Code Geass R2 - Episode 14 Discussion / Poll

[Methuselah]

For all we know, Charles believe destroying God will rid the world from lies or something like that. The cult being a potential threat to mankind is only some excuse Lelouch has thought up as he tries to massacre them for the death of Shirely. The cult lived in isolation and from outer contact so I don't see the danger at all. And we haven't yet know whos the more dangerous: Gods' lies or Charles.

Edit: Wha, you got to it first, Orga. XD Point taken *litterally

[wingdarkness]

Originally Posted by Nvis

I doubt he actually uses refrain, or else the Kallen fans & Suzaku haters will explode.

I hope he refrains her just because it'll be interesting to see what will become of that scenerio...Furthermore it would be nice to see Suzaku actually make a threat and actually follow thru on it for once...It's irritating when he talks big then shows mercy, but that's part of the conflict in his character...In the episode where Kallen got her upgrade he promised to off her and when the fighting started he was so passive-aggressive...Just for my own sanity I hope he cashes in on a threat that could make for some compelling television...I mean we're outta the Rivalz, Milly, and the gang portion of the show; lets keep the edge (I like the scenerio where he makes her use refrain then takes it away from her to force her to tell)...I mean it won't be worse than some Lacus Clyne look-a-like murdering Japanese people in broad-daylight with an AK will it ??

BTW nobody answered my question...Do any of us think Charles isn't even close to as bad as he's being portrayed?

[Var]

Originally Posted by Orga777

Key word there though? Underground. How many people in the world knew about Geass? Not that many. How many people really were effected by the Geass? Not that many. Until we know for sure what these 'gods' are that are threatened by the CUlt, they really were not that big a danger to the human race at large.

Quite a few people have been affected by the Cult through just Rolo's assassinations of important figures. And he is only one of the many assassins within their disposal. Its become quite evidant that, behind Charles, they have been pulling political strings as well.

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

BTW nobody answered my question...Do any of us think Charles isn't even close to as bad as he's being portrayed?

I'm almost certain of it.

[demon_god04]

Originally Posted by Methuselah

Wait... huh? Are you placing your laws of thinking into the world of code geass and not expanding your thoughts in to our actual reality. When I meant potential for volience, I meant that I could just kill you with a knife, blade, poison, throwing you in a meat grinder and grinding you into strips of delicious and cannibalistic breakfast - and.... [sorry, lost my chain of thought] In short, we all have the potential of doing something dangerous and that doesn't distance us from them (the kids) in similarities.

The world WOULD be better off; though that's a FACT that serves as an excuse to ignore the reality in their eyes and other morals. But heck, we all do that unconsciously and savagely so who gives a dush, right? XD But it's good to realize the facts and move on than to ignore it.

P.S: Well this is an operation to eliminate ALL that is the cult and everyone who represents it so if you don't consider that massacre/genocide, then I don't know what is. But the whole point of this arguement is you depicting that everybody is guilty and no buddy is innocent. It is not about if their methods are excusable or not.

What? When did I claim that what Lelouch did was not considered a massacre. I did not even say what he did was morally correct. Because it wasn't, and I have already stated earlier in this thread, or was it in the Suzaku thread, that Lelouch did what he did with the wrong reasons and method but the conclusion is that a very dangerous cult was wiped off the face of the earth.

You are right, we all have potential for violence, but it is abit different when the cult is training those kids to become unstable killers and god knows what else with supernatural powers.

Originally Posted by Orga777

http://i217.photobucket.com/albums/c...yItsTiff/8.jpg

Couldn;t resist...<.<

Pure epic win, screw the raptors I want the T-rex.

[JerryShaw]

I always saw Suzaku as a preacher with a bad history. You know, a nice guy who believes he had a good reason to kill his dad and sell out his country. But ever since Euphie's death, Suzaku really hasn't done much preaching but committed much more questionable things.

I personally think Suzaku would have been a better character if he stayed his old preachy self and tried to uphold moral standards. That Suzaku would annoy the hell out of me, but at least he stayed true to himself. I would have looked forward to the final climatic battle/conflict between the main character who acts without morality versus antagonist who believes he is morally upright.

In R2, we have Suzaku version 2.0: Doesn't preach much but threw his morality out the window. This version is less annoying and more understandable but does less to improve the quality of the story. The final conflict ends up being the protagonist who threw his moral beliefs from the very beginning to the antagonist who threw his moral beliefs out later.

I think the writers of Code Geass succumbed to numerous fans who hated Suzaku and changed the story so that it would be easier to hate him. But by doing so, Suzaku is no longer the same character most of us came to hate. It's quite disappointing, really.

[tbl]

Rolo is Murphy's Law waiting to happen.

[Methuselah]

@demon_god: LOL wow you mean you saved that quote for the full 8 minutes or so, even after I put a P.S to Var signature to it in order to separate my conversation? That was not directed at you. At least not the last paragraph

[DN24]

Just because Lelouch had intended to use them does not mean that that plan was a good plan. He was going to use fire to fight fire, but doing so only starts more fires. Shirley's death resulted in the better of two bad options overall but the reason for which it was done was not justifiable.

I think if LL somehow put them under his control like he did with the China Federation people would praise this as another brilliant victory of him but because he went into revenge mode and massacre them all,suddenly all of them deserve to die.
If i were a scientist I would jump at the chance to research something as interesting as the geass and I don't think I deserve to die because of that

[Var]

Originally Posted by Methuselah

@demon_god: LOL wow you mean you saved that quote for the full 8 minutes or so after I put a P.S to Var signature to it in order to separate my conversation? That was not directed at you. At least not the last paragraph

I never said I did not consider it a massacre or genocide. I simply said that, the situation is in now way similar to just wiping out a village because the armed men resisted.

[Methuselah]

That's every scientists' dream. XD Go science.

-Edit: But Var, did the men even resist? ^^ But anyways, go science!

[Satsuki Yuuhi Ramius]

My Comment for this eps

Spoiler:

Lelouch,Rollo,Suzaku all of you now become sick ><

[demon_god04]

Originally Posted by Methuselah

@demon_god: LOL wow you mean you saved that quote for the full 8 minutes or so, even after I put a P.S to Var signature to it in order to separate my conversation? That was not directed at you. At least not the last paragraph

I left in the middle of typing so sue me. -.-

[Orga777]

Originally Posted by Var

I never said I did not consider it a massacre or genocide. I simply said that, the situation is in now way similar to just wiping out a village because the armed men resisted.

Actually... you are wrong to an extent. There were only four people that knows anything about the Geass in that 'battle' (or slaughter.) Lelouch, C.C., Rolo and Jeremiah. The regular troops had doubts about what they were doing and even said they were no better than Britannia (which they really weren't.) Lelouch can't risk saying anything about it, and the others definitely won't say anything about it, so what about his troops that he ordered to kill a bunch of unarmed civilians that were not even fighting back?

[Var]

Originally Posted by Orga777

Actually... you are wrong to an extent. There were only four people that knows anything about the Geass in that 'battle' (or slaughter.) Lelouch, C.C., Rolo and Jeremiah. The regular troops had doubts about what they were doing and even said they were no better than Britannia (which they really weren't.) Lelouch can't risk saying anything about it, and the others definitely won't say anything about it, so what about his troops that he ordered to kill a bunch of unarmed civilians that were not even fighting back?

What about it? They were told the facility was highly dangerous, which it was, and that experiments were being carried out within to create super soliders. What more do they need? Proof? The ones that doubted it and found those kids got their proof. Which is where my point stems from, everyone in that place was a danger and had to be killed if the mission was to succeed.

[Methuselah]

But I believe the whole conversation was about not putting the definition of guilty, potential for danger, and the innocent in separate boxes. Boy we are going in circles. Case closed for me. XD

[Orga777]

Originally Posted by Var

What about it? They were told the facility was highly dangerous, which it was, and that experiments were being carried out within to create super soliders. What more do they need? Proof? The ones that doubted it and found those kids got their proof. Which is where my point stems from, everyone in that place was a danger and had to be killed if the mission was to succeed.

You see, I have to disagree completely here. What Lelouch was doing is not any different than what Britannia is doing in the long run. Which is the whole point. If you say Lelouch is justified in the killings, then Cornelia was too. She ordered a massacre to bring out Zero and end him, and knew that the area was possibly harboring terrorists. Hell, you would even have to say CLOVIS was in the right too because he pretty much wanted to prevent the Geass from getting out in the first place. It is a nasty plateau to walk on. Genocide is never justified.

[Var]

Originally Posted by Orga777

You seem I have to disagree completely here. What Lelouch was doing is not any different than what Britannia is doing in the long run. Which is the whole point. If you say Lelouch is justified in the killings, then Cornelia was too. She ordered a massacre to bring out Zero and end him, and knew that the area was possibly harboring terrorists. Hell, you would even have to say CLOVIS was in the right too because he pretty much wanted to prevent the Geass from getting out in the first place. It is a nasty plateau to walk on. Genocide is never justified.

I never said it was justified, I said that it was neccessary for the operation to succeed. I believe I even went out of my way to say that what Lelouch was doing was unjustifiable.

Genocide is unjustifiable, and yet it has been justified in the past. American's justified the genocide of the Native Americans, Japanese justified the slaughter of Chinese, and so on and so forth. We do not deem it justifiable, but others did.

[Orga777]

Originally Posted by Var

I never said it was justified, I said that it was neccessary for the operation to succeed. I believe I even went out of my way to say that what Lelouch was doing was unjustifiable.

Ah, alright. I think I missed that part. My point still has to stand though.

Genocide is unjustifiable, and yet it has been justified in the past. American's justified the genocide of the Native Americans, Japanese justified the slaughter of Chinese, and so on and so forth. We do not deem it justifiable, but others did.

That doesn't mean it should happen though. Which is the point.

[Methuselah]

To the argumenteers (not a word)

I think the point is it's not our damned buisness to decide. So watch the anime. (I bet you are wondering why I even bothered typing up the arguement from the start... XD Well this is me trying to be baddass, stubborn, and a complete bitch like I typed up in page 42.)

[Var]

Originally Posted by Orga777

That doesn't mean it should happen though. Which is the point.

Name twenty well known (as in world impacting/changing) scientific breakthroughs that have not involved a genocide, massacre, or overall annihilation of a group of people. This can be applied to empires, political or religious movements, and so on.

Change in and of itself requires a massacre, be it of people or ideals. More likely than not it is usually both.

This is getting pointlessly philosophical.