AnimeSuki Forums

Miraluka · 2013-02-25, 12:59

Well, ep.08 was sad, jus seeing how Hyoubu's world collapsed in just some minutes from the person he trusted the most...

I find it weird but I have a feeling someone forced the guy to do that.

Haak · 2013-02-25, 15:04

Well I thought it was a really good episode up until the end where we saw a massive timeskip that shoved in Hyoubu killing his captain. The lack of perspective from Fujiko or any of the other characters of this event was particularly grating.

Clarste · 2013-02-25, 15:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haak

Well I thought it was a really good episode up until the end where we saw a massive timeskip that shoved in Hyoubu killing his captain. The lack of perspective from Fujiko or any of the other characters of this event was particularly grating.

That's actually a side effect of the chapters in the manga they were pulled from. The manga originally showed the scene where he gets shot way before we see anything else. So all those other characters and his relationships with them didn't even exist when it was written.

Of course, that doesn't excuse the anime for it. This was a place where some anime-original material would have been very appreciated. Overall, I'd say that's the main flaw with this flashback arc. It's been trying to be completely faithful the manga, but does so at the cost of its own storytelling. It's not well integrated at all.

RRW · 2013-02-25, 15:25

hmm never knew they end the flashback very fast. still is very sad to see your father figure is betray you. thought is bit justified. Is like saying if you know Hitler will created WW2. of course you kill him before that happens to prevent it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clarste

That's actually a side effect of the chapters in the manga they were pulled from. The manga originally showed the scene where he gets shot way before we see anything else. So all those other characters and his relationships with them didn't even exist when it was written.

Of course, that doesn't excuse the anime for it. This was a place where some anime-original material would have been very appreciated. Overall, I'd say that's the main flaw with this flashback arc. It's been trying to be completely faithful the manga, but does so at the cost of its own storytelling. It's not well integrated at all.

well is not like we can blame it. the manga itself have yet explaining what happens in between

LKK · 2013-02-25, 15:41

Not being familiar with the ZKC mythos, I found the flashback very interesting. But I think the placement of the flashback within the larger anime storyline is odd. I won't say it's badly placed though. Not yet at least. I want to see if the flashback influences the immediately following scenes before I decide whether or not a flashback right after Hyoubu's pulled a gun on Andy was a good or bad time for a flashback.

Based on the preview, I have a prediction for episode 9 events.

Spoiler for ep 9 preview scenes:

Clarste · 2013-02-25, 15:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by RRW

well is not like we can blame it. the manga itself have yet explaining what happens in between

Isn't the author of the manga working with them on this? He can tell them enough non-spoilery details for them to make the scenes flow better.

ars89 · 2013-02-25, 17:23

That's pretty sad indeed for what happened to Kyousuke. Though can't it be explained that because they saw that prediction they actually made history follow it? Like if the captain never betrayed Kyousuke, he wouldn't have awakened all his powers yet and would still trust normals, so he wouldn't bring about destruction. Or if they never had seen that prediction none of it would have occurred as well. It was interesting to see his past, though i had totally forgot that he's in the middle of trying to take out Andy. Hope Yugiri will be ok next ep.

RRW · 2013-02-25, 17:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clarste

Isn't the author of the manga working with them on this? He can tell them enough non-spoilery details for them to make the scenes flow better.

nah i think this is the best way to animate the flashback with available material

SQA · 2013-02-25, 19:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by RRW

hmm never knew they end the flashback very fast. still is very sad to see your father figure is betray you. thought is bit justified. Is like saying if you know Hitler will created WW2. of course you kill him before that happens to prevent it.

well is not like we can blame it. the manga itself have yet explaining what happens in between

Realistically, it's not too hard to guess what happened in between. The ESP Unit simply wasn't big enough, without enough Espers of enough quality, to really turn more than 1 or 2 Battles. So, over time on their missions, everyone pretty much ended up dead. That's kind of the way war works.

Though I don't know if we have confirmation that everyone but Hyoubu and Fujiko were the ones that died during the War. Just most. (Though I guess the two guys that form the Metamorph/Body Switch combo families might have survived, given their grand kids are in the current ZKC storyline)

creb · 2013-02-25, 22:09

He wasn't just a soldier, he was a soldier in the Japanese army, which practically defined sacrifice for the greater good.

But, no, he has to throw a 60 year hissy fit and do his best to fulfill that dolphin's premonition, while turning all those "normal's" fears into reality along the way.

I figured some sort of "betrayal" was at the root of his psychosis, but still...lol.

The question is whether the show is actually going to continue with him as the "good" guy, or if the world's worst secret agent is going to find some middle path that doesn't involve genocide, after which Hyoubu can die and pretend that was all he really had wished for.

SQA · 2013-02-25, 22:43

Hyoubu is Magneto. He's an anti-Hero. At times he's "helping the Good Guys" and, at times, he's straight up "The Bad Guy". It's what has always made him so interesting.

Yet, at the same time, he could have also started the War a long time ago, but he hasn't. He's been waiting for his Esper Queen in Kaoru. But, further, the "premonitions" aren't actually 100% assured. They can be changed. Probably a point that his former Commander could have learned a little sooner.

Master_Yoma · 2013-02-25, 22:58

Well Hyoubu's father was right

orion · 2013-02-25, 23:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by creb

He wasn't just a soldier, he was a soldier in the Japanese army, which practically defined sacrifice for the greater good.

But, no, he has to throw a 60 year hissy fit and do his best to fulfill that dolphin's premonition, while turning all those "normal's" fears into reality along the way.

I figured some sort of "betrayal" was at the root of his psychosis, but still...lol.

The question is whether the show is actually going to continue with him as the "good" guy, or if the world's worst secret agent is going to find some middle path that doesn't involve genocide, after which Hyoubu can die and pretend that was all he really had wished for.

I'm siding with Kyosuke on this one. If I laid my life on the line my country, the last thing I want to hear after the war is over is that I'm a monster. They were flying around without any bulletproofing and prob little protection from the elements.

Really instead of trying to kill the Kyosuke which would have fulfilled the prophesy, that guy should have taken Kyosuke to South America and lived happily ever after. In his state before the shooting, Kyosuke wasn't going to destroy the world. After that huge betrayal by a "normal" and prob subsequent mess that went down, it's understandable that he wants to kill them all. Technically, if he had saved Nagasaki, he wouldn't have been viewed as a monster.

The dolphin obviously wasn't explaining things right and the commander was an idiot. Kyosuke should have listened to his dad.

fukarming · 2013-02-25, 23:50

I found an interesting contrast here:

The navy pilot guy, who called ESPers monsters, after the fight is happy to help Kyosuke (so obviously no longer see them as monsters, you can take a small leap by saying that ignorance formed bigotry)

In contrast, the captain, who spend years with the ESpers, call Kyousuke monsters at the end. So did he always view the ESPers as monsters and simply use them to advance his military career?

Clarste · 2013-02-26, 00:38

Oh yeah, in case this wasn't obvious, Hyoubu's past is explicitly supposed to parallel the current life of his "Queen". Being raised by the military yet with a kind father figure who promises everything is gonna be alright? Being prophesied to lead the espers in a war against the normals? It's not even subtle: his life is exactly the same as hers, up until the point where he gets shot in the head anyway.

Midonin · 2013-02-26, 00:39

No wonder they had young Kyosuke voiced by Hirano.

tsunade666 · 2013-02-26, 06:04

is the current series also based in the manga? if yes I will probably read it to know what happens next. the cliffhanger and the next episode preview screams I want more!

Obelisk ze Tormentor · 2013-02-26, 06:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsunade666

is the current series also based in the manga? if yes I will probably read it to know what happens next. the cliffhanger and the next episode preview screams I want more!

IIRC It’s mostly anime original stuff since the story in this series is from the “antagonist’s POV” and act like some kind of side story until BABEL finally involved. So yeah, even manga readers won’t know what exactly will happen in the next episode. A portion of Hyobu’s flashback was already in the manga though.

RRW · 2013-02-26, 07:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsunade666

is the current series also based in the manga? if yes I will probably read it to know what happens next. the cliffhanger and the next episode preview screams I want more!

Only portion of flashback is manga adaptation. there is continuation of the flashback thought if you interested in that

Clarste · 2013-02-26, 12:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by RRW

Only portion of flashback is manga adaptation. there is continuation of the flashback thought if you interested in that

I doubt it would be very interesting to someone who's only following the anime though.

2013-02-25, 15:04	Link #202
Haak Me, An Intellectual Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: UK Age: 33	Well I thought it was a really good episode up until the end where we saw a massive timeskip that shoved in Hyoubu killing his captain. The lack of perspective from Fujiko or any of the other characters of this event was particularly grating. __________________ MAL \| AnimeSuki Choice Awards 2020 Winners

2013-02-25, 15:41	Link #205
LKK Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Virginia, USA Age: 62	Not being familiar with the ZKC mythos, I found the flashback very interesting. But I think the placement of the flashback within the larger anime storyline is odd. I won't say it's badly placed though. Not yet at least. I want to see if the flashback influences the immediately following scenes before I decide whether or not a flashback right after Hyoubu's pulled a gun on Andy was a good or bad time for a flashback. Based on the preview, I have a prediction for episode 9 events. Spoiler for ep 9 preview scenes: Andy's boss told him that the civilians and children on the Catastrophe would have their rights protected. I don't think the ship boarders will honor that promise. In particular, I predict little Yugiri will be in danger. Andy will save her and become a traitor in US eyes. How or who saves Andy from Hyoubu beforehand, I'm not sure. Maybe the dolphin brain in the machine has another prediction and intervenes?? __________________ Avatar: Hazuki of Natsuyuki Rendezvous / Signature: flowers from Natsuyuki Rendezvous

2013-02-25, 17:23	Link #207
ars89 One-Eyed Dragon Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: NJ, USA	That's pretty sad indeed for what happened to Kyousuke. Though can't it be explained that because they saw that prediction they actually made history follow it? Like if the captain never betrayed Kyousuke, he wouldn't have awakened all his powers yet and would still trust normals, so he wouldn't bring about destruction. Or if they never had seen that prediction none of it would have occurred as well. It was interesting to see his past, though i had totally forgot that he's in the middle of trying to take out Andy. Hope Yugiri will be ok next ep. __________________ My Anime List

2013-02-25, 22:09	Link #210
creb Hiding Under Your Bed Join Date: May 2008	He wasn't just a soldier, he was a soldier in the Japanese army, which practically defined sacrifice for the greater good. But, no, he has to throw a 60 year hissy fit and do his best to fulfill that dolphin's premonition, while turning all those "normal's" fears into reality along the way. I figured some sort of "betrayal" was at the root of his psychosis, but still...lol. The question is whether the show is actually going to continue with him as the "good" guy, or if the world's worst secret agent is going to find some middle path that doesn't involve genocide, after which Hyoubu can die and pretend that was all he really had wished for. __________________ http://myanimelist.net/animelist/creb http://myanimelist.net/mangalist/creb It feels like years since they've been updated, btw. Also, cake.

2013-02-25, 22:58	Link #212
Master_Yoma Nekokota Festival Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Lost in the Fairy Forest	Well Hyoubu's father was right __________________

2013-02-25, 12:59	Link #201
Miraluka Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Age: 34	Well, ep.08 was sad, jus seeing how Hyoubu's world collapsed in just some minutes from the person he trusted the most... I find it weird but I have a feeling someone forced the guy to do that.

2013-02-25, 22:43	Link #211
SQA Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2012	Hyoubu is Magneto. He's an anti-Hero. At times he's "helping the Good Guys" and, at times, he's straight up "The Bad Guy". It's what has always made him so interesting. Yet, at the same time, he could have also started the War a long time ago, but he hasn't. He's been waiting for his Esper Queen in Kaoru. But, further, the "premonitions" aren't actually 100% assured. They can be changed. Probably a point that his former Commander could have learned a little sooner.

2013-02-25, 23:50	Link #214
fukarming Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009	I found an interesting contrast here: The navy pilot guy, who called ESPers monsters, after the fight is happy to help Kyosuke (so obviously no longer see them as monsters, you can take a small leap by saying that ignorance formed bigotry) In contrast, the captain, who spend years with the ESpers, call Kyousuke monsters at the end. So did he always view the ESPers as monsters and simply use them to advance his military career? __________________ They came first for sharks fin,I didn't speak up because I don't eat sharks fin. Then they came for foie gras,I didn't speak up because I don't eat foie gras. Then they came for Toro (bluefin tuna) sushi,I didn't speak up because I don't eat sushi. Then they came for me and force me to be a vegan by that time no one was left to speak up.

2013-02-26, 00:38	Link #215
Clarste Human Join Date: Aug 2004 Age: 37	Oh yeah, in case this wasn't obvious, Hyoubu's past is explicitly supposed to parallel the current life of his "Queen". Being raised by the military yet with a kind father figure who promises everything is gonna be alright? Being prophesied to lead the espers in a war against the normals? It's not even subtle: his life is exactly the same as hers, up until the point where he gets shot in the head anyway.

2013-02-26, 00:39	Link #216
Midonin Last Engage Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Florida	No wonder they had young Kyosuke voiced by Hirano.

2013-02-26, 06:04	Link #217
tsunade666 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: In my room	is the current series also based in the manga? if yes I will probably read it to know what happens next. the cliffhanger and the next episode preview screams I want more! __________________ To A certain Lonely Hero