Hyouka - Episode 16 Discussion / Poll

[Dr. Casey]

Originally Posted by Eisdrache

FredFriendly confirmed for troll, 1/10.

Haha, I hope so. Jeez Fred, give Oreki a break, you're harder on him than Mayaka is.

[Eisdrache]

For some reason I keep thinking of this when watching the last scene.

[LoweGear]

There was this shopped image released a couple of weeks ago where Chitanda had blank eyes with the caption "I'm not curious anymore". Seeing the official version in this episode though brought me to tears laughing.

[broken270]

Houtarou (Mirror) <-> Tomoe (A Corpse by Evening). What is the hidden motive for her to give him something with a big clue like that? Will the manga be traded for something in the final episode of this arc?

[ookamigirl]

Juumoji turned out to be pretty elusive.
At least the anthology was selling really well now.
Oreki's sister traded him something interesting.
Chitanda and her curiosity... ^^"
That manga sure brought out a lot of curiosity.
Looks like it had a lot more to do with the Juumoji case than previously thought.

[Anh_Minh]

- How is Anshin'in-san (from Medaka Box) involved in this?
- It was funny seeing Satoshi doing the "I'm curious face shove"', but his potential start of darkness is worrying.
- I've been thingking about it since last ep, but is Anjou Haruna dead? Is this case a way for the remaining members to call attention to the loss? (Juumoji missed the Ku to say "Kudryavka's Order didn't appear. Why didn't you notice?".)
- If the student council president's the artist, is the Manga Club vice-president the one who drew the backgrounds and wrote the postscript? It expressed values similar to her own.

[Julio C]

From the start of the school festival up to this point, this is easily the best arc so far. I didn't like the murder mystery film arc that much, but this arc is making up for it. So I'm guessing one more arc after this one which leaves only 4 episodes for the final arc?

[Sugarless Ocean]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

I've been thinking about it since last ep, but is Anjou Haruna dead? Is this case a way for the remaining members to call attention to the loss? (Juumoji missed the Ku to say "Kudryavka's Order didn't appear. Why didn't you notice?".)

Lol I don't think that Anjou is dead. That's a little too extreme and there aren't any hints that point to that. Anyway, didn't the manga society president say that she transferred?

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

If the student council president's the artist, is the Manga Club vice-president the one who drew the backgrounds and wrote the postscript? It expressed values similar to her own.

If that's the case, then that shows that Mayaka was right about the "masterpieces being born" thing and proof that the other girl had agreed. I think the katana girl's theory about "works that are loved throughout time are masterpieces" (paraphrased) was just something she said to start a fight with Mayaka and she herself doesn't really believe it. Because that smug attitude she had when talking about seemed like an act to rile her up.


EDIT: 7/10 because there were very funny moments but there wasn't really a climax or a big revelation in this episode other than the clues the Corpse by Evening manga gave. Story's kind of slow atm but maybe next episode will finally give us a climax to this arc (after like, what? Five episodes? it's so looonnng @_@)

[Dextro]

Was I the only one who wondered if the chord had been stolen from Guitah at the start of the episode?

On the Mayaka situation I'm starting to feel that they are indeed pushing it a bit too far. This should have been the episode where she managed to fight back but instead she just did what she should have done a long time ago and left that bloody classroom. I kind of like Mayaka's character so I want to punch the screen every time those girls at the Manga club bully her.

As for the mystery I think that the order isn't exactly Gojuuon order but a different order that just happens to fit for the first few characters, hence the Kudryavka's order. But I'm not speculating too much on what might happen next week, I'll just be sure to enjoy it when the time comes.

Satoshi on the other hand is really suffering. He prides himself of being a database but apparently is growing a bit anxious that he might be unable to put that information to good use himself and is always relying on Oreki (who coincidently can't do absolutely nothing without someone to give him reliable info. They are a good combo indeed). Let's see how he grows at the end of the arc.

7/10 for me since some of the bits of the arc are starting to drag a bit.

[blakstealth]

Goddamn, those manga lab members. I wanted to punch my screen.

I also lul'd at Chitanda's expression as all of the light in her eyes disappeared after what Oreki said. xD Too good.

Also, Tomoe is beautiful. nuff said

[orion]

Originally Posted by Dextro

Was I the only one who wondered if the chord had been stolen from Guitah at the start of the episode?

On the Mayaka situation I'm starting to feel that they are indeed pushing it a bit too far. This should have been the episode where she managed to fight back but instead she just did what she should have done a long time ago and left that bloody classroom. I kind of like Mayaka's character so I want to punch the screen every time those girls at the Manga club bully her.

As for the mystery I think that the order isn't exactly Gojuuon order but a different order that just happens to fit for the first few characters, hence the Kudryavka's order. But I'm not speculating too much on what might happen next week, I'll just be sure to enjoy it when the time comes.

Satoshi on the other hand is really suffering. He prides himself of being a database but apparently is growing a bit anxious that he might be unable to put that information to good use himself and is always relying on Oreki (who coincidently can't do absolutely nothing without someone to give him reliable info. They are a good combo indeed). Let's see how he grows at the end of the arc.

7/10 for me since some of the bits of the arc are starting to drag a bit.

So would it be like rhyming the Russian alphabet with Japanese equivalent with an every other letter skip?

http://www.russianlessons.net/lesson...1_alphabet.php

ah --> Ka
veh --> Ki
deh --> Ke
yo --> Ko

I thought it was funny that K-On (Keion Club) was referenced in this episode.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Dextro

Was I the only one who wondered if the chord had been stolen from Guitah at the start of the episode?

I'm hoping that somebody can find a fitting K-On episode to mash-up Hyouka Episode 16 with. It could be pretty funny.

Heck, if somebody can suggest a good K-On episode to mash with this one, I might try it myself. I've done some basic mash-ups before.

[winhlp32]

Try the 6th Episode of K-On!!, the one all about Yui and her Gitah. She changes the strings and had to separate from Gitah that episode. It fits perfectly.

[Zeross]

Originally Posted by winhlp32

Try the 6th Episode of K-On!!, the one all about Yui and her Gitah. She changes the strings and had to separate from Gitah that episode. It fits perfectly.

but its not in a school festival period

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Sugarless Ocean

If that's the case, then that shows that Mayaka was right about the "masterpieces being born" thing and proof that the other girl had agreed.

What are you talking about? She said she liked the work. But that she left the final judgment to the readers.

[GalacticPulsar]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I think the reason Houtarou revealed his ideas to Satoshi privately is because Houtarou didn't want to get roped into a full-fledged investigation again.

Houtarou knows that if he reveals some interesting mystery-related ideas to the curious Eru, and the industrious Mayaka, that they'll demand for him to take his ideas all the way to a full-fledged mystery solution. But this is a case that Satoshi is quite willing to resolve on his own, so if Houtarou shares some of his ideas with just Satoshi, he can then hope for Satoshi to resolve this on his own.

excellent point. Satoshi does seem smart enough to be able to resolve the minor details of the mystery so the complete solution remains coherent while Oreki resolves the major part. If Oreki gets Eru involved with solving the mystery, Eru may in fact bring attention to new mysteries by asking even more questions due to her curious nature like in the last arc. By being confronted with so many mysteries to solve, Oreki may feel overwhelmed. Oreki is exasperated by Chitanda's never satisfied curiosity and thus to conserve energy, decides not to consult Chitanda in solving the mystery. That and Chitanda is pretty much useless when it comes to solving mysteries.

Satoshi's role in solving the mystery is not as important as many people here seem to believe. While Oreki relies on Satoshi to provide him with relevant information in order to solve mysteries, Satoshi's database ability can be made obsolete if Oreki wasn't so lazy and so much in his own world that he was even clueless as to what the name of the student council president was. Given that he is so gifted in analytical reasoning, while deduction and memorizing are two distinct skills, info gathering shouldn't be difficult for him. The fact of the matter is Oreki could solve the whole mystery by himself except he is too lazy to do so and needs someone to spoon feed him information.Satoshi is a good character though and it's sad to see him with an inferiority complex.

Originally Posted by prototype_sky

You're forgetting he messed up the last mystery so maybe he doesn't want to commit to this one and fail again in front of the girl he's trying to impress, taking another blow to his fragile ego, especially if his sister might be pulling the strings behind the scenes again.

No offense but that seems off. Mainly because Oreki doesn't have as "fragile" an ego as you think. Oreki doesn't really care what people think of him and he's actually pretty confident in his own deductive abilities. Oreki doesn't seem to be all that interested in impressing Chitanda too. FredFriendly may be right. Oreki is only somewhat attracted to Chitanda's looks(cuteness) while tuning out whenever Chitanda talks. After all Chitanda's energetic personality is too much for the sluggish slothful Oreki. Furthermore, Oreki probably knows deep down, how talented he is but prefers to play down his deductive abilities in order to justify his laid back average life. Irisu mentions before that it is important for one to maximize one's potential and not to waste one's ability. Oreki wants to avoid coming to terms with his ability so he doesn't feel like he owes the world a favor to become the next best detective since Sherlock Holmes.

Nevertheless, Oreki , like any gifted person, is not above taking on a superiority complex,one that is however not all that apparent. Oreki values Satoshi as a database but views Chitanda as very lacking in her analytical abilities. It won't be a stretch to say Oreki doesn't really have much respect for Chitanda as he does for Satoshi or even Mayaka.He had even made a remark earlier in a show,saying how he was surprised that despite being an excellent student, Chitanda was really obtuse.

In this episode, Oreki was shown to be a bit self absorbed as well. He didn't really care that Chitanda was invited to be on an interview with the Broadcasting Club. When he was talking to Satoshi, he was very confident in his ability to solve the mystery despite Satoshi saying how it was such an impossible task. When Satoshi got a little testy over how Oreki viewed the mystery as something that wasn't that hard to solve, Oreki didn't really think much of Satoshi's emotional outburst. Oreki gives off the feeling that he doesn't really care much for Satoshi's feelings and one can even question whether their friendship is something more than Satoshi barging his way into Oreki's life. Satoshi probably feels both admiration toward Oreki and inadequacy towards his own talents or lack thereof.If anyone has a "fragile ego" in this show it is Satoshi.Why else is he so active in so many clubs(knitting?) at school and on the student council and participates in so many competition(trivia, cooking, etc)? It is because he feels inadequate when compared to Oreki who ironically does much less than him as far as school club activities goes. Oreki and Satoshi are both pretty cool characters though.

Originally Posted by Eisdrache

FredFriendly confirmed for troll, 1/10.

How exactly is FredFriendly a troll? He brings up valid points that contribute to the discussion of this week's hyouka episode. Since when does expressing your own opinions make you a troll? He may have exaggerated things a bit but his ideas regarding this episode are valid.

[Hyper]

Originally Posted by GalacticPulsar

*snipped*

I agree with Triple_R and you on that point, but I disagree about the rest. Sure Houtarou could do it if he really try, but the fact is that he didn't and couldn't do it as good as Satoshi. He has no network of resources that Satoshi processes and no motivation to drives him to gather all the little details. The last arc also provided an example of Houtarou doing the investigation himself and indeed he missed a lot of important points. He did great on what people fed him, but he was not good by himself.

Also, Houtarou may think that the problem is not that hard, but he certainly does not think because he is special. I and Triple_R purposed similar theories that it's probably because he was constantly overshadowed by his sister for so long. He think that he is "normal" because he cannot be as great as his sister. His current lifestyle is the result of him giving up trying, not the other way around.

Finally, I think he is simply unaware of Satoshi's feeling. Remember when he told Satoshi that he think Satoshi can be the best Sherlockian if he put his mind into it? I don't think he would say that if he simply didn't care. That was also the only time Satoshi really let it slipped that he is a little jealous of Houtarou as well.

[Chandela]

Originally Posted by blakstealth

Goddamn, those manga lab members. I wanted to punch my screen.

^ I felt the exact same way.

-Oreki's sister has serious style. I was blown away when she appeared.
-I am seriously surprised Mayaka hasn't smacked a hoe already. When the incident occurred I thought she was going to grab that girl by the shirt and knock her right in the face. Her tolerence for taking crap is a lot higher then my own.
-I love Oreki shooting down Chitanda when she was getting curious. She is so controlling (in my opinion) it kinda bothers me. She is cute so I will let it slide... for now.
-Satoshi seems to be losing faith in his own abilities to solve this mystery. It's a shame, seeing how confident he was at the end of the last episode. Hopefully Oreki will shine though this case with no mistakes.

Nice episode, I look forward to the next one.

[Dextro]

Originally Posted by GalacticPulsar

No offense but that seems off. Mainly because Oreki doesn't have as "fragile" an ego as you think. Oreki doesn't really care what people think of him and he's actually pretty confident in his own deductive abilities. Oreki doesn't seem to be all that interested in impressing Chitanda too. FredFriendly may be right. Oreki is only somewhat attracted to Chitanda's looks(cuteness) while tuning out whenever Chitanda talks. After all Chitanda's energetic personality is too much for the sluggish slothful Oreki. Furthermore, Oreki probably knows deep down, how talented he is but prefers to play down his deductive abilities in order to justify his laid back average life. Irisu mentions before that it is important for one to maximize one's potential and not to waste one's ability. Oreki wants to avoid coming to terms with his ability so he doesn't feel like he owes the world a favor to become the next best detective since Sherlock Holmes.

Nevertheless, Oreki , like any gifted person, is not above taking on a superiority complex,one that is however not all that apparent. Oreki values Satoshi as a database but views Chitanda as very lacking in her analytical abilities. It won't be a stretch to say Oreki doesn't really have much respect for Chitanda as he does for Satoshi or even Mayaka.He had even made a remark earlier in a show,saying how he was surprised that despite being an excellent student, Chitanda was really obtuse.

In this episode, Oreki was shown to be a bit self absorbed as well. He didn't really care that Chitanda was invited to be on an interview with the Broadcasting Club. When he was talking to Satoshi, he was very confident in his ability to solve the mystery despite Satoshi saying how it was such an impossible task. When Satoshi got a little testy over how Oreki viewed the mystery as something that wasn't that hard to solve, Oreki didn't really think much of Satoshi's emotional outburst. Oreki gives off the feeling that he doesn't really care much for Satoshi's feelings and one can even question whether their friendship is something more than Satoshi barging his way into Oreki's life. Satoshi probably feels both admiration toward Oreki and inadequacy towards his own talents or lack thereof.If anyone has a "fragile ego" in this show it is Satoshi.Why else is he so active in so many clubs(knitting?) at school and on the student council and participates in so many competition(trivia, cooking, etc)? It is because he feels inadequate when compared to Oreki who ironically does much less than him as far as school club activities goes. Oreki and Satoshi are both pretty cool characters though.

I think that what you call a "superiority complex" is in fact, as others have pointed out, a failure on Oreki's part to be able to socialize properly. He's so introvert that he just doesn't consider what other people will feel when he acts and inadvertently hurts other people.

I will however concede that he just might find Chitanda a bit annoying in how obtuse she is at times but in all fairness I would probably feel the same if I was in his position (the girl can be an apparent airhead at times).

And you forget to factor in what happened with Irisu on the last arc: she clearly manipulated his fragile ego to get him to do his biding. She picked the single thing he actually has any confidence in and placed it up in a pedestal for him to feel good about only to let him go down crashing when the house of cards she built for it was torn down. That was a as clear cut as you can get way to show that Oreki is in fact very insecure of himself despite his true abilities.

[winhlp32]

Am I the only one who thinks Houtarou is very kawaii-desu-ne in this episode?