Penguin Drum - Episode 15 Discussion / Poll

[Nina.Wolken]

Originally Posted by zeando

what if shouma's friend was the one to lead him there at that precise place and time?

That was him, he says it himelf.

I knew something bothered me in the new opening : Those shoes!

[Haak]

That foot looks far too small to be Yuri's...

[risingstar3110]

Originally Posted by Haak

That foot looks far too small to be Yuri's...

Nice spotting, and i thought it hinted at a Yuri x Tabuki end...

As crazy as it can be, if Nina.Wolken is correct, then Himari is Momoka? I don't think a red shoe can indicate that through

[Nina.Wolken]

Originally Posted by risingstar3110

As crazy as it can be, if Nina.Wolken is correct, then Himari is Momoka? I don't think a red shoe can indicate that through

It depends on whose memory Himari saw when she descended from the Library to her hospital bed.
If that was her own memory, then Tabuki is kissing Himari's shoe.
If it was the Hat memory, than Tabuki is kissing the foot of the hat inhabitant, ie, Momoka.

Edit: Momoka's shoes in episode 15 : Those are the one Tabuki is kissing. Is left to see if those are the same than the Child Boiler ones...

[Gohan78]

Tabuki kissing Momoka's little foot in the OP is disturbing in a pedo way.

I don't buy the "sex reassignment surgery" theory. For one, Yuri had plenty of time and money to remove any unwanted "appendage"... Second, I don't think that a sculptor has the ability to perform such a surgery. Third, if he was just taking skin grafts from Yuri then why did she wear a sling on her arm?
I think the chisels were a metaphor for physical abuse and/or rape and that he was going to kill her on the final night.

Given the mechanic of Momoka's diary, now I think that Momoka used the diary to change something BIG on March 20, 1995 and consequently the diary took all of her body as payment. That's why they never found any trace of her. This reminds me of Full Metal Alchemist when "God" took all of Al's body as payment for the human transmutation.

[zeando]

Originally Posted by Nina.Wolken

Is left to see if those are the same than the Child Boiler ones...

it may be the apple promise in the child broiler was tabuki and momoka?

Originally Posted by Gohan78

Tabuki kissing Momoka's little foot in the OP is disturbing in a pedo way.

lol why? they're the same age xD only momoka died while being a child

[risingstar3110]

Originally Posted by Gohan78

Tabuki kissing Momoka's little foot in the OP is disturbing in a pedo way.

I don't buy the "sex reassignment surgery" theory. For one, Yuri had plenty of time and money to remove any unwanted "appendage"... Second, I don't think that a sculptor has the ability to perform such a surgery. Third, if he was just taking skin grafts from Yuri then why did she wear a sling on her arm?
I think the chisels were a metaphor for physical abuse and/or rape and that he was going to kill her on the final night.

Given the mechanic of Momoka's diary, now I think that Momoka used the diary to change something BIG on March 20, 1995 and consequently the diary took all of her body as payment. That's why they never found any trace of her. This reminds me of Full Metal Alchemist when "God" took all of Al's body as payment for the human transmutation.

Agree on this ^

But then it means, despite how bad that 1995 event seems to be, it was actually already minimised by Momoka's power. Maybe the whole city died in the original world. Momoka then, to save her unborn sister and her two friends (Yuri+ Tabuki), reduced the damage down to only that train?

[zeando]

Originally Posted by Gohan78

I don't buy the "sex reassignment surgery" theory. For one, Yuri had plenty of time and money to remove any unwanted "appendage"... Second, I don't think that a sculptor has the ability to perform such a surgery. Third, if he was just taking skin grafts from Yuri then why did she wear a sling on her arm?
I think the chisels were a metaphor for physical abuse and/or rape and that he was going to kill her on the final night.

and what if yuri's dad being a "sculptor" was that also a metaphor for being a aestetics surceon? :P

Originally Posted by Gohan78

Given the mechanic of Momoka's diary, now I think that Momoka used the diary to change something BIG on March 20, 1995 and consequently the diary took all of her body as payment. That's why they never found any trace of her. This reminds me of Full Metal Alchemist when "God" took all of Al's body as payment for the human transmutation.

hope it wasn't saving tabuki from the gas attack, that would make a nice loop

Originally Posted by Nina.Wolken

That was him, he says it himelf.

so we have our reason for this great coincidence, that friend looks suspicious =.= (for him being never shown in the openings probably he'll remain an hidden fate/plot binder)

[risingstar3110]

Originally Posted by zeando

and what if yuri's dad being a "sculptor" was that also a metaphor for being a aestetics surceon? :P

hope it wasn't saving tabuki from the gas attack, that would make a nice loop

so we have our reason for this great coincidence, that friend looks suspicious =.= (for him being never shown in the openings probably he'll remain an hidden fate/plot binder)

Then that Adam statue can't relate to his line of work, and there is no reason to change it

[Nina.Wolken]

Originally Posted by Gohan78

Tabuki kissing Momoka's little foot in the OP is disturbing in a pedo way.

Not more than Sanetoshi falling in love with a 10 years old Momoka and calling her his "lover", or Kanba attract to his 13 years old sister.
Ikuhara pulled it already in Utena, but at least both Utana and Anthy, despite being 14, had full-fledged women bodies. Here Himari really does look like a kid and Momoka is literally one .

[risingstar3110]

Originally Posted by Nina.Wolken

Not more than Sanetoshi falling in love with a 10 years old Momoka and calling her his "lover", or Kanba attract to his 13 years old sister.
Ikuhara pulled it already in Utena, but at least both Utana and Anthy, despite being 14, had full-fledged women bodies. Here Himari really does look like a kid and Momoka is one .

They are 14? Are you sure they are not at least 16? That Akio should be rotten in jail then.

Natsume is a little bit older than Kanba, isn't she? Like 17 or so. Then Ringo is 16, Yuri is, i guess around 22-26.

[Nina.Wolken]

Originally Posted by risingstar3110

They are 14? Are you sure they are not at least 16? That Akio should be rotten in jail then.

You only understand how messed up RGU is when you realize Utena and Anthy are indeed 14 and in their 2nd year of middle school. Welcome in Ikuhara's world, for the best and worst .

[Kirarakim]

Originally Posted by Nina.Wolken

Someone said before he/she thought something was up with that classmate and I admit I was skeptic but hell, something is definitely odd. Why can't we see his face? How comes he is always the one connecting Shouma and Ringo?

At first I was like no that character is too silly but then I was like wait and I also remembered that he was the 1st person to show Ringo to Shouma. Now I am really liking this theory.

And you know it would be nice if that character had a purpose besides just random friend (well there are still Ringo's two friends who fit this).

Originally Posted by Tjfarmer

Funny though, Shouma actually didn't do shit Ya, he was conveniently there ready to save the day, but instead he tripped and hit his head.

Natsume was the true hero for the Ringo Rape Saga (Part 2)!

Well I meant that Shouma being there had nothing to do with finding a solution for saving Ringo from rape (because there were plenty of other solutions). Although we could argue that Shouma bursting in there was what made Yuri change her mind.

But I really think the point of having Shouma there had nothing to do with the rape at all just that Ringo & Shouma are drawn together (even in seemingly contrived circumstances) by fate.

This show is so surreal and symbolic that I am not sure why people would not stop to think there is a deeper reason for that scene.

Originally Posted by Nina.Wolken

You only understand how messed up RGU is when you realize Utena and Anthy are indeed 14 and in their 2nd year of middle school. Welcome in Ikuhara's world, for the best and worst .

I first thought having seen Utena I was prepared for everything Ikuhara would throw at me with this series. But well after episode 15 I'm not really sure.


Anyways I am kind of hoping the Tabuki kissing Momoka's shoe thing is just meant to be symbolic and there won't be any sexual stuff involving children in this show. It was actually a really cool shot in the opening but it also creeped me out a bit.

[zeando]

Originally Posted by risingstar3110

Then that Adam statue can't relate to his line of work, and there is no reason to change it

dunno, i found that tower/statue to be very odd
if i had to give it a metaphorical explanation that tower would be the manifest of yuri's father ideal of beauty, so momoka didn't altered a phisical tower, but a simbol which was the cause of yuri's suffering
but if we take all as what we see, yes yuri's father is a sculptor and he's simply mad

Originally Posted by Nina.Wolken

Someone said before he/she thought something was up with that classmate and I admit I was skeptic but hell, something is definitely odd. Why can't we see his face? How comes he is always the one connecting Shouma and Ringo?

new random guess: shouma's friend is cupid xD

about shouma being a clutz, maybe the penguin#2 ostracized him on purpose, being the penguin invisible to others, maybe the glass bottles were not phisical too :P

[Ghostfriendly]

Great episode, moving from Murakami to Phillip K. Dick. I think rather than warping reality, the 'fates' the diary moved Yuri into a parallel universes (where her father died before he could build the 'David' tower or abuse her). Rather than dying to prevent a worse gas attack, Momoka used the diary to move herself to another universe (possibly the extra-dimensional library). So Ringo and Yuri may still have a chance to find her!

Momoka said that disasters happen to loved ones of people who use the diary. Could some use of the diary in the past be the reason that Himari is so sick?

Can't wait to see how everything will turn out. Interesting to read ideas about Shouma's friend having a hidden agenda; as it stand the next room thing was a cooincidence, but hilarious when Shouma finally realised.

[zeando]

Originally Posted by Ghostfriendly

Momoka said that disasters happen to loved ones of people who use the diary. Could some use of the diary in the past be the reason that Himari is so sick?

the diary could be the torch ashes from shouma's tale of the tree and the lambs

[Kazu-kun]

Now that I think about it Ringo couldn't possible answer Shouma's call, or make the first one, since she was bondaged. Meaning that Yuri likely called the number, then whispered in Ringo's ear to have her say whatever she wanted. And then when shoma called back it was the same thing again. Why she wanted to create a situation for Shouma to be there, who knows. It's all fate anyway, and maybe it was written in the diary after all.

It makes me think, Momoka knew that Yuri was going to die, meaning it was written in her diary that it was going to happen that way. So the diary not only can be used to alter fate, but also shows you the original fate.

[Malkuth]

About Tabuki kissing Momoka's feet... it's as much sexual / pedo / or whatever as it is necrophilia (Momoka being long dead et al). Tabuki (as well as Yuri and Ringo) are still bound by her actions and influence, never able to move on with their own lives, ina sense enslaved to her, if anything that's what kissing her foot implies.

For the alleged rape attempt by Yuri, just keep in mind that she wanted revenge against Shouma, and she was willingly following Yuri's lead... so I am not saying that Yuri was not manipulating/seducing/taking advantage of her emotional frailty (pick what you like), but also that she wanted to be manipulated/seduced/etc. Now is that rape? By the modern ultra-conservative definitions, yes... but according to those the majority of sexual acts today would also be

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Malkuth

For the alleged rape attempt by Yuri, just keep in mind that she wanted revenge against Shouma, and she was willingly following Yuri's lead... so I am not saying that Yuri was not manipulating/seducing/taking advantage of her emotional frailty (pick what you like), but also that she wanted to be manipulated/seduced/etc.

I totally disagree. Ringo was drugged out of her mind. Assigning the word "willingly" to her in such a state is nonsense IMO.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Malkuth

For the alleged rape attempt by Yuri, just keep in mind that she wanted revenge against Shouma, and she was willingly following Yuri's lead...

So you're saying that it was Ringo's intention to make her night out with Yuri seem like a night of lesbian passion, so she could then call Sho and try to make him feel jealous over it?

That's vaguely possible, I guess, but I find it unlikely. Wouldn't Ringo bring this idea up to Yuri before the point of getting drugged if this was Ringo's plan all along?

...so I am not saying that Yuri was not manipulating/seducing/taking advantage of her emotional frailty (pick what you like), but also that she wanted to be manipulated/seduced/etc.

I doubt that Ringo wanted to be drugged.


That being said, I do consider Episode 15 as evidence that Ringo is not 100% heterosexual, and is willing to go yuri for the right girl.