[Manga] Chapter 337 Discussion

[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by 0TaKu0

, I think we will get what we want, Shikamaru will kill Hidan or at least disable him as "revenge" for Asuma, while Naruto and Co. kill Kakuzu. That way everyone is happy.

....Yeah that works. Let's hope it turns out that way

Originally Posted by Yoshie

do u guy think jiraya kann do that special rasengan 2?
speaking of witch , what element is jiraya?

His element is unknown, but he can't perform the new Rasengan.

[Luminion Lancer]

-You know I was starting to question the power of the new Rasengan. I mean, all it did was stop Kakuzu's attack and that was it, or so I thought. Notice how Kakuzu used both the Katon and Fuuton hearts together at once. What does that tell you? That's right, it means he was strenghtening the Katon jutsu with the Fuuton jutsu. Considering this I believe that the Yamato/Naruto combo jutsu wasn't specifically designed to attack, but rather defend. If the primary function of the Hurricane Maelstrom was to defend then it is plausible to believe that the attacking power of the Wind Rasengan was lowered greatly and was instead used as a support to give the Suiton Jutsu the necessary shape and defending power. Still, that would indicate that Naruto has the "know how" when it comes to designating the power output of his jutsu, something that seems a little too advanced for him. Then again we are talking about the #1 Ninja at surprising people.

[lainex9]

i thought jiraya was earth and fire.

anyways where did sai come from? i thought he died.

[Mr. Johnny 5]

Originally Posted by chuckcsf

Remember when Naruto was working on Rasengan when they were looking for Tsunade... Naruto made swirl marks on the tree with his imperfected Rasengan. Maybe Naruto made something like that but converted his chakra to wind...

So in other words...you think it still isnt complete?

Such a combo technique just to balance his attack out...dont you think that's rather...lame. He trained in theory for weeks for this jutsu and did something that no one could.

Yet no one is suprised by its power or difficulty.

[Nanatsu]

I think you guys are being too hard on Naruto's technique here. This isn't some low genin attack Kakuzu is using. He's mixing two high power fire and wind jutsus which ,as we already know, amplifies the power greatly. It's like they are fighting two shinobi in one when he combines two jutsu like that. Kakuzu has already demonstrated that he has cunning and intelligence. But you guys are failing to see that he has some really potent raw power.

I don't see any reason why an Akatsuki shouldn't be able to match the new Wind Rasengan in power. And that's all it is really. Other Shinobi can't use two jutsu at once on their own. They need a partner. Saying that Yamamoto and Naruto each have enough power to match the strongest attack of an Akatsuki is saying a lot. There isn't a need for Naruto to completely crush anything that moves with one attack. That would make him as cheesy as MS is right now. He just needs to have a technique comparable in power to other Akatsuki that he can use at the right time to actually win. And I suspect that we haven't really seen all there is to offer from Wind Rasengan.

For the record, Sasuke's new Chidori isn't all that godlike either. If Naruto's Rasengan is supposed to compete with Sasuke's new Chidori, I don't think he's lagging too far behind at this point.

[323Familia]

Originally Posted by 0TaKu0

Bahahaha, I knew that cut was fake or by the needle I'm glad it showed how Shikamaru put the blood on the spike. I’m still surprised Shika couldn’t chop Hidan's head off fully.. then again, I guess its cause Asuma had wind Chakra on his blades and Shika was significantly out of strength / stamina possibly. However, I think the chop to Hidan's neck was faked he made a shallow cut on purpose, Shikamaru is still playing possum, ^^ remember Shika's tactic’s / words guys "The first move is always a faint". I honestly, think Shika is faking it so Hidan would get closer to him... thinking Shikamaru is done for, hence leave openings all over the place, also it might be so Shikamaru can catch Hidan with a stronger Kagemane (remember, what he said during Tayuya the closer the stronger). So basically I'm saying Shikamaru is faking so he can execute the next part of his plan, we will see what happens in 338. Sabaku Kyu, I think we will get what we want, Shikamaru will kill Hidan or at least disable him as "revenge" for Asuma, while Naruto and Co. kill Kakuzu. That way everyone is happy.

I agree, Shikamaru definately has something up his sleeve. Perhaps he wants to lure him back into the circle before dealing his final blow. Because IIRC the curse can not be lifted until the one under the curse is dead. Or, perhaps he intends to use Hidans own blood against him somehow?

Originally Posted by lainex9

i thought jiraya was earth and fire.

anyways where did sai come from? i thought he died.

You obviously missed a chapter, that was a fake body that Kabuto made that was hung.

[Scarlet]

Originally Posted by lainex9

i thought jiraya was earth and fire.

anyways where did sai come from? i thought he died.

How many chapters did you miss He's been in a couple chapters since then.

[Bijuu Killer]

It looks like Hidumb is about to kill Shikamaru. Maybe Temari will rescue him again.

[kikko_s]

Wait so Kakuzu survives then. I thought that he had two hearts outside of himself. So if they're outside when the one left in his body gets hit, then shouldn't he have been dead already?

[gibits]

Originally Posted by Nanatsu

For the record, Sasuke's new Chidori isn't all that godlike either. If Naruto's Rasengan is supposed to compete with Sasuke's new Chidori, I don't think he's lagging too far behind at this point.

When a gril likes someone, anything the man does is acceptable. People are harsh on Naruto because he's not as cute or ansty as Sasuke.

Really, all Sasuke has shown is that he can mold the same jutsu (Chidori) into different shapes, everyone calls him god. Naruto does even more than that and people doubt him, talk about double standards.

If people want to be Sasuke fanboys just say you like him, no need to tear down on Naruto. The only person that deserves to be critized is Ino, is she just there to meet the female ninja quota?

[Ero-Senn1n]

Originally Posted by Bijuu Killer

It looks like Hidumb is about to kill Shikamaru. Maybe Temari will rescue him again.

I have 2 guesses (which i would like to happen):

1, Kurenai coming to rescue Shika: dumb ninja like Naruto are bad at the most intellectual type of jutsu, that is genjutsu. So i regard Kurenai as someone who can finish off Hidan if she's good enough, also it was Hidan who killed her Asuma. Killing hidan with genjutsu would be quite cool, as he cannot be killed phisically.

2, Naruto coming to rescue: it's not that cool to see Naruto only as 1 of the 7 ninja fighting Kakuzu, i'm not saying he could do a 1on1, but 7on1 is simply uncool. So if Naruto would fight simultaneously both akatsukians it would be both cool for Naruto, and also beliveable because Naruto has someone to help him against both akatsukians. Also we know that the only effective attack against Hidan was Asuma's wind attack. Asuma sliced Hidan in two, it would be cool to see Naruto doing a full-power wind rasengan which would slice Hidan into so tiny pieces that it's the total desintegration of Hidan. Also for the plot i would choose that the Naruto fighting Kakuzu is being killed by Kakuzu, so for the end of the chapter it would be a terrific scene to build up tension, then the real Naruto who had destroyed Hidan comes to help the team against Kakuzu. That would also show that Naruto's current kagebunshins are much stronger than old ones, if they can take big blows and not go "poof!".

It would be interesting if they get their hand on one of the rings. A ring could be a clue, maybe to begin the next arc.

[Mangekyo]

Originally Posted by gibits

When a gril likes someone, anything the man does is acceptable. People are harsh on Naruto because he's not as cute or ansty as Sasuke.

Really, all Sasuke has shown is that he can mold the same jutsu (Chidori) into different shapes, everyone calls him god. Naruto does even more than that and people doubt him, talk about double standards.

If people want to be Sasuke fanboys just say you like him, no need to tear down on Naruto. The only person that deserves to be critized is Ino, is she just there to meet the female ninja quota?

As gibits said Sasuke is no god, all he has shown is the same technique but in different parts of his body.Naruto on the other hand has"improved" more... even completing a jutsu that even the fourth couldn't complete. Damn Sasuke fanboys....

Ino is useless.....as usual.

[0TaKu0]

Originally Posted by gibits

When a gril likes someone, anything the man does is acceptable. People are harsh on Naruto because he's not as cute or ansty as Sasuke.

Really, all Sasuke has shown is that he can mold the same jutsu (Chidori) into different shapes, everyone calls him god. Naruto does even more than that and people doubt him, talk about double standards.

If people want to be Sasuke fanboys just say you like him, no need to tear down on Naruto. The only person that deserves to be critized is Ino, is she just there to meet the female ninja quota?

Hmm, I don’t know if this is the case though, ok here's the thing. First I’m definitely not a Sasuke fan, nor do I like him any where near as much as I like Naruto, ok now. The Rasengan is known to be an amazing jutsu, and we have seen it done some amazing things. It's just, this new technique is supposed to be Rasengan to the next level. A level even the fourth couldn’t achieve.

I like many other's just expected more, ~_~ especially after the chapter where Naruto is standing in that huge ditch come on people were thinking mini atom bomb and then all we got was ... well I don’t even know what to call that. Yes, Naruto did something more, there is no doubt about it, the training the type of stress it put on his mind (I wouldn’t be surprised if he damaged brain cells due to expanding too fast) he did something that others including the fourth could not do. Hence, is why we expected so much. Hence, is why I expected so much.

Honestly, it hurts me. All that handwork and sacrifice, everything Naruto did and this is the turnout he gets? What the hell Kishi? Yea, ok so Kakuzu used a high level fire jutsu and a high level wind jutsu to take that fire jutsu to the next level. Also, I guess Kakuzu could measure up to Naruto in term's of "time training" since he's lived.. seriously long.. and Naruto's training was kind of like "Time Travel". So what? Lets do the calculation, Water > Fire > Wind. The wind was used to make the fire stronger, the water was used to stop the fire, but a normal water would not win over a fire attack that had been boosted by wind, so... Naruto's wind was added to it. In other words, it was not Jutsu vs Jutsu it was... Jutsu + Jutsu vs Jutsu + Jutsu... meaning, Naruto's Jutsu is the equivalent of Kakuzu's wind Jutsu, hence it powered the water evenly as Kakuzu's wind jutsu powered kakuzu's fire jutsu.

Now you tell me, is that what you expected from his new technique I know I didn’t. Naruto deserves more, after all that this Jutsu should blow everyone and everything out of the water, why were we lead to believe such things if the turn out would be like this. Hence, I say blame Kishi (or some worker who works for him) . I'm not going to blame Ino either, I have decided not to blame the characters any more instead I will say this "Just blame Kishi." (or the people who work for him)

Originally Posted by kikko_s

Wait so Kakuzu survives then. I thought that he had two hearts outside of himself. So if they're outside when the one left in his body gets hit, then shouldn't he have been dead already?

I thought the same too, but I guess that makes more sense now. I like you figured Kakuzu's heart needed to be outside his body and perhaps behind the mask for it to be able to move on its own. However that does not seem to be the case. When you are struck in the heart (and you have only one) you don’t really have much time if any at all to replace it with another one, basically what I'm saying is. It would not make any sense for Kakuzu's heart's to be outside his body because as soon as he loses one another one needs to take it's place or just has to be inside his body so his body does not shut down.

Hence, I guess it would be safe to assume that all the heart's are inside Kakuzu's body already and have been from the start the thread's are just being controlled by his chakra each connected to a heart in his body.. so each time one heart is destroyed there's no need to "replace" because there’s 2-4 more already beating inside his body. Just a theory.

Originally Posted by Bijuu Killer

It looks like Hidumb is about to kill Shikamaru. Maybe Temari will rescue him again.

No way man... did you forget how Shikamaru works? His tactic's "The first move is always a faint" we didn’t see Shikamaru's face at the end.. that’s a indication he is faking in my opinion. He went down, they showed Hidan over him, we never saw his face.. in my experience that builds suspense, allot I'm telling you Shikamaru is faking it again. He wants to lure Hidan in to a strong sense of security, then strike him where it hurts.. maybe catch him in a stronger Kagemane (closer = stronger) just wait for 338 you'll see. The one you don’t see coming is the one that kills you, Shikamaru is known as some one who faints allot.

[Zek]

There must be something more to Shikamaru's plan, although I don't think he can possibly win by himself. It seems weird that the only payoff for that entire intricate setup was to kill one of Kakuzu's five hearts. He didn't even try to do more damage to Hidan while the mirror damage jutsu was still active. We also still don't know the purpose of all the explosive kunai he laid around the area.

[scorpio516]

Originally Posted by The Small One

Why did Shikamaru tell Hidan, what happened? This doesn't make sense, unless it's also still part of his plan and he is sure that he is going to win. But even if it's part of the plan, what does he gain by doing so?

Exactly what I thought.

Lets see, you have a stunned opponent who slashed his gut open trying to kill you... He's shocked that your not injured... Do you a) tell him why or b) LET HIM STAB HIMSELF AGAIN trying to kill you .

[IVIavrick]

Originally Posted by 0TaKu0

I like many other's just expected more, ~_~

Yea, ok so Kakuzu used a high level fire jutsu and a high level wind jutsu to take that fire jutsu to the next level. Lets do the calculation, Water > Fire > Wind. The wind was used to make the fire stronger , the water was used to stop the fire, but a normal water would not win over a fire attack that had been boosted by wind, so... Naruto's wind was added to it. In other words, it was not Jutsu vs Jutsu it was... Jutsu + Jutsu vs Jutsu + Jutsu... meaning, Naruto's Jutsu is the equivalent of Kakuzu's wind Jutsu, hence it powered the water evenly as Kakuzu's wind jutsu powered kakuzu's fire jutsu.

Something you must keep in mind is that Kakuzu's jutsu was still a powered up FIRE JUTSU. The Wind Rasengan for all its hype and glory is still a WIND JUSTU. As show by Kakuzu, when you pair a Fire and a Wind you get STRONGER FIRE. If Naruto had countered Kakuzu's flames with his, supposedly, super powerful Wind-based attack... he would only succeed in strengthening Kakuzu's attack.

I for one am glad that Naruto learned from Yamato's lesson...

[Torremitsu]

I wonder how Kyuubi would react to Hidan's ritual...

[0TaKu0]

Originally Posted by IVIavrick

Something you must keep in mind is that Kakuzu's jutsu was still a powered up FIRE JUTSU. The Wind Rasengan for all its hype and glory is still a WIND JUSTU. As show by Kakuzu, when you pair a Fire and a Wind you get STRONGER FIRE. If Naruto had countered Kakuzu's flames with his, supposedly, super powerful Wind-based attack... he would only succeed in strengthening Kakuzu's attack.

I for one am glad that Naruto learned from Yamato's lesson...

Well of course, because that is what I meant to point out. Here's what it boils down to, if water is > fire then Naruto's + Yamato's combination should not have only stopped Kakuzu's Jutsu but went through and demolished Kakuzu, (or at the least went through not stop and cancel out) hence it show's that Naruto's Wind Rasengan, is either the Equivalent or dare I say weaker then Kakuzu's wind jutsu.

Once again, in a mathematical calculation: (I'm going to use Yamato's real name "Tenzo")

Kakuzu Wind + Fire = Wire
Naruzo (Naruto+Tenzo) Wind + Water = Witer


Now, lets say we take away the 2 "Wi" Kakuzu's wind, and Naruto's Wind. We have left:

"ire" and "ter" Fire, and Water. Which would win? The fire or the water? Is Kakuzu's fire jutsu so strong that it would beat Tenzo's water jutsu considering water > fire?

My point being,
A wind jutsu was used to make a fire jutsu stronger: Kakuzu
A wind jutsu was used to make a water jutsu stronger: Naruto + Tenzo

Why should it cancel out, if water > fire? I only get two things from this, either Naruto's wind was too weak, or it was the equivalent of Kakuzu's wind jutsu and the truly weak jutsu was Tenzo's water jutsu. (I could even assign numerical value to this mathematical equation and go farther / deeper in to this, but I feel its not worth it considering we just saw it in action for the first time I mean I don’t want to jump to conclusions for what It can really do, just yet. For all we know the Jutsu could have been a defensive jutsu.)

Like I said, I blame Kishi, after all that and "achieving something the 4th couldn’t achieve" if this is the turn out well, fuck. All that hard work and sacrifice? I was lead by the nose, Naruto was standing in a crater that looked like a mini bomb had been dropped upon, come on kishi what the hell!? Any way, the only hope I cling to right now is this is the first time we saw it in action and the jutsu (Naruto + Tenzo) that was used was a defensive jutsu not a offensive jutsu, hence we cant make harsh judgments just yet. We need to wait and see it in action once more to really judge it.

EDIT:

I Just thought of something, this could explain it.

Ok, wind makes fire stronger right? Now think about it, Water > Fire but the jutsu's canceled out why?? The answer is with in the answer, they were both powered by wind but, the main thing that wind element powers is fire element not water element. It only slightly powers the water element.

So, Naruto and Tenzo's Wind + Water, actually caused Kakuzu's fire to become a bit stronger but because water is > fire, it canceled out instead of Yamato + Naruto's jutsu breaking through Kakuzu's. I know it sounds complicated it, but give it some thought you will get exactly what I mean.

A good example would be... imagine if Naruto was earth element... Water + Earth = Mud > Fire + Wind 100% (try pouring mud over a fire, it would stop right away), but its Water + Wind... the wind in the water is like Oil to the fire... although it made the water jutsu stronger, it also slightly boosted the fire hence ending in a total cancellation w00t! (Maybe I'm looking too much in to this, but I just can't except Naruto's jutsu being lame) In other words the new mathematical equation would look like this... Wi + ter vs Wi + Wi + ire = 0 (0 = Cancellation) It's not Wind + Water vs Wind + Fire, its Wind + Water vs Wind + Wind + Fire! That extra wind comes from Naruto's wind jutsu!

Mkay time for sleep.

[0rphen21]

If the power of Naruto's new rasengan is just that then it would just suck i mean with all the hype

[Zek]

This was a pretty strange way to introduce the Wind Rasengan after all the hype. The ultimate wind jutsu that even the fourth wasn't capable of performing, and it can't even counter Kakuzu's elemental jutsu without Yamato's help?