Sword Art Online - Episode 12 Discussion / Poll

[diogoasouza]

Originally Posted by larethian

Anyhow, Kawahara is only strong in details and setting with respect to games. When it comes to technological stuff which is outside of his area of expertise, anyone with intermediate level of knowledge of the technology can see that his writing and premises are *cough*, not something I will call good. It is always like that with him. I've already given up complaining on several things given the massive backlash from Naruto SAO fanboys. Techno aside, he does write an engaging plot and interesting character interactions though.

I agree with it, but he started writing it in 2002, maybe he expected the technology to be like that 20 years after

[dark998]

So Yui turned up to be a buffed up NPC of sorts, under the Cardinal system control (which was featured in the beginning of the OP video). Gotta love when apparently random imagery has actual meaning in the story.

Anyway, these two episodes felt sidestory-ish compared to 9 and 10 but the next episode sounds more promsing going only by the title.

[Krono]

Originally Posted by Rakshasa

I could explain in quite detail how an operating system can implement taking snapshot of a process, however it isn't simply about copying. Especially if you don't want to halt the process. No major operating system today really support that though, and we're moving towards using virtual machines anyway.

Leaving aside the fact that it's possible to copy a process while it's running, Yui disappearing was likely the mark of Cardinal stopping her process. So Kirito could just move the files for the already stopped process.

[supermegasonic]

well i was thinking she was the owners daughter but i guess i was wrong
and did both asuna and kirito just say they want a daughter together, in the real world!?!?

[Rakshasa]

Originally Posted by supermegasonic

well i was thinking she was the owners daughter but i guess i was wrong
and did both asuna and kirito just say they want a daughter together, in the real world!?!?

And Kirito will spend the rest of his life working on virtual realities trying to recreate the perfect world for Yui, lol.

[MeisterBabylon]

I qq a lot in this episode.

[grey_moon]

I really enjoyed this episode and was all snifflely during the xxx-san to mama/papa scene *cry*

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

Okay, well, let me get out of the way the really obvious thing: it sure was convenient that Kirito was a hacker who could understand the language of The Matrix Cardinal and could convert Yui into an in-game object on his first try on an insane deadline! I mean, not that I'm necessarily doubting that he's a pretty hardcore geek... but how would he even know the commands? .......

Originally Posted by Klashikari

Probably redundant, but I also have huge suspension of disbelief trouble regarding Kirito's stunt with the GM account. Regardless how Kirito is proficient in programming and computer languages whatsoever, the timeframe he had for that was ridiculously small, and the way how it was described require more than just GM Right. Other issue is of course the need for a GM terminal in-game instead of the console being accessible from their own menu via their nervegear.

...

Actually if we look at the current trend of programming languages, and actually I think development environments is a better term. The more power we have available the more simple the language becomes to use.

With all those graphical based utilities, "bad" programming is covered up by throwing resources at the problem. Those who remember those Amiga demos should know what I am on about xD

Originally Posted by Adigard

...

Really guys, GM's in MMO's are poorly paid scrubs who do customer service... they're not programmers, they're not IT people... they're barely people to the company they work for and are easily replaced. It's not going to require much research to use a console designed for GM interaction. And if it's an emergency access type thing... IE - to be used in a situation where the standard GM controls (likely built into the GM menu loaded in NervGEAR don't work) it's fairly safe to say it's not going to be overly complicated.

This I think is the most relative to real life comment I've seen so far, so the following comment is aimed at others not you xD

For example coding MUDs is a good example as they appear to be simple text based MMOs so no need to complicated the scenario with zing zing 3d effects.

Basically the MUD base is coded in various "hard core" languages, for example C for the server bits, and Perl for the text manipulation bits. Now as good a programmer you are, when you look at someone else's code base it will be a nightmare, especially since it seemed a lot of MUD coders like to make their code small and efficient. The smaller code is; the more short cuts used and for some obscene reason less comments given

Now if you actually develop in for the game in terms of creating content, you don't need to know C or Perl, instead you learn the in-game language which is always very simple and more importantly if associated with real life right now, it will be object orientated.

So Yui's object will have an object which is indexed, therefore if Kirito knows the GM language, tracking down an object should be relatively simple!

No hacking just using set commands that a GM would use if they were trying to review a character's profile etc

Originally Posted by Adigard

...

So he has a copy of her data... but the jewel / heart is a bit of a toughie. Did he split the data? Did he send a copy of her data to a different computer? Did handing Asuna the jewel move the data from his PC to hers? I think (and the novel's don't touch it at all) he simply created something for her to hold onto as a reminder. It's cleaner, ultimately. And it harkens back to Pina's heart that we saw in earlier episodes so it's an easy tie-in for the anime viewers.

Oooo this made me think... What if he didn't and just created an object to bypass wife mental breakdown?? But then I don't think Kirito would tell a lie of that magnitude....

[chaos_alfa]

Originally Posted by dark998

Anyway, these two episodes felt sidestory-ish compared to 9 and 10 but the next episode sounds more promsing going only by the title.

Because it was a side story

[Quadratic]

Yui: a program whose sole job is to provide comfort and support for those players in need.
She was designed to interact with players in an empathetic way, and her inability to help the players meant she could only become a reflection of the world's mental state. Isolated in a dark world full of negative emotions.

Kirito and Asuna's relationship is proof that their willpower together was able to overcome the depair Kayaba brought on and didn't need Yui's help.
Ironically, being 'chained' to the system and accumulation of despair meant that Yui, herself, required comfort and support.
If Kirito and Asuna represents a glimmer of light in the VR world, then it was only natural for her to seek and be with them, whether she intentionally knew this or not.
To Kirito and Asuna, Yui is their reward for their growing relationship and overcoming the depair Kayaba brought into the VR world.
To Yui, Kirito and Asuna also represent the belief that the world can survive without Yui's help.

The rules of 'fairness' makes its appearance once again:
If Yui was forbidden to do her sole job of helping the players, perhaps fairness was achieved by her single act of intervention.
If Yui's death was a consequence of her intervention, perhaps fairness was achieved by getting her 'heart' back.

Her heart is to be a "physical" reminder of their past together and goal they shouldn't lose sight of: Their desire for freedom not only for themselves, but also for their 'first child' who was chained to the system.

Spoiler for No novel spoilers (I'm an anime-only watcher, duh). My honest truth on the matter. Quadratic haters and ardent novel defenders need not open this:

Yeah, I overthought it yet again, and really stretched it this time.
Honestly, this show is severely underdeveloped (and saying that is still an understatement) and lacks proper development for me to care on a personal level.
Not going rant beyond this.

Originally Posted by chaos_alfa

Because it was a side story

Makes so much sense, it's not funny.

[MasterVampire]

Whats that music that plays right when the boss appears and almost kills that girl?

[Witch of Uncertainty]

Didn't really like it. The whole "mama" and "papa" thing just got emberrassing for me.

[novalysis]

Look back at the very first episode. Look at Kirito's room very very carefully. Look at his obsession with Kayaba, his customized Computers, his posters on Nerve Gear, games, etc. It's clear that this IS an ULTRA Geeky boy conversing with Hacking, and likely rather bright.

What I'd imagined happened was that Yui left behind the coding of the GM Terrminal in a particular computer language that a person sufficiently obsessed with IT and especially programming might be easily able to recognize. Looking at Yui's previous instructions as a template and hint, Kirito might have deduced and gambled on writing the right instructions to save Yui onto an item.

[Esebian]

Well, I know when I have to admit a crushing defeat So I'm begging the pardon of everyone I may have angered with my comments, especially Rakshasa. Sry if it may have looked as if I looked down on you or your knowledge, I got a bit carried away

BUT I still have another question: If Cardinal can "see" that Yui is breaking her rules and tries to erase her, wouldn't it naturally try to stop Kirito from saving her as it should know that somebody tries to copy her data with access from her account. The simpliest way to stop Kirito would imo be to log him out which should be no problem for Cardinal, but well I guess that is explained per plotarmour XD

[Znail]

Originally Posted by Esebian

Well, I know when I have to admit a crushing defeat So I'm begging the pardon of everyone I may have angered with my comments, especially Rakshasa. Sry if it may have looked as if I looked down on you or your knowledge, I got a bit carried away

BUT I still have another question: If Cardinal can "see" that Yui is breaking her rules and tries to erase her, wouldn't it naturally try to stop Kirito from saving her as it should know that somebody tries to copy her data with access from her account. The simpliest way to stop Kirito would imo be to log him out which should be no problem for Cardinal, but well I guess that is explained per plotarmour XD

Copying her has no impact on Cardinal's job. If Kirito manages to restore her after the game is cleared, that wont matter to Cardinal as that will happen somewhere else after all.

[ronelm2000]

Originally Posted by Esebian

Well, I know when I have to admit a crushing defeat So I'm begging the pardon of everyone I may have angered with my comments, especially Rakshasa. Sry if it may have looked as if I looked down on you or your knowledge, I got a bit carried away

BUT I still have another question: If Cardinal can "see" that Yui is breaking her rules and tries to erase her, wouldn't it naturally try to stop Kirito from saving her as it should know that somebody tries to copy her data with access from her account. The simpliest way to stop Kirito would imo be to log him out which should be no problem for Cardinal, but well I guess that is explained per plotarmour XD

Here's the thing: Cardinal does not read Intentions. You're on the wrong anime dude, go to Accel World. The nearest Cardinal can read to one's heart is through Yui, which is emotions. And Yui, consequently, knows when a person is lying by her heart. (Wow. that has got to be the second best way to know when someone is lying. ) Anyway, Cardinal does not actually "see" things... it detects things. It's the reason why...

Spoiler for Vol 2 -- cut out detail from Red Nosed Raindeer -- Game Mechanics:

...people, including Kirito, were able to constantly "abuse" the glass cannon ants that gave a relatively great amount of EXP.

...and why...

Spoiler for Vol 9 or 10 (can't remember) -- appending detail to Red Nose Raindeer -- Cardinal's Actions in SAO (nothing else):

... only after 6 months did Cardinal nerfed the EXP on those ants.

...and there's also...

Spoiler for Vol 2 -- cut out detail from Warmth of the Heart -- Self-Conclusion -- Cardinal and Weapon Creation:

...the rumors of blacksmiths' hearts having "effects" based on the player itself, the personality, and even emotions.

...and also...

Spoiler for Vol 2 -- cut out detail from Black Swordsman -- Cardinal and Graphics:

the fact that details only focus in detail when the player focuses on them, plus there's also events that only activate when players focus on them.

Cardinal does not constantly look at every single thing in SAO 24/7. If it did, imagine what it would do to the server. Essentially, it would crash, and crash epicly. Thus, Cardinal's entire actions are simply based upon hundreds of thousands of Observer Design Patterns (Go Google it if you're not a programmer; if you are, then you should know this!), which means.... yes, the entire point of this... is that Cardinal only bases its actions on things that are done, that had happened. Cardinal took a few minutes to judge Kirito suddenly pressing that virtual keyboard as a big no no because... at the same time... he's taking care of ... probably tens of thousands of other things. It's not like the server has infinite processing speed. An MMO server is not the supercomputer in USA that can compute probably a billion digits of Pi a second.

Whew.

[Adigard]

I'm not really defending this episode... I'm just defending some of the sillier points people are having issues with.

IE - OMG, he copied a file, nowai! vs. the "super advanced AI that's controlling all the behind the scenes work that would typically take a fairly large crew of human dev's / programmer's / etc."

Honestly I think it's a rather poorly adapted arc and somy of the 'bits' of the source material were sub-par, but that's one obvious glitch behind adaptions that's not trying to correct silly bits of the source material.

I really liked the overall arc as well as the overall original side story, and tried not to get mired in the silly nitpicks because it's ultimately not my adaption

[Esebian]

Originally Posted by ronelm2000

Here's the thing: Cardinal does not read Intentions. You're on the wrong anime dude, go to Accel World. The nearest Cardinal can read to one's heart is through Yui, which is emotions. And Yui, consequently, knows when a person is lying by her heart. (Wow. that has got to be the second best way to know when someone is lying. ) Anyway, Cardinal does not actually "see" things... it detects things. It's the reason why...

Spoiler for Vol 2 -- cut out detail from Red Nosed Raindeer -- Game Mechanics:

...people, including Kirito, were able to constantly "abuse" the glass cannon ants that gave a relatively great amount of EXP.

...and why...

Spoiler for Vol 9 or 10 (can't remember) -- appending detail to Red Nose Raindeer -- Cardinal's Actions in SAO (nothing else):

... only after 6 months did Cardinal nerfed the EXP on those ants.

...and there's also...

Spoiler for Vol 2 -- cut out detail from Warmth of the Heart -- Self-Conclusion -- Cardinal and Weapon Creation:

...the rumors of blacksmiths' hearts having "effects" based on the player itself, the personality, and even emotions.

...and also...

Spoiler for Vol 2 -- cut out detail from Black Swordsman -- Cardinal and Graphics:

the fact that details only focus in detail when the player focuses on them, plus there's also events that only activate when players focus on them.

Cardinal does not constantly look at every single thing in SAO 24/7. If it did, imagine what it would do to the server. Essentially, it would crash, and crash epicly. Thus, Cardinal's entire actions are simply based upon hundreds of thousands of Observer Design Patterns (Go Google it if you're not a programmer; if you are, then you should know this!), which means.... yes, the entire point of this... is that Cardinal only bases its actions on things that are done, that had happened. Cardinal took a few minutes to judge Kirito suddenly pressing that virtual keyboard as a big no no because... at the same time... he's taking care of ... probably tens of thousands of other things. It's not like the server has infinite processing speed. An MMO server is not the supercomputer in USA that can compute probably a billion digits of Pi a second.

Whew.

Big text trying to smash me... XD nah rly, ofc I know that Cardinal can't read intentions, that would be a bit overboard, wouldn't you think? ^^ But I mean, if you are currently erasing some programm, wouldn't you at least try to hinder inteferences from happening? And btw for your supercomputer, I'm quite positive that in 10 years we will have quantum computers and the normal computers with any computing power will be cheap as hell

[Adigard]

Originally Posted by Esebian

But I mean, if you are currently erasing some programm, wouldn't you at least try to hinder inteferences from happening? And btw for your supercomputer, I'm quite positive that in 10 years we will have quantum computers and the normal computers with any computing power will be cheap as hell

Hard to say really... in a true IT environment the erasure could be triggered to happen at the next downtime (another few years when everyone escapes?) just to ensure the affected program doens't have roots into anything else.

Or maybe after midnight, when most of the players aren't active.

Nothing says that a single program that has been quietly humming along for two years that only now committed a single rogue action would need to be deleted immediately and without any user interaction. Perhaps it asked for an operator response and was waiting for someone 'in charge' to approve. Perhaps it sent that request, and didn't recieve a response in a time frame and decided to delete the rogue program.

[Klashikari]

Except that Cardinal was described as an autonomous AI that doesn't require human maintenance.
By that extention, that also means the AI can respond itself without the need of confirmation from a human operator, seeing that AI is able to manage the balance of the game without any human input.

This probably explains how Kabaya can elude the government and all, as if the server has absolutely no need for maintenance or human control, there is even less information to track down.

[halibonga]

why is ep 12 getting such low ratings from every forum i go to? i thought it was frigging great.
most people's argument is that the style of 'introduce a new character who becomes close with the MC, then dramatically kill her off' is getting old. how can anybody dislike yui as a character?!