2013-04-21, 06:23 | Link #27821 | |
Sensei, aishite imasu
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Hong Kong Shatterdome
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Quote:
Like it or not, monastic institutions did help create a surplus of learned men who for lack of a better word, weren't really engaged in anything all that conventionally useful. The thing is, this also gave you a body of people who could preserve knowledge, do rudimentary research within the fields of natural philosophy, along with having the network of communication between other monastic/religious groups to transmit the information on a small scale. Maybe what they did seems pretty inefficient from our eyes, and it didn't jumpstart the scientific revolution as much as the printing press did, but I don't think it's very historically accurate to say that religious institutions did NOTHING to preserve/advance science.
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Last edited by Roger Rambo; 2013-04-21 at 06:47. |
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2013-04-21, 07:50 | Link #27822 | |
Logician and Romantic
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 43
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Did the institutions advanced science? Yes. Were the institutions the reason scientific advancements were possible? NO. The plain fact is that any science not affiliated with the Church was crushed, burned, and not allowed to be published. You give the religious institutions credit because you don't see anyone else doing science; I say they don't deserve the credit because everyone else who want to do science outside the institutions were KILLED. And their books banned. If I ban all non-Asians from practising medicine, does that mean Asians get exclusive credit for healing people?
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2013-04-21, 08:12 | Link #27823 |
Sensei, aishite imasu
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Hong Kong Shatterdome
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Prior to the modern era, haven't MOST societies limited which parts of their population were allowed to engage in philosophy/science? Or at least tried to limit who could do such things to specific institutions? I mean, look at India. They had a strict cast system that barred huge portions of their population for engaging in certain activities. Yet they made many advances in mathematics. Under your logic, the Indian mathematicians don't deserve any credit, because them being the innovators was only based on keeping so much of the population suppressed. Or what about in China? Do you think that anybody outside of the Imperial examination system was allowed to do science? You don't think they tried to maintain a monopoly on who could do these things? What you're saying makes sense with modern conceptions of personal liberty and freedom of ideas. It doesn't make sense when you try to apply it to the past, and realize that most ancient societies were highly restrictive compared to the modern era.
I'm not quite comfortable with the standard you're using to judge the past, because it seems to have this judgmental air to it that seems to insinuate that every group doing science prior to the modern era were just a bunch of hacks slowing down progress.
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2013-04-21, 08:33 | Link #27824 | |
Logician and Romantic
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 43
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I give credit to scientists. But I can't give the Church any credit because we KNOW they hindered science intentionally. And now they even like to pretended they didn't do that, that we had to thank them for having Christian scientists. Such audacity.
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2013-04-21, 09:07 | Link #27825 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: قلوب المؤمنين
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Quote:
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2013-04-21, 12:19 | Link #27828 | |
Logician and Romantic
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Within my mind
Age: 43
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Quote:
I am just used to the mainstream Asian countries all having old literature as a part of the curriculum as a matter of course. You are saying people in Turkey weren't taught old Turkish?
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2013-04-21, 13:54 | Link #27830 |
Gamilas Falls
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Republic of California
Age: 46
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We had Spanish or French as foreign language electives. English was a four year course in high school. Mostly about literature and how to write properly by that point rather than how to speak it. The closest we'd get to Old English was Shakespeare.
And because the PC was on the rise in the 1990s, we mostly stopped writing in English and started typing in English. I stopped writing in cursive when I got to High School because most teachers wanted our essays on computer.
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2013-04-21, 16:01 | Link #27832 | |
NYAAAAHAAANNNNN~
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 35
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Well we were taught cursive in Primary school as penmanship (which I continuously score zero because I can't follow such patterns without someone guiding my hand), and when I reached high school, the teachers went on a "strike" and refuse to mark any essays in "unintelligible writing".
Victims were mostly cursive writers, and some parents complained that it is "cursive" and thus is "normal"; the English Department's Literature teachers hit back with "Arabic is not the lingua franca". Even the school inspectors who came down was rolling over in laughter amongst themselves until a deal was reached - the students will be given the option to submit their work in typeouts, but no negotiation will be reached on their behalf if the Cambridge Assessment Board refuses to mark their papers during their 'A's. Regardless, one of my GP teachers made a fantastic statement, Quote:
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2013-04-21, 18:41 | Link #27835 | |
=^^=
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: 42° 10' N (Latitude) 87° 33' W (Longitude)
Age: 45
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Yea, the general practice of writing cursive is going away -- but -- good penmanship still needs to be taught.
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2013-04-21, 19:03 | Link #27838 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
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Watchout! Predominantly-liberal, Northeast, Media Establishment (a.k.a. 'Mainstream' national press)
Look who's set to even the tone in the OP/ED page and bring refreshing, XXI century ideas at the national level ~ In a move that could radically change the meaning of mainstream media, the Koch brothers, the libertarian leaning billionaires and industrial giants are contemplating purchasing the Tribune Company newspapers. A purchase of this magnitude by the biggest financiers of libertarian causes would forever change the meme of mainstream media bias. |
2013-04-21, 20:09 | Link #27840 | |
大巧不工
Join Date: Dec 2003
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Quote:
I can write a lot faster in cursive than print, but the problem is that I have a lot of trouble reading my own writing. This has been a personal dilemma in my university days when I have to take notes quickly, while being able to understand wtf I wrote in class effectively (I am bad at digesting a new concept+writing at the same time). So its a trade off of: Being able to write 20% faster vs spending 25% more time every time I go through my notes. Over time the reading part won out. I would love to be a student in today's classroom, you can probably just attach a keyboard to your smartphone and type, then take pictures of the blackboard if necessary (or simply rely on pictures of the blackboard). Not having to take notes imo makes learning during class a lot more efficient as you have a lot more time to follow/catch up to any new concepts thrown at you. Some professors follow their lecture notes well, but most of the time they still diverge as those lecture notes are often outdated. Hell, I would love HD recording of all lectures... it will make reviewing so much easier. Everyone have had those morning in which they are still half asleep and just cannot understand what is going on, yes? |
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