2013-11-28, 12:07 | Link #33361 |
Dea ex Kakera
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sea of Fragments
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Spoiler for big image:
What's Will saying there in response when the goat tries to quote Knox 1 at him? I can more or less make out the meaning of the red, but the black's got too many kanji I don't know.
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2013-11-28, 12:21 | Link #33362 | |||||||
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Example for the boundary human being important: 1967年の六軒島の隠し屋敷に、人間としてのベアトリーチェさまが存在した
One of the few times where the word human instead of servant (使用人) is used in reference to a servant: 嘉音の名を名乗ることが出来るのは本人のみ! 異なる人間が名乗ることは出来ない! Perspective talking: 我こそは来訪者ッ、六軒島の18人目の人間ッ!!! そなたを迎えても、 17人だ。 Quote:
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- At least one pair of parents is bribed by the culprit before the game starts (likely Rudolph and Kyrie). - The servants are killed except for Genji who exists on as Ronove (Kumasawa tried reasoning with the culprit as shown in the battle with Virigilia, Gohda is a liability). - The culprit poses as dead Shannon in the parlor and uses the order of the locked rooms to change places and pose as dead Kanon in the church. - Eva solves the epitaph and gains the ring of headship from the culprit. - Rosa is lured to the garden by Maria. - Rosa is killed by the culprit and Maria (though the culprit loves her) needs to be silenced. - Kyrie, Rudolph, and Hideyoshi are shot down during an ambush in the mansion - George is lured outside by the culprit who to him is Shannon, but the true culprit kills him nonetheless - Natsuhi and Krauss get knocked out and strangled to death because they saw the culprit leaving with George - the culprit poses as a dead Shannon when the survivors arrive but leaves the 07151129 code for Eva who solved the epitaph - Nanjo is silenced because he helped lock the windows again after George left the guesthouse What is so non-human about this solution? Quote:
That's why I find "personalities" the wrong word, they are the ultimate form of giving "a way of life" form. My behavior at work and at home are completely different but that doesn't mean I regard them as being separate people. And concerning detective stories, what you wrote is nonsense. Read, And Then There Were None, A Murder is Announced, Hercule Poirot's Christmas (all Agatha Christie), The Hollow Man, The Burning Court (both John Dickson Carr), The Zodiac Murders (Shimada Souji), Murder in the Decagon Mansion, Labyrinth Mansion and Doll Mansion (Ayatsuji Yukito), The Inugamis (Yokomizo Seishi) and several other famous pieces of classical detective fiction. Identity tricks have been a staple since very early on. Quote:
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To which Dlanor replies with Knocks 1st : It is forbidden for the culprit to be anybody not mentioned in the early parts of the story. And Will's reply at the bottom is along the lines of, "I'm sorry, but this had already been stated since the very first game." At least that's what I understand out of it. Last edited by haguruma; 2013-11-28 at 12:51. |
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2013-11-28, 13:37 | Link #33363 | |||||||||
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I can make a Sakutarotrice theory and blame a human X, and it would be more revelant then shkanon. Quote:
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Battler rejected her existence, since she was a living dead anyway. Why did she say 18 in red, not 17? Red is truth. It's not a thought. It absolute truth. Last edited by jTiKey; 2013-11-28 at 13:47. |
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2013-11-28, 13:45 | Link #33364 |
Dea ex Kakera
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sea of Fragments
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Doesn't Erika actually say something about the 17/18 paradox in the EP8 manga during her duel with Battler? I don't remember the exact wording, but her solution was something along the lines of "I was the 17th by number of bodies, but the 18th by number of names".
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2013-11-28, 13:49 | Link #33365 | |
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2013-11-28, 14:09 | Link #33366 |
Eaten by goats
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Rokkenjima
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You have clearly not read many murder mysteries. That's handy, because they were written there, along with information about furniture, and mysteries which can only be solved using personality "death". ShKanon is a solution which people had already been able to guess long before Umineko Chiru even started. I believe some people had already guessed it by ep 2; you cannot claim that it's something which is impossible to work out using the early episodes. jTiKey, have you got any response to the following manga screenshot from ep 8? I don't believe you've addressed it. It's something which confirms ShKanon outright. |
2013-11-28, 14:24 | Link #33367 | ||
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Rosatrice does explane all well. "It's something which confirms ShKanon outright." I've answered this before too. Also, confirmation is nothing, if ShKanon can't explane Nanjo's death in a normal way. There are confirmation that Eva is the culprit. So what? A theory is right, if it doesn't contradict the red. Who cared, that is has a confirmation or two, if it cannot explane whodunnnit, howdunnit and whydunnit? |
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2013-11-28, 14:29 | Link #33368 | |
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Also Erika can have the title of an 18th person because she was considered to be the 18th person. The Red is still a perfect truth, it's context is just blurred. Hi, pleased to meet you! I am Furudo Erika, the detective!! I may be an uninvited guest, but please, welcome me!! I am the visitor, the 18th human on Rokkenjima!! If you look at her statements in context she's just naming off all of her titles. My blue truth works because multiple interpretations of a single truth are allowed. Also, if you interpret this red literally you violate Beatrice's Truth from Game 4. It's been shown that truth from game 4 carries over to game 5 with people recognizing Kinzo. Therefore Erika cannot in the most literal sense be the 18th human body on the island because the perfect red truth denies it. |
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2013-11-28, 14:35 | Link #33369 |
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Valkama, there was an addendium about Erika at the beggining of EP5.
She exists only after game 4. She doesn't influence games 1-4. How can she be a counted as a human, if she doesn't exist? Erika is the 18th human on the game boards she exists in. But she doesn't exist in Beato's games. Actually all this doesn't matter, cuz there is no name for the Nanjo murderer. :3 |
2013-11-28, 14:47 | Link #33370 | |
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The red truth is absolute!! A perfect truth, which no one can overturn no matter how hard they try!! Even the ending says no one can overturn it. Not even Lambda in the 5th game :3 Also regarding nanjo's murder: Maria: George onii-chan couldn't kill an adult. He could kill a kid though. Maria isn't the culprit so George simply can't kill adults. Battler states in EP8's manga that a truth like this applies to his character an thus is present across all games despite only first appearing in EP8. |
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2013-11-28, 14:50 | Link #33371 | |
Eaten by goats
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Rokkenjima
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Although I've read the past few pages, I didn't see any adequate explanation of your apparent claim that it is impossible to solve eps 1-4 with ShKanon in the early episodes. Especially given that we all know for a fact that people did solve those eps with ShKanon at the time.
I have also not seen you adequately address the issue of how you can explain away the outright confirmation of ShKanon in Chiru. If you do have arguments you believe can address those, would you consider re-stating them more clearly or at least quoting them? Quote:
You're free to do so, but you can't also claim that you are arguing logically and rationally and expect people to respect your arguments. Could you outline your Rosatrice theory for us, in your own words? Most of the Rosatrice theories we've seen here have been deeply flawed, so just saying "Rosatrice" isn't helpful. |
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2013-11-28, 15:14 | Link #33372 | |
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I came here only for the 3rd game. I got no who, how and why. Other things don't matter. Thank you for the confirmation. |
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2013-11-28, 15:36 | Link #33373 | ||
Eaten by goats
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Secondly, KnownNoMore's theory has been analysed and thoroughly discredited here multiple times before. By this point, it's dull. So, I wanted to know whether your theory was any different, and to give you the opportunity to outline and defend your theory on your own terms. Rather than saying "This other guy's long, inaccessible theory is mine and is perfect, go and look at that" you could outline the theory as you see it and then defend it using your own skill. That way, we would know which parts of the theory you consider essential, and you could discuss and defend the theory. Just pointing to somebody else's theory in this curcumstance is not so conducive to discussion. For example, you appear to take the position that Rosatrice theory has a perfect who, how, and whydunnit. But you have not explained why you think that, only pointed to KnM. ...Wait, you're here only to talk about the third game? This is the spoilers, theories and interpretation thread, not the ep 3 thread. If you want to talk only about things which are mentioned up to ep 3, denying the existence of the further games in any way, this is the thread you want: http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=68453 If, however, you want to argue in a way that does not pretend that facts that you don't like exist, stopping engaging in the "lalalala I can't hear you, who cares about the facts" school of argument when people remind you of them, you could stay in this thread. But that's entirely up to you. |
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2013-11-28, 15:50 | Link #33374 | |||
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Anyway, thank you for your attention. |
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2013-11-28, 15:52 | Link #33375 | |
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Arguing with your types is horrible because its literally arguing with irrational actors. Reason doesn't work so whats the point of arguing in the first place? e-I'm pretty sure Renall posted an in depth summary of the thing knownomorers have to answer before the theory holds any water. I'll see if I can find it. |
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2013-11-28, 16:07 | Link #33377 |
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Join Date: Jan 2012
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Why are you still trying to argue with him? Report him for flame-baiting and stop that pointless discussion that only goes in circles. There is absolutely no rational reason to continue this discussion as you will absolutely never be able to change his opinion, because he only tries to get attention and most likely does not even really have an opinion.
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2013-11-28, 16:08 | Link #33378 | |
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Found Renall's post about the rosatrice theories. Knock yourself out kid:
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2013-11-28, 16:19 | Link #33379 |
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Well jTiKey if all you want is a name I'd just say Beatrice is the killer of Dr. Nanjo :P
According to Battler there are two types of Red Truth, those that apply to individual games and those that apply to every game. A characters trait would be something that exists throughout all games like Georges ability to kill adults. In the 8th game Bern said the Purple has the power of red in the hands of someone who isn't the culprit. Most purple only applies to the 8th game but a few purples talk about character traits. Last edited by Valkama; 2013-11-28 at 16:27. Reason: Extra response |
2013-11-28, 16:36 | Link #33380 | ||
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