in that case of the same match:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images...fde0a98bo.gif/

He got a penalty btw. Sad thing is, this is not even the case where result is too crucial, and the odd too high that the player forced into diving. i believed the match ended up with a big win to MU, and the opponent is one of the weakest EPL team. And that is not even cheating anymore, as i believe they called "professional fault/simulations" or things like that. And one of the main reason that Australia (and probably US) don't like 'soccer'. They prefer 'footy' where players literally murder each other on the field

The horror of this reality is when you actually realise that young players in youth academies are sometimes taught to go down whenever they can, especially in the case of Barcelona or Porto. In Brazil, so-called "star" players are very much revered and favoured so to prevent injuries to them, they are taught to fake fouls and simulate it, and usually the opponent gets sent off, without even touching the player (a good recent case would be Neymar).

I rarely see players try to stay on their feet after riding challenges. Players like Oxlade-Chamberlain are appreciated and a rarity these days because he may be young, yet I've seen him ride numerous challenges, and he probably could have won fouls for some of them. However, not sure how he manages to stay on his feet (incredible physical resistance, I'd say) and to be honest I'd love to see more youngsters play like he does.

Back on to the subject of Welbeck; he's a crap player, according to United fans I know. They rate Hernandez higher.

KiraYamatoFan · 2012-09-17, 23:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by RapidPotential

The horror of this reality is when you actually realise that young players in youth academies are sometimes taught to go down whenever they can, especially in the case of Barcelona or Porto. In Brazil, so-called "star" players are very much revered and favoured so to prevent injuries to them, they are taught to fake fouls and simulate it, and usually the opponent gets sent off, without even touching the player (a good recent case would be Neymar).

...

Back on to the subject of Welbeck; he's a crap player, according to United fans I know. They rate Hernandez higher.

Even if it might be taught in some academies, that doesn't mean that the refs have to bite as often as they currently do. It's one thing to love superstars and desiring to see them perform, but to create an entire environment without risks... C'MON MAN!!! as they would say.

As Bri mentioned, perhaps FIFA wants to sell a "cleaner" product by tweaking the rules to get rid of hard men, but I think it's wrong because many people love to see players who show fighting spirit out there. Since I grew up in a hockey culture, I guess that I love to see some fighting spirit in sports in general (BTW, even middle-class people in Canada love tough and/or hard-working guys in hockey). That's also probably why I became attracted to Manchester United and the English Premier League many years ago. The days when we had the likes of (Roy) Keane, Deschamps, Vieira, Gattuso, Stam, Adams, and other hard men in football were the best because superstars had no choice but to harden themselves too.

Same for me about Welbeck. There are people who build hopes for him because he comes from the Manchester area, but I don't think he'll get better than Darren Bent or Emile Heskey when it comes about a career path. Welbeck is such a mess in his footwork inside the box; and his finishing... let's not talk about it. Meanwhile, Chicharito is starting to find his marks back again and deserves to be the number 3 striker in the pecking order.

Kokukirin · 2012-09-18, 01:34

There should be a panel reviewing possibly deliberate simulations and dish out suspensions to the clear offenders. Right now the harshest possible punishment for simulation is a yellow card, and that happens very rarely. The award is so far greater than the risk that it makes perfect sense for players to simulate. To offset it, greater risk is the only way forward.

Too bad it will never happen.

RapidPotential · 2012-09-18, 05:50

Everybody wants to see some fight and passion in players and going for full-on 50-50s are a part of the game that is appreciated because of the determination and spirit the players show for the cause of their team. The way referees deal with simulation is also inconsistent; you will see Bale (lolwut) surprisingly booked for diving twice last season, yet Welbeck gets away with this against Wigan.

The reasoning about simulation/diving is that sometimes referees just do not give fouls for blatant enough offences unless the player goes down, and that players have this mindset of "I have to go down to get the foul", especially near the opponent's penalty area.

I personally scoff at that justification because it's only encouraging players to go down even more.

@KiraYamatoFan: That's the reason why I feel Maradona is ahead of Messi - he had to resist challenges that outright tried to butcher and maim him, and still managed to emerge from the hard-men period as the best ever. Even Pelé, you could see the kind of disgusting challenges laid upon him during the 1966 World Cup.

As for Welbeck, I never felt he added anything extra from United because he has average skill in almost everything except for good pace and tireless running. Most of his goals are easy and few are by instinct, unlike Hernandez. If anything, the lack of Rooney makes Welbeck look really average.

SaintessHeart · 2012-09-18, 07:55

The Champions League starts tonight, but neither StarHub nor SingTel have secured broadcasting rights. How do you feel about this?

Time to riot outside their headquarters at Raffles Place no?

UPDATE : Looks like Singtel got the rights. They are supposed to be showing.

RapidPotential · 2012-09-18, 08:20

I'll have to miss tonight's Champions League clash. Need to sleep early because of my priorities as a person, not a fan.

SaintessHeart · 2012-09-18, 10:12

Note : I am still hanging here. Nobody knows if the contract went through or down under. Apparently they aren't airing tonight.......

EDIT :

Confirmed. Singtel got the contract. But they are not airing anything but Real Madrid vs Man CIty and Montpellier vs Arsenal.

solomon · 2012-09-18, 14:36

Halftime, it's tough being a yank with no money having to watch UEFA on little ass streaming but I like what im seeing from the Gunners

Terrestrial Dream · 2012-09-18, 15:35

Holy crap... what a game what was between City and Real.

Blaat · 2012-09-18, 15:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terrestrial Dream

Holy crap... what a game what was between City and Real.

This. This. and This.

I know most people here will start talking about Arsenal (surprisingly this forum has a high amount of gunners) but damn that match in Bernabéu...

solomon · 2012-09-18, 15:56

Wow, I'm sad I missed that one! I heard it was a hell of a match!

Irenicus · 2012-09-18, 17:24

They're all saying it was a thriller. I missed it too. T_T

RapidPotential · 2012-09-18, 21:18

I just saw Ronaldo's goal. It's got vicious dip but Hart should really do better if he is to be an undisputed world-class player. I'm betting it'll be another high-scoring affair back at the Etihad Stadium.

Merilyn Mensola · 2012-09-23, 09:58

AC. Milan lost also today

i can't stand anymore

.......................

Someone please help my AC. Milan..

Mesbha in 90m no one cross was right...no one..i can't believe i have to see something like this..i am more stronger than him damn

haaaaaaaa!!!!!

F***** Galliani and Berlusconi.

risingstar3110 · 2012-09-23, 10:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merilyn Mensola

AC. Milan lost also today

i can't stand anymore

.......................

Someone please help my AC. Milan..

Mesbha in 90m no one cross was right...no one..i can't believe i have to see something like this..i am more stronger than him damn

haaaaaaaa!!!!!

F***** Galliani and Berlusconi.

Well it's nice to lose and still able to blame the team incompetency. It's a sight that the result may change under different management/ ownership.

In my case, my team was royally screwed over by the referee, and knowing how corrupted FA always react, there's no change for improvement. I means in what sport apart 'soccer', where referee can change scoreline through penalties kicks and give out number advantage (through red card) to one team over their 'hunch'? Then the club, the players, even the fans can't voice opinions or challenge ref without getting trouble by the dictatorship of those football organization. Here is one of the challenge that ruined the game, with players in red got red card for 2-foots(?) challenge)

Great if your team was granted the advantage. Not so if yours are not. This 'thing' does not classified as sport for me. Luckily that i already gradually stopped watching soccer and get down to only follow the results now. Horrible sport to follow.

RapidPotential · 2012-09-24, 04:00

Great point away at the Etihad, we really dominated them on their garden, but made a hash of it with one badly-defended set-piece.

Cazorla's just brilliant, every game he makes things happen. Jenkinson with his greatest ever game so far of his young career, and Per Mertesacker a rock at the back. Kos the Boss marked his first start of the season with our equaliser, what an effort! Lescott scored one and gave the ball away to Koscielny for his.

About the tackle between Shelvey and Evans, I'd just like to say a word in fairness, as a neutral: The one who made contact first gets the red in this situation. Shelvey's studs clearly went into Evans' shin first; it didn't even matter that both of them were probably going in two-footed on a 50-50 challenge. Had both players emerged hurt, the right decision would be to send off both of them for dangerous play.

Elo the Blue · 2012-09-24, 15:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by RapidPotential

Great point away at the Etihad, we really dominated them on their garden, but made a hash of it with one badly-defended set-piece.

Cazorla's just brilliant, every game he makes things happen. Jenkinson with his greatest ever game so far of his young career, and Per Mertesacker a rock at the back. Kos the Boss marked his first start of the season with our equaliser, what an effort! Lescott scored one and gave the ball away to Koscielny for his.

Couldn't agree more. The point was nice but it could and maybe should have been a win. Santi is the man; I can feel a long-range goal from him is coming. And Koscielny has quietly developed into a damn good CB.

RapidPotential · 2012-09-24, 22:05

Indeed. Koscielny is just about there and in another year or two, might be considered world-class. His anticipation of danger and his pace is just fantastic but he'd do good to cut out risky challenges in the box. Although, it is his first start in a long while. Probably rusty. That clearance and challenge on Aguero gave me chills.

We were also often criticised for not taking long-range shots when there clearly was an opportunity to. Now, that should be out the window because Santi's ability from range has already tested some goalkeepers.

2012-09-18, 07:55	Link #4027
SaintessHeart NYAAAAHAAANNNNN~ Join Date: Nov 2007 Age: 35	The Champions League starts tonight, but neither StarHub nor SingTel have secured broadcasting rights. How do you feel about this? Time to riot outside their headquarters at Raffles Place no? UPDATE : Looks like Singtel got the rights. They are supposed to be showing. __________________ When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus. Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing. Last edited by SaintessHeart; 2012-09-18 at 08:05.

2012-09-18, 10:12	Link #4029
SaintessHeart NYAAAAHAAANNNNN~ Join Date: Nov 2007 Age: 35	Note : I am still hanging here. Nobody knows if the contract went through or down under. Apparently they aren't airing tonight....... EDIT : Confirmed. Singtel got the contract. But they are not airing anything but Real Madrid vs Man CIty and Montpellier vs Arsenal. __________________ When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus. Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing. Last edited by SaintessHeart; 2012-09-18 at 11:18.

2012-09-18, 15:35	Link #4031
Terrestrial Dream 勇者 Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Tesla Leicht Institute Age: 34	Holy crap... what a game what was between City and Real. __________________

2012-09-23, 09:58	Link #4036
Merilyn Mensola I am a Boxer Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Where hot girls are fighting!	AC. Milan lost also today i can't stand anymore ....................... Someone please help my AC. Milan.. Mesbha in 90m no one cross was right...no one..i can't believe i have to see something like this..i am more stronger than him damn haaaaaaaa!!!!! F***** Galliani and Berlusconi. __________________

2012-09-18, 01:34	Link #4025
Kokukirin Shadow of Effilisi Join Date: Oct 2011	There should be a panel reviewing possibly deliberate simulations and dish out suspensions to the clear offenders. Right now the harshest possible punishment for simulation is a yellow card, and that happens very rarely. The award is so far greater than the risk that it makes perfect sense for players to simulate. To offset it, greater risk is the only way forward. Too bad it will never happen.

2012-09-18, 05:50	Link #4026
RapidPotential Spinning round and round~ Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Singapore Age: 32	Everybody wants to see some fight and passion in players and going for full-on 50-50s are a part of the game that is appreciated because of the determination and spirit the players show for the cause of their team. The way referees deal with simulation is also inconsistent; you will see Bale (lolwut) surprisingly booked for diving twice last season, yet Welbeck gets away with this against Wigan. The reasoning about simulation/diving is that sometimes referees just do not give fouls for blatant enough offences unless the player goes down, and that players have this mindset of "I have to go down to get the foul", especially near the opponent's penalty area. I personally scoff at that justification because it's only encouraging players to go down even more. @KiraYamatoFan: That's the reason why I feel Maradona is ahead of Messi - he had to resist challenges that outright tried to butcher and maim him, and still managed to emerge from the hard-men period as the best ever. Even Pelé, you could see the kind of disgusting challenges laid upon him during the 1966 World Cup. As for Welbeck, I never felt he added anything extra from United because he has average skill in almost everything except for good pace and tireless running. Most of his goals are easy and few are by instinct, unlike Hernandez. If anything, the lack of Rooney makes Welbeck look really average.

2012-09-18, 08:20	Link #4028
RapidPotential Spinning round and round~ Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Singapore Age: 32	I'll have to miss tonight's Champions League clash. Need to sleep early because of my priorities as a person, not a fan.

2012-09-18, 14:36	Link #4030
solomon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Suburban DC	Halftime, it's tough being a yank with no money having to watch UEFA on little ass streaming but I like what im seeing from the Gunners

2012-09-18, 15:56	Link #4033
solomon Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Suburban DC	Wow, I'm sad I missed that one! I heard it was a hell of a match!

2012-09-18, 17:24	Link #4034
Irenicus Le fou, c'est moi Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Las Vegas, NV, USA Age: 34	They're all saying it was a thriller. I missed it too. T_T

2012-09-18, 21:18	Link #4035
RapidPotential Spinning round and round~ Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Singapore Age: 32	I just saw Ronaldo's goal. It's got vicious dip but Hart should really do better if he is to be an undisputed world-class player. I'm betting it'll be another high-scoring affair back at the Etihad Stadium.

2012-09-24, 04:00	Link #4038
RapidPotential Spinning round and round~ Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Singapore Age: 32	Great point away at the Etihad, we really dominated them on their garden, but made a hash of it with one badly-defended set-piece. Cazorla's just brilliant, every game he makes things happen. Jenkinson with his greatest ever game so far of his young career, and Per Mertesacker a rock at the back. Kos the Boss marked his first start of the season with our equaliser, what an effort! Lescott scored one and gave the ball away to Koscielny for his. About the tackle between Shelvey and Evans, I'd just like to say a word in fairness, as a neutral: The one who made contact first gets the red in this situation. Shelvey's studs clearly went into Evans' shin first; it didn't even matter that both of them were probably going in two-footed on a 50-50 challenge. Had both players emerged hurt, the right decision would be to send off both of them for dangerous play.

2012-09-24, 22:05	Link #4040
RapidPotential Spinning round and round~ Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Singapore Age: 32	Indeed. Koscielny is just about there and in another year or two, might be considered world-class. His anticipation of danger and his pace is just fantastic but he'd do good to cut out risky challenges in the box. Although, it is his first start in a long while. Probably rusty. That clearance and challenge on Aguero gave me chills. We were also often criticised for not taking long-range shots when there clearly was an opportunity to. Now, that should be out the window because Santi's ability from range has already tested some goalkeepers.