Gundam Seed/Seed Destiny General Discussion Thread

[weirdguy]

Originally Posted by Yesman

What manga and what chapter?

Mangas aren't canon, as well.

Alright. With it being Durandal, I got it from the wiki. But even so, like Monster said, Rau thought that Kira was dead. In addition, I went to read chapter 5 of X Astray, and the person who told Canard about Kira had no features that resembled Rau at all.

[Washu-Chan]

Originally Posted by monster

I don't think that fits either as Lacus was content with staying out of the spotlight.

That's until the tail end of Destiny.

As it stands, Lacus is currently the PLANT mediator, and it's unknown if she joins the PLANT Council, or if she becomes the PLANT Chairwoman.

And no, SRWUX doesn't count.

As for Lacus having a personality cult... we don't know what makes Lacus what she is (i.e., her character, etc.).

We know what made Kira, Shinn, Athrun, Cagalli, Rau, Durandal, and Meer who they are in the show. Out of the key characters, Lacus has the least amount of backstory, likely due to Fukuda saying that only he and Morosawa know Lacus's character. I think that they're trying to keep her origins mysterious in nature (think pre-House of M Wolverine, or the Joker in "Batman: The Killing Joke").

[Mad Pierrot]

Originally Posted by Washu-Chan

That's until the tail end of Destiny.

As it stands, Lacus is currently the PLANT mediator, and it's unknown if she joins the PLANT Council, or if she becomes the PLANT Chairwoman.

You know. I wonder if the Chairman/woman position is cursed considering what happened to the two previous guys.

[monster]

Originally Posted by Washu-Chan

That's until the tail end of Destiny.

As it stands, Lacus is currently the PLANT mediator, and it's unknown if she joins the PLANT Council, or if she becomes the PLANT Chairwoman.

And no, SRWUX doesn't count.

As for Lacus having a personality cult... we don't know what makes Lacus what she is (i.e., her character, etc.).

We know what made Kira, Shinn, Athrun, Cagalli, Rau, Durandal, and Meer who they are in the show. Out of the key characters, Lacus has the least amount of backstory, likely due to Fukuda saying that only he and Morosawa know Lacus's character. I think that they're trying to keep her origins mysterious in nature (think pre-House of M Wolverine, or the Joker in "Batman: The Killing Joke").

What I meant by not fitting is that a cult of personality tries to present an idealized version of him/herself to the public via media/propaganda. Lacus barely even talks about herself. Simply being a leader or in the spotlight does not make one a cult of personality.

Originally Posted by amaterasu4

You know. I wonder if the Chairman/woman position is cursed considering what happened to the two previous guys.

It's notable that all three Chairpersons that died were men. And women were the ones seemingly in power briefly after the end of each war.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by weirdguy

Alright. With it being Durandal, I got it from the wiki.

Heh. I knew it.

Originally Posted by weirdguy

In addition, I went to read chapter 5 of X Astray, and the person who told Canard about Kira had no features that resembled Rau at all.

I wouldn't say that with absolute conviction as the mangaka indeed gave us subtle hints of him being Rau in disguise. Outside of him being brunette, he has wavy hair like Rau, he wear shades like Rau when he's not wearing a mask, he was interested in Canard's idea of "revenge to the world" like Rau, and his mannerism even resemble Rau. But like I said, those are subtle hints, not solid evidence. But you still can't totally brush off his similarity to Rau, continuity error aside.

[n0m@n]

Lacus sure is a mysterious girl.
She is among my Top 5 favourite heroines of Gundam series(though Tifa and Aina are far above her), but she's also among my Top 5 Worst made character of Gundam series...

[Washu-Chan]

Originally Posted by monster

It's notable that all three Chairpersons that died were men. And women were the ones seemingly in power briefly after the end of each war.

I'm guessing that Yzak's mother served as PLANT Chairwoman briefly in-between Patrick Zala and Durandal?

[monster]

Originally Posted by Washu-Chan

I'm guessing that Yzak's mother served as PLANT Chairwoman briefly in-between Patrick Zala and Durandal?

Yzak's mother was arrested, along with other Zala supporters. It was Canaver who was the interim chairperson.

[Kurohane]

Originally Posted by Deadpool2000

Don't get me wrong, I have no idea of them reconciling. I'm just pointing out that, from that conversation, it sounds like they DID break up for at least some time.

Idea?

Anyway, I understand that as well. If you read between the lines, you definitely get that conclusion.

[Rising Dragon]

Originally Posted by Deadpool2000

Well, things aren't so simple.

Even ignoring the fact that Lacus isn't really Supreme Commander, and it's likely the woman taking pictures and shaking hands with Cagalli, there is plenty of other options.

There are a LOT of powerful organizations with no leadership. AF and LOGOS most notably. Were one person to wiggle his way into that power vacuum... Eurasia is also both in shambles AND largely sympathetic towards Durandal.

It would not take a lot to come up with a new conflict. Just humans being humans.

Well, that's just it. Even if she's not the de-facto leader, the PLANT Supreme Council would be daft not to listen to Lacus and she'd very likely be more than enough to prevent PLANT from entering any large-scale conflict. And she sure as hell wouldn't be the one to start one with some shady plan of her own.

LOGOS isn't a powerful organization with no leadership. Those members that were taken out WERE LOGOS, and LOGOS is gone. AF, sure, but without LOGOS it's unlikely that Blue Cosmos would get into leadership again as LOGOS was the one that backed them financially. Partial to Durandal or not, Eurasia IS in shambles like you said, so they're also not in any position to start a conflict.

And from what I've read and researched, 'bout the only other large-scale organization that could start any conflict is the Junk Guild, which really isn't interested in starting any conflict. The Sahaku family might, but with Ghina dead, I don't think that'd happen any time soon. And all the other factions were either too small to start global shit or dependent on one of the big-name factions, like the Atlantic Federation or ZAFT.

I mean, yeah, you could still come up with a plot. But it'd feel like a major asspull at this rate, and I think many people would find it ludicrous for ANOTHER super-evil shadow organization with global connections and power to arise after LOGOS.

[Blazer-X]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

Well, that's just it. Even if she's not the de-facto leader, the PLANT Supreme Council would be daft not to listen to Lacus and she'd very likely be more than enough to prevent PLANT from entering any large-scale conflict. And she sure as hell wouldn't be the one to start one with some shady plan of her own.

LOGOS isn't a powerful organization with no leadership. Those members that were taken out WERE LOGOS, and LOGOS is gone. AF, sure, but without LOGOS it's unlikely that Blue Cosmos would get into leadership again as LOGOS was the one that backed them financially. Partial to Durandal or not, Eurasia IS in shambles like you said, so they're also not in any position to start a conflict.

And from what I've read and researched, 'bout the only other large-scale organization that could start any conflict is the Junk Guild, which really isn't interested in starting any conflict. The Sahaku family might, but with Ghina dead, I don't think that'd happen any time soon. And all the other factions were either too small to start global shit or dependent on one of the big-name factions, like the Atlantic Federation or ZAFT.

I mean, yeah, you could still come up with a plot. But it'd feel like a major asspull at this rate, and I think many people would find it ludicrous for ANOTHER super-evil shadow organization with global connections and power to arise after LOGOS.

Well, if they end up doing a Movie or OVA, remember, it wouldn't take a huge-scale war again. Just some small faction with "secretly developed prototypes" with dangerous ideas to stir something up. It'd only be about as much of an asspull as Mariemaia's army in Endless Waltz.

[weirdguy]

Originally Posted by Blazer-X

Well, if they end up doing a Movie or OVA, remember, it wouldn't take a huge-scale war again. Just some small faction with "secretly developed prototypes" with dangerous ideas to stir something up. It'd only be about as much of an asspull as Mariemaia's army in Endless Waltz.

Wan't that like the same for 00's movie too? I have forgotten everything about it so I'm not that clear. Of all things, they used aliens for the conflict, which shouldn't be in Gundam. Macross handled them nicely. I felt that the story should have just stopped at the end of the series with that special edition ending thing. Of course, I liked the message they sent at the end though. Honestly, Wing's movie was pretty much horrible.

Of course, disregarding the side stories and their conflict, I'm sure there's still conflict. I mean, their mission is to "replant the flowers" after all, and that hasn't been achieved yet after the end of the series. They even have the plot line for SEED's movie done. It just have been on hiatus till now.

[monster]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

Eurasia IS in shambles like you said, so they're also not in any position to start a conflict.

Note that a conflict doesn't have to be on a global scale. There is unrest within Eurasia, which is a good situation for a conflict to start.

[Rising Dragon]

UC, Wing, and 00's movies still had a huge problem to deal with, like Axis falling, or Mariemaia holding the planet and its unified government hostage, or aliens that could very well assimilate the entire planet.

Currently, though, SEED's social climate is at its best and stablest with the huge instigators of its problems (Rau, Zala, Durandal, Azrael, and Djibril/LOGOS) all dead and level heads like Cagalli and Lacus in control of two thirds of the major powers. Any large-scale problem is very, very unlikely at this point, even if the Natural/Coordinator issues in no way truly resolved.

[quagmire]

Originally Posted by weirdguy

Wan't that like the same for 00's movie too? I have forgotten everything about it so I'm not that clear. Of all things, they used aliens for the conflict, which shouldn't be in Gundam. Macross handled them nicely. I felt that the story should have just stopped at the end of the series with that special edition ending thing. Of course, I liked the message they sent at the end though. Honestly, Wing's movie was pretty much horrible.

Aliens for 00 was not an asspull. They were hinting at it during the first and second season.

For a conflict for a Seed movie, the group from Mars is an obvious source of conflict. Sort of like AGE....

[Rising Dragon]

SEED's Mars people just want to be left alone from the conflicts, though, don't they?

[CBredbeard]

Originally Posted by quagmire

Aliens for 00 was not an asspull. They were hinting at it during the first and second season.

For a conflict for a Seed movie, the group from Mars is an obvious source of conflict. Sort of like AGE....

It was very stupid though. Basically everything CB did was based entirely on a hypothetical scenario where humanity encountered a hostile alien life-form that actually posed a threat. Literally a one in a million chance and that's pretty much why everything that took place happened in the series.

It was an ass-pull in that if aliens didn't show up, everyone would have looked very stupid for doing such horrible things for practically no reason.

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

SEED's Mars people just want to be left alone from the conflicts, though, don't they?

Yeah, they're pretty cool.

[Rising Dragon]

No, CB's--or rather, Aeolia Schenberg's plan--was to eliminate war. Schenberg wanted war obliterated, especially if alien life is encountered, but primarily it was to eliminate war. CB was just goddamn lucky they managed to get a tenuous peace started in time for the encounter with the ELS.

[CBredbeard]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

No, CB's--or rather, Aeolia Schenberg's plan--was to eliminate war. Schenberg wanted war obliterated, especially if alien life is encountered, but primarily it was to eliminate war. CB was just goddamn lucky they managed to get a tenuous peace started in time for the encounter with the ELS.

They were damn luck for a lot of reasons lol I've never seen so much author fiat.

[quagmire]

Originally Posted by Rising Dragon

SEED's Mars people just want to be left alone from the conflicts, though, don't they?

Ah ok. I don't follow the Manga side that closely. I was just aware there was Mars people in CE

Originally Posted by CBredbeard

It was very stupid though. Basically everything CB did was based entirely on a hypothetical scenario where humanity encountered a hostile alien life-form that actually posed a threat. Literally a one in a million chance and that's pretty much why everything that took place happened in the series.

It was an ass-pull in that if aliens didn't show up, everyone would have looked very stupid for doing such horrible things for practically no reason.

I give it a pass because A) It's a freaking TV show. Here you had a guy that discovered the GN Particle, came up with the basic construct of the GN Drive, Trans Am, and the Twin Drive System. Predicted the TDS would create innovators, etc. He did all of this 200 years before CB's debut in our era. B) The aliens was the end game for 00's plot line.

I don't consider aliens to be an asspull because it was alluded to during the series. EW's plot is an asspull because the series never hinted towards the changing to Operation Meteor.....

Anyway, that is as far off topic I will go since this is the Seed/Destiny thread.