Rozen Maiden ~Träumend~ (Season 2)

[sakabatouX]

Hi guys !! i recently watch all the whole 2 seasons of rozen maiden and i was so hooked that i watched all of it in 3 days.... but i got a question for the last part. I read through the Q and A for RM but couldnt find it...

Well, here goes.. Im still puzzled on why souseiseki and hina ichigo couldnt be 'revived' by rozen. I later thought and came to a conclusion that it was because they werent 'killed' by another rozen doll but by barasuishou but what confuses me is suigintous revival. How come she could revive(most likely it was done by rozen i think) when she was 'killed' by another rozen doll(shinku in the first season) and that both Souseiseki and Hina-ichigo couldnt .Ahhh it pains me to see souseiseki go like that..but as long as suigintou and suiseiseki are still around im quite content .Hehe.

[grey_moon]

Originally Posted by sakabatouX

Hi guys !! i recently watch all the whole 2 seasons of rozen maiden and i was so hooked that i watched all of it in 3 days.... but i got a question for the last part. I read through the Q and A for RM but couldnt find it...

Well, here goes.. Im still puzzled on why souseiseki and hina ichigo couldnt be 'revived' by rozen. I later thought and came to a conclusion that it was because they werent 'killed' by another rozen doll but by barasuishou but what confuses me is suigintous revival. How come she could revive(most likely it was done by rozen i think) when she was 'killed' by another rozen doll(shinku in the first season) and that both Souseiseki and Hina-ichigo couldnt .Ahhh it pains me to see souseiseki go like that..but as long as suigintou and suiseiseki are still around im quite content .Hehe.

I think it is because their bodies were not in an n-field

[Deathkillz]

well i think its because
1) ginsama was in her n-field which didnt cause her real body to go up in flames or it might have lessened the impact to allow her to survive but barely ~ and inside her case she recovered somewat...

remeber at the end of the 1st season gin was burnt to a crisp but when she came back again in the 2nd season to make the contract with megu she looks nearly fully recovered

2) well her rosa mystical wasnt taken unlike hina and sui (i blame the rabbit for this T_T)

[the.Merines]

Right. Shinku never took Suigintou's Rosa Mystica, which apparently allows the defeated doll to suffer massive damage and still be revived and fixed.

PS- in the latest manga chapters, Sou-chan seems to make a return.

[Nidas]

I think its cos Boku and Hina's fights were the only "legitimate" fights. Think about it:

1. Shinku challenges and beats Hina. At the close of the series Hina loses her rosa mystica because she lost legitimately.

2. Boku challenges and loses to Gin (correct me if I'm wrong here, my memory is a bit fuzzy on that part of the series). At the close of the series Boku loses her rosa mystica because she lost legitimately.

All the others lost their rosa mysticas in the "final battle" which was more or less orchestrated by Laplace/Enju/Bara and thus doesn't count cos Bara isn't a real Rozen Maiden.

Gin gets resurrected in the first instance because A. Shinku did not take her rosa mystica and B. she fought without a medium presumably making Rozen think she still has potential so he revives her. The second death is off the record too because she did not lose in a "legitimate" fight. If that all makes sense.

Well thats what I've always assumed anyway. Where my theory runs into problems is how Laplace ends up with the rosa mysticas at the end =/

[Deathkillz]

i bet the laplace is working with rozen T_T he fixed the dolls so he should have had the rosa mysticas with him (to but back into the dolls that he fixed) so if he did indeed decide that hina and sui should remain "lifeless" then he would have to have given the rosa mystica to someone else...thats where laplace comes in >.<

[Alu]

Originally Posted by Nidas

Well thats what I've always assumed anyway. Where my theory runs into problems is how Laplace ends up with the rosa mysticas at the end =/

No, no.. your actualy quite correct on your assumptions.

The Alice Game is A pathway for the Rozen Maiden to take in order to reach Alice; however many implications come into place upon taking the choice to take part in "this" pathway, but above all it is stated that it is a valid (and until before the end of ~Traumend~ to our knowlodge the only) way for a Rozen Maiden to become Alice.

Now as we all know Shinku had a very diferent prespective on what is to become Alice at the time she chose to fight Hina, so implications as those that followed after she had seen what became of Gin in her defeat.., ment little to no matter in her conscience.
Shinku layed down the challenge, Hina toke it.
Hina lost.., so eventualy when the time came for Shinku to reclaim her Rosa Mystica, she could and Hina would have no power over it.

However there are more rules at work here..., as for example the reason as for why Hina's Rosa Mystica started to leave her body, even against Shinku's will is that it seems to be bound to a "there is no going back" rule.
We assume that when a Rosa Mystica leaves the body of a Rozen Maiden, it cannot be set back without the aid of a exceptional skilled Maestro, however the simple fact that one has left its body seems to trigger in motion all the others into following this said rule; as if it was part of the 'game' itself, once triggered.. all immediatly became affected and (as far as we know so far) unable to revert the process on they're own.

Sousei Seki willingly acepted the challenge aswell. Fightning against Gin blinded by her own devotion, she chose this path.
Hence having then been defeated by Gin, and having Gin claimed her Rosa Mystica after, the Alice Game had officialy been moved to its next stage (where such rules then come into play as I previously stated).

Now what differentiates these two outcomes in the Alice Game when in relation to everything that happened when Bara was involved is purely and simply much like Nidas stated, these two challenges where legitimate, for they had been fought solely by true Rozen Maiden.
The Irony in this is.. sadly Bara was fightning a battle that was already lost at the start, however there was no way for her or Enju to know that she would be unable to contain that number Rosa Mysticae within her body without falling apart..

Faced with this outcome and with Bara Suishou not beeing a true Rozen Maiden, Rozen himself then decided to restore all of the Rosa Mystica, those which where won by Bara, into they're rightful bodies.
..however this does not mean that Rozen was unable to restore Hina's or Sou's Rosa Mystica, much by the contrary...

In all comes down to a simple fact... a decision.
Rozen decided that those who had fought in the Alice Game willingly and legitimately, should had then taken in mind its full consequences..., because they had chosen this path they now did not deserve to be restored.
I know it does sound harsh but it is what the Alice Game is about.., the choices that one takes and the consequences that one must bare..., the remaining Rozen Maiden where fooled and guided into battle by Bara, Enju and Laplace.

Making this that.. they did not chose that path solely of they're own will, for as we recall.. most even entered it simply to just try and put a stop to it.
..and to why Rozen toke the decision that he did.

Unfortunatly we are then left with a final piece in the puzzle which holds no answer.., this beeing of course as to how Laplace gains hold of both Hina and Sou's Rosa Mystica.

It is up to Shinku and the remaining Rozen Maiden now to find for themselves a diferent path to become Alice, and in the process to restore Hina and Sou's Rosa Mysticae.., but the reasons as to why and how Laplace now holds keep of them go beyond compreehension.
..Hence.. we can only view this aspect as something aside, something that hopefuly a Season 3 in the future will reveal us.

In the end.. the main answer here regarding Hina's and Sou's Rosa Mystica is that.. Rozen could have in fact restored them, but due to all the implications previously stated, he chose not to.
If Laplace had any influence on this decision or by some mean is designated to hold keep of the Rosa Mysticae that are taken in 'that' process we can (currently) only speculate about.., for if following the correct rules.. Rozen should have given Shinku Hina's Rosa Mystica and Gin's - Sousei Seki's.

I for sure belive there is more detailed information regarding the role of the Alice Game on this post on the Q & A's thread, feel free to check it
POST #17

[Ziv]

Ok here's something I wanna know: What is it that makes us obsess over this show so much? I mean, it's so interesting, but I honestly can't pin down why. It doesn't seem like there's anything in this show that hasn't already been done before. Is it the victorian style dresses? The appealing characters? The emotional issues and character development? Is it the perfect combination of all the above? Or is it just the fact that all the main characters are dolls? I'm leaning towards the fact that the characters are dolls, but I don't get it. What the heck is it that makes talking victorian-clad dolls so interesting?!

[Lost]

Yes, it is the dolls. They are vulnerable, and need our protection. That equals moe. Plus the ones that matter are tsundere.

It could also be the fanbase and the nice people posting here that makes us come back again and again (thats true for me). While we're here, what else is there to talk about except Rozen Maiden?

[Mincemaker]

Their personalities. That's what made these dolls so appealing.

[Nidas]

Originally Posted by Ziv

Ok here's something I wanna know: What is it that makes us obsess over this show so much? I mean, it's so interesting, but I honestly can't pin down why. It doesn't seem like there's anything in this show that hasn't already been done before. Is it the victorian style dresses? The appealing characters? The emotional issues and character development? Is it the perfect combination of all the above? Or is it just the fact that all the main characters are dolls? I'm leaning towards the fact that the characters are dolls, but I don't get it. What the heck is it that makes talking victorian-clad dolls so interesting?!

The characters. Its very rare for me to like so many characters from one series

[the.Merines]

I obsess over it because the story is unfinished.

[Deathkillz]

^ lol nice one and also very true ~ with speculations flying here and there on whats gonna happen next (or not) it just keeps the topic alive ^_^

[Shadow Miko]

I'm sure there will be more. Why else would they quit the manga? Right? Right? Bored of it I suppose. But no more Kira...D;

[blitz1/2]

Originally Posted by Shadow Miko

I'm sure there will be more. Why else would they quit the manga? Right? Right? Bored of it I suppose. But no more Kira...D;

Why? They must have Kira!

If they dropped season 3, then there would be no point in showing Kira in the end of season 2 with Laplace.

[Suiseiseki]

Originally Posted by Ziv

Ok here's something I wanna know: What is it that makes us obsess over this show so much? I mean, it's so interesting, but I honestly can't pin down why. It doesn't seem like there's anything in this show that hasn't already been done before. Is it the victorian style dresses? The appealing characters? The emotional issues and character development? Is it the perfect combination of all the above? Or is it just the fact that all the main characters are dolls? I'm leaning towards the fact that the characters are dolls, but I don't get it. What the heck is it that makes talking victorian-clad dolls so interesting?!

For me it's Suiseiseki's doll joints. I find her doll joints soo sexy, I can't stop dreaming about those...

Actually, the reason I like Rozen Maiden is the character development in both seasons and Ouverture. Even though the Alice game provides the driving force behind the Maidens' actions, it was the character development that made me love the show. I like all the dolls, minus nutcase lesbian Kira. equally. Ya, I even like little Kanada, I mean Kanaria.

Originally Posted by Deathkillz

^ lol nice one and also very true ~ with speculations flying here and there on whats gonna happen next (or not) it just keeps the topic alive ^_^

Spoiler for I've been to the future and back:

Suiseiseki becomes Alice!

[Mincemaker]

Originally Posted by Suiseiseki

Spoiler for I've been to the future and back:

Suiseiseki becomes Alice!

*Triple backstab + cold blood eviscerate. Don't ask how I can pull off three backstabs at once*

Lies! Suigintou hime-sama is the best candidate to become Alice!

[devilgirl11]

i agreee with Mincemaker
Gin-sama is already Alice xD

[blitz1/2]

I prefer Kirakishou for Alice. She could give the best kiss to Father.

[Lost]

Originally Posted by Suiseiseki

Actually, the reason I like Rozen Maiden is the character development in both seasons and Ouverture. Even though the Alice game provides the driving force behind the Maidens' actions, it was the character development that made me love the show. I like all the dolls, minus nutcase lesbian Kira. equally. Ya, I even like little Kanada, I mean Kanaria.

To add to that fine (and OMG serious) comment, I'd like to say that I continue to fawn over this series because I like the themes that the Alice Game create in the show (which the OVA brought back to mind). I like the themes therein - sisters who were made to unmake each other and yet to love each other; also the fairness or lack of it of a father; etc etc. Pretty dark and convoluted, I like. Also, because such a situation seems impossible to solve, this makes it interesting for me. So I guess I really want to see how it'll be resolved.