Danganronpa - Episode 8 Discussion / Poll

[Sute443]

Originally Posted by jeroz

Yes, let's discredit Fujisaki's title as the genius programmer because god forbids a trap to be smart

For the record, I don't care that Fujisaki was a trap, and I don't appreciate the implication.

Originally Posted by Klashikari

And just for the record: you learn with the social links that Chihiro was already working on a AI prior the current events, although he wasn't completely done with it.

And he wouldn't have had any of his prior work with him in the school. And we're supposed to believe that he was able to reconstruct all of his work and finish it in the (I believe someone said in a past thread) three days he had between finding the laptop and dying? Genius is one thing, but that's either bad writing or conspiracy.

Originally Posted by Klashikari

Suspension of disbelief notwithstanding, it is within the character and plot setup to have Alter Ego created this way. Past that, it is up to people to think if it was bugged by Monokuma to begin with or not. Although it doesn't make sense for Monokuma to blatantly make an AI suggesting it should be connected to the network.

It makes perfect sense to do so if Monokuma wanted them to access the network. What wouldn't make sense would be clearing out a hidden room and leaving only the network cable if the mastermind didn't want them to be able to connect to the network.

If Alter-Ego was set up by the mastermind, then everything AE has done so far, the pictures, the info on the principle, the info about the terrible day, has been handed out because the mastermind wanted them to have that info. Why? Maybe it's to amuse himself, maybe it's to keep the captives occupied so that they don't manage to find out something that was supposed to be an actual secret, maybe it's for some other reason. Having Alter-Ego ask to be connected to the network could just be the next stage in whatever the mastermind's plan is.

If you want to talk about not making sense, then it really, really doesn't make any sense for the mastermind to leave anything in the school that he/she didn't want the captives to have access to. If they aren't supposed to access the school's network, why give them a laptop, a network cable, and the computer genius necessary to repair the laptop? Computer genius dies too soon? Whoops! Well, here's an AI to fulfill his role!

Originally Posted by Solitaired

When even game players tell u likewise, I have no idea how you can still be doubtful on Alter Ego. If anything happens to him I hope you can give an apology. No ill intent here.

Because all the stuff involving Alter-Ego keeps finding new ways to break my suspension of disbelief. Every time I re-suspend my disbelief, new information knocks it back down. I prefer to believe there's some good writing in here and the game players are just playing Devil's Advocate.

[jeroz]

Once again you are seriously underestimating his capability. He set out to write that program in order to help decipher the info hidden in the laptop and managed to finish it before his demise, and you are just going to discredit his effort? Its said from the very start that the people here are highly talented in their own field. We saw him working on it before so it's not like its completely out of the blue either.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Sute443

And he wouldn't have had any of his prior work with him in the school. And we're supposed to believe that he was able to reconstruct all of his work and finish it in the (I believe someone said in a past thread) three days he had between finding the laptop and dying? Genius is one thing, but that's either bad writing or conspiracy.

I like your idea of Alter-Ego actually working for Monobear, though I have to agree with others that this seems pretty unlikely right now.

Also, I'm not sure why Chihiro creating Alter-Ego in three days is such a big deal here.

Science/Tech Genius-type characters in fiction very frequently pull off truly insane stuff. You ever watch Dexter's Laboratory? Or read a Fantastic Four or Superman comic?

It's best to just try to roll with this sort of thing in my opinion.

[Solitaired]

Definition of Super High School Level Talent : Imagine for yourself the amount of talent a gifted high school student should possess. Multiply it by 100 as it is difficult for most people to have an accurate imagination. Then further multiply it by 1000 for the Super High School Level Talent.

As a gamer, it is great to see people come out with a myriad of theories, even better when someone think of theories we haven't thought about. It is also awesome if someone can manage to guess the future plot twists. But if someone is stuck in a dead end and keeps walking continuously with their face crushed on the wall. That's not fun to watch.

[Dengar]

Originally Posted by Sute443

For the record, I don't care that Fujisaki was a trap, and I don't appreciate the implication.



And he wouldn't have had any of his prior work with him in the school. And we're supposed to believe that he was able to reconstruct all of his work and finish it in the (I believe someone said in a past thread) three days he had between finding the laptop and dying? Genius is one thing, but that's either bad writing or conspiracy.



It makes perfect sense to do so if Monokuma wanted them to access the network. What wouldn't make sense would be clearing out a hidden room and leaving only the network cable if the mastermind didn't want them to be able to connect to the network.

If Alter-Ego was set up by the mastermind, then everything AE has done so far, the pictures, the info on the principle, the info about the terrible day, has been handed out because the mastermind wanted them to have that info. Why? Maybe it's to amuse himself, maybe it's to keep the captives occupied so that they don't manage to find out something that was supposed to be an actual secret, maybe it's for some other reason. Having Alter-Ego ask to be connected to the network could just be the next stage in whatever the mastermind's plan is.

If you want to talk about not making sense, then it really, really doesn't make any sense for the mastermind to leave anything in the school that he/she didn't want the captives to have access to. If they aren't supposed to access the school's network, why give them a laptop, a network cable, and the computer genius necessary to repair the laptop? Computer genius dies too soon? Whoops! Well, here's an AI to fulfill his role!



Because all the stuff involving Alter-Ego keeps finding new ways to break my suspension of disbelief. Every time I re-suspend my disbelief, new information knocks it back down. I prefer to believe there's some good writing in here and the game players are just playing Devil's Advocate.

I find it very peculiar that you haven't said a single word about Oogami's ridiculous fighting skills, or Kuwata's improbable pitching skills, or Yamada's ability to construct a perfect Justice Robo costume with associated accessories overnight, and that's to say nothing about the highly unrealistic and over-the-top executions, but you are hung-up by the capabilities of a genius programmer to the point of obsession? Seriously, it's probably the least improbable thing out here.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by jeroz

Those bottles, hmmmm. I figure that the head injury is caused by the shattered bottle, but what caused the second one? Doubt you could smash her head two times without her stopping you...

She was probably poisoned before being hit. (As indicated by the blood vomit.)

[Frailty]

Originally Posted by Kanon

That was hilarious. I don't get how they managed to fuck this up. Not including the explanation of why it was fine to force the door open is fine, but adding a lock? What were they thinking? Naegi should have punished in the anime, there's no way around it. This makes Monokuma seem incompetent, and downplays something I can't talk about yet.

Well, remember Chihiro's case? Monokuma abolished the rule of the opposite sex entering the changing room for the other for the purpose of investigation since a murder has occurred.

That might have been the case here as well

To add things to my point... Remember in that case, Byakuya was the one that changed Chihiro's position to the way Genocider Sho positions her victims. Byakuya would've been killed by Monokuma since he entered the girl's locker room if the rule wasn't overlooked

[Dengar]

The rule wasn't "opposite sex can't enter eachother's changing rooms", the rule was "you cannot lend your ID to someone else". No rules were broken. Whereas in the anime it blatantly was. It is forbidden to break down a locked door. The door was locked, and the door was broken down. It is clearly an oversight on the animators' part and really shouldn't be viewed as anything else.

[Frailty]

Originally Posted by Dengar

The rule wasn't "opposite sex can't enter eachother's changing rooms", the rule was "you cannot lend your ID to someone else". No rules were broken. Whereas in the anime it blatantly was. It is forbidden to break down a locked door. The door was locked, and the door was broken down. It is clearly an oversight on the animators' part and really shouldn't be viewed as anything else.

that rule was created so that people would not lend each other's handbook to enter the opposite sex's locker room

I do agree that the lock was an error on the animation's part. I'm just stating a a point that can be used as an alibi on the animator's part

[jeroz]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

She was probably poisoned before being hit. (As indicated by the blood vomit.)

If she's already poisoned, why would anyone bother to hit her again.
Unless its to distract from the real cause of death?
I am imagining the culprit watching the body slumber down and just decide to wack the back of the head couple of times for good measure can never be too safe I guess?

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by Sute443

If you want to talk about not making sense, then it really, really doesn't make any sense for the mastermind to leave anything in the school that he/she didn't want the captives to have access to. If they aren't supposed to access the school's network, why give them a laptop, a network cable, and the computer genius necessary to repair the laptop? Computer genius dies too soon? Whoops! Well, here's an AI to fulfill his role!

1) The hidden room was most likely not a room the mastermind knew, otherwise the documents would have been ransacked immediately. The fact a masked person was there instead of Monokuma pretty much tell the mastermind had to take drastic measure to deal with the situation (be it themselves or an accomplice).

2) If you hadn't realize, access to network was completely absent except in that very room the mastermind didn't know.

3) Remember that Makoto was still in the room while the masked person had to take all the documents. There was no guarantee for them that Makoto will remain unconscious while they are doing so, and they had to deal with many shelves. So it isn't far fetched to think they were too busy and in a hurry to check all the drawers and take care of the network cable.

[orion]

I vote suicide as I really can't imagine anyone strong enough to take her down and poison isn't instantaneous. All of them are not strong enough to do the job even combined. Plus, Genocyber doesn't attack girls and Touko is a wimp. Yasuhiro is a wimp. Byakuya wouldn't dirty himself doing something like that. He wants to solve the cases. Last, she had a smile on her face.

I think that she used cyanide as it's a popular poison and easy to make/drink if the crystals were in the chemistry lab.

http://safety.chemistry.unimelb.edu.au/cyanide.php

She created a locked room scenario, took dose, vomited, passed out and died.

http://www.health.ny.gov/environment...de_general.htm
http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/docs/81-123/pdfs/0522.pdf

Locked room also gives her the advantage of having the almond odor and any poisonous gas byproducts dissipate before the others enter the room.

[Sute443]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I like your idea of Alter-Ego actually working for Monobear, though I have to agree with others that this seems pretty unlikely right now.

Also, I'm not sure why Chihiro creating Alter-Ego in three days is such a big deal here.

Science/Tech Genius-type characters in fiction very frequently pull off truly insane stuff. You ever watch Dexter's Laboratory? Or read a Fantastic Four or Superman comic?

The three days part isn't actually that big of a deal. It's just that when it's put together with everything else about Alter-Ego (the mastermind leaving information that the students aren't supposed to know about on the laptop, the network cord mysteriously being the only thing left in the hidden room) that it becomes annoying.

Originally Posted by Triple_R

It's best to just try to roll with this sort of thing in my opinion.

I can understand that, but in my opinion we anime-only viewers should be able to speculate freely, even if our theories are ultimately wrong.

Originally Posted by Solitaired

As a gamer, it is great to see people come out with a myriad of theories, even better when someone think of theories we haven't thought about. It is also awesome if someone can manage to guess the future plot twists. But if someone is stuck in a dead end and keeps walking continuously with their face crushed on the wall. That's not fun to watch.

As an anime-only viewer, I quite enjoy coming up with my own theories, even if they are crippled by information being left out of the anime. But when someone from the gaming side comes out and posts spoilers (such as "I'm a gamer; you are wrong!") to ruin a theory, that's not fun.

Originally Posted by Dengar

I find it very peculiar that you haven't said a single word about Oogami's ridiculous fighting skills, or Kuwata's improbable pitching skills, or Yamada's ability to construct a perfect Justice Robo costume with associated accessories overnight, and that's to say nothing about the highly unrealistic and over-the-top executions, but you are hung-up by the capabilities of a genius programmer to the point of obsession? Seriously, it's probably the least improbable thing out here.

Oogami's fighting skills are not plot-relevant. Kuwata being able to hit a button with a crystal ball isn't that improbable. Justice Robo had a living person confirm its origins within the anime. Furthermore, none of those things had an ongoing influence in the series. And I only brought AE up here because it could explain something that looks like it could be an otherwise significant plothole.

Originally Posted by Klashikari

1) The hidden room was most likely not a room the mastermind knew, otherwise the documents would have been ransacked immediately. The fact a masked person was there instead of Monokuma pretty much tell the mastermind had to take drastic measure to deal with the situation (be it themselves or an accomplice).

2) If you hadn't realize, access to network was completely absent except in that very room the mastermind didn't know.

We're supposed to believe that the mastermind had the time to cover the walls with iron plates, install all those security cameras, set up a system to allow the cafeteria to be restocked without letting the captives out, and put all the police files regarding Genocider Sho into the library, but he didn't find a hidden room while looking at the school's blueprints? We're seriously supposed to believe that?

Originally Posted by Klashikari

3) Remember that Makoto was still in the room while the masked person had to take all the documents. There was no guarantee for them that Makoto will remain unconscious while they are doing so, and they had to deal with many shelves. So it isn't far fetched to think they were too busy and in a hurry to check all the drawers and take care of the network cable.

Well, if we're already treating the idea that the mastermind didn't know about the room seriously, I suppose the idea that the drawers would be otherwise empty doesn't stretch credibility too much further.

[broken270]

Isn't suicide out of the question because Monokuma said earlier that to die via suicide would be boring to his eyes and defeats the purpose of why he is doing this; therefore, he'd stop that person from doing so? Suicide would have meant that either Sakura caused the two blunt attacks on herself or intake something (like the poison she found on the lab), pushed the chair to the door herself, and waited until the effects of either the blunt trauma or the poison to eventually take effect before dying. The attacks had to be done by someone, and a suicide-murder theory would make sense if Sakura wanted the person to kill her to get out of here, which would lead the main suspect to be Aoi, assuming Sakura blocked the room up by her own accord.

[Dengar]

Originally Posted by Sute443

Oogami's fighting skills are not plot-relevant. Kuwata being able to hit a button with a crystal ball isn't that improbable. Justice Robo had a living person confirm its origins within the anime. Furthermore, none of those things had an ongoing influence in the series. And I only brought AE up here because it could explain something that looks like it could be an otherwise significant plothole.

I disagree about Oogami's fighting skills being not-plot-relevant, nor do I think that plot-relevance is even important when applying your willing suspension of disbelief. I also belief that Kuwata's pitching skills are improbable (Note I didn't say "impossible"). I'm not sure what "Justice Robo's origins" have to do with the fact that Yamada was able to build that entire costume with all associated props in just one night.

Also, there's no guarantee that the mastermind is perfect like you think he is, but that's not really important.

I'm not really challenging all of your theories. Just the part where you say it's impossible for Fujisaki, who is a genius programmer and a leading developer on self-developing AI's, making a self-developing AI.

[White Manju Bun]

Originally Posted by broken270

Isn't suicide out of the question because Monokuma said earlier that to die via suicide would be boring to his eyes and defeats the purpose of why he is doing this; therefore, he'd stop that person from doing so?

True but Sakura did state she was going at end this. A suicide could be her way at getting back at the Mastermind for doing this. I know PsychoBear seems to appear where ever he wants but I dont think he could get into the locked room. (but who really knows what he's capable of).

The issue is, in my eyes, no one really has reason enough to kill her. Togami was mad about the mole issue but there's no way he'd be able to take Sakura down and like it's been said before, he's not going to dirty himself doing this. Genocider, out of the question. Hagakure, too much of a wimp. Naegi, obviously not. I can't see Kirigiri killing her so that leaves Aoi who was her best friend.

Even if Aoi is mad for Sakura not telling her the truth, I can't see her helping Sakura take part in this, nor even carry it out herself. She seemed generally shocked when the determined Sakura was dead.

So either suicide or 16th student. Im really wondering who the trial is going to play out.

[Sute443]

Originally Posted by Dengar

I disagree about Oogami's fighting skills being not-plot-relevant, nor do I think that plot-relevance is even important when applying your willing suspension of disbelief. I also belief that Kuwata's pitching skills are improbable (Note I didn't say "impossible"). I'm not sure what "Justice Robo's origins" have to do with the fact that Yamada was able to build that entire costume with all associated props in just one night.

When I watch this show, I divide information into three groups: stuff that seems to be there to add character, information about the murders, and information about the school/kidnappings. My ability to suspend disbelief varies according to those categories, being high, moderate, low, respectively. Since Sakura's fighting skills were never used in a conclusive manner, they fall into the first category for me (especially if the speculation that she let Aoi kill her is correct). Kuwata's pitching and Yamada's Justice Robo fall into the second category, while AE falls into the third.

The important part about Justice Robo's origins is that they were confirmed by an independent character who would know of them, therefore I can believe them. In contrast, the only character who has said anything about AE's origins is AE. I think there's a big difference there.

Originally Posted by Dengar

Also, there's no guarantee that the mastermind is perfect like you think he is, but that's not really important.

True. But if there are things in the school that the mastermind didn't want to be there, that raises the question of who put them there.

Originally Posted by Dengar

I'm not really challenging all of your theories. Just the part where you say it's impossible for Fujisaki, who is a genius programmer and a leading developer on self-developing AI's, making a self-developing AI.

I believe I admitted in a previous thread that Fujisaki probably is meant to have made Alter-Ego, but that I prefer my own version of events.

[ookamigirl]

The story moves on to the 4th floor.
Things are getting more and more interesting.
Looks like the hint from the previous episode came true.
It didn't take long for them to get all weird.
Wonder if Alter Ego's suggestion could actually help them..
I actually felt sorry for the latest victim.

[orion]

Originally Posted by broken270

Isn't suicide out of the question because Monokuma said earlier that to die via suicide would be boring to his eyes and defeats the purpose of why he is doing this; therefore, he'd stop that person from doing so? Suicide would have meant that either Sakura caused the two blunt attacks on herself or intake something (like the poison she found on the lab), pushed the chair to the door herself, and waited until the effects of either the blunt trauma or the poison to eventually take effect before dying. The attacks had to be done by someone, and a suicide-murder theory would make sense if Sakura wanted the person to kill her to get out of here, which would lead the main suspect to be Aoi, assuming Sakura blocked the room up by her own accord.

Perhaps the head trauma was added to hide the suicide. If they guess wrong, then its game over and everybody dies.

A suicide forum states that it takes seconds for the gas, minutes for the salts on an empty stomach and hours using the salts on a full stomach. And... apparently you can lose consciousness in 5 minutes, die in up to 45 minutes.

I doubt that Aoi is the type to kill her friend. She looked genuinely upset.

[codeRED]

Originally Posted by orion

I vote suicide as I really can't imagine anyone strong enough to take her down and poison isn't instantaneous. All of them are not strong enough to do the job even combined. Plus, Genocyber doesn't attack girls and Touko is a wimp. Yasuhiro is a wimp. Byakuya wouldn't dirty himself doing something like that. He wants to solve the cases. Last, she had a smile on her face.

I think that she used cyanide as it's a popular poison and easy to make/drink if the crystals were in the chemistry lab.

http://safety.chemistry.unimelb.edu.au/cyanide.php

She created a locked room scenario, took dose, vomited, passed out and died.

http://www.health.ny.gov/environment...de_general.htm
http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/docs/81-123/pdfs/0522.pdf

Locked room also gives her the advantage of having the almond odor and any poisonous gas byproducts dissipate before the others enter the room.

Suicide based on what? The first trial shows anyone is capable of trying to commit murder even if it seems as if they are incapable of doin it as in the case of Maizono.
What is the motive and purpose to kill herself? Where does the evidence indicate that its a definitive suicide according to you. Maybe the killer poisoned her and bash her head as red herrings to create a diversion. Locked room means that the murderer is trying to create an alibi and not become a suspect. Its give the illusion that no way he can be in there and commit murder since there is no means to lock the place from the outside. So how does a locked room scenario which would indicate a murderer trying to create an alibi all of a sudden becomes a definitive scene of a suicide. Im kinda suspicious on how you came up with the idea of suicide.