Is there such a thing called fate?

[choowee]

I'm surprised there isn't a thread about this already. So much of anime deals with fate, the future, our pre-determined role in society, free will, and our ability to change destiny. What are your views on this? Is there such a thing as fate? Do we have free will? Are our futures already determined?

~~~

I believe that there is fate to an extent... ie: We are fated to be born and to die, and to eventually be judged. You can't deny the fact that we cannot escape death, so thus it is our fate.
As far as our actions and the end of our actions, I do believed that those are pre-determined, but though our future is pre-determined, it is different than fate because that future is based on our own free will... our free will causes us to do actions that are pre-determined.... does that make sense?

[Kamui4356]

No it really doens't make sense.
I cannot accept the idea of fate. If everything is predetermined, than that means all of our actions have been decided before hand. If that's true, then free will is an illusion, as we then are no different than a rock.
I do believe that there are certain paths that we are more likely to follow, but with effort we can change the course of events. Kind of like taking a tray of sand, drawing a wavey line down it. If you pour a little water, it will follow the path, however if you pour a lot of water, then the water finds it's own route. I think this is similar to what you were trying to say.

[Slade]

Fate and destiny are pretty much the same thing. Pre-determined paths that have already been set and we are the ones in motion. To me, destiny is nothing more than a naive explanation for actions that people take.

It's so easy to say everything that happens is just the work of "destiny"... to say that everything was planned to happen from the very beginning... blame destiny when you fail to achieve your goals, when you fail at life itself.

In the end you will realize that you were doomed to fail from the very beginning not because of destiny, but because of your own fixation on a set path that never existed in the first place.

It's fun to look back and say that meeting your wife in the subway when she dropped her purse. There's no harm in that. But if you rely too much on something that might or might not exist, you'll fall... and you won't get up without a sore you'll be feeling for the rest of your life.

edit- great quote on your signature, the best moment of Tsukihime right there

[choowee]

Originally Posted by Kamui4356

I do believe that there are certain paths that we are more likely to follow, but with effort we can change the course of events. Kind of like taking a tray of sand, drawing a wavey line down it. If you pour a little water, it will follow the path, however if you pour a lot of water, then the water finds it's own route. I think this is similar to what you were trying to say.

hmm... that is an interesting way of looking at it. (nice visuals )
Let me reword what I was trying to say. Other than the three events I stated earlier, I don't believe that fate controls our lives. We control our lives with free will. I also believe that this is our pre-determined future- a future caused by our free-will.

[hobobaggins]

Fate Exists- Just look in the dictionary.

other than that. no.

[diabolistic]

Fate, the idea that your future is written out and that you are a powerless slave to It, is something that i don't believe in.. i've always thought that that is a rather lazy way to view life.

i'm more of a .. pre-deterministic kinda person - do what you can today, and it'll affect you tomorrow.


also..

Originally Posted by choowee

We control our lives with free will. I also believe that this is our pre-determined future- a future caused by our free-will.

to say that a future is predetermined.. would that not negate the idea of free-will? afterall, pre-determinism relies on an infinate chain of events to create what is known as the present .. a chain of events that is beyond human control.

of course, judging by NoSanninWa's custom user title, he could probably talk about fate, predestiny, occasionalism, and all that other mumbo-jumbo :P

[Tzurial]

Ive heard the argument that if you dont plant anything, then nothing grows. But really, if you dont plant anything, then weeds grow. And I think that's fate. If you dont try your hardest to make a future for yourself, then there are systems already in place to make that future for you.

[Jinto]

According to my idea about the universe I belief in fate. Maybe I should say a little bit more about that. I belief, that there exists the tiniest particle in the universe, that cannot be divided nor destroyed nor created. It depends on the state and behaviour of those basic particles how they appear to us. So basically that would mean the whole universe consists of these basic particles including all living beings. All particles have a specific order at a given time, and they work on the actio/reactio principle. The particles influence each other in a direct or indirect (transitive) way, which causes rekursive influence. One could define their actio/reactio behaviour in a function, but this function would be at least as complex as the universe itself, thatswhy nobody is ever able to calculate it. So basically there is a fate, but nobody is able to gain any advantage or disadvantages out of it, because future still seems undestined for us. I.e a human would be just a parameter in this function (this parameter itself would be a very complex function) which acts on actions with reactions.
The function influences itself or lets say it permanently changes the basic parameters according to itself. Time than is a result of these changes (actions/reactions). There would be no chance, but a condition based on conditions before and the actual state of the function. This function contains relatively stable parts but also relatively chaotic/instable parts. The stable parts humans might predict somehow with their sience to a point where those parts are not influenced by unstable/chaotic parts which are defined too, but thanks to their complexity are unpredictable by humans (chaos theory).
Even this post is an action causing some reaction... that might be minor but who knows

[Asakura_Y0h]

I have a rather complex view on fate that is rather made up of a few combinations of things... so bare with me as I try my best to explain

My beliefs of faith are very buddhist oriented so... ermm... sorry if I start a conversation revolving around fate and religion

Anyway, I believe that when you were born, your life walk path was predestined from you former life... ie, if you were bad, you would be born in a less forunate society and if you were good, you would be born into a somewhat more fortunate state..

Ok... so you ask... then what happens to all the events that take place after u are born? Well... simple... i'm sure most of us have wondered why the guy next door struck a loterry and you didn't when you thought of buying the exact same number... well.. that's fated... ie.. in his past life... he would've done something to merit that fortune... one would start thinking... but this was all due to choice... the guy next door chose to and u did not... in a way yes... it is true... it was a choice to make but the fact is... u did not make the right choice and he did... complex?

let's make it a less one off example... for example exams... one fella passes with straight A's and he's blessed with brains... u flunk and u call urself stupid... fate or choice? did u choose to be lazy or did fate provoke u to? its both....

one can break out of his cycle of predetermined events if he or she is determined enough to do so.. in my beliefs... the person who got straight A's could've had a perfect environment to study in so... it was easy for him to make the choice to do so... i.e fated to do well in studies....the other may not have... but if the other's spirit was determined enough to make the choice then he would've broken out of the cycle... if not then he would've walked the path that was predetermined for him before he was born...

but the tricky part about fate... you can't tell which events are predetermined... and which events are not... although all things happen with choice... complex? that's why we're confused and there is no conclusion and this is such a debatable issue... in other words... we walk a life guided by fate... but we have a choice to break out of it... for us buddhists.. the more good deeds u do... the more likely you are to break the cycle you were born in....

i have more to say but i'll leave ppl to comment first

[Shinobu_Maehara]

Ever seen the Matrix movies?

"Cause and effect"

Something happens because it happens. Not because it should happen.
Fate is part of a religion. People believe "fate" will take them to glory, or "fate" will do stuff.

Fate is major BS in my opinion.

[Serendipity]

To me, fate is, like Slade mentioned, a predetermined path.
I believe that dejavu goes hand in hand with this, though.
I have a lot of dejavu, usually one episode of it every day (no joke) and to me, if I remember doing an action or saying something etc. in my dreams, and then living that dream, then I am on the right path. Does that make sense??

[Thyrz]

Originally Posted by Shinobu_Maehara

Fate is part of a religion. People believe "fate" will take them to glory, or "fate" will do stuff.

Naww dude, that's FAITH(geloof/vertrouwen), fate (lot) is something different.

I believe in neither. First off I don't believe in god because if I want to believe something I want to see it. Fate, who the hell made this up? Fate is a fairytail. Just like the bible. :P If I'd read it, I'd do it for entertainment, really.

I have dejavu almost every day as well, I'm not sure what it is, though. It is the closest thing to weirdness. You did make sense btw.

[Jinto]

Originally Posted by Asakura_Y0h

I have a rather complex view on fate that is rather made up of a few combinations of things... so bare with me as I try my best to explain

My beliefs of faith are very buddhist oriented so... ermm... sorry if I start a conversation revolving around fate and religion

Anyway, I believe that when you were born, your life walk path was predestined from you former life... ie, if you were bad, you would be born in a less forunate society and if you were good, you would be born into a somewhat more fortunate state..

To be born again... what makes a being the same being? We have parts of many former living things in us... the one we eat... the one we breathe etc. I.e it is funny to imagine to share the exact same carbon atoms with many former human beings. So how much of you does it need to be reborn? Do you distinguish between living forms that have abilty for consciousness and those who have not, when it comes to be reborn?

Ok... so you ask... then what happens to all the events that take place after u are born? Well... simple... i'm sure most of us have wondered why the guy next door struck a loterry and you didn't when you thought of buying the exact same number... well.. that's fated... ie.. in his past life... he would've done something to merit that fortune... one would start thinking... but this was all due to choice... the guy next door chose to and u did not... in a way yes... it is true... it was a choice to make but the fact is... u did not make the right choice and he did... complex?

Why should I wonder about that? The whole universe evolved to this point where this human ended up in buying a lottery ticket(?) and winning the lottery. Sure the conditions before are responsible for the outcome. The question for the cause is simply a chain of actions/reactions that were evolving for infinite time until now, and will go on infinite time after the lottery win.

let's make it a less one off example... for example exams... one fella passes with straight A's and he's blessed with brains... u flunk and u call urself stupid... fate or choice? did u choose to be lazy or did fate provoke u to? its both....

Well in fact fate provokes anything you do, even when you decide to go against your imaginary fate it is driven by fate, and a happening according to the fate you are caught in. Thatswhy you follow the fate, because you do things because of reasons... it does not matter whether you understand the complexity of the reasons or the whole universe. Hm, what I say need not be right, but could you imagine it as possible?

one can break out of his cycle of predetermined events if he or she is determined enough to do so.. in my beliefs... the person who got straight A's could've had a perfect environment to study in so... it was easy for him to make the choice to do so... i.e fated to do well in studies....the other may not have... but if the other's spirit was determined enough to make the choice then he would've broken out of the cycle... if not then he would've walked the path that was predetermined for him before he was born...

what makes you choose? Do you choose just out of chance? Even when you feel like there must be something like chance, there need not be necessarily. Maybe the reasoning is just too chaotic/complex to understand it, and thatswhy it seems like you choose something by chance. Imagine there was no chance... then there would be always a reason for what you did/do/will do. You cannot understand the reasoning behind everything according to my theory because you cannot calculate things too complex for you... resulting in chaos... not predictable for us... seemingly chance.

but the tricky part about fate... you can't tell which events are predetermined... and which events are not... although all things happen with choice... complex? that's why we're confused and there is no conclusion and this is such a debatable issue... in other words... we walk a life guided by fate... but we have a choice to break out of it... for us buddhists.. the more good deeds u do... the more likely you are to break the cycle you were born in....

i have more to say but i'll leave ppl to comment first

Well did you ever question what choice you really have? Why do you think what you think at the moment you think it? There is not a direct cause to some effect, because you can always question what caused the cause that caused the cuase and so on... you can do this infinite of times... when you trace it far enough back, a very very very unimportant cause caused the effect... but well one cannot rip this out of the system, so all causes in the universe influence each other... that makes the whole thing far more complicated. I am sure that sounds silly, but it sounds logical to me.

[Thyrz]

Jinto Lin, what makes you think like this? If it's so complex and chaotic, and it cannot be touched, nor destroyed, nor created, how would a human mind get to this idea? Doesn't this make it JUST another theory?

[Jinto]

Originally Posted by Thyrz

Jinto Lin, what makes you think like this? If it's so complex and chaotic, and it cannot be touched, nor destroyed, nor created, how would a human mind get to this idea? Doesn't this make it JUST another theory?

It does... but I have faith in it hehe. My own theory says I will never be able to prove it, so I must belief that it is true... but I chose it because of logical reasons, the theory can explain nearly everything without being contradictious in the inner logic.

[Thyrz]

Originally Posted by Jinto Lin

It does... but I have faith in it hehe. My own theory says I will never be able to prove it, so I must belief that it is true... but I chose it because of logical reasons, the theory can explain nearly everything without being contradictious in the inner logic.

To each his own

[Rhia]

I was having this conversation the other day, and i beleive there is such thing as fate and destiny, you know those grass mazes where theres LOADS of routes to get to the exit but theres just one exit, well i beleive thats how life works, no matter what route you take you'll always end up at that one destination and and that is your destiny, like your destiny maybe you'll have a wife/husband and 3 kids and die at the age of 88 and i think those routes to the exit of the maze play out life different, eg one route you might get married to an indian or another a japanese person and every decision you make leads you off to a new route.if that makes sense.,well i dunno i'd like to beleive i guess,
can i ask you a question,

How can you tell the difference between a coincedence and something that happened for a reason personally i think coincedences are the ingrediences to a reason, and to tell the difference is how the person at the time determines it from there experience...what do you think?

[Thyrz]

This is getting retarded:P The reason someone made up these stories about jezus christ and crap like that is for people to have faith, so it's easier to go through hard times. It's good to believe in something even though it does not exist.

This is probably just the same. Someone who was wayyy too curious did not understand JACK about it, and made up a story about fate and destiny etc.

I mean, come on, we don't live in a fantasy world here.

It's just like aliens visiting our planet. They came from freakin 230521745 gaziliion lightyears ,from a planet called Iggypiggy, travelling to earth, they go down and they pound in a circle on a corn field?? Btw, in the Netherlands literally translated they're grain circles. So they're like "Ooo wait no we're in the Netherlands, we have to pound a circle in the grain here!"

Did you see Signs? So they came from a freakin 1342351234895 gazillion lightyears from a planet called Oogyboogy, and they can't open a fucking door?? And at the end the only harm they can do is spray gass, and the boy is saved cuz he has asthma. I'm not donating any more money, it's good for somethin now! And then they find out they can't take water. C'mon, THE EARTH IS MADE LIKE 90% OF WATER!!

*cough*

Err sorry. So err fate.. yeah, BS ;P If I want to go to Iraq, I would go. If I want to kill myself right now, I would. Some might say love is also a part of destiny, but what love really is, is some chemicals in your body being released, or something like that.

And Rhia, what do you mean by happening for a reason? What if I'd die in a car crash today. The reason would be that I'm a shitty driver:P Either that or the other guy who was in the accident was. Is this what you mean?

Call me sceptical, but I'm just being realistic here.

edit: There is a difference in being open-minded, and being gullable.

[Rhia]

Originally Posted by Thyrz

This is getting retarded:P The reason someone made up these stories about jezus christ and crap like that is for people to have faith, so it's easier to go through hard times. It's good to believe in something even though it does not exist..

i agree with you to a certain extent. I dont really "beleive in god" but id like to believe there is a higher being some where, i dont beleive in god because i need alot of proof, and although im 13 ive been through some sh*t and i dont feel god was there..

Originally Posted by Thyrz

And Rhia, what do you mean by happening for a reason? What if I'd die in a car crash today. The reason would be that I'm a shitty driver:P Either that or the other guy who was in the accident was. Is this what you mean?

Call me sceptical, but I'm just being realistic here.

i understand what your saying, to me that would be a coincedence, do you think everything is just a coincedence then?dont you beleive anything happens for a reason?

and i think love is different to different people...
But when your in love im sure you'll know it some how..

[Thyrz]

Originally Posted by Rhia

i understand what your saying, to me that would be a coincedence, do you think everything is just a coincedence then?dont you beleive anything happens for a reason?

These things happen for practical, explainable(unlike fate) reasons. I would like you to show me an example of something that "happened for a reason".

Originally Posted by Rhia

and i think love is different to different people...
But when your in love im sure you'll know it some how..

You will know when you're in love, yes. I don't understand what you mean by "different to different people", sorry :/ please explain.

Holy hell, you're only 13! Next, please!