Retro versus Modern Anime

[roriconfan]

Are modern anime less credible than older titles? Are retro series more honest at what they present?

My opinion in the matter. Do not read before you think of your opinion.

Spoiler for my five cents:

I keep hearing "newer is better" because it has better visuals. How come better animation makes a series better? In fact, if the animation is not awesome you focus on story and characters instead of action or boobs. I am sure most old anime have terrible stories and stereotypical characters but because the animation is not great you see that easier. Modern series are full of cool or sexy looking cardboards that trick viewers who stick on looks.

Also, older series have the privilage of NOT being affected by hype that much. Most bad ones are forgotten and only good ones remain known. I am sure there are many burried treasures out there but in the same way they are not deified because they just came out from the oven.

[Proto]

Only good ones remain known because they have already sustained the test of time. If you want to compare hypes, you would do a better work comparing 70's vs 80's vs 90's. Or waitinig 10 years in order to compare the 00's. Having present vs pasts comparisons usually don't work because we cannot see present events 9or in this case, series) in their proper perspective.

[Triple_R]

The internet (and how the internet has seen anime fans congregate into very populous communities like Anime Suki and the chans), has had a massive effect here, I think.

I sometimes kind of feel sorry for many good mid-90s or earlier anime that never had the major hype benefit that comes with being an anime made within the last ten years. While I'm a big Haruhi fan, there's no question that its anime was helped a lot by the internet hype machine. The same is definitely true of Code Geass and Death Note. Would those anime had been popular if they came out before the internet went mainstream? Probably... because they do have genuinely good content to them... but they wouldn't be as big as they currently are, I think.

I don't know if retro anime is any better, or any worse, than modern anime, but there's no question that the lack of the internet hype machine made it more challenging for a retro anime to hit it big than it is for an anime to hit it big today, imo.

[Archon_Wing]

I don't think the comparison can be made. But it will be interesting to see how anime of recent times will be seen in 10-20 years.

[0utf0xZer0]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I don't know if retro anime is any better, or any worse, than modern anime, but there's no question that the lack of the internet hype machine made it more challenging for a retro anime to hit it big than it is for an anime to hit it big today, imo.

I think you've hit on something big. Personally though, I feel that while its easier for modern anime to become a hit, it's harder for it to be a lasting hit than it used to be.

Another major change I've noticed is that modern animes tend to be shorter - even popular shows tend to only go 13 or 26 episodes before taking a season break. I actually tend to prefer this approach because it's hard for me to commit to very long running shows with my schedule.

[bhl88]

Originally Posted by Archon_Wing

I don't think the comparison can be made. But it will be interesting to see how anime of recent times will be seen in 10-20 years.

Astro Boy ('60s) vs Voltes V (70's) vs Akira (I think that's 80's) vs Neon Genesis Evangelion (90's) vs Haruhi Suzumiya (2000's)

Yeah you're right.

[Blablabla]

It's not only a matter of hype... but maybe also of style and talent.
Back then :

now :

[Proto]

You could also say it is a matter of preferences. Your mileage may vary.

[Slice of Life]

Another day, another old vs. new anime thread. So I can as well repeat what I always say.

Most old anime(*) are bad. And only few of the better ones stand the test against good anime of today. And the problem is not the animation. In fact I'll take Votom's hand-drawn animation over cheap CG any time. Story instead of boobs? There were boobs galore in old-school anime in the era of OVAs, more than today. But not so much story: most TV anime were always episodic, and often much more repetitive than what you would get away with today. And the OVAs, due to their shortness, didn't even get you the chance to establish some connection to the characters.

There are indeed more poor series today that hide behind a pretentious surface. That simply wasn't necessary back in the day. The audience was much less experienced and much younger. When you're ten, you're watching even the 51st glorious Whatever-izer combination sequence in awe.

BTW, it's interesting that most of the time it's the shounen action series that are guilty of this, not so much the moe fests that are typically blamed for anything. But I must also say that of the new shounen anime, the one that seems to be expected to become the next big thing, namely Fairy Tail, is probably least guilty of this, compared to the slick Bantorra, Darker than Black, and also Blacksmith to some extent.

But the experienced fan should be able to look through this in any case. And I can't really blame the casual watcher for anything.

As for hype, hype is never fair, nether against old nor new shows. But again, the fan should be sowewhat immune to it.

(*) Lets say, older than 1995, and I'm only talking about what I know, that is those that exist in subbed form. That doesn't mean that I believe that there is a big licensee+fansubber conspiracy to leave all the good stuff unsubbed.

[npcomplete]

I agree with SoL. I grew up watching the old stuff and it's really the few gems that are remembered but end up distorting our impressions of that era. I have to say that there were a lot of and have been a lot of really cheesy, one dimensional shows.

As for the art, I also think it's a matter of preference.

If you were to make comparisons by decade, there's a lot more variety of shows now that all seem to be equally popular so it's impossible to pick just one or two representative of this era.

edit:
It's also interesting to see how some of the most notable series from before still continue to this day, not necessarily as a continuation in TV form, but in some form or another at least periodically.
The Leiji Matsumoto stuff (Galaxy Express universe), the Tezuka Osamu stuff (Black Jack, Phoenix), Evangelion getting the Evangelion 1.x - 4.x movies, Dragonball series, Gundam series, Macross series, Ghost in the Shell

[Kirarakim]

I think there are great new series and great old series. And I think there are awful new series and awful old series. Pretty much sums it up.

[klare]

yes we can find good and bad ones in both old and new

however, i feel good animation does help to make an anime better, but to be classified as a really good one, it cannot lack either animation or story

the old ones i feel will always be considered best all time even tho they are already old such as Nausicaa, Laputa, Princess Mononoke, Macross SDF, Akira etc

[bhl88]

Astro Boy (60's)


Gurren Lagann (2007) (made as 70's style... I think...)

Spoiler:

Akira


Neon Genesis Evangelion


Otaku no Video


Haruhi Suzumiya (2000's)

Spoiler:

Ini- I mean Lucky Star (2000's)

Spoiler:

Black Rock Shooter (2009/2010)



Yep... can't be compared... I think. (hmm... Astro Boy vs Neon Genesis Evangelion vs Akira vs Haruhi vs Otaku no Video vs Lucky Star vs Black Rock Shooter....)

[Albafica]

Originally Posted by Blablabla

It's not only a matter of hype... but maybe also of style and talent.
Back then :

now :

Arg, Lady Oscar , Suzumiya Haruhi...

About old anime/new anime, there are good old anime like Saint Seiya, Dragon Ball, Akira or City Hunter; but there are good new anime too, like Monster, Gankutsuou for example.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by bhl88

Your comparisons are flawed. The Astroy Boy you picked is the more recent one. Gurenn Lagann as representative of the 1970s? Pleeease. At leats pick up UC Gundam or something.

1960s:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3UbaB7oPTw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5auE9BO5yY

1970s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnAiq-Gy4Ck

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFjZjXHrLU0

1980s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2b-3DF8NzA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M39NJPbtPgk

[Wattstax]

Hmm, for me the visuals aren't that important, if I know, that the content suits me. The visuals just make it easier for you and more pleasant to the eyes which is a good thing if you don't make it your only criteria. For example there are also many shows today which differ in quality. Just look at Gunslinger Girl. The second season was disliked by many, just because of an inferior visual style compared with the first season. Incomprehensible for me.

But I started with Sailor Moon then, so maybe it's easier for me to appreciate the old-school / "cheaper" animes like Hana Yori Dango or Legend Of Galactic Heroes, that I really enjoyed.

It's the same with mangas. Although I'm a big Kaori Yuki Fan, I also read Tezuka Osamu's Black Jack. I just like it despite the different styles.

[bhl88]

Originally Posted by Sheba

Your comparisons are flawed. The Astroy Boy you picked is the more recent one. Gurenn Lagann as representative of the 1970s? Pleeease. At leats pick up UC Gundam or something.

1960s:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3UbaB7oPTw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5auE9BO5yY

1970s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnAiq-Gy4Ck

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFjZjXHrLU0

1980s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2b-3DF8NzA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M39NJPbtPgk

forgot about gundam (thought it was recent) same thing with astro boy (or I probably wasn't searching hard enough)

[Kaioshin Sama]

Originally Posted by Blablabla

It's not only a matter of hype... but maybe also of style and talent.
Back then :

now :

Just looking at the manner in which the characters are posed and the mannerisms they portray I think what this pretty much says to me is that the role of female characters in anime has become more pronounced (perhaps in your face even) and important to a shows popularity and success, but perhaps in a way that will be looked upon in the years to come as exploitation. Conversely I think an edge that older anime have over newer ones is a larger number of strong male characters that get the fan focus as opposed to the idolized and in some cases fetished female characters of today which seem to draw the attention of the fans. Though this may in fact be the case only by the sheer by virtue of the greater chance of there actually BEING male characters in them (and by that bolded "being" I actually mean that by all impressions the male sex just seems to simply not exist at all in some modern anime series) that aren't just played as pathetic foils for the frequently in your face female leads of today to walk all over. There are of course anime that have equally strong male and female characters and those are the ones I think have an edge when it comes to standing the test of time. At least they are the ones I find myself liking the most.

Anyway somebody mentioned about U.C, well Gundam is old enough to actually be compared and contrasted to itself. A look at the openings of the oldest and most recent series in the meta franchise should give an idea of how much things have changed in the past 30 years versus what has remained the same as far as style and presentation goes among other things:

30 Years ago:

The present:

Anyway I apologize for the extreme wordiness of my posts tonight. It seems whenever I get tired I forget how to write without stretching out sentences and filling them with redunancies and unnecessary descriptors.

[Slice of Life]

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

Just looking at the manner in which the characters are posed and the mannerisms they portray I think what this pretty much says to me ...

Just looking at the pictures, I think what this pretty much says to me is that female anime characters were blondes in the past, but now they are brunettes. It's not that you're totally wrong with what you say, but the conclusions you draw don't necessarily rest on these two pictures, I suppose.

And Versailles no Bara is probably the last thing I'd choose as example to philosophize about the roles of women in the anime of the 70s. Watch it.

[Triple_R]

Kaoishin - Good observations.

That is indeed a predominant difference between older anime and modern anime; the relative role of the genders in each.

There is an exception to that, though, in the fighting shonen animes of Bleach, Naruto, and One Piece.

However, it does seem that in most otaku-focused titles, the female characters are the strongest ones as well as the most visually imposing/impressive ones. Meanwhile, the male characters are pathetic foils, as you say, if not completely absent.

K-On is the first anime I've ever watched where there is not a signal male character to be seen. Sometimes I wonder if the very name "K-On" is a clever pun. Maybe modern male otakus are like Ky-On (the Haruhi character ), and have no time whatsoever for any character with a y chromosome.