Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei LN - Archived Discussion

[blackwhite67]

More info courtesy of aespire of Jcafe:

Spoiler for Untouchable Nightmare:

Maya was kidnapped for experiment by Han Country (an independent country somewhere near/in present day China).
After being rescued, her psyche at that point was on verge of a total breakdown. Her father told Miya to use her ability to convert her experience into knowledge.

Their father announced to the clan that he is going on a personal journey to seek revenge for what was done to his daughter. The entire family supported his dicision and offered to aid him (thus half the clan went along with him, numbering around 30). They proceeded to assassinate and destory the country's power structure and magician pool. Totaling about 3600 people killed (commented by the father that Yotsuba members paid too high a price in this revenge journey, the member's worth is not only just equal to taking down 120 times their numbers in enemies). This resulted in the loss of the elites and whole power structure of the country, allowing for the later assimilation by the alliance (greater asia alliance or something?). Just prior/after killing the president (the last of their target), he felt the claws of death on him (his ability has a lot to associate with death, thus he is very sensitive to it), and knowing that his time was near and he'll never return to Japan, he said sorry to Maya and Miya (mentally) that he'll not be able to return.

During her father's attack, Maya and Miya had the conversation about Miya "killing" Maya as experience is what makes up a person, and changing all her experience from the beginning to that point, into knowledge effectively "killed" Maya. Miya was unable to respond to that and ran away without looking back. Subsequently, they never made up since.
It is also because of this that she begin to use her ability without a care, causing her subsequent deterioration of health.

Subsequently, Maya became the next head of family as her father never returned from the revenge attack against Han Country as he had overused his ability and was dying at the end of it. It is likely because Miya was unable to or was mentally unwilling to face her sister, because of her guilt, to be a contender as heir.

Things to note is that it seemed to suggest that while Yotsuba is no exactly humane in their pursue for power, they are a very close knitted family at that time. (seemed to have changed quite a bit since though with the guardian system etc). It was mentioned that to prevent their dna from being obtained by foreign/external groups/organization/governments, they have magic embeded on their body that activates upon death, to destroy their bodies.

[erdii]

Originally Posted by fujin of shadows

This seems interesting so allow me to join in for the sake of joining in.

Let me begin this reply and say that I love Miyuki and I can die happily if this novel ends with Miyuki and Tatsuya ending up together. They are siblings but damn it, who gives a shit?
[I]
They are siblings, so what!?

They are a man and a woman first, siblings second!

There is nothing wrong with them loving each other as lovers!

Doesn't that make there love purer compare to others!?

After all, they came from the womb of a single woman!

They have each others blood running through their veins!

That makes the saying 'made for each other' perfect for them!

That is why they are given the title 'Siblings'!

That is why they are the perfect lover for each other!

you really scared me there. ı have a little sister. don't say "They are siblings, so what!?" easily. it is something disgusting to me

[L-V]

I was just backtracking jcafe MKNR thread and saw similar arguments (like in the above posts), raised by the same person too, so this is sort of amusing (to me).

Anyway...

Spoiler for Ninendo Arc:

Somehow I thought Miyuki would be (a head) taller than Minami, understandable though, they're just a year/a few months apart and maybe Minami was wearing heels...just that when I look at this illustration Miyuki seems so short, or maybe it's just the dress?

Shizuku's outfit though and her lil brother.

Spoiler for Shippou:

I'm wondering why does he even think of (this maybe my misunderstanding) 'dethroning' Saegusa when Tatsuya mentioned before that Saegusa has never fallen out of ranks, not even once. Takumi knew that too, I suppose. His plans may only end up as wishful thinking, no? I wonder if Koichi or some high-ups from the Saegusa family did something to the Shippous.

Also, is there anyone else who thinks that rather than Kasumi, Izumi is more cunning? The latter knew a lot of information whereas the former just seem childish.

[Libros]

Originally Posted by L-V

I was just backtracking jcafe MKNR thread and saw similar arguments (like in the above posts), raised by the same person too, so this is sort of amusing (to me).

Anyway...

Spoiler for Ninendo Arc:

Somehow I thought Miyuki would be (a head) taller than Minami, understandable though, they're just a year/a few months apart and maybe Minami was wearing heels...just that when I look at this illustration Miyuki seems so short, or maybe it's just the dress?

Shizuku's outfit though and her lil brother.

Spoiler for Shippou:

I'm wondering why does he even think of (this maybe my misunderstanding) 'dethroning' Saegusa when Tatsuya mentioned before that Saegusa has never fallen out of ranks, not even once. Takumi knew that too, I suppose. His plans may only end up as wishful thinking, no? I wonder if Koichi or some high-ups from the Saegusa family did something to the Shippous.

Also, is there anyone else who thinks that rather than Kasumi, Izumi is more cunning? The latter knew a lot of information whereas the former just seem childish.

Could you tell me the names of the people in the picture please? Left to right or right to left, if possible please.

[blackwhite67]

Left to right: Minami, Honoka, Wataru, Shizuku, and Miyuki.

[yuzen003]

Based on Volume 5 Memories of summer

"Tatsuya's own eyes twinkled warmly. Whether inborn or acquired, imprinted by others or nurtured by himself, the fact was as long as Miyuki was there it wouldn't matter if they were in the city or in the mountains; he would be the same.
It was the one thing he truly wanted. As long as she was beside him, whatever the conditions didn't matter; this was something anyone who knew his circumstances could understand full well. Both Miyuki and Tatsuya depended heavily upon one another, but perhaps more on Tatsuya's side than the other."

Tatsuya's sole wish is to be with Miyuki at all times, people who think Miyuki is at fault for following him don't seem to have caught that. Since she is the entire focal point of his emotions he is incredibly dependent on her, if he wasn't her guardian he'd probably be stalking her because he needs her around to feel much of anything.

Since the one thing that matters to him is Miyuki, literally the only threat the Yotsuba could make would be to seperate them. By being her guardian Tatsuya ensures he gets his wish and he ensures that the sole object of his affection is safe, it's all positive from his perspective.

[L-V]

Originally Posted by Libros

Could you tell me the names of the people in the picture please? Left to right or right to left, if possible please.

Spoiler for Illustration and Names:

Left to Right:
Sakurai Minami (1st year, Yotsuba Guardian) ; Mitsui Honoka (2nd Year) ; Kitayama Wataru (Shizuku's little brother who cannot wield magic--or weak with using it or something) ; Kitayama Shizuku (2nd Year) ; Shiba Miyuki (gorgeous girl)

They are in the Kitayama house for a party thrown by Shizuku's father to celebrate Shizuku's return from US (Vampire Arc) if I'm not mistaken.

Edit:
Oh someone answered faster. Thank you, blackwhite67!!

[fujin of shadows]

Originally Posted by erdii

you really scared me there. ı have a little sister. don't say "They are siblings, so what!?" easily. it is something disgusting to me

Sorry for that...........I wrote many Incest fanfiction, that's why my sensitivity is very low when it comes to incest related fiction........Incest in real life is a different story though

[Libros]

Originally Posted by L-V

Spoiler for Illustration and Names:

Left to Right:
Sakurai Minami (1st year, Yotsuba Guardian) ; Mitsui Honoka (2nd Year) ; Kitayama Wataru (Shizuku's little brother who cannot wield magic--or weak with using it or something) ; Kitayama Shizuku (2nd Year) ; Shiba Miyuki (gorgeous girl)

They are in the Kitayama house for a party thrown by Shizuku's father to celebrate Shizuku's return from US (Vampire Arc) if I'm not mistaken.

Edit:
Oh someone answered faster. Thank you, blackwhite67!!

Originally Posted by blackwhite67

Left to right: Minami, Honoka, Wataru, Shizuku, and Miyuki.

Thanks guys. .

[cyberdemon]

Originally Posted by blackwhite67

Spoiler:

Things to note is that it seemed to suggest that while Yotsuba is no exactly humane in their pursue for power, they are a very close knitted family at that time. (seemed to have changed quite a bit since though with the guardian system etc). It was mentioned that to prevent their dna from being obtained by foreign/external groups/organization/governments, they have magic embeded on their body that activates upon death, to destroy their bodies.

sad to see what they have become if they used to be like that. I can see them becoming like that again when Miyuki takes charge. She's bound to make changes whether they like it or not.

[Jirachier]

@Libros
1 - The reason Miyuki went from candidate to be the next heir to officialy becoming the next heir is because the Maya fears Tatsuya and wants Miyuki to be the next head so that he never takes revenge upon them.
2 - You can try to rationalize it all you want but at the end of the day it's seriously too much: his clan discriminates against him because he can't use magic that alters the eidos(they don't know about his disintegration magic, at least then they would be fearful of him and never publicly show their hatred for him), the students discriminate against him because he is a course 2 students and they think he's no good, Chiaki gets angry at him and tries to sabotage his experiment just because she thinks he wanted her sister's downfall, one of the saegusa twins is being all tsundere because she thinks he is underserving of being with her sister(when the opposite is the truth), the actress and takami or whatever his name is are planning to use him for their own plan and make him look bad, i mean really for one reason or another everyone seems to be against tatsuya and not a single one has a good reason.
3 - Again, you are trying to explain why his abilities are secrets, I understand that already but it doesn't mean I'm going to like it.
4 - Miyuki isn't a tsundere, a tsundere never shows how much she loves the person in question, she's also very smart when she wants to be but she is abusive, she once hit him with a surge of psion or whatever(the first time ever his auto-regeneration was shown), she also gets angry at him when a girl gives him a bit of attention.
As for being rewarded for his capabilities, I know he doesn't care about all that but really, you make it sound like I want Tatsuya to demands personnally to be rewarded and to reveal his secrets etc etc, no i want the author to let Tatsuya somehow get his recognition either by putting him in a situation where he is forced to reveal his abilities or something else, but the point is, I understand all the reasons why tatsuya is doing what he is doing, but from my perspective it's just too many sacrifices and i want him to be rewarded.

@fujin of shadows

1 - first off being human is not defined by being emotionless or not, you either are born one or you're not, you can't make a set of criterias and say that if you do not fill them x isn't human, and really Miyuki doesn't do anything to Tatsuya, she isn't the one keeping him with the feeling of love, it was just a random occurence from the experiment it could've resulted in him loving/hating anyone it just happens to be his sister, if for exemple he had lost all emotions and THEN she kept trying to be nice to him and all and that was why he regained his love for her yes i would"ve agreed but that's not the case.
2 - again guys, those are logical explanations, if for example Miyuki was asleep and an earthquake happened and everything collapsed on her and she died, that's all logical explanation but would you be okay with it ? No you wouldn't, you have to understand that just because something makes sense doesn't make it bearable.
3 - jealously is a normal trait but they are not regular people, he can't have romantic feelings for ANYONE, she is HIS SISTER, he saved her life SEVERAL times, when you put them together she can feel jealously all she wants but she has no right to showcast it to him or punish him just because she feels jealous about something. seriously if this happened in real life you would be like 'what is wrong with that girl ?'.
4 - I understand the reason, but I refuse to like it and let's be honest here there are occurences when she could leave him alone but she doesn't, for example when he had that conversation with Kazama she just had to know what they were talking about.

If Miyuki wasn't his sister or didn't have incest thoughts of him, if she wasn't following him everywhere and was independent she would've probably been one of my favourite characters in Mahouka but her selfishness, jealously, ungratefulness, childish beheaviour just makes me dislike her.

[babbo3d]

Originally Posted by fujin of shadows

Sorry for that...........I wrote many Incest fanfiction, that's why my sensitivity is very low when it comes to incest related fiction........Incest in real life is a different story though

Are you the one that writes the MKR fanfic and the IS one i'm huge fan of yours please keep the good work.

Originally Posted by Jirachier

@Libros
1 - The reason Miyuki went from candidate to be the next heir to officialy becoming the next heir is because the Maya fears Tatsuya and wants Miyuki to be the next head so that he never takes revenge upon them.
2 - You can try to rationalize it all you want but at the end of the day it's seriously too much: his clan discriminates against him because he can't use magic that alters the eidos(they don't know about his disintegration magic, at least then they would be fearful of him and never publicly show their hatred for him), the students discriminate against him because he is a course 2 students and they think he's no good, Chiaki gets angry at him and tries to sabotage his experiment just because she thinks he wanted her sister's downfall, one of the saegusa twins is being all tsundere because she thinks he is underserving of being with her sister(when the opposite is the truth), the actress and takami or whatever his name is are planning to use him for their own plan and make him look bad, i mean really for one reason or another everyone seems to be against tatsuya and not a single one has a good reason.
3 - Again, you are trying to explain why his abilities are secrets, I understand that already but it doesn't mean I'm going to like it.
4 - Miyuki isn't a tsundere, a tsundere never shows how much she loves the person in question, she's also very smart when she wants to be but she is abusive, she once hit him with a surge of psion or whatever(the first time ever his auto-regeneration was shown), she also gets angry at him when a girl gives him a bit of attention.
As for being rewarded for his capabilities, I know he doesn't care about all that but really, you make it sound like I want Tatsuya to demands personnally to be rewarded and to reveal his secrets etc etc, no i want the author to let Tatsuya somehow get his recognition either by putting him in a situation where he is forced to reveal his abilities or something else, but the point is, I understand all the reasons why tatsuya is doing what he is doing, but from my perspective it's just too many sacrifices and i want him to be rewarded.

@fujin of shadows

1 - first off being human is not defined by being emotionless or not, you either are born one or you're not, you can't make a set of criterias and say that if you do not fill them x isn't human, and really Miyuki doesn't do anything to Tatsuya, she isn't the one keeping him with the feeling of love, it was just a random occurence from the experiment it could've resulted in him loving/hating anyone it just happens to be his sister, if for exemple he had lost all emotions and THEN she kept trying to be nice to him and all and that was why he regained his love for her yes i would"ve agreed but that's not the case.
2 - again guys, those are logical explanations, if for example Miyuki was asleep and an earthquake happened and everything collapsed on her and she died, that's all logical explanation but would you be okay with it ? No you wouldn't, you have to understand that just because something makes sense doesn't make it bearable.
3 - jealously is a normal trait but they are not regular people, he can't have romantic feelings for ANYONE, she is HIS SISTER, he saved her life SEVERAL times, when you put them together she can feel jealously all she wants but she has no right to showcast it to him or punish him just because she feels jealous about something. seriously if this happened in real life you would be like 'what is wrong with that girl ?'.
4 - I understand the reason, but I refuse to like it and let's be honest here there are occurences when she could leave him alone but she doesn't, for example when he had that conversation with Kazama she just had to know what they were talking about.

If Miyuki wasn't his sister or didn't have incest thoughts of him, if she wasn't following him everywhere and was independent she would've probably been one of my favourite characters in Mahouka but her selfishness, jealously, ungratefulness, childish beheaviour just makes me dislike her.

They know but like they said tatsuya is not a magician because magicians altere information to create phenomena but tatsuya can only create or destroy information so he does not count as one (why it said create information before i'm not sure maybe because of reg).

[cyberdemon]

Originally Posted by Jirachier

4 - Miyuki isn't a tsundere, a tsundere never shows how much she loves the person in question, she's also very smart when she wants to be but she is abusive, she once hit him with a surge of psion or whatever(the first time ever his auto-regeneration was shown), she also gets angry at him when a girl gives him a bit of attention.

actually she is. There are 2 types of Tsunderes. There's the tsun type which is more commonly used. They tend to not be honest and use violence against their love interest so not to admit it.

Then there is the dere types who tend to be more honest and sweet but have a tendency to use violence on them when other girls get involved out of jealousy.

Miyuki would be considered a Dere-type tsundere

[XFire]

Originally Posted by blackwhite67

More info courtesy of aespire of Jcafe:

Spoiler for Untouchable Nightmare:

Maya was kidnapped for experiment by Han Country (an independent country somewhere near/in present day China).
After being rescued, her psyche at that point was on verge of a total breakdown. Her father told Miya to use her ability to convert her experience into knowledge.

Their father announced to the clan that he is going on a personal journey to seek revenge for what was done to his daughter. The entire family supported his dicision and offered to aid him (thus half the clan went along with him, numbering around 30). They proceeded to assassinate and destory the country's power structure and magician pool. Totaling about 3600 people killed (commented by the father that Yotsuba members paid too high a price in this revenge journey, the member's worth is not only just equal to taking down 120 times their numbers in enemies). This resulted in the loss of the elites and whole power structure of the country, allowing for the later assimilation by the alliance (greater asia alliance or something?). Just prior/after killing the president (the last of their target), he felt the claws of death on him (his ability has a lot to associate with death, thus he is very sensitive to it), and knowing that his time was near and he'll never return to Japan, he said sorry to Maya and Miya (mentally) that he'll not be able to return.

During her father's attack, Maya and Miya had the conversation about Miya "killing" Maya as experience is what makes up a person, and changing all her experience from the beginning to that point, into knowledge effectively "killed" Maya. Miya was unable to respond to that and ran away without looking back. Subsequently, they never made up since.
It is also because of this that she begin to use her ability without a care, causing her subsequent deterioration of health.

Subsequently, Maya became the next head of family as her father never returned from the revenge attack against Han Country as he had overused his ability and was dying at the end of it. It is likely because Miya was unable to or was mentally unwilling to face her sister, because of her guilt, to be a contender as heir.

Things to note is that it seemed to suggest that while Yotsuba is no exactly humane in their pursue for power, they are a very close knitted family at that time. (seemed to have changed quite a bit since though with the guardian system etc). It was mentioned that to prevent their dna from being obtained by foreign/external groups/organization/governments, they have magic embeded on their body that activates upon death, to destroy their bodies.

...................................Holy shit. No wonder they're so screwed up.

[Jirachier]

Originally Posted by babbo3d

Are you the one that writes the MKR fanfic and the IS one i'm huge fan of yours please keep the good work.



They know but like they said tatsuya is not a magician because magicians altere information to create phenomena but tatsuya can only create or destroy information so he does not count as one (why it said create information before i'm not sure maybe because of reg).

No they don't, remember in the shiba past arc Miyuki had no idea about his distintegration/regeneration abilities, she only knew about his Gram Demolition and that the clan as a whole knows tatsuya for his physicall capabilities in combination with Gram Demolition, she only discovered his magic when he had to use it in front of her to destroy the torpedos. The only ones truly aware of what he can do are the ones at the absolute top of the Yotsuba so no, the clan as a whole isn't aware of what he can do.

[Libros]

Originally Posted by Jirachier

@Libros
1 - The reason Miyuki went from candidate to be the next heir to officialy becoming the next heir is because the Maya fears Tatsuya and wants Miyuki to be the next head so that he never takes revenge upon them.
2 - You can try to rationalize it all you want but at the end of the day it's seriously too much: his clan discriminates against him because he can't use magic that alters the eidos(they don't know about his disintegration magic, at least then they would be fearful of him and never publicly show their hatred for him), the students discriminate against him because he is a course 2 students and they think he's no good, Chiaki gets angry at him and tries to sabotage his experiment just because she thinks he wanted her sister's downfall, one of the saegusa twins is being all tsundere because she thinks he is underserving of being with her sister(when the opposite is the truth), the actress and takami or whatever his name is are planning to use him for their own plan and make him look bad, i mean really for one reason or another everyone seems to be against tatsuya and not a single one has a good reason.
3 - Again, you are trying to explain why his abilities are secrets, I understand that already but it doesn't mean I'm going to like it.
4 - Miyuki isn't a tsundere, a tsundere never shows how much she loves the person in question, she's also very smart when she wants to be but she is abusive, she once hit him with a surge of psion or whatever(the first time ever his auto-regeneration was shown), she also gets angry at him when a girl gives him a bit of attention.
As for being rewarded for his capabilities, I know he doesn't care about all that but really, you make it sound like I want Tatsuya to demands personnally to be rewarded and to reveal his secrets etc etc, no i want the author to let Tatsuya somehow get his recognition either by putting him in a situation where he is forced to reveal his abilities or something else, but the point is, I understand all the reasons why tatsuya is doing what he is doing, but from my perspective it's just too many sacrifices and i want him to be rewarded.

I understand what you mean, lots of cost with little gain from an outsiders perspective seems like a terrible deal but remember, Tatsuya isn't unhappy. In the end that's one of the things that really matters. At least, that's what it seems like to me, if he was able to feel happiness. I'm sure one of these days he's going to get his day in the sun(Fame and respect) and when that day comes, lots of people like you will be happy and satisfied, I'm sure. But until then, Tatsuya's life is going to remain largely the same, he defeats the toughest enemies, jumps through the highest hoops and solves all the hardest puzzles while leaving most of his friends and the rest of the world wholly unaware that all the above is child's play to him.

Moreover he does all of that while being the MC, the toughest job of all since he has to help the author keep the story interesting.

[malason13]

Originally Posted by fujin of shadows

Sorry for that...........I wrote many Incest fanfiction, that's why my sensitivity is very low when it comes to incest related fiction........Incest in real life is a different story though

The same for me man. I have a twin sister and things like incest is okay for me. As long as it is not in RL especially if it is someone i know. It is just creepy.

[bietchie11]

Originally Posted by Jirachier

1. You can be a bro-con all you want but if Tatsuya saved your life several times, protected you your whole life, makes sure nothing bothers you, maintain your CAD, etc etc etc then you have absolutely no right to get mad at him especially when you know he is innocent so she should either shut all of her emotions inside of her or get angry at the ones who bother Tatsuya not him, that's childish and selfish to the extreme.
From their sibling relationship Miyuki is obvious getting all the benefits from it.

Originally Posted by Jirachier

While Miyuki is not just some stupid girl, as a fan of Tatsuya I cannot help but dislike her.


1.Because of her he is not free to go anywhere he wants/do whatever he wants(she could release him from his guardian duties if she wanted to)


2.while he is much better than her in every way she gets to be the heir(and even that happens mostly because they're afraid of him) and not him, in school she gets to be called the genius, the ice queen and be admired and Tatsuya who has major accomplishment and more astonishing capabilities isn't(well most of them are secret but when you keep adding one thing to another it stops mattering why),

3.sometimes she gets angry at him for selfish reasons like when girls seems to be interested in him which is NONE OF HER BUSINESS and she even attacked him once with magic(how can someone be so selfish and ungrateful).

4.She follows him EVERYWHERE and while he does says that they're not attached to the hip but seriously the only time they're not together is when they are forced into it like when they have different classes and now it's going to be even worse since he's in the student council.

I read this LN because of Miyuki picture, stay because of Tatsuya devilish so let get it started:

POINT 1 Selfish and ungreatful you say?
**Guardian relief?? This is probrem between him and Yotsuba.
Yotsuba is dying to see him released from guardian duty.
Both the Head and his father and his father's bitch want him to stop his duty to become their money-making slave:

"......Then, let's cut right to the chase. The company labs require your assistance. If possible, we hope you will drop out from high school."

"Impossible. During Miyuki's enrollment at First High, I am unable to fulfill my mission as a guardian if I am not a student at First High."

A ridiculous demand warranted a flat refusal from Tatsuya.

"Even if you're not a student, other guardians could be made available."

"There is a shortage of Magicians in every field. Even the Yotsuba Family would be hard pressed to replace a guardian on such short notice."

"In other words, you are the finest candidate?"

"When only restricted to Miyuki's protection, that is indeed the case."

This was a conversation that had occurred multiple times in the past.

Whew, Sayuri heaved a great sigh that didn't seem theatrical.

"......I doubt any company has enough surplus to allow someone as talented as you, to simply play around."

May be she can't see the big picture, (because he keeps things from her in order to not make her mad at her father and clan and the clan only reveal details that favor them) but she instinctively make the right call:
escaping from being a guardian doesn't means escaping being Yotsuba slave.

And she allows him do a lot of things as her guardian: do military training, CAD development, making friends,... and the best part is it is all benefit for him more than for her.
In Reminiscence arc, if not for Miyuki helping him by using pretext (that she wants to go to the military CAD factory and want Tatsuya accompany), he couldn't have a chance to make use of Major's invitation (simply because his mother doesn't allow to) and wouldn't fall in love with CAD.

BAAAM! random line: "Love is selfish"
Joke aside

"You know... in truth, I died three years ago."

"Huh?"

In light of this confession, not even she could suppress her voice.

"Or maybe it's better to say I should have died? But at that time, I truly could feel my life fading from my body, so I suppose 'I really did die' isn't that inaccurate either."

As Miyuki spoke her smile was so fleeting, and the line 'I really did die' delivered with such conviction that Shizuku couldn't help but feel a shiver run down her spine.

"It's because of Onii-sama that I can stand before you like this. Being able to cry, to laugh, to speak with you right here and now, is all thanks to him. I owe my life to him, and all I have and all I am belong to him alone."

"That's..."

The question 'what does that mean?' remained unspoken, and no answer to it came.

"The feelings I have for Onii-sama are not romantic love."

The answer she gave instead referred to the second question 'as a man?', and the conviction in her voice was no less than before.

"Romantic love, means you want something from that person doesn't it?"

Even if she could have conversely asked Miyuki 'isn't love wanting that person to be yours?', Shizuku didn't reply. She believed it wasn't suitable, and besides,

"But, there is nothing I want from Onii-sama. Because I have already received me myself from him."

She instinctively understood Miyuki wasn't searching for an answer.

"I don't desire anything more from him. I won't even ask him to accept my feelings. In the end... I guess, love is the only word I could use to describe it."

"...I got it."

At Miyuki's confession, Shizuku could do nothing but raise the white flag.

"Miyuki, you really are the real deal."

Her actions speak for themselves.


POINT 2 : smart sister, dumb brother.

**This is the problem between him and those arrogant mother-fu.ckers.
They look down on him has nothing to do with her.

**In fact, she wants him to be acknowledged, to be respected by others. That is why she tried to get him in the council, 9- school competition to show those fu.cker how great her brother is.
**And she is a genius. After all, she is Tatsuya's sister. Enough said.


Don't think Tatsuya as some jealous trash with persecution complex who blames his sister for stealing everything from him. That's beneath him.

POINT 3: nosy?
What he does with other girls is none of her business, true. => that means she can't interfere with the said matter right?
**She is jealous, yes but she always tries her best to control her behaviors (you never know if not for her magic unintentionally goes out of control.)
**And never forcefully hinders him:

First is Erika:

Even so, seeing an adorable classmate (even in Miyuki's eyes, Erika was an undeniable beauty) display an almost affectionate — Miyuki believed this might be "love" — towards him, Tatsuya still watched her go, behind that unyielding mask of logic, causing Miyuki's heart to ache more than be at ease. "

HER LOVE FOR HER BROTHER IS BEYOND JEALOUSY.

Honoka is another prime example.

"It's fine. I have no intention to interfere with Honoka whatsoever. ...Just so you know, I will feel really jealous though?

So rest assured, although I guess that's going to be difficult."

As Miyuki gave a light laugh, Shizuku's expression seemed to be nearing tears.

"...Why."

"Why what?"

"Why...do you try to detach yourself like that? I mean, when it's so evident that you love Tatsuya-san so much."

You can control your actions regardless your feeling(definition of mature)
but you can't control your feeling (definition of human).

Last but not least is Lina.

She does ask him this and that. But hey, the line between caring and monitoring is very thin. You probably all experience it with your parents.

POINT 4: absolute defend.
If he is annoyed, well that will a problem.
But he is not. (He actually loves it.)

The difference between a stalker and a boy/girlfriend is based on your affection toward them.

You think of her as a stalker but in reality , she is (to Tatsuya) his sister, (to me) his girlfriend.
And being with the ones you love is total normal (not just romance love, father, mother, friends, brother, sister,... ). No one see it a problem. Unless you want ... to be by his side instead of her and possess him for yourselves.

P/S: that naked-examination-hugging and blasting event? it it just a joke.
Stated by both Tatsuya and Miyuki. And they often do it, even before he spoke privately with Mari so it is unrelated.
The joke is extreme for a normal person but they are not normal. She is aware of his ability-the boundary and limit the joke within it.
(Not like some bitches who just abuse the guy regardless what they feel and pass it off with "he deserve it":Zero no Tsukaima, Seirei Tsukai no Blade Dance, Hidan no Aria, Kikou Shoujo wa Kizutsukanai,....)

[fujin of shadows]

Originally Posted by Jirachier

@fujin of shadows

1 - first off being human is not defined by being emotionless or not, you either are born one or you're not, you can't make a set of criterias and say that if you do not fill them x isn't human, and really Miyuki doesn't do anything to Tatsuya, she isn't the one keeping him with the feeling of love, it was just a random occurence from the experiment it could've resulted in him loving/hating anyone it just happens to be his sister, if for exemple he had lost all emotions and THEN she kept trying to be nice to him and all and that was why he regained his love for her yes i would"ve agreed but that's not the case.

2 - again guys, those are logical explanations, if for example Miyuki was asleep and an earthquake happened and everything collapsed on her and she died, that's all logical explanation but would you be okay with it ? No you wouldn't, you have to understand that just because something makes sense doesn't make it bearable.

3 - jealously is a normal trait but they are not regular people, he can't have romantic feelings for ANYONE, she is HIS SISTER, he saved her life SEVERAL times, when you put them together she can feel jealously all she wants but she has no right to showcast it to him or punish him just because she feels jealous about something. seriously if this happened in real life you would be like 'what is wrong with that girl ?'.

4 - I understand the reason, but I refuse to like it and let's be honest here there are occurences when she could leave him alone but she doesn't, for example when he had that conversation with Kazama she just had to know what they were talking about.

If Miyuki wasn't his sister or didn't have incest thoughts of him, if she wasn't following him everywhere and was independent she would've probably been one of my favourite characters in Mahouka but her selfishness, jealously, ungratefulness, childish beheaviour just makes me dislike her.

For starters, I am going to applaud you for giving a damn good argument.....I respect that, even though our opinion varies.........

Now, I'm going out in the limb her and guess that this would be one of the first debate about Miyuki's character...Heaven knows that there will be more debate about Miyuki's character when MKnR becomes an anime....

I can already see that many people would like her character and many people would hate her character....

I am one of the many that loves her character....

That said, my rebuttal.........

1) I know what you are saying, but I must reiterate my last statement, or I think restate my early statement.

Miyuki is the only one that makes Tatsuya feel like human. In his clan, he is treated as a tool and there are times in the novel when I feel like Tatsuya considers himself as a tool. Miyuki doesn't see him like that and genuinely treats him like a brother. As she said in the earlier chapters of the novel, there is no one in the world that she respects and admire more than her brother.

Also, about her not letting her brother go, it kinda makes sense. You said earlier that Miyuki refuses to set Tatsuya free, let me ask you this...Will his clan allow him to be free, and though Tatsuya has the power to free himself, at what price would he pay?

Also, about him keeping the emotion sibling love.........Do you find it strange that he was able to keep the love he has for his sister as his only emotion...Call it fate, call it a freak accident, he was still able to keep that emotion, that one single and special emotion that defined and verified his very existence...

In my opinion, just my opinion, he willingly parted with his emotions but kept the emotion that would allow him to protect the person that he considers the most important being of his life.

2) As for your second, I have no proper rebuttal for that without sound like a total hypocrite, so that's your point.

3) I would admit to your point that she is selfish when it comes to Tatsuya, but come on now, everybody is selfish when it comes to love. Nobody in God's green earth would not be selfish when it comes to the love of their life. By Miyuki being selfish when it comes to her brother is what makes me see that she cares for her brother.

It's okay to be selfish sometimes after all.

Also, I know that I am going to sound like an ass when I say this, and I probably am, but Tatsuya cannot be hurt because of his regeneration... And also, At the end of the day, his sister was incapable of actually doing something that could cause him harm. This is a weak defense, that much I would admit.

4) As for Miyuki not leaving him alone, you must remember that whatever happens to Tatsuya would affect Miyuki. They have a bond that surpasses that of normal siblings, they are borderline lovers if I may comment. And that is very sweet.

I know I can't change your opinion about Miyuki's character, and I respect your opinion, but as a fan of this novel, I have to defend one of my favorite character because of principles...

You see, in my opinion, Tatsuya's and Miyuki's relationship can be summed into this praise....

'Where ever you go, I go, Where ever you go, I will follow....'

It doesn't matter where Tatsuya would go, Miyuki will always be there for him, following him as his pillar of support willingly. Where ever Miyuki goes, Tatsuya will always follow because he will do everything to protect the only one that he could ever value........

Tatsuya will follow Miyuki because of duty............Miyuki will stay .............beside Tatsuya out of her own will............That is my opinion

[Undur]

Seemed like an interesting discussion so I'll just be jumping in with some of my own thoughts

Originally Posted by Jirachier

1 - first off being human is not defined by being emotionless or not, you either are born one or you're not, you can't make a set of criterias and say that if you do not fill them x isn't human, and really Miyuki doesn't do anything to Tatsuya, she isn't the one keeping him with the feeling of love, it was just a random occurence from the experiment it could've resulted in him loving/hating anyone it just happens to be his sister, if for exemple he had lost all emotions and THEN she kept trying to be nice to him and all and that was why he regained his love for her yes i would"ve agreed but that's not the case.
2 - again guys, those are logical explanations, if for example Miyuki was asleep and an earthquake happened and everything collapsed on her and she died, that's all logical explanation but would you be okay with it ? No you wouldn't, you have to understand that just because something makes sense doesn't make it bearable.
3 - jealously is a normal trait but they are not regular people, he can't have romantic feelings for ANYONE, she is HIS SISTER, he saved her life SEVERAL times, when you put them together she can feel jealously all she wants but she has no right to showcast it to him or punish him just because she feels jealous about something. seriously if this happened in real life you would be like 'what is wrong with that girl ?'.
4 - I understand the reason, but I refuse to like it and let's be honest here there are occurences when she could leave him alone but she doesn't, for example when he had that conversation with Kazama she just had to know what they were talking about.

If Miyuki wasn't his sister or didn't have incest thoughts of him, if she wasn't following him everywhere and was independent she would've probably been one of my favourite characters in Mahouka but her selfishness, jealously, ungratefulness, childish beheaviour just makes me dislike her.

1 - Yes you are either born human or not, but when you are born human, you are born with a set of characteristics that have define being human and are unique to humans. One of the most significant features is the capacity for emotion. If those characteristics and traits are removed, then are you still human? If there was a creature that resembled a dog in shape and form, but not in manner, would it still be a dog?
2 - Couldn't follow all the arguments and counter arguments throughout this thread for this one, so I'm completely clueless here...
3 - Using that same reasoning, a child/teen/minor has no right to argue against his/her parents or acting against their wishes. After all, they dedicated so much of their lives to raise the child/teen/minor right? They've given so much to him/her. Yet, whenever you hear about a friend or someone who got into an argument with their parents, you most likely don't think "what is wrong with this guy? arguing with his parents after all that they have done?" And in the case of MKnR, she never actually punished him. I'm assuming you're talking about the CAD calibration scene during V1C4. While she did say "This is your punishment!", it's not actually a punishment. "In reality, wasn't this exactly like a pair of innocent siblings playing around. At the end of the day, his sister was incapable of actually doing something that could cause him harm."
4 - Which particular conversation with Kazama are you talking about?

If Miyuki wasn't his sister then wouldn't she simply be another stereotypical tsundere? I feel like the fact that she is his sister is what makes her character unique. Even if she wasn't his sister, she would still have the selfish, jealous, ungrateful, and childish behavior that you said (though I disagree with how you describe her behavior). Unless you're saying that if she weren't his sister, then she wouldn't have all those characteristics. Then what you seem to be saying is simply "I would like her if she wasn't who she is". Which is your own opinion (everyone gets to have an opinion), but doesn't that seem slightly off? I guess another way of putting it would be like someone saying "I would like cats if they had all the characteristics of dogs and none of the characteristics of cats."