[Game] Umineko no Naku Koro ni - Ep. 2 Turn of the golden witch

[kj1980]

Well Ep 2 shows us that anyone could bring six people to a certain location and kill them off.

Ep. 2 showed us a glimpse where Krauss, Natsuhi, Rudolf, Kyrie, Eva, Hideyoshi, and Rosa were all agreeing that Beatrice was real at the sanctuary late that night.


The next day, Rosa was the only one that lived while the others were mutilated at the sanctuary. Yet she says that "she's never been there."

How convenient???



Beatrice is a witch that is used to signify the supernatural. If it is difficult to explain, the easy answer is that a witch named Beatrice did it. It is Battler(your) job to prove otherwise.

Ever notice how everything supernatural (i.e. Kanon's sword, Shannon's shield, the battles with goat-headed butlers, overly moe~ humanized rods, etc.) all happen when it isn't witnessed by Battler?

Lamdadelta also gave us a hint: "Beatrice overdo these things too much that it's too easy to tell it isn't right."

Much like Higurashi: don't believe what you are seeing...instead analyze what is occurring and rationalize and you begin to see things more clearly.





I'm also beginning to think that when Rosa and Maria were the final two running away from Rokkenjima, the butterflies could be fire. Rosa battling against those goat-headed butlers also seem strange...they don't die when she shoots them in the body, but they die when their heads are. Could they be some sort of military guys wearing bullet-proof vests???

[kj1980]

Another interesting note:

In Ep. 1, Rudolf says something like "I'm going to die tonight"
In Ep. 2 Rosa receives a letter from Beatrice...and seems like she used what was written there to bring the six people to the sanctuary.


So perhaps in Ep. 1, Rudolf was the one who received the letter???

Quoting Beatrice when she handed the letter to Rosa, "It could've been any of you four siblings, but since I met you here, it must mean that Kinzo's roulette has befallen upon you"

[Sushi-Y]

I must say that Umineko is the only story that I have ever read that manages to annoy and entertain me at the same time.

To copy the guys above, an overall impression of EP2 for me would be:

Spoiler:

Jessica's tsurupettan lol
That "light blade" effect is way overused, I loled when Kanon had to materalize it like 5 times before actually fighting
George's nice guy-ness is getting on my nerves.
Shotgun Rosa pissed me off, give me Shotgun Natsuhi back!
Maria annoyed me less this time around, probably because I dislike Rosa even more than Maria.
Kouda is actually my favorite for this episode What a great guy

The constant "timeout session" between Battler and Beatrice kinda broke the flow of the story for me. At least in Higurashi, the coherency of the story is maintained through logical developments. But Umineko seems to have already given up on telling a reasonable tale. Instead, you get a mess of a story development with little logic, and a bunch of "outside commentators" separate from the actual game ennvironment who seems to be able to control how the story proceeds based on their argument. Even though in Higurashi we eventually learned of the real trick behind each chapter, the chapters are still fully enjoyable on their own. Of course, there's no telling if Umineko will have just as big of a twist in the end (it probably will), but right now, I feel as if I'm reading Watanagashi-hen with Matsuribayashi-hen characters interrupting the game periodically to give me unwanted commentaries.

Even Kanon and Shannon's, er, supposedly impressive performance against Beatrice didn't really wow me for some reason. Although I will admit that all of the servants in this episode were far more likable than the Ushiromiya family members.

I think the story didn't really pick up for me until the very end, where Rosa and Maria's escape made me feel that same thrilling excitement from Matsuribayashi-hen. Or maybe it's just because the atmosphere of EP2 had been absolutely stagnant up until that final breakout.

The tea party was interesting, as usual. If it weren't for the fact that they kept interrupting the story, I actually really enjoy watching Battler and Beatrice bicker.

For some reason, I was wondering what Keiichi and the gang would do if they found out that a little loli was responsible for all their pain. I have a feeling Keiichi would go KOOL, and then Rena will hau~ omochikaeri~ her.

Bernkastel's nipa~ was the single most moe moment in this episode.

Anyway, to think about this using Higurashi's logic that "not everything shown is true", then we can always include "hallucination" as an option when attempting to explain certain phenomenons. Maybe there's a "Rokkenjima Syndrome" here that's caused by a certain agent? Maybe the golden butterflies are actually some kind of airborne hallucinogen that, if inhaled, would cause people to see and do weird things?

[Sterling01]

Originally Posted by Sushi-Y

Spoiler:

I feel as if I'm reading Watanagashi-hen with Matsuribayashi-hen characters interrupting the game periodically to give me unwanted commentaries.

I don't quite get what you mean here.

Originally Posted by Sushi-Y

Bernkastel's nipa~ was the single most moe moment in this episode.

Amen to that.

[Sushi-Y]

Originally Posted by Sterling01

I don't quite get what you mean here.

In Higurashi, we don't really understand the "true workings" behind each chapter until it was explained to us in Minagoroshi and Matsuribayashi-hen. So even though we eventually come to understand chapters such as Onikakushi-hen as nothing more than a "failed example", we were still able to enjoy Onikakushi-hen for what it was at the time: an engaging and thrilling tale of suspense and drama.

In EP2 of Umineko, however, we have 2 characters who have essentially taken up a "commentator" point of view over the story development (similar to Bernkastel going over the chapter pieces in Minagoroshi and Matsuribayashi-hen), offering their opinions and analysis on the current development, and therefore "spoiling" the chance for the reader to become truly absorbed in the "actual story". With EP1 Battler and Beatrice assuming an "overseer" position, the actual story feels like it has been reduced to "something used in their argument". The player (you), of course, is the ultimate observer, so the presence of these commentators meant that we have to take a step back in order for us to take in not only the actual story, but the exchanges going on between these commentators as well. For me personally, having to examine Battler and Beatrice's "commentaries" has made the actual story in EP2 far less absorbing (many movie DVDs have "commentary tracks" that features the director or actors commenting on the movie as it played out. This is similar to that. Would you want to watch a movie for the first time with the commentaries turned on? No, because we wouldn't be able to focus on the movie itself)

Of course, Battler and Beatrice's exchanges aren't simply commentaries, the two of them are engaged in their own little world that can be considered part of the overall Umineko story as well. But for me, all their debates and definitions so far (red words, for example) simply made the actual story less appealing as a proper tale, but instead made it feel more liked a tool used in presenting their arguments. In the end, this ambiguity kind of ruined the story for me since I found myself unable to attach to anything out of fear that it's just going to be another tool for Beatrice or Battler's arguments.

[Rias]

Finally finished it...story started abit slow like episode 1, but once about 40% of the story was passed, it sure was one hell of a scenario. It definitely suprised me from time to time, and my interest went up and up as it went on.

As a story, it's done in a strange way. Like Sushi-Y said, having the commentaries was weird. However, thinking what this episode was about, I think it was actually alright that they did that. After all, this epsiode is suppose to make all the non-believers to surrender and acknowledge the witch. At least that was better than the whole scene with Kanon and the goat-servants, which I still don't know what was going on.

Currently I am leaned towards the witch after she has shown her superiority over the rest of the cast, and that the only other logical explanation I can come up with is "Conicidence + Acting + Hallucination inducing drugs/disease/animals" (I am hoping Ryukkishi07 can do better than reuse the whole 'Hinamizawa Syndrome' thing) Of course, I have my doubts at various points that prevents me from buying completely into the witch theory (gotta go read ep1 again and recheck), that being:

1. First closed room seems fishy
2. Various changes from ep1 -> ep2, noticably the deaths.
3. Bernkenstel's advice in the hidden tea party
4. Beatrice's envelope.
5. Beatrice's red text. Especially the first line.

[melange]

This ep was extremely bloody wasn't it?

Originally Posted by kj1980

So perhaps in Ep. 1, Rudolf was the one who received the letter???

Quoting Beatrice when she handed the letter to Rosa, "It could've been any of you four siblings, but since I met you here, it must mean that Kinzo's roulette has befallen upon you"

Difference is that Rosa lived but Rudolf didn't... of course since there's the "can't-tell-whose-face-it-really-is" the make things murky, I guess we can safely say Rudolf was still alive in ep1?

Also the issue of Rosa's absence of an alibi never came up (like it did for Eva+Hideyoshi), suspicious?

Originally Posted by Sushi-Y

For some reason, I was wondering what Keiichi and the gang would do if they found out that a little loli was responsible for all their pain. I have a feeling Keiichi would go KOOL, and then Rena will hau~ omochikaeri~ her.

Bernkastel's nipa~ was the single most moe moment in this episode.

Agreed, Bern-aneki is overwhelmingly moe. XD I wanted to dance when I heard preholder's Over the Sky when Bern talked about her previous experience.

I find it interesting that Lambda sometimes takes up Satoko's speech patterns ("munya-munya-aryashinai"). I also loved how Lambda throws in a reference to the "All-pawns-queened" scenario of Matsurib ayashi-hen. LOL

For some reason, the 'jan-ken-pon-trinity' of Bern-Lambda-Beat makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside... LOL too at Beat being a 'danmaku-type witch'

Originally Posted by Rias

At least that was better than the whole scene with Kanon and the goat-servants, which I still don't know what was going on.

I have my doubts at various points that prevents me from buying completely into the witch theory (gotta go read ep1 again and recheck), that being:

1. First closed room seems fishy

I'm one of those that loved the atmosphere back in Onikakushi/Watanagashi when it all seemed like there was supernatural interference, so I'm enjoying the seeming hegemony of the witch-theory right now.

I actually found Kanon's 'fight' scene very well done. It made me sit up and stare closely at the monitor while watching it play out. That, and Rosa's final stand. I was a bit disappointed when the scrolling text announcing the results came out as it seemed a flat point to end the episode but Rosa's epilogue was amazing. Earlier someone said Shotgun Rosa > Shotgun Natsuhi but I think its a bit more nuanced than that. True final Shotgun Rosa >>>> final Shotgun Natsuhi but normal Shotgun Rosa was a bit more annoying than normal Shotgun Natsuhi.

[Bokunenjin]

Finally got around to finishing all of episode 2. All in all it left me with pretty much mixed feelings. On the one hand I thought all the supernatural elements were pretty awesome, on the other it seems to totally defeat the whole point of the conversations between Battler and Beatrice. I'm still hoping that all the magic is faked somehow and it's all some sort of human conspiracy.

One thing that kind of got to me was the eagerness of Shotgun Rosa to blame everything on the others instead of on the witch which she herself had seen multiple times at that point. Even if it's possible to explain away the supernatural as daydreams or hallucinations it's still a fact multiple people have seen a 19th person (real or otherwise), and to point the blame at each other instead of the uninvited guest that conveniently disappears on the first night seems rather odd. Especially since the certainty provided by Beatrice's red text about for example the amount of keys or the way rooms were locked is not available to the people in the story.

[theacefrehley]

Originally Posted by Bokunenjin

One thing that kind of got to me was the eagerness of Shotgun Rosa to blame everything on the others instead of on the witch which she herself had seen multiple times at that point. Even if it's possible to explain away the supernatural as daydreams or hallucinations it's still a fact multiple people have seen a 19th person (real or otherwise), and to point the blame at each other instead of the uninvited guest that conveniently disappears on the first night seems rather odd. Especially since the certainty provided by Beatrice's red text about for example the amount of keys or the way rooms were locked is not available to the people in the story.

Let's join some pieces

ep. 1 => Rosa = faceless
ep. 2 => your post

Could she have some involvement?

[Koopen]

I have a question regarding the compatibility of the game Umineko in Vista..

I recently got my copy of Umineko No Naku Koro ni Ep 2 and I was very eager to play but in the end I had so many problems to install it and finally when I wanted to play, a window appear saying about some error.

Can Umineko work well in windows vista?

I need help please
I want to see Bernkastel-chan

[Sterling01]

This Guide might help you

[Nabiki Asakura]

Hey, minna, it's me, Nabiki, the one who can't speak japanese \=D/


Someone can tell me everything about the scenes with Kanon and Jessica in this episode?XD

[kj1980]

Originally Posted by Sushi-Y

Anyway, to think about this using Higurashi's logic that "not everything shown is true", then we can always include "hallucination" as an option when attempting to explain certain phenomenons. Maybe there's a "Rokkenjima Syndrome" here that's caused by a certain agent? Maybe the golden butterflies are actually some kind of airborne hallucinogen that, if inhaled, would cause people to see and do weird things?

Yes, I'm all with you for the statement that "not everything shown is true." However, I don't think Ryukishi would be able to pull off another "Syndrome" stint after Higurashi as that'll be too repetitive.

But you do bring up a good point on how much Beatrice changes in her personality. When calm, she is rather nice. But when things go crazy, she uses very expletive words that are bound to cringe upon any person's psychosis.

[Sterling01]

Code Geass meets Umineko

[kj1980]

Speaking of which, zts' "Worldend_dominator" kicks ass...it's one, if not the best music in Umineko Ep. 2

[nagare]

I'm late to the party.
I finally got my copy and finished it.
Before I go on, I’ll apologize for my poor English.
I have a long post and I’ll try to make it as comprehensible as possible. ^^;

First impression.
一流の執事はすごいね。 源治さん渋スギ

Overall impression.
Even though I don't know what the answer is, but Umineko doesn't seem as confusing or as difficult as Higurashi (not claiming the mystery itself is easy). It's enjoyable in its own right, but since it lacks the OMG WTF shock factor, it isn't as engulfing as a story as Higurashi, at least imo.

Battler vs Beatrice sideline commentary.
It’s interesting. I like their interaction and their belittling snipes they make towards each other. I feel the red text is a bit cheating in a way. Ryukishi can describe it better, but it just seem like an opt out. It saves a lot of writing I guess… but, it just doesn’t feel right.
But I love how Battler says 俺は人間を信じてるからだッ！！ and continues to fight for this logic, although I think Battler is wrong in that regard but it was awesome.

Just a random thought about that date: I wonder if Ryuukishi chose the 4th and 5th as 死 and 後 and to continue off the number theme as with Miyo and Hifumi? I can’t think of any significance with the date itself, but it’s interesting that Ryukishi chose to emphasize Halloween at such an early part of the month. Halloween that year was a Friday so I think he could have pulled off the same story using that date instead. I’m probably thinking too much into the date.

Spoiler:

After reading this episode, I have some guesses to what's happening.
First, what I'm basing my thoughts on:

1. I do not believe Beatrice "exists."
   
2. Beatrice is not a person or at least a single person or a group of people.
   She is a personification of a governing rule in the game.
   I have a hunch that people claim to say they saw “Beatrice” for their own reasons, not to push a goal for a single purpose. It’s a convenient name to place blame for something. So the “Beatrice” that the characters claim they saw or talk to may or may not be the same person. Since each character can give a bullshit description of Beatrice due to the picture and the lore that surrounds her, the person the actually saw (if they even saw someone to begin with) doesn’t have to look like her as long as all the people involved agree that they all saw Beatrice. This is seems to be the underlining rule of the game. Beatrice exists because the characters agree she “exits.” The characters hide their lies under the cover of the name Beatrice and while all these lies share the same name, their intent and purpose are not, thus creating this imaginary persona. That is why “Beatrice” is unpredictable, carefree, and tries to overdo/exaggerate what happens.
   
3. Since Beatrice does not exits, every time Beatrice is physically in the story (aside Battler's sideline conversations with Beatrice and the tea parties), there is a lie being told. This includes her butterfly form.
   
4. Battler did his best to prove that no one in the family or the servants could be that inhuman, however, when he had to believe otherwise he gave in to the witch to escape that reality. This strengthens my belief that there are inhuman person(s) within the family/servants.
   
5. I do not believe in any magic in the story, but I will believe in the following: the picks, the red text, and the riddle. I believe the picks tell the truth to why the people are killed and the order they are killed but not who they killed as the riddle do not specify this info. They are symbolic and if one of these is false then the picks loose their meaning. The red text and the riddle, I’m going to give the benefit of the doubt to Beatrice since if any of these are used falsely, it kind of ruins the entire “gaming” aspect and their significance.
   
6. The 19th person. I won’t rule out the plausibility but, unless I can rule out the other 18 people on the island for that incident, I will not seriously consider this mysterious person.

Spoiler for Pre-Oct 4th:

Shannon’s Beatrice
Shannon falls in love with George, but Eva learns of this and is set break their relationship. "Beatrice" promises to make their love succeed if Shannon breaks a mirror. The whole side adventure Shannon goes on is a bit far fetch to believe and is probably another tall tale like those exaggerated battles later in the story. The mirror “Beatrice” asks to break is possibly the precious mirror that Natsuhi keeps (just an assumption based on the fact we know Natsuhi’s mirror actually exits). The "Shannon’s Beatrice" has to be someone who can help that situation. This "Beatrice" can't be Eva, so this is possibly Krauss, Rosa, Rudolf, or Kinzo. A wild card may be Genji or Hideyoshi, but I don't think they have the power to push it. It doesn't make sense for Rosa or Rudolf to be on the island and Kinzo isn't likely either.

My thoughts:
“Shannon’s Beatrice”

1. is a person who can help her with the situation with George.

   
   a. Thus this person cannot be Eva, Kanon, George, or Shannon

   Most likely not Kinzo or Jessica

   b. Was on the island at this time.

   • 100% were on the island

     Kinzo, Krauss, Natsuhi, Jessica, Eva, Hideyoshi,
     George, Shannon, Kanon

   • Was likely on the island

     Genji

   • Could have been on the island

     Nanjo, Gohda, Kumasawa, Leon, Manon

   • Probably were not on the island

     Rudolf, Kyrie, Battler, Kyrie’s daughter, Rosa, Maria, George’s Fiancé

2. knows about a mirror.

   a. Is this mirror Natsuhi’s?
   b. People who know about a “magic” mirror:

   Natsuhi, (Krauss?), Gohda, and Kumasawa

Leon
Leon is in the story kinda. He is liked by the Family, hated by Kanon and somewhat by Shannon. He's somewhat lazy only cleaning the parts that he knows Natsuhi and Krauss will check. I guess this means he knows their habits, but I guess that could be applied to any of the servants.

My thoughts:
Leon is mentioned a second time in the story. Is this to add flavor or to remind players that there are other servants?

Jessica’s Guitar
Jessica practices her guitar somewhere in secret. This might be the school or...?
I find it strange that Ryukishi continuously push this idea of secret rooms and passage ways. Possibly there might be one. Ryukishi wasn't against using the idea in Higurashi with the hidden Saiguden in the Sonozaki manor.

My thoughts:
Was the entire guitar scene just for fanfare or does it have a purpose in the story?
If it does, Jessica practices her guitar in secret from her family. This could be at the school, however, in Episode 1 it is mentioned she misses school every so often due to her commute. It’s also suspicious that Ryukishi pushes the idea of secret rooms and passage ways often in the story.

Spoiler for Oct. 4th, 1986:

Luggage
When Rosa gets to the island, she refuses Gouda to help her with her bags.
Rosa also immediately goes to her room alone.

My thoughts:
If Gohda was lying, then anyone could have brought the gold bars.
If Gohda was telling the truth, Rosa is well beyond suspicious, however, it could have been other things in that bag besides the gold bars.

Rosa and Kyrie
The parents have their tea party. While many of them seem hostile to each other Rosa and Kyrie have somewhat a mutual relationship. They were also the first in the Family to see “Beatrice.”

My thoughts:
Can something be read further into that scene? If anything Kyrie has some interest in Rosa. It could be that they both have young daughters (縁寿, age 4~6?), however.

The Garden
Again, Rosa leaves the tea party to find Maria in the garden.
Again, the game makes the point that anyone knowing Maria's personality will know that this will happen. Again, the game makes the point that the other kids leave thinking that Rosa and Maria are together. Again, Rosa is the one that manufactures this event to happen. However, both in Episode 1 and 2, George is the one who picks out a rose which draws Maria’s attention although in Episode 2 this does not seem to play any important role to the story… I think.

Kanon approaches Maria afterwards. Why was he hiding in the bushes?
Kanon freely despises Rosa in front of Maria despite being her being a Ushiromiya which is somewhat out of his servant demeanor. Usually, he will never show his feelings to them unless pushed. The only exception is "Beatrice" who he despises.

Rosa and Maria receive their letters. Again, who gave them the letters?
Whoever gave them the letters was able to seal them in Kinzo's wax seal and using his envelops. In Episode 1, the only people who knew Kinzo's threw out his ring are Kinzo, Genji, and Kanon. Assuming the same happened in Episode 2, Kanon is very likely to picked up the ring. If he did, then Kanon may have passed the ring to Maria to be passed to “Beatrice” instead of giving the ring to her himself.

My thoughts:
Well, this seems to be a set sequence of events.

1. George points out a rose.
2. Maria makes a fit, Rosa gets angry and Maria stays in the garden.
3. Everyone leaves Rosa and Maria
4. Rosa joins the adults, but later goes to find Maria
5. Maria gets a letter.
   1. It is unknown if Beatrice always handed out two letters, but it sounds like she does.
   2. Kanon was in the garden in Episode 1 and 2. Did he approach Maria in Episode 1 after everyone left as he did in Episode 2?
   3. Did Kinzo throw his ring in Episode 2? If he did, was it the same faces who saw him throw the ring out?

Maria’s Witches
Someone draws in Maria's scrapbook. Who is this Beatrice?
Maria believes that when Rosa beats her, Rosa is being possessed by an evil witch.

My thoughts:
Maria instantly recognizes person who gave Rosa and herself the letter as Beatrice. That would mean this person is likely to be the Beatrice who draws in her scrapbook.

But Maria believes that when Rosa beats her, Rosa is being possessed by an evil witch.
Maria is extremely gullible… If Rosa pretends she was possessed by a good witch name Beatrice, then Rosa could be “Maria’s Beatrice.”

Who is Maria’s Beatrice (Who gave them the letters)?
Kinzo was in his room with Nanjo.
Battler, George, Jessica and Shannon were together…
Gohda had to do dinner preparations. He most likely will not have a chance to give them the letters.

Krauss, Natsuhi, Eva, Hideyoshi, Rudolf, and Kyrie were talking. But we know that Natsuhi and Kyrie left at one point.

Genji, Kanon, and Kumasawa whereabouts are unknown. Kanon is unlikely as if he was the letter giver, he could have given the letters before Rosa came in unless he did, and Rosa made up the entire Beatrice encounter. I do not think this is likely as Maria would also have to continue telling that lie.

So Natsuhi, Kyrie, Genji, and Kumasawa are possible as well as “Rosa possessed by Beatrice.” Kanon could have easily passed the ring to any of them. However, I do not think Natsuhi is likely due to the events in Episode 1.

Kyrie’s Beatrice
Later Kyrie sees "Beatrice" in the hallway walking up the stairs with Genji. Natsuhi finds Kyrie alone in the hallway. After this scene, Genji and "Beatrice" come in front of Kinzo's room but does not open the door due to the scorpion.

My thoughts:
Going by my theory that all scenes with "Beatrice" contains a lie (they should if she doesn’t exists), so both of these scenes contain one. Kyrie seeing Genji walking up the stairs is probably true due to Genji’s scene later. Since Kyrie was the only one who claims “Beatrice” looked like the person in the picture, if Kyrie was lying then this person could have been anyone. Nothing suggests that the “Beatrice” Kyrie saw was “Maria’s Beatrice” who Rosa saw. Another thing is if Kyrie was lying, then “Kyrie’s Beatrice” could have a group of people walking with Genji. Another possibility is Kyrie saw Natsuhi with Genji and said it was Beatrice cover up for her. However, if Kyrie was cover up for Natsuhi, then Natsuhi would have to act out this lie throughout the story which doesn’t seem right.

Solid Alibis…
Kinzo was playing chess with Nanjo
Genji was walking up the stairs with “Kyrie’s Beatrice”
Shannon was with the George, Jessica, and Battler in the guest house.
Gohda was preparing dinner.
Natsuhi saw Kyrie in the hallway.

Iffy Alibis…
Krauss, Eva, Hideyoshi, and Rudolf were locked in conversation, but anyone could leave the conversation freely just as Natsuhi, Kyrie, and Rosa did. But these four were in the room by the time Natsuhi and Kyrie joined them later. I do not think these four are likely.

Rosa was with Maria inside the house, but it isn’t clear exactly where they were…

Kanon - unknown
Kumasawa - unknown

Dinner Preparations

Shannon
．．．．．．並べられている皿の数を見る。

．．．．．．19組ある。
その数字は、毎年の親族会議で並べられる皿の数より１つ多かった。

That gave me a pause. Beatrice and Battler should be the new guests. There should be 2 more not 1. So every year there was prepared 18 meals when there should be only 17 people on the island.

Beatrice
Kanon delivers lunch to “Beatrice” in her room.
Shannon delivers her dinner later. It’s very likely that both Beatrice here are the same person and is the same Beatrice as the “Shannon’s Beatrice.” The bed was found later used and there was human warmth in the room, however, nothing points that the person who stayed in the room is the same person as “Shannon’s Beatrice.”

The family dinner is wrecked by the announcement of Beatrice “existing” on the island.
Kyrie does not mention anything until Rosa does first. Unlike the first episode, a letter isn’t read or announced here.

The scene kj1980 posted earlier happens. All the parents were there saying they accept Beatrice’s existence. A few things that gave me pause about that scene.

• Kyrie hesitated.
• Rosa was there accepting the witch’s existence but lives and refutes the witch’s existence later.
• The letter is unopened letter. I think it’s the letter Rosa received although I have nothing to support that. If it’s not, Rosa’s letter was never seen much like the last letter Natsuhi received.

kj1980 mentioned something interesting about the letters. I was thinking something similar along those lines, but the letter I thought Rudolf received was the key letter as Maria read a similar letter that was found in the church in Episode 1. I think the reason why the parents went to the church is because the letter Rosa showed them the key. In Episode 1, Rudolf could feel the key in the envelop and misunderstood what it meant thus he mentioned what he said to Battler in that Episode.

Spoiler for Oct. 5th, 1986:

Night 1 Murder
In Episode 1,
Krauss, Rudolf, Kyrie, Rosa, Shannon, and Gohda were killed in the gardening shed with their faces torn.

In Episode 2,
Krauss, Natsuhi, Eva, Hideyoshi, Rudolf, and Kyrie were killed elaborately in the church.

Beatrice tells Battler he should be thankful that she left their faces on this time as Battler accused Beatrice that the dead could have faked their deaths in Episode 1. Beatrice makes this sound like a response to his reaction in Episode 1 but I believe otherwise. Episode 2 is the way it should have happened, and the killer goofed up in Episode 1. We know the killer tried to kill Natsuhi in Episode 1 but couldn’t when the killer found that she was protected by the scorpion talisman.

Why did they end up in the church? From information obtain from Battler, the key possibly was taken from Maria and put back into her purse. The person who had the most opportunity to do so was Rosa. When all the parents were alone in the dinning room, Rosa opened the letter with the key and they all went to the church excepting something. Probably in Episode 1, Rudolf didn’t bring the key to the dinning. The killer didn’t except this, couldn’t get into the church which probably has some type of trap to kill them all. So instead, the killer waited until the group got smaller as people retired to bed.

Of those killed between these two episodes,
Krauss, Natsuhi, Rudolf, Kyrie, Eva, Hideyoshi, Shannon, and Gohda’s faces were shown on the bodies. Which will make Rosa, the only person whose face was never shown on a dead body. Is this to disguise her own death in Episode 1?

If “Maria’s Beatrice” was Natsuhi or Kyrie, Rosa could have taken the ring during this time since Rosa knows who gave her the letter.

Happy Halloween Maria

While the same mark appears (Solomon 7 Suns), there is a significant difference as Happy Halloween Maria is written on the door. Question is was this sentence made by the same person who put the sign up? The reason why it’s questionable is the preparation made at the table… This would have taken a considerable amount of time to prepare that table. This could have been a completely unrelated message. If Rosa was the killer, she would not have the time to do this. Same would go for Eva, Hideyoshi, George, Rudolf, Kyrie, Battler, and Maria.

That would leave us with: Kinzo, Krauss, Natsuhi, Jessica, Nanjo, Genji, Shannon, Kanon, Gohda, and Kumasawa. As this preparation could have been made the day before, it could have been any of them.

Another thought I had is the possibility that the gold bars were already in the church and none of the parents brought it there. If “Maria’s Beatrice” is unrelated to murders and really just wanted the family to solve the riddle, then the church was a key item in that mystery. The bars could have been put there by “Maria’s Beatrice” or they were always there which is why Kinzo did not want the family members to go into the church. The true killer may have left the bars there to see who would react perhaps?

Beatrice
生死は捨て置く。６人は確かに扉から入った

Did anyone notice this? Only 6 people entered through the door.

• If you include the killer that would make 7+ unless the killer is faking their death. (unlikely)
• Beatrice never specified which 6 people came through the door.
• Beatrice does not deny that more than 6 people were there and if they were more then 6, how they got in

Beatrice
礼拝堂の鍵は一本しか存在しない

礼拝堂の施錠は礼拝堂の鍵以外では開錠不可能

礼拝堂の扉は、施錠時には如何なる方法での出入りも拒む

６人は確かに“この正面扉”から入った

This doesn’t mean anything. Beatrice never mentions the door was locked to begin with. The someone had the key prior to this. If that person is the killer, the killer could have left the door open or changed the lock to something similar looking.

Beatrice
桜座は今朝、確かに真理亜の手提げの中から封筒を取り出し、そこから正真正銘の礼拝堂の鍵をて にいれたぞ。．．．ニセモノなどということはない。

ニセモノ is not red, huh? If my theory is right above, then the killer only had to lock the church once after the killer killed everybody.

Beatrice
妾が真理亜に預けた封筒の中身は、確かに礼拝堂の鍵だった

Battler
赤で復唱してもらうぜ、言えるもんなら言って見やがれ。“真理亜の手提げは、桜座叔母さんが封筒を取り出す まで、誰も触れることができなかった”。

Beatrice
．．．．．．拒否する。．．．理由は説明しない。

Battler
違うぜ。．．．．．．説明しないんじゃない。出来ないんだ。．．．．．．その手で、チェックメイトなんだろ ．．．？

Beatrice
．．．．．．．．．．．．．．．く．．．

Battler
．．．．．．．．．しかしッ！真理亜は手提げを完全な監視下に置けなかった！魔法なんか必要ない。人間に可 能な密室トリックだ！！

Beatrice
妾が真理亜に渡した封筒と、桜座が開封した封筒は同一のものであるぞ！

Battler
あぁあぁ、だめだぜ、全然だめだ。そんなの、もうどうでもいいことだろうが。

“真理亜が受け取った封筒の中の礼拝堂の鍵は、桜座叔母さんが開封するまで、一度も使用されていない”ッ！ ！

吼えるならば口にしろ、リザインだったな！　これできまりだぜ！！　これが真相だ。

So Maria had the key, someone took the key and used it, then put it back in her purse (?), and later Rosa took it out again to open the lock.

Prior to the dinner and after “Beatrice” gave Maria the key… Rosa was with Maria the entire time. She would not be able to go the church without Maria knowledge of her using the key until after the dinner. No one came in contact with Maria until the dinner. Thus the only time anyone could have used the key was after dinner. And if the key was taken prior to the dinner, Rosa was the only person who could have.

Assuming Rosa didn’t have the key…
The parents were together during the night. The kids were to together in the guest house. Shannon, Kanon, and Genji didn’t meet with the kids after the dinner until the next morning. Kumasawa brought them desserts. I don’t think it is clear whether Gohda delivered them dinner or not… George and Kumasawa definitely left the room one time in the night. Of those two, George came back to the room after meeting with Shannon. There’s no telling how long George was out there.

I cannot think of a reason for George to go to the church. A stretch would be to marry Shannon, but he wouldn’t have come to this conclusion until after he met with Shannon. George would have need another motive. Jessica, Battler, and Kumasawa could have used the key. But again there’s no motive.

If Rosa could have took the key and showed the other parents which would bring them all to the church. This makes the most sense regardless if she’s the killer or not.

Letter II

Episode 02, the letter Jessica finds in Beatrice’s room.
While Jessica believes the letter is specifically address to her, I do not. That letter could equally applicable to Battler or George.

Letter II
私がぬくぬくとここで、貴方が飛び込んでくるのを待ち呆けるとでも？
知的な夜に、粗暴なる貴方は似合わない。
こんな間抜けに育てた親はどんな顔？うん、見たよ、本当にそっくりな間抜け面。
今はお菓子の国でお腹いっぱい！

Seeing how this letter wasn’t used in Episode 1 and seeing how it was written, the killer intended to kill all the parents. The other thing that I found interesting was the pen. Why does a witch needs to write a letter with a pen? Why leave the pen next to the letter? The room was still warm so the killer might have been in a rush… Also why doesn’t Beatrice sign this letter like she does with the others?

Who was sleeping in this room?
Rosa, Genji, Shannon, Kanon, Kinzo, Nanjo, Gohda and Kumasawa do not have solid alibis in the morning. The game tells us: Kinzo was in his room, Genji went to wake up Rosa (in which guest room?), Shannon was in the dinning room where she finds the note, Nanjo was in the guest house (he could have sneaked in), Gohda was preparing breakfast, Kanon went to check the church, and no one knows where Kumasawa was.

Since the killer most likely wrote this note, Gohda and Shannon are unlikely as they are confirmed “sheep” in Episode 1. Kanon is also unlikely as he was killed later in this episode. I do not think it’s likely that Kinzo will leave his room (no one can confirm besides the POV from him waking up in his room). This would leave Rosa, Genji, Nanjo, and Kumasawa (discounting the 19th person). If Rosa wrote this, then Genji is highly likely to be a partner in crime.

Night 2 Murder

On the door is the Moon 1 symbol which gives us an impression that it’s a 密室殺人 (not sure how to translate that in English… closed-room murder?). That’s the only reason why I believe the killer put this mark here.

マスターキーは使用人たちがそれぞれ持つ一本のみ

Does that include Leon and Manon? Is there a possibility of two more master keys?

The sins…
Jessica is killed by 色欲のアスモデウス
Kanon is killed by 憤怒のサタン

This means the killer knew of their relationship. Shannon, George (via Shannon) and Kumasawa knew about this relationship.

Another thing to keep in mind.
In Episode 1, アスモデウス(lust) kills Eva (night 2, consistent with Jessica).
Kanon was again killed by サタン(wrath) but in Episode 1, this was the Night 4.
Unlike the previous episode, Kanon’s body is missing and never found dead, but we know he’s dead because of this: 嘉音はこの部屋で殺された which also tells us he died before the members came here.

Alibis:
Rosa, Nanjo, George, Battler, and Maria were at the church.
The bodies of Krauss, Natsuhi, Eva, Hideyoshi, Rudolf, and Kyrie as well.
Shannon and Genji were in Kinzo’s room, however, Rosa did leave briefly to get them.
Kumasawa and Gohda do not have solid alibis as Rosa pointed out.

隠し扉の類は一切ない。出入りはこの扉だけだ。扉の施錠は、
朱志香の鍵が一本と使用人たちが一本ずつもつマスターキーのみ。二階ではあるが、窓から出入りすることも可能だろう。しかし窓は内側から施錠されている。

I do find it interesting that Rosa is the one who finds Jessica’s key. She walks straight towards it without hesitation and no one else even realizes it was there until she grabs it in her hand. Maybe it was the lack of description, but it could be that Rosa made people think that Jessica’s keys were in this room to begin with, although this will be hard to pull off as she made everyone look around the room first. The other thing which is strange is while Genji said that key is mostly likely the key to Jessica’s room, it was Rosa who went outside the room to test it out and confirmed that it was. Should we trust Rosa’s word here?

Battler
続けて、復唱要求。“嘉音訓の死体は、この部屋にある”。

Beatrice
拒否する。復唱はできぬ。．．．なぜなら、死体は妾が魔法で消したからだ。

Battler
復唱要求。．．．．．．“最後の施錠は、マスターキーによるものである。”

Beatrice
これも拒否する。

The other thing that makes be wonder is they didn’t find more blood. According to Beatrice, Kanon was killed here (was Jessica?). Beatrice stabbed Satan in his chest which would have been bloody. The body was then carried out of the room without leaving blood (or at least no one found any). =/

It’s also strange that Rosa is quick to point out that what Kumasawa was doing in the morning is unknown, but doesn’t even to stop to think that Genji and Shannon may have come to Jessica’s room prior to going to Kinzo’s room. Jessica probably would have trusted either one of them enough to show her back as well.

Beatrice has mentions the window. Could Kanon’s body been thrown out there and then later the killer left out the door and locked the room?

Rosa
朱志香は背中を刺されてるの。．．．．．．はら、よく一般的に言うでしょう？背中を指された事件は顔見知り が犯人の可能性が高いって。部屋に気を許せないような人を招き入れて、背中を無防備に晒したりなんか、絶対 にしない。

．．．．．．嘉音くんが、朱志香ちゃんを殺した。

I wonder… There’s no confirmation that the pick was the cause of death. I’m also surprise no one found Jessica’s inhaler. I’m wondering if something was in the inhaler and she was knocked out and then was stabbed? This is again baseless speculation, but that inhaler and Jessica’s conditioning worsening has been mention many times in this scenario. I can’t help to think there’s something to it.

Sheep and the Wolves

Rosa locks herself, George, Battler and Maria in the living room.
Genji, Kumasawa, Shannon, and Gohda are sent away. Rosa whispers something in Nanjo’s ear and he goes with them. The servants go to the kitchen, hear some noise. Gohda opens the door to find Kanon. Was this really Kanon?

This scene was overly exaggerated.
The sequence of events:

• The servants were at the kitchen
• They hear some noise
• Genji grabs a knife, and Gohda opens the door to find Kanon.
• Nanjo said Kanon is still alive and they all leave to the other room.
• Gohda freaks out, and Shannon leaves.
• When Shannon comes back, “Kanon” kills Nanjo and Kumasawa.
• “Kanon” then disappears.
• They all leave and lock the door.

This is how Genji describes the event to Rosa. What isn’t told to her… “Kanon” tells them that Rosa is the killer. Shannon left as the other talked over how to deal with Rosa and her Winchester. What if, this whole sequence was a lie to free a few people from Rosa control of the situation?

I think they probably did find Kanon. When they did, the servants started plotting what to do about Rosa. Shannon went to grab something. Nanjo and Kumasawa agreed to be the ones “killed” (maybe Genji as well, but he refused to explain the third pick which missed him?). If this is so, Kanon’s, Nanjo’s, and Kumasawa’s bodies disappearing here can be explained.

Natsuhi’s Mirror…
George, Shannon, Genji and Gohda separate from Rosa, Battler, and Maria.
The servants explain what happen in the servants’ office to George.
Shannon tells George about the “mirror” and he replies that was going too far to break the mirror. George questions Shannon about the “spider web” and she explains she heard it from Kumasawa. Then the suggestion came to go get the mirror Natsuhi has, but they would need the key to her room to do so.

My thoughts:
Gohda knew about Natsuhi’s mirror?! That was a bit strange. Even if Gohda has great respect for Natsuhi, but him being a relatively new servant knowing about a very personal item of hers seems a bit strange.

Now, if there’s no magic involve what purpose does the mirror have?
It was important enough for George, Shannon, and Gohda to go get lengths to get.
It was important enough for the killer to come and kill them when they tried to get it.
Perhaps, it was something that can pinned/identify who the killer is?

Another thing I found strange is Genji still had the knife and he decided not to go with them.

The Church
They get in by breaking a window. For some strange reason, butterflies fly in and form a goat. They run from it, get into Natsuhi’s room then are killed.

There’re many things odd with this entire scene.
First, something scared the three to run from the church immediately. Again I don’t believe in any magic, so whatever was inside the church had to get in there somehow.

1. “It” was always there – unlikely. Faking the deaths in the church would be extremely difficult. Even if George lied about confirming his own parents’ death, if the others were truly killed in a similar fashion, it’ll be difficult to convince Battler/Jessica as they would have a visual reference to compare the deaths to. Battler checked his parents to be dead. Going by the same logic, even if Jessica didn’t check her parents’ death, just the visual comparison would make this unlikely.
   
2. “It” had the key. Possibly. Rosa had the key prior to this. If she dropped the key off some place when no one was looking (eg when she went to get the Winchester) the key could have changed hands.
   
   Rosa, Battler, and Maria are together.
   Krauss, Natsuhi, Eva, Hideoyoshi, Rudolf, Kyrie, Jessica, and Kanon are dead.
   
   That leaves us with Kinzo, Nanjo, Genji, and Kumasawa.
   If whatever was in the church got inside with the key, then Genji is unlikely. He wouldn’t be able to get inside without the others noticing him.
   
3. Beatrice never denies the possibility of a hidden passageway/door to the church. She only denies it for Jessica’s room and the servants’ office. Perhaps there is one? If so, Genji is just as suspicious as the others.

7th and 8th death
Before Rosa, Genji, Maria, and Battler go to Natsuhi’s room, Genji reports that he found Nanjo’s and Kumasawa’s bodies. They were both found together in the inside yard. Strangely, they were killed as the 7th and 8th death.
Strangely, they were killed by the same picks in the same order as Episode 1.
Nanjo was killed by Belphegor (sloth) as the 7th night.
Kumasawa was killed by Leviathan (envy) as the 8th night.
They are the last to be killed again (at least as far as the picks are concerned).
While both bodies have a gash around their necks, it is unknown whether that was the cause of death. The status of Genji’s knife is unknown at this point of the story. He was alone for around 3 hours as according to Genji that is when George left to get Natsuhi’s mirror. When Genji mentions that, they all go to Natsuhi’s room to check up on George. While Rosa was the first to check if Natsuhi’s door was locked, she made Battler open the door for her with the master key. The three were dead inside. The status of the mirror is unknown. Beatrice gives her 密室定義 ultimatum. Again the problem is the master keys. Beatrice says Rosa has all five master keys, but depending how you interpret Beatrice’s words, there could be seven keys (one for each servant) and Rosa only have five of them. Which five is unknown as the two keys picked up at the servants’ office could have been the extra two keys.

Death in Natsuhi’s room
Very odd. When Beatrice showed us what happened, Gohda was killed first, then Shanon, then George. The picks, however, tell a different story.
Shannon was killed on the 4th night by Mammon (greed)
Gohda was killed on the 5th night by Beelzebub (gluttony)
George was killed on the 6th night by Lucifer (pride)

Interestingly, Shannon was killed by the makeup stand, and Rosa got pissed at Battler for tampering with the scene of death (an excuse?). Another thing I find interesting is the Mammon pick which kills Shannon is the pick that kills “Kinzo’s charred body” in Episode 1. The status of Shannon’s body in that Episode at that time was unknown. Although her body is assumed to be in the shed but no one checked on the bodies after they locked the shed. Could the burnt body in Episode 1 be Shannon’s? Does Shannon have 6 toes? She was an orphan and possibly never received treatment to get it removed if she does...

Another thing that was odd. Genji said he did his rounds around the mansion. Why doesn’t he mention that he check Natsuhi’s room ~X minutes ago, but instead reports to Rosa, George left 2~3 hours ago? Did Genji go toward Natsuhi’s room later? He should have. He knew George, Shannon, and Gohda would be going there. Wouldn’t it be his duty to make sure things are safe after they left the room? To me this says Genji is covering up for someone. Either Genji saw no need to go to Natsuhi’s room or saw no need to mention that he did.

Letter IV
Rosa is the last person out of the room, so it’s very likely she’s the one who put the letter on the table where Battler was. This letter is also not signed by Beatrice.

If it wasn’t her, then it had to be Kinzo, or the plausible 19th person.

There’s very little else to go on from here. =/

Grand Finale
Battler gets drunk in the dinning room. Genji escorts him to Kinzo room where he finds Beatrice and Kinzo playing chess.

Rosa takes Maria to the church, grabs one of the gold bars and runs from something.

Deaths (Episode 1 vs Episode 2)

Episode 1

Night 1. Shannon, Gohda, Krauss, Rosa, Rudolf, and Kyrie

Night 2. アスモデウス (Asmodeus: Lust) kills Eva
Night 2. ベルゼブブ (Beelzebub: Gluttony) kills Hideyoshi
Night 4. マモン (Mammon: Greed) kills Kinzo? (Shannon?)
Night 5. サタン (Satan: Wrath) kills Kanon
Night 6. ルシファー (Lucifer: Pride) kills Genji
Night 7. ベルフェゴール (Belphegor: Sloth) kills Nanjo
Night 8. レヴィアタン (Leviathan: Envy) kills Kumasawa

Episode 2
Night 1. Krauss, Natsuhi Hideyoshi, Eva, Rudolf, and Kyrie

Night 2. アスモデウス (Asmodeus: Lust) kills Jessica
Night 5. ベルゼブブ (Beelzebub: Gluttony) kills Gohda
Night 4. マモン (Mammon: Greed) kills Shannon
Night 2. サタン (Satan: Wrath) kills Kanon
Night 6. ルシファー (Lucifer: Pride) kills George
Night 7. ベルフェゴール (Belphegor: Sloth) kills Nanjo
Night 8. レヴィアタン (Leviathan: Envy) kills Kumasawa

What I notice:
Only Beelzebub and Satan switched order.
Satan, Belphegor, and Leviathan (and Mammon?) killed the same people in both episodes.
Rosa, Kinzo, and Genji died in episode 1, survived (?) in episode 2, however, Rosa’s and Kinzo’s death cannot be confirmed. George and Jessica survived (?) in episode 1, killed in episode 2. Natsuhi is killed in both episodes.


And the killer is…?
While a 19th person is plausible, still there is no conclusive evidence there is one, and there is no incident presented yet that only a 19th person could do. So I’m going to rule out this possibility for now.

As suspicious as Rosa is in the first and second episode, she could not murdered George, Shannon, Gohda, Nanjo and Kumasawa. If she is involved somehow she would need a partner in her crime.

Krauss, Natsuhi, Eva, Hideyoshi, Rudolf, and Kyrie were confirmed dead so they could be ruled. From Night 2’s murder onward, the children (Battler, Maria, George, and Jessica) could not be involved. Kanon was dead from Night 2 on if we believe Beatrice’s red text. I think it’s safe to do so, otherwise it throws out nearly the entire scenario if Beatrice’s red text is a lie. That would leave us with Kinzo, Shannon, Nanjo, Genji, Gohda, and Kumasawa, however, in Episode 1 Shannon’s and Gohda’s death was confirmable on Night 1 so they are extremely unlikely involved in these murders. Kinzo’s death is unconfirmed in Episode 1 and his whereabouts are iffy (locked in his room) through the entirety of Episode 2. He has ample chance to commit all the murders. Genji also has no solid alibi throughout the entirety of Episode 2. However, since Shannon is believed to be a “sheep,” then her writing Kinzo’s will omits her, Genji, and Kinzo from Night 2’s murder. Rosa has no solid alibi for that murder (she went alone to get Genji and Shannon at Kinzo room, she also came back with the Winchester at this time), however, if she was to use Kanon and Jessica for Night 2’s death, then she would need to know about their relationship. There is no evidence pointing that she has this knowledge. Kumasawa and Nanjo have no alibi until their confirmed death (Night 8 & 9). I do wonder… both Kumasawa’s and Nanjo’s picks are on their legs which isn’t as fatal as the other locations the picks were stabbed. Also in both Episode 1 & 2 their death were confirmed more on the amount of blood around them. If it’s possible to fake the gash on their necks in this episode and they were able to fake their death (薬で仮死状態とか) and the fact their death is always listed last… I personally don’t want to think the picks are used in a lie but… I wonder…

My conclusion… there’s still insufficient information, but while I don’t know who the killers are, but I think these people can be counted as sheep:
Krauss, Natsuhi, Eva, Hideyoshi, Rudolf, Kyrie,
Battler, Jessica, Maria, Shannon, Kanon, and Gohda.

I’m not 100% sold on George. He has some suspicious moments that still need to be clear.
Rosa as suspicious as she is, besides Night 1, it’s very difficult to put blame on her. We don’t know if she has the knowledge to pick Jessica and Kanon as Night 2’s victim (maybe them being close in age was good enough for her…), but from Night 4’s death on she could not have killed anyone.

Kinzo and Kumasawa have nearly no alibi during any of the murders.
Nanjo and Genji could not preformed Night 2’s murder but were free to do the others.

Riddle
A few things make wonder…
The game says Beatrice is a witch who can kill one person an infinite amount of times.
If this is true, then couldn’t Beatrice just kill one person be sacrifice for all the nights in the riddle?

Beatrice continuously mentions true magic is love.
If love is true magic then the riddle could mean…
First night, the 6 people who need to be kill (their anger) are the parents.
The second night, two need to be separated (mentions nothing about killing. I think this might mean separate Kinzo from “Beatrice”).
Third night, think of (what) my name (means: love?)
Fourth night on, the riddle says 抉りて殺せis used. Maybe this means to hollow (empty/forget)? Empty/forget your head, your chest (heart?), your stomach (腹黒思い？), your knees and legs (your support… money?).
Once the witch (love) is reborn none of that will be needed?
Your journey will end and you’ll be in the golden land…

Beatrice
I’m not sure on this one, but I think there are multiple “Beatrice” in the story.
Maria’s, Shannon’s, Kyrie’s, Kinzo’s (x2), and the killer.

Kinzo’s has two Beatrice. One is the person he fell in love with many years ago.
The other is the one in the portrait who become a mythical legend on the island.

Maria’s Beatrice… I have a hunch it’s either Kyrie or Kumasawa (leaning more towards on Kyrie). Kyrie tends to be more sympathetic to Rosa then any other family member. Kyrie also has a young daughter which possibly draws her to Rosa and Maria. This is baseless speculation. But Kyrie’s subtle gestures throughout the game make me believe she has some interest in Rosa.

Shannon’s Beatrice… not sure, but Kumasawa or Genji seems the most suspicious here.

Kyrie’s Beatrice… By process of elimination, it’s most likely (Rosa with Maria), Kanon or Kumasawa. Out of these four Kumasawa seems the most suspicious.

The killer… don’t know.

Now are any of these the same person? I can’t be sure. I would like to think Maria’s Beatrice is the same person as the killer due to the seal, but the seal ring could have changed hands if Maria’s Beatrice was among the first six to be killed.

萌え moment for me
When Maria clasps her hands around Battler’s face saying it’s all right when Battler fell in utter despair giving in to the witch. I don’t know why. I don’t like Maria all too much, but I love that scene. I blame ico for his version of Maria that popped into my head during that scene.

[theacefrehley]

Finally finished it

I didn't think it to be that bad that red text
Some of them were really cheating but some others were just a saving of time that Battler would be thinking endlessly without Beatrice's help


Peroyasha
I'm envious of you
I'm so stupid I can't even create such large scales theories hehehe

1. About "Leon" (瑠音)
I think he/she is not mentioned a second time in this story
The ones mentioned on episode 1 were 眞音 (Manon) and 恋音 (Renon)

But I'll list some fact I think are interesting (I'm not on the side of the magic believers)

- Shannon's first meeting with Beatrice
1. Shannon had been humiliated by Eva
2. She had neglected her breakfeast
(…朝食を疎かにした紗音は、もう思考も希薄になり始めていた。)
3. Natsuhi scolded her and said she would not allow her to eat or take a rest until she finishes her job and report it to her.

Could it be that:

A Broken heart + hunger + humiliation = Beatrice's portrait talking ?

Well, it crumbles because Kanon also saw the same "Beatrice"

- That whole Rosa being possessed by an Evil Witch is very supicious. It only enforces that anyone could deceive Maria to play a part in the plot. And it would be for example that envelope that appeared out of nowhere in Kinzou's study on episode 1.

- That scene where the adults meet with beatrice at the sanctuary to me strogly points at a 19th person. Without a 19th person (not necessarily a witch), everything gets so difficult to understand.
Kyrie seems to be as skeptical and rational as Battler. She told about her meeting with Beatrice to Rudolf, Eva and Hideyoshi beforehand and seemed really puzzled about her. Another point to the existence of the 19th person.

- Those fighting scenes involving the superpowerful furniture are really mindboggling. I don't have the slightest idea what they mean. The scene with the fake Kanon at the servants room you could explain as a lie of the servants to plot something. I don't agree with that but it's not unreasonable. But what about Kanon fighting for Jessica and Shannon fighting for George? Only the readers know about that. The characters only see the result.

- Maybe the three golden bars at the sanctuary plus Rosa trying to take one at the epilogue are suggesting that this time Rosa was spared for not having a golden bar?

- Last chapter Battler was drunk. We can accept all that mess, including that congratulation ball, as a result of the alcohol.

- Lastly, a part of the tips that I thought to be interesting:

Rosa executed:
行方不明。

　黄金郷で、ようやく黄金より大切な自分の宝物を見つける。
　しかしそれは束の間のこと。
　馬鹿のせいで、彼女はせっかく見つけたそれを再び見失わなければならない。

　後は悪魔どもにばりばりかじられて、地獄行き。

Maria Executed

行方不明。

　黄金郷で、ママがまだ愛してくれていることを知れた。

　とりあえずは満足。

The interesting part is this:
Both have:

"黄金郷で"

"At the golden village/land"

Well
Maybe it's just bullshit but it may be a clue for what the heck is that golden village

In the end,
I think I'll go with the theory of the guy of Ep.1 thread.
There's a secret investigation team hired by someone (I'd strongly suspect Rosa or Krauss) to search for the gold and an "actress" to play the role of Beatrice and spread chaos (for what?) taking advantage of the riddle and the portraits of Beatrice of the Dotard Kinzou. Something like a Yamainu 2.0. And as pointed by kj1980, in the end the goat-heads dying only when shot in the head might be a hint for an armored vest
However, something goes very wrong (or not) in the middle of the operation and we have the massacre.

Heck...
Ryuukishi was serious when he challenged people to deny the witch until the end before releasing episode 1.

[Sterling01]

Originally Posted by theacefrehley

Finally finished it

Heck...
Ryuukishi was serious when he challenged people to deny the witch until the end before releasing episode 1.

Don't mess with Ryuukishi.

Though I'm sad it seems as if I'm the only one who belives that it's the work of the golden witch

Also I have a few comments about the music

First off, Worldend is Umineko's You.

Also I find it interresting that both Battler's and Beatrice's theme music have Dread in the title

Battler: Dread of the Grave
Beatrice: Red Dread

@ace: Since I started to translate Ep 2, I found out just how hard of job you had with Ep 1. You now have my upmost respect

[chronotrig]

There's a big problem with Battler's last scene. You can try to write it off as a hallucination or him being drunk (assuming we're viewing it from his point of view), but neither is actually possible. Ryukishi has written a lot of weird things, but they all have some explanation in the end.

There is no way Battler could have dreamed up Frederica. He could not have known what she looked like.

Although he might have some knowledge of her from the Higurashi novel, he still wouldn't know what Rika looked like, nor would he have any reason to think of her at that time. This also brings up a more interesting question. Frederica must have appeared in that last scene, and must have either been a real person or something with the appearance of a real person. We can guess from the ???? that she is the same Frederica from Higurashi. That means that even if the Umineko universe is not the same as the Higurashi one, the both exist in the same set of worlds that Frederica can travel to. If that is the case, then there must be some significance to the novel in the first chapter and the highlighted section the lyrics of tsuru pettan (though I hate to admit it.) This only makes sense if there are some major secrets from the previous games that are going to be unravelled.

The thing that confuses me most is that Beatrice said that Frederica had the power to make any event that was possible definitely happen. But if we look at the normal interpretation of the Higurashi games, each universe existed separately and Rika and Hanyuu only travelled between them. In other words, they didn't change any of them, but only found one of the rare ones in which it was possible to survive 六月. In other words, they should have been extremely powerful from their own point of view, but as useless as any other omniscient girl would be in the eyes of anyone that did not follow them every single time they jumped. Does Beatrice's comment mean that only the last world existed and that the multitude of カケラ were only "possibilities"?

This might also clear up the thing that confused me about the first series. It seemed that only in the last few iterations of Hinamizawa did anyone remember the past worlds clearly. In Tsumihoroboshi hen Rika admitted that she had never seen it before. In the very next chapter, almost everyone recalled clear memories from previous worlds. If Hanyuu and Rika were just transferring to different worlds without changing the histories of the previous ones, there is no reason that any world would be any more likely than any other to show these impossible memories.

[nagare]

Originally Posted by theacefrehley

Peroyasha
I'm envious of you
I'm so stupid I can't even create such large scales theories hehehe

I'm sure Ryukishi will make a fool out of me in the coming episodes. ^^;

1. About "Leon" (瑠音)
I think he/she is not mentioned a second time in this story
The ones mentioned on episode 1 were 眞音 (Manon) and 恋音 (Renon)

Ah ^^;
I forgot the kanji was different. Saw 瑠音 (Runon) thought 恋音 (Leon). opps.

A Broken heart + hunger + humiliation = Beatrice's portrait talking ?

lol

- That scene where the adults meet with beatrice at the sanctuary to me strogly points at a 19th person. Without a 19th person (not necessarily a witch), everything gets so difficult to understand.

I think adding a 19th person just makes anything possible. There might be others on the island. But there's really nothing but hearsay on that topic. I figured that the whole parents accepting Beatrice in the sanctuary (good tl) was them seeing the gold bars with with the wing symbol, accepting the fact that "Beatrice" exists because the gold does.

But what about Kanon fighting for Jessica and Shannon fighting for George? Only the readers know about that. The characters only see the result.

I was thinking that "Beatrice" wants us to believe there was a struggle in Jessica's room. The Shannon's, George's, and Gohda's death has me puzzled b/c the order doesn't match the picks.

Something like a Yamainu 2.0.

I found it funny that Hideyoshi mentioned 小此木食品.
I bet it's just a name recycled.
Plus instead of mountain dogs we have mountain goats now (山羊).
次回は、山猿か山姥かな？