Gurren-Lagann - Episode 27 (END) Discussion / Poll

[Midonin]

That's not even getting into the sciency-sounding Technobabble that Genome's Head in a Tube loved spouting near the end. "Random Schroedinger Warp", "Super Spiral Space"...it sounds important, but all we know is that it's dangerous and it looks cool when Simon blows it up.

[7Th]

Originally Posted by musashiken

Like I said, the writers screwed up with Nia's existence. From a discarded daughter in a box that's supposed to be created by Lord Genome to an animated doll from the Anti-spirals? Where's the connection?

If nothing else, Nia had a Spiral Genome. A fake Spiral Genome hidden within the realms of possibilities by the Anti-Spirals but still an Spiral Genome. Supposedly, The Messenger was a creature hidden within the limitless combination of the double helix, Nia happened to be the one to suffer such an origin. That's pretty much all there is to it.

[Teletha]

Originally Posted by U<3Anime

Exactly how i felt. With an anime like Gurren Lagann, anything is possible. Even a little guy like Buta can gain and give out a huge burst of spiral energy. Even Kittan managed to pull of Giga Drill Breaker, so why it is not possible to keep Nia alive? Man they just had to kill her and give us such a bitter sweet ending. Which i find, kind of out place for Gurren Lagann and left me tingling with an unsatisfying feeling. I still think this episode deserves a 9/10 though because Gainax could have done worse with killing everybody or Simon loses and ends up like spiral king. I can only dream that they make an alternate for the DVD release *sigh*

The whole show has been bittersweet. Kittan's family has a bittersweet ending obviously. Yoko lost two people she loved and probably lived out her days alone as a teacher. Viral obviously will never get the family he desires. Spiral power can do a lot, but they are still human. Kittan pulled the giga drill breaker off, but he's dead. Kamina died even when they were victorious. Same with a lot of other people. Simon saved Nia from the anti-spirals and she was happy and then her life ended. There has always been a balance in this show. Yes, it was sad she died but it's not out of place in the story.

[musashiken]

Originally Posted by Teletha

The whole show has been bittersweet. Kittan's family has a bittersweet ending obviously. Yoko lost two people she loved and probably lived out her days alone as a teacher. Viral obviously will never get the family he desires. Spiral power can do a lot, but they are still human. Kittan pulled the giga drill breaker off, but he's dead. Kamina died even when they were victorious. Same with a lot of other people. Simon saved Nia from the anti-spirals and she was happy and then her life ended. There has always been a balance in this show. Yes, it was sad she died but it's not out of place in the story.

Well at least all of them have something to look forward to for the future: Kittan's family still have descendants, Lette has her children, Yoko has her students, Viral has his fleet. What has Simon got? Closure? That's just lame. So what if he's a traveling hobo/vigilante/good samaritan/etc? All he does is watch after the world he saved. Sure, he's the hero, all heroes should be lonely and they should take backstage and look after the world once their job is done. Pft, at least give him a companion. Boota? Come on, who are we kidding? So we can't have Simon and Nia living in seclusion instead?

I'd think that having Nia survive and traveling around the world with Simon doing deeds in atonement would have made a better epilogue. Like the strange couple that saved some kid from some harmless sand monster looking for a snack, and the old geezer giving him a drill and the old lady giving him a pat on the head.

[Malintex_Terek]

Originally Posted by musashiken

I'd think that having Nia survive and traveling around the world with Simon doing deeds in atonement would have made a better epilogue. Like the strange couple that saved some kid from some harmless sand monster looking for a snack, and the old geezer giving him a drill and the old lady giving him a pat on the head.

Reminds me of Mononoke's ending for some reason, though they're only vaguely simmilar.

[Nightengale]

One of the things that annoyed me with Simon passing on the future to the...future with his whole Digger stint was firstly, I've always felt that one of the reasons Nia did what she did, believing in Simon even though she knew of Spiral Nemesis, was because she believed in Simon, she believed in his power that would overcome any odds, even a black hole of universes. She believed him wholeheartedly that he would save her, save the universe, he believed in his entirety.

But for Simon to go and do the "you do it, I'm just a digger." felt half-assed. Even ignoring the Anti-Spiral and his promise lol, it really felt like he was betraying a part of Nia's trust in him.

Not to mention that while living for the future is one theme of GL, there had been little actual development on passing on the future to the future generation as opposed to say Toward the Terra, especially on Gimmy's part. It really felt tacked on, since from the start, it had always been Simon's story.

[Ninjacat]

Originally Posted by Nightengale

One of the things that annoyed me with Simon passing on the future to the...future with his whole Digger stint was firstly, I've always felt that one of the reasons Nia did what she did, believing in Simon even though she knew of Spiral Nemesis, was because she believed in Simon, she believed in his power that would overcome any odds, even a black hole of universes. She believed him wholeheartedly that he would save her, save the universe, he believed in his entirety.

But for Simon to go and do the "you do it, I'm just a digger." felt half-assed. Even ignoring the Anti-Spiral and his promise lol, it really felt like he was betraying a part of Nia's trust in him.

Not to mention that while living for the future is one theme of GL, there had been little actual development on passing on the future to the future generation as opposed to say Toward the Terra, especially on Gimmy's part. It really felt tacked on, since from the start, it had always been Simon's story.

... That's exactly why the story ended when Simon passed the torch. There's no reason to believe Simon hadn't made himself usefull in the following years, just not as some god-emperor.

That's the whole point! By refusing to take the anti-spiral mantle, he secured his victory. Nobody's playing god anymore, what Kamina set in motion is, at last, reality. Humanity is now free.

Besides, returning to being commander in chief would have been incredibly boring after basically killing God

[7Th]

If nothing else musashiken you should be happy at the depiction of Nia during the episode, as they "got" her beautifully.

[uebo7]

Ive been thinking about the whole Nia and Genome issue and i have a theory. Nia is probably his only real daughter but in episode 11 Guame mentions that all of those girls in that town are sent to Genome to act as one. Maybe the reason Genome was throwing them away was to prevent the anti spiral messenger from awakening. Maybe back when he was defeated the anti spiral told him about it and he wasnt sure who it would be so he killed them all. His conversation with Nia in 27 shows that he regrets what he did and that it wasnt the only way to handle it. After being with Simon so long he realized that you can do things differently. Instead of doing what the anti spirals wanted and keeping people under ground he could have fought back and kicked their ass. Viral's comment is probably refering to this realization.

or it's just that the writters messed up.....

But either way it doesnt bother me much. The overall emotional impact of Genome's last attack was still amazing. btw does anyone think that drill with his face on it was a reference to G gundam?

[RyougaElliot]

Genome's rise to awesomeness made me squee with delight. Talk about a helluva come back. His final moment of greatness just blew me away.

This whole finale did.

GL= Better than sliced bread. It has been decided.

[Nightengale]

Originally Posted by uebo7

Ive been thinking about the whole Nia and Genome issue and i have a theory. Nia is probably his only real daughter but in episode 11 Guame mentions that all of those girls in that town are sent to Genome to act as one. Maybe the reason Genome was throwing them away was to prevent the anti spiral messenger from awakening. Maybe back when he was defeated the anti spiral told him about it and he wasnt sure who it would be so he killed them all. His conversation with Nia in 27 shows that he regrets what he did and that it wasnt the only way to handle it. After being with Simon so long he realized that you can do things differently. Instead of doing what the anti spirals wanted and keeping people under ground he could have fought back and kicked their ass. Viral's comment is probably refering to this realization.

or it's just that the writters messed up.....

But either way it doesnt bother me much. The overall emotional impact of Genome's last attack was still amazing. btw does anyone think that drill with his face on it was a reference to G gundam?

No, ANY SPIRAL BEING could've been the Messenger. Hell, it could've even been Simon. It was just downright plain irony that it turned out to be Nia.

[uebo7]

No, ANY SPIRAL BEING could've been the Messenger. Hell, it could've even been Simon. It was just downright plain irony that it turned out to be Nia.

well i was really just trying to explain why he would want to kill all of his daughters. I don't think it's just because they questioned thier existance. Genome is not evil and we know that because he was one of the originall spiral knights and even though he forced people under ground he had good intentions so i don't think he would kill Nia and his other daughters that easily. But another thing that i noticed about Genome before the time skip was that he refered to the gurren dan as humans as if he was'nt one. Theres also that part in 15 where he's in the middle of fighting Simon and he mentions someone that he fought before in a similar way. Who could this be? Kamina's dad? Someone we don't know? Maybe the anti spirals?

[Malintex_Terek]

Originally Posted by Nightengale

No, ANY SPIRAL BEING could've been the Messenger. Hell, it could've even been Simon. It was just downright plain irony that it turned out to be Nia.

It was also a blessing.

Imagine, if it wasn't Nia who was the messenger, the Anti-Spiral messenger wouldn't have had feelings for Simon the Digger (incidentally, Simon was so powerful a pilot because spiral power coincided with his digging ability - it's what he's best at applied in an unconventional manner) and the world would have ended with the Chou Ginga Dai Gurren crashing into the planet.

[DmonHiro]

I can't belive I got Gainax'd AGAIN. I was a fool to think they could pull off a goon end. I mean come on...the whole god-damed show was about making the impossible possible, and they end it like THAT?

[Yesmilord]

Bittersweet is fine for this anime IMO. It was never a perfectly happy one to begin with. Sure there are several scenes that are hilarious, ridiculous, or larger than life, but the fact is even the greatest heroes aren't invincible and nothing can ever be perfect. Kamina's death is testament to this.

The anime is about, as stated in every freaking intro, a boy and his destiny. Notice how the narration changes each time as he grows, starting with a boy who has yet to discover his destiny all the way to one who rips a hole in the universe. GAINAX took the romance and decided to do something very smart with it: make it complementary. You don't want something mushy or easily reaching the heart to overpower the true message of this anime. The reason I feel that the anime is epic beyond proportion is the fact that it hammers, relentlessly, its morals into your head. Believe in yourself! Piece the heavens with your drill!

You'll note black and white differences between how Simon dealt with Kamina's death and Nia's death. This is a story about moving forward with all your might and the message is absolutely crystal clear.


Oh yea, I might be thinking too much about it, but note how very similar Yoko and Simon's character pathlines are. When she chucks the ring back at him in the end, I almost took it as a little consolation token of some sort for Simon. Anyone else think the same?

[musashiken]

Originally Posted by 7Th

If nothing else musashiken you should be happy at the depiction of Nia during the episode, as they "got" her beautifully.

Well yeah, I was touched by Nia and Simon sitting together in the cockpit ala Vandread (as I predicted). All those scenes of them hugging together in the cockpit put tears in my eyes. And Coco Jii finally speaking his first lines in the whole show when Nia returned to Earth. Nia in the wedding dress was oh so breath-taking. I was wiping tears from my eyes when suddenly NIA JUST STARTED TO FUCKING DISAPPEAR. What the fuck just happened??? And it's already over 3/4 of the episode!
If she had to disappear, disappear right after the battle damnit! Why wait till the last minute?? At least Nono and Ayanami Rei and Mahoro went off with a bang, but Nia just had to wait until she said "I do" before she packs up and leave? What the hell? Why torment me with such crap? If you got so much time to prepare for the wedding, why not go for some medical checkup while you're at it?

Bah whatever I'm ranting too much. Think I'll go cool myself. It's not like I don't understand the beauty and nobleness and "realness" of this bittersweet ending... I'm just still not prepared to accept it, to appreciate it yet. Come one week, and I'll probably be sprouting "Oh Nia, you died so beautifully..." or "I'll miss you Nia". But not now, not now.

[Jasjas]

Uhmmm just something off topic, did the writer forget to slot in the plot of the begining of the episode 1? where simon and bouta in human form (i presumed) were fighting with all the anti-spirals yet at the end i just see only 1?

[CSakuraS]

Originally Posted by musashiken

Well yeah, I was touched by Nia and Simon sitting together in the cockpit ala Vandread (as I predicted). All those scenes of them hugging together in the cockpit put tears in my eyes. And Coco Jii finally speaking his first lines in the whole show when Nia returned to Earth. Nia in the wedding dress was oh so breath-taking. I was wiping tears from my eyes when suddenly NIA JUST STARTED TO FUCKING DISAPPEAR. What the fuck just happened??? And it's already over 3/4 of the episode!
If she had to disappear, disappear right after the battle damnit! Why wait till the last minute?? At least Nono and Ayanami Rei and Mahoro went off with a bang, but Nia just had to wait until she said "I do" before she packs up and leave? What the hell? Why torment me with such crap? If you got so much time to prepare for the wedding, why not go for some medical checkup while you're at it?

Bah whatever I'm ranting too much. Think I'll go cool myself. It's not like I don't understand the beauty and nobleness and "realness" of this bittersweet ending... I'm just still not prepared to accept it, to appreciate it yet. Come one week, and I'll probably be sprouting "Oh Nia, you died so beautifully..." or "I'll miss you Nia". But not now, not now.

The way I see it, Nia was already dead once they defeated the Anti-Spiral; after that she was only holding on through sheer will, so to try and 'fix' her would be the same as bringing back the dead. I'm glad that she was able to stay alive up to that point because she was able to return to Earth and marry Simon, leaving the world the happiest that she's ever been.

Nia is my second favorite character in this series (right behind Simon), and while it breaks my heart that they weren't able to be together forever, I'm also glad that she left happy.

[DmonHiro]

I would have been WAY happier if she didn't leave at all. Come on! They just defeted a god........making Nia human could not have been harder

[PiPiRu]

Truly amazing epic show. I haven't seen a recent show that's worked me up so much in awhile.