Learning Japanese

[krysinello]

I probably wont worry about those tests though, until I want to go to Japan. The study hours are pretty high though, is the 900 or so hours a build up from the previous levels or a build up from the previous levels?

[WanderingKnight]

I'm planning on skipping levels and taking the level 3 test this year (at my current study level I'm supposed to go for 4, but in fact I'm far more advanced than what they're currently teaching me. I asked to be raised one level up but the coordinator of the courses denied my request--he's kind of closed-minded and doesn't really believe that I'm ready for skipping grades ).

[krysinello]

Well you might benefit from doing the level 4 test, mainly because it will help set it in for life by giving you practice at the basics.

[Ledgem]

I don't know... I probably could have taken the level 3 test after three semesters' worth of Japanese and done decently well. As it was, I took it with a foundation of four semesters, and after not having used my Japanese in half a year; I was incredibly rusty, and my percentage was lower than I expected (70's), but it was still passing. The semester numbers don't really mean too much unless you went to the same university as me, though; all programs go at different rates.

[Syaoran]

What's the difference between the JLPT Kanji Test and the Nihon Kanji Nōryoku Kentei Shiken ?
That last test has 10 levels. I did one of the easier levels for fun ^^' Higher levels would be exaggerated as I studied 350 kanji actively this year and more of them in a passive way. Adding too much wouldn't be very useful imo, making it easier to mix them.
The cool thing is that you get a nice calligraphed certificate from the Embassy when you pass it \(^^)/

[WanderingKnight]

What's the difference between the JLPT Kanji Test and the Nihon Kanji Nōryoku Kentei Shiken ?

What? I thought they were the same thing...

Well, actually the only one I heard about is the Nihon Kanji Nourioku Shiken (without the Kentei).

[Mueti]

Originally Posted by Syaoran

What's the difference between the JLPT Kanji Test and the Nihon Kanji Nōryoku Kentei Shiken ?
That last test has 10 levels.

I'm not sure about the JLPT Kanji Test, is it some variation of the JLPT specifically testing Kanji?
Anyway, the Nihon Kanji Nōryoku Kentei Shiken is a Kanji test where you have to be able to not only read but also write the Kanji. At the most difficult level you have to know 6000 of them.

[WanderingKnight]

Oh, forget about what I said, I meant the plain "Nihongo Nouryoku Shiken". Stupid me.

[Syaoran]

Ooooh O_O
And the JLPT doesn't require you to write them!?

I liked the test I did ^^
Gonna try another level next year

My only problem was vocabulary, and I had to guess using the onyomi & kunyomi for a fair amount of it >_<

[Ledgem]

JLPT was 100% multiple choice. If it wasn't, I wouldn't have passed, for certain. Reading kanji fades relatively slowly from your mind, but writing disappears very quickly. Regardless, the kanji identification was pretty trippy. It wasn't made up of very differently characters, but out of five choices, perhaps two different characters, and then the differences between the characters would be placement of things within the character (whether lines were above or below; whether they went from upper left to lower right, or upper right to lower left; and so on). It's not the hardest multiple choice I've ever taken in my life, but it comes close. You still need to know your stuff.

[krysinello]

I have memorised all the hiragana and am working on the katakana. I want to know if you like the direction I'm taking?

Learn the writings of hiragana and katakana

Learn language grammer and structure, use of particles and pretenses etc

Practice by using a hiragana and katakana random generated and play Japanese Pokemon to learn to read the sounds more efficiently

Learn level 4 Kanji in addition to increasing my Japanese vocab

Get to level 3 Kanji and start translating pages of Novels and websites for practice, aswell as increase my Vocab.

Thats my plan anyways. What do you think of it. My plan is also to use as little Romaji as possible.

[FatPianoBoy]

Originally Posted by krysinello

I have memorised all the hiragana and am working on the katakana. I want to know if you like the direction I'm taking?

Learn the writings of hiragana and katakana

Learn language grammer and structure, use of particles and pretenses etc

Practice by using a hiragana and katakana random generated and play Japanese Pokemon to learn to read the sounds more efficiently

Learn level 4 Kanji in addition to increasing my Japanese vocab

Get to level 3 Kanji and start translating pages of Novels and websites for practice, aswell as increase my Vocab.

Thats my plan anyways. What do you think of it. My plan is also to use as little Romaji as possible.

Sounds brilliant.
Remember to keep a good balance between grammar and vocabulary. Words are useless if you can't make sentences with them, but grammar is useless if you don't have the right words to stick in there.

[Potatochobit]

unless u plan to write in japanese trying to obtain an in-depth knowledge of kanji is not worthwhile. whats more important is to learn how to look up kanji using multi radicals in a dictionary. of course you still need to learn lots and lots of kanji, but learning words should be a priority that you can associate with those kanji. besides if u use a JP word processor just press the space bar :3

everyone looks down on romaji, in my opinion that's foolish. almost the entire world uses english stroke keyboards. I would guess a huge percent of people in japan use english based keyboards as well.

[WanderingKnight]

everyone looks down on romaji, in my opinion that's foolish. almost the entire world uses english stroke keyboards. I would guess a huge percent of people in japan use english based keyboards as well.

Of course, you can't learn kana without knowing romaji properly. The thing is, if you get stuck with reading romaji, you're never going to get accustomed to the language. Once I got used to kana and kanji, reading romaji became a pain in the ass.

[krysinello]

I still am using Romaji to kinda learn the symbols, I have known Romaji since got knows when so I am trying to use it as little as possible atm. The site I am using to practice involves you to type the Romaji equivalent and to type in Japanese I need to use Romaji so thats the only practice I think I should need.

I am not really learning to speak too much of it, just to read but I still need to increase my 3 year old vocabulary.(probably not even at a 3 year old level :P) I'll also have to check the Kanji by radical dictionary methods but that seems long and painful in actually trying to read then in just learning the basics of it. Learning the basics should give me and edge anyways.

[WanderingKnight]

I'll also have to check the Kanji by radical dictionary methods but that seems long and painful in actually trying to read then in just learning the basics of it.

If you just want to look up kanji, you'd be better off using Microsoft's IME pad (supposing you're using Windows XP) and drawing the character you want to look up. You'd need to know the stroke order, though. The IME pad comes included with the Japanese language support.

[krysinello]

Oh yeah I forgot about that, ti would work. I might try my hands at translating a couple of lines from a novel cover, see how I go.

EDIT: I tried translating 千鳥手をつなごう and well, I managed to get "Chidori te wotsunagou from it, well te is hand and Chidori the person. I am having trouble finding out what wotsunagou is though. Wotsu is used in "Hold and office" but can't find anything for nagou or even gou is. The phrase is meant to turn out like "Chidori, lets hold hands", so I suppose apart of translating is the assumption that wotsunagou could mea n in that sentence "to hold". Am I right in thinking that?

[FatPianoBoy]

Originally Posted by krysinello

Oh yeah I forgot about that, ti would work. I might try my hands at translating a couple of lines from a novel cover, see how I go.

EDIT: I tried translating 千鳥手をつなごう and well, I managed to get "Chidori te wotsunagou from it, well te is hand and Chidori the person. I am having trouble finding out what wotsunagou is though. Wotsu is used in "Hold and office" but can't find anything for nagou or even gou is. The phrase is meant to turn out like "Chidori, lets hold hands", so I suppose apart of translating is the assumption that wotsunagou could mea n in that sentence "to hold". Am I right in thinking that?

This is why I don't romaaji: put a space in the wrong spot, and you'll confuse people.
を (wo) is no longer used in words. It's sole function is a particle which marks the direct object of a sentence (in this case, Chidori is the one being 'tsunagou'ed). 'tsunagou' is the volitional form of 'tsunagu,' which can mean a few different things: to tie, to fasten, to connect, to transfer (a phone call). So, this sentence would likely mean "Let's tie up Chidori's hands." Without context, that's the best I can do

[krysinello]

oh, forgot wo was a particle, still learning them. I don't think it would mean that, considering the picture that goes with it. I'll say that a more real translation would be "Chidori hands lets connect" or something or put into proper english grammer, "Chidori, lets connect hands" and put into what a normal person would say, "Chidori, lets hold hands." I see now thank you. Now I will translate the next line as best as I can to see how I do, just need to remember particles .

[Nagato]

Originally Posted by krysinello

EDIT: I tried translating 千鳥手をつなごう and well, I managed to get "Chidori te wotsunagou from it, well te is hand and Chidori the person. I am having trouble finding out what wotsunagou is though. Wotsu is used in "Hold and office" but can't find anything for nagou or even gou is. The phrase is meant to turn out like "Chidori, lets hold hands", so I suppose apart of translating is the assumption that wotsunagou could mea n in that sentence "to hold". Am I right in thinking that?

Yup, FatPianoBoy got the function of wo right. But I think it applies to hands (their hands) instead of Chidori or Chidori's hands. Well, this is maybe a little confusing because I myself sometimes found in the Japanese text, comma is not placed when actually it's needed there, and it's pretty common. I don't know much about the formal writing in Japanese, though.

千鳥、手をつなごう。
I hope it's more clearer now.
like FatPianoBoy said, tsunagu means to join or to connect two or more objects.
and つなごう came from つなぐ. I don't know what that's form is called, maybe volitional form as FatPianoBoy said. It's function is to ask other to do the action together, "to joint, or to hold", in this case.
So it literally means, "Chidori, let's hold hands".

I can't remember properly, but I think I learned this grammar at level 4 of JLPT course.