2013-04-18, 16:47 | Link #161 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
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First off, one of her key defining characteristics is her height. She is abnormally tall, and her heels + tall hair makes her seem like a giant. Generally men are emasculated by tall woman, which is why most men go for woman shorter than themselves and short men often have issues with their height. Her sexual poses and outfits are definitely a 'negative' in the sense that it is playing to the standard of objectifying women so common in video games. However, sexual confidence and empowerment is a staple feminist motto and the way Bayonetta is written fits that quite well. So from the marketing perspective there's definitely the whole male gaze and objectification thing going on, but from the writing perspective Bayonetta is fully aware of her own sexuality and does it not for any man, but for herself. Bayonetta is also not defined by her relationship with a male love interest. Her two strongest relationships in the game are with her past self and with Jeanne. With her past self the game explores her feelings of motherhood with is a huge contrast with how she was living her life before as a carefree independent person tied down to no one. Her relationship with Jeanne is one of rivalry as well as friendship and female camaraderie, something that you rarely see in a lot of fiction that's not aimed specifically at women. In fact, one of the biggest criticism of many Urban Fantasy fiction with female protagonists is that the female protagonist's relationship are all with men, and there are no other strong female characters in the story for the female lead to develop any relations with. |
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2013-04-18, 16:47 | Link #162 |
blinded by blood
Author
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Yeah, and I get it--Bayonetta was intended to be a female power fantasy. But it's a generalized one--just as much as the "wall o' muscle" male character in action games tends to be the generalized male power fantasy.
I don't like either of these fantasies, neither one appeals to me on any level outside of parody. I've never been a big fan of over-the-top, overpowered superheroic characters. I prefer the everywoman (or everyman, I'm not sexist in the other direction) that's thrust into an impossible situation and/or granted impossible powers and capabilities. They resonate more strongly with me. Also, more "ordinary" female characters resonate more strongly with me personally. A goddess of sex like Bayonetta takes sexiness so far it wraps around and becomes grotesque. I'd much prefer Alyx Vance, Lightning, Liara T'Soni, Jade, Aya Brea (especially in PE2), Yunica Tovah, Estelle Bright and Heather Morris. Not speaking for other women, but I don't want this at all. In fact, this is a strong reason why I love the "Badass Adorable" female characters. I think it's entirely possible to wear a skirt and look cute and still kick prodigious amounts of ass.
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Last edited by synaesthetic; 2013-04-18 at 16:58. |
2013-04-18, 16:51 | Link #163 | |
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Join Date: Apr 2011
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It feels like it's saying: ''Okay, we'll make her pretty cool, but uh don't worry! She still wants to learn how to cook for you, so uh, don't change the channel or anything!'' I'm not saying it can't be done right, but every time I see it it's pretty disappointing, in the manga Freezing it has a nice setting and the females generally appear to be in a much tougher position than normal, then the main heroine Bridget is easily made into a wet dream by being stripped enough by fanservice, but pure enough to be all ''I'm afraid to touch men! I'm so virgin teehee!'' only to get over it around the main character, to me that's like saying ''Don't worry, she's independant and strong, but she's NOT a whore, we won't give her the type of personality where she'd talk to other guys and make you jealous!'' Just because she can win in a few fights doesn't mean she has a strong and bright personality at all. But it's hard to explain what I really like to see, and I don't expect many to actually share that idea, even girls often think it's a bad thing, but I am pretty sick of seeing it over and over again, every time I look for a manga, anime, or game with a strong female in it it falls into these tame tropes unless it's a female-oriented game and even then that's rare, and when a female character really is awesome in that way, the main male lead(or others) have to put her down for being that way, or in the case of a harem there will be a boring girl who competes with her who is flatter than a piece of paper, yet is still portrayed to be a seriously worthwhile choice (Siesta to Louise in Zero no Tsukaima, TERRIBLE example but I think it might help explain what I'm talking about.). What she's wearing is entirely irrelevant, and if she has a cute personality that's fine, I don't really think I can actually explain it to be honest. |
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2013-04-18, 17:31 | Link #168 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
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I kind of went off on a tangent, and by wanting ''tough'' females I don't mean ''manly'', having girly traits and feminine ways aren't really the problem, it's the traits that reveal themselves to us as if they're made to make us see some hidden weakness in them that makes us like them more, I don't know. |
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2013-04-18, 17:45 | Link #169 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
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Definitely better struck than with Lightning. To be fair, Beatrix was a side character, not a lead, and she received just about as much development as you might expect for a side character. On the other hand, unfortunately you might say the same thing about Lightning, a protagonist |
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2013-04-18, 18:56 | Link #170 | |
Master of Coin
Join Date: Mar 2008
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Also, Zero No Tsukiaima isn't even aiming close to a female audience, it is pretty much a male version of twilight or something. As a former translator of the LN, I think one of the chapters the author even jested in the afterwords "There probably isn't any girls reading this anyway" Perhaps we could look at CLAMP's works, in Card Captor Sakura, it was Sakura in the lead and Lee was downright useless, but in the anime Lee was given a more stronger role, and later in Tubasa the lead role. Because I think in the end of the day, there just isn't quite that large of female demographics for action heroines, and probably the same for the gaming industry as a whole. If you "super power" the female characters to the point the men are reduced to "being saved" (not even support) role, then there would be a very small group of people who would actually play the game. (Heck, I don't think even girls are into saving the prince motiff" |
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2013-04-18, 19:07 | Link #171 |
大巧不工
Join Date: Dec 2003
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The new forum banner has a pink background instead of the neutral greenish-turquoise, forum is now female-centric? (lol)
Not every guy likes to see women with overly large breasts (DFC is a status symbol!), or women fighting each other as piece of their clothes fall off. |
2013-04-18, 19:30 | Link #172 |
Master of Coin
Join Date: Mar 2008
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So to finally summarize. If a video game/anime attract guys, then it must not be aimed for girls? It seem OP (and some of those feminist critics) operate on a binary world, if it is for men, women must hate it. If it is for women, men must dislike it. If that is the case, then unless demographics radically change in the next 20 years, developers will always aim for the men on the better side of caution.
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2013-04-18, 19:36 | Link #174 |
Hen-Tie
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Hen-Tie pen
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If you thought Bayonetta is bad enough in term of sexualization, Catherine(the C one) is even worse. Her character is made of 99% pure male fantasy.
I think this is one of the many reasons why women don't play video games. |
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