To Aru Kagaku no Railgun S - Episode 22 Discussion / Poll

[Sumeragi]

I'll say this: Most of you are overestimating a person's capacity to act in such a situation. I doubt any one of us could have done better than Mikoto.

[kache]

Meh.
Meh.
Meh.

[Ilidsor]

Originally Posted by Shadrala

I think it was more than just the risk of losing the data for Mikoto. She's realised Nunotaba is also in a tight fix here. I think it's a way of her telling fish-eyes that she's made the right decisions (telling Febli about mikoto etc.) and that she's not afraid to sacrifice alot for the little girl. Obviously, she also doesn't want Nunotaba to get caught up in more conflict than necessary. It's just the kind of person she is.

A much better way of showing Shinobu that she made the right choice in trusting Misaka would be for her to beat up the bad guy and solve everythig right there. And what do you mean not get her caught up in conflict? There wouldn't have been a conflict. Misaka would have destroyed that guy in half a second. A level 5 vs an unarmed level 0 (a normal level 0 not like Touma) can only have one ending. Not to mention that Febri's life > Shinobu's feelings.

I'll say this: Most of you are overestimating a person's capacity to act in such a situation. I doubt any one of us could have done better than Mikoto.

I'm not claiming I could have. But Mikoto certainly could have. She's not some damsel in distress and this isn't her first tense situation. She could easily have thought this through, and she only didn't because of poor writing.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Sumeragi

I'll say this: Most of you are overestimating a person's capacity to act in such a situation. I doubt any one of us could have done better than Mikoto.

With Mikoto's powers? I'd have electrocuted the guy. Maybe it'd have destroyed the data in his hand. So what? It's not like her way did any better, and at least with mine negotiations would still be open.

Originally Posted by FlareKnight

The motivations for these guys is kind of sad. Hard to feel sorry for the poor geniuses that aren't getting as much attention as high level espers.

Especially since the geniuses are, in fact, the lifeblood of Academy City. The espers may be famous, but its advanced technology is what the city leverages for economic and political power.

[Shadrala]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

With Mikoto's powers? I'd have electrocuted the guy. Maybe it'd have destroyed the data in his hand. So what? It's not like her way did any better, and at least with mine negotiations would still be open.

What do you mean "so what"? If the data is destroyed, that's pointless because that's what Mikoto came there for- to save Febli. She didn't want to risk getting it destroyed. He may have been lying, he may not have been- she doesn't know. How was she supposed to know how "her way" would turn out? She's an electromaster, not a fortune teller.

[Sumeragi]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

With Mikoto's powers? I'd have electrocuted the guy. Maybe it'd have destroyed the data in his hand. So what? It's not like her way did any better, and at least with mine negotiations would still be open.

Exactly why you would fail even more miserably than Mikoto. Negotiations would be completely over with and there would be no hope at all.


There is a reason why hostage situations require expert education and training.

[Veviticus]

Originally Posted by Sumeragi

Stop repeating things that contradict what happened in the actual scenes.

How is it contradicting? The only thing contradicting here is how the fillers show us how long misaka took to think during the fight with the robot when misaka has showed us time and time again how fast she can react to dangerous situations.

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by Shadrala

What do you mean "so what"? If the data is destroyed, that's pointless because that's what Mikoto came there for- to save Febli. She didn't want to risk getting it destroyed. He may have been lying, he may not have been- she doesn't know. How was she supposed to know how "her way" would turn out? She's an electromaster, not a fortune teller.

if the data is destroy and there is no backup. torture it out of him and the others.

[Shadrala]

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

if the data is destroy and there is no backup. torture it out of him and the others.

Now you're going out of Mikoto's character. That's something you might do (who knows? I don't know you) but that's not what Mikoto would do. Remember back in Sisters Arc? She wasn't even willing to fully torture Frenda when she had her cornered.

[Ashaman]

Originally Posted by Sumeragi

Exactly why you would fail even more miserably than Mikoto. Negotiations would be completely over with and there would be no hope at all.


There is a reason why hostage situations require expert education and training.

How would the negotiations be over when now you are the one with a hostage?

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by Shadrala

Now you're going out of Mikoto's character. That's something you might do (who knows? I don't know you) but that's not what Mikoto would do. Remember back in Sisters Arc? She wasn't even willing to fully torture Frenda when she had her cornered.

then bring him to Heaven Canceller and let him handle it.

And the Heaven Canceller's role in this arc is another piece of bad writing. In the Novels HC's is known as someone who can save anyone's life as long as they are even 0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 alive. Something to keep Febri alive would not be very difficult to someone like Heaven's Canceller.

[Ashaman]

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

then bring him to Heaven Canceller and let him handle it.

And the Heaven Canceller's role in this arc is another piece of bad writing.

I'm willing to let that one go - not technically human after all.

[Miraluka]

Originally Posted by Shadrala

Now you're going out of Mikoto's character. That's something you might do (who knows? I don't know you) but that's not what Mikoto would do. Remember back in Sisters Arc? She wasn't even willing to fully torture Frenda when she had her cornered.

Yet she did, its just she didn't consider the paralysis caused on her body at that time and now this time those geeks aren't mercenaries or trained people just amateurs so she can goe easy on them without having to worry.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Shadrala

What do you mean "so what"? If the data is destroyed, that's pointless because that's what Mikoto came there for- to save Febli.

If the data stick is destroyed, there are backups. Which he knows.

She didn't want to risk getting it destroyed. He may have been lying, he may not have been- she doesn't know. How was she supposed to know how "her way" would turn out? She's an electromaster, not a fortune teller.

She's not a fortune teller, so she doesn't know if the data really is in that stick, or if she can trust him. She could have guessed a bit better, though.

Originally Posted by Sumeragi

Exactly why you would fail even more miserably than Mikoto. Negotiations would be completely over with and there would be no hope at all.


There is a reason why hostage situations require expert education and training.

Negotiations are over when you lose your hold on the guy. As Mikoto did. And tell me, exactly, how one can fail more miserably than Mikoto short of putting a bullet in one's own head?

With my way, even if the data isn't in the stick, or it's destroyed, why, he'd have something I want - the poison neutralizer formula. And I'd have something he presumably want - his balls. And there's also the possibility of negotiating with a mind reading esper rather than a crazy guy.

As for "expert education and training", I'm pretty sure that one of the first, if not the very first, lessons is to not listen to Hollywood. Under no circumstances are you to drop your gun. Too bad Mikoto failed to figure that out.

Originally Posted by Shadrala

Now you're going out of Mikoto's character. That's something you might do (who knows? I don't know you) but that's not what Mikoto would do. Remember back in Sisters Arc? She wasn't even willing to fully torture Frenda when she had her cornered.

Spoiler for Toaru Majutsu no Index: Railgun SS2: Shopping Mall Demonstration:

She isn't actually above using psychological torture, if the stakes are high enough.

[Sumeragi]

Originally Posted by Anh_Minh

Negotiations are over when you lose your hold on the guy. As Mikoto did. And tell me, exactly, how one can fail more miserably than Mikoto short of putting a bullet in one's own head?

With my way, even if the data isn't in the stick, or it's destroyed, why, he'd have something I want - the poison neutralizer formula. And I'd have something he presumably want - his balls. And there's also the possibility of negotiating with a mind reading esper rather than a crazy guy.

As for "expert education and training", I'm pretty sure that one of the first, if not the very first, lessons is to not listen to Hollywood. Under no circumstances are you to drop your gun. Too bad Mikoto failed to figure that out.

At this point you're even worse than Hollywood, because you're clearly discussing things in a fantasy setting with no relevance to reality.


I'm out of this futile discussion.

[Jyang]

Somehow I feel like SnK Armin's quote fits quite well here....
"Everyone can make a choice after they have learned what it will result in. It is so easy to say we should have done it this way afterwards. But you can't know what your choice will result in before actually choosing.

Not really sure why a lot of people here are bashing Mikoto's decision. Sure, it's dumb to trust a evil scheming person. But how much does she really know about him? We only knew that they're like what they are because we've seen them in action. Mikoto has never met this guy before and she was given the chance to get exactly what she wanted [the antidote thingy]. I don't think it's that hard of a stretch that she's willing to sacrifice herself to get the antidote.

I think Mikoto was trying to take the easiest route without hurting anyone and losing the chance to cure Febli. Sure, beating the crap out of the guy who may have backup somewhere might be plausible, but seriously how much more effort do you have to put in to actually bash the guy, torture some info out of him [which Mikoto wouldn't really do], and then go get that backup plan which might end up being destroyed by the guy's comrades while she tries to get there.

And again, why are you guys expecting so much from a 14 year old girl [who just went through traumatic experiences as well]. And between the choice of:
1. Follow instructions and may have hope of getting the antidote and
2. Attack regardless, risk of destroying the antidote in the process [highly likely cuz of her powers OR the guy destroys it before she even gets to him], beating info out of him which could potentially be hard, having to go search for their backup in another building in which she has no idea where it is, fight more people that will be guarding it, and be pushed on a time limit cuz who knows if they destroyed that backup too.

[Sorry getting repetitive]

But yea, I think in a hostage situation [or at least Mikoto's situation], it's difficult to make the right decisions because you're short on time. Even so, she'll probably take that 10% [or whatever number] that the guy will actually GIVE it to her if she follows his instructions.

Anyway....just my 2 cents, take it with a grain of salt.

[Ilidsor]

Originally Posted by Jyang

Somehow I feel like SnK Armin's quote fits quite well here....
"Everyone can make a choice after they have learned what it will result in. It is so easy to say we should have done it this way afterwards. But you can't know what your choice will result in before actually choosing.

Again, I'm not saying that I could have made the smart decision. I'm a very panicky person. Misaka however is a genius level five whose been in dangerous situations numerous times with her and other lives on the line. There are a ton of occasions where she has had to make quick almost split-second decisions like this and has made the correct one.

Not really sure why a lot of people here are bashing Mikoto's decision. Sure, it's dumb to trust a evil scheming person. But how much does she really know about him? We only knew that they're like what they are because we've seen them in action. Mikoto has never met this guy before and she was given the chance to get exactly what she wanted [the antidote thingy]. I don't think it's that hard of a stretch that she's willing to sacrifice herself to get the antidote.

She was perfectly aware that he had tried to kill her before and that he didn't value Febri's life. Trusting him to deliver the antidote was absolutely ridiculous.

I think Mikoto was trying to take the easiest route without hurting anyone and losing the chance to cure Febli. Sure, beating the crap out of the guy who may have backup somewhere might be plausible, but seriously how much more effort do you have to put in to actually bash the guy, torture some info out of him [which Mikoto wouldn't really do], and then go get that backup plan which might end up being destroyed by the guy's comrades while she tries to get there.

Even ignoring how Misaka is a very red-blooded character and she always tries to solve her problems with violence, there's the fact that I mentioned above that she couldn't trust the guy. I mean for all she knew that thing was poison and she was about to get herself killed.

And again, why are you guys expecting so much from a 14 year old girl [who just went through traumatic experiences as well]. And between the choice of:
1. Follow instructions and may have hope of getting the antidote and
2. Attack regardless, risk of destroying the antidote in the process [highly likely cuz of her powers OR the guy destroys it before she even gets to him], beating info out of him which could potentially be hard, having to go search for their backup in another building in which she has no idea where it is, fight more people that will be guarding it, and be pushed on a time limit cuz who knows if they destroyed that backup too.

Again, Misaka is not a character that hates fighting. And more importantly she could have gotten the info from him without him breaking it in any number of ways. Don't forget how much control she has as a level five and how inventive with her powers she is.

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by Jyang

Somehow I feel like SnK Armin's quote fits quite well here....
"Everyone can make a choice after they have learned what it will result in. It is so easy to say we should have done it this way afterwards. But you can't know what your choice will result in before actually choosing.

Not really sure why a lot of people here are bashing Mikoto's decision. Sure, it's dumb to trust a evil scheming person. But how much does she really know about him?

quite a bit

1. he specially create a artificial human and consider it nothing more then a thing.
2. he is in the darkside of Academy City
3. he sent those robots to attack her and friends
4. he is holding a Febri's medicine as hostage.

Not a single one of the thing I listed is something done by decent human beings you can trust.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Sumeragi

Too bad you're even worse than Hollywood. I guess it's no use discussing with someone who clearly does not know what he is talking about.


I'm out of this futile discussion.

Ah, yes, your old standby of "I'm so obviously right, I don't need actual arguments".

Originally Posted by Jyang

Somehow I feel like SnK Armin's quote fits quite well here....
"Everyone can make a choice after they have learned what it will result in. It is so easy to say we should have done it this way afterwards. But you can't know what your choice will result in before actually choosing.

Not really sure why a lot of people here are bashing Mikoto's decision. Sure, it's dumb to trust a evil scheming person. But how much does she really know about him?

Two points:
- what she did is pretty much always dumb. You don't have to know the guy you're facing to make that conclusion.
- she knows he's already tried to murder Febri, and what kind of person does that?

We only knew that they're like what they are because we've seen them in action. Mikoto has never met this guy before and she was given the chance to get exactly what she wanted [the antidote thingy]. I don't think it's that hard of a stretch that she's willing to sacrifice herself to get the antidote.

But that's the thing. When it comes to chances, trusting a guy like him's honor is much riskier than trusting his self-preservation instinct. That would be the case even if... I was going to say, "even if he was a normal person", but as I said, no normal person would be in that position.

I think Mikoto was trying to take the easiest route without hurting anyone

And that shit's exactly why the doctor asked her about her resolve. Shame she thought merely being ready to get hurt was enough.

and losing the chance to cure Febli. Sure, beating the crap out of the guy who may have backup somewhere might be plausible, but seriously how much more effort do you have to put in to actually bash the guy, torture some info out of him [which Mikoto wouldn't really do], and then go get that backup plan which might end up being destroyed by the guy's comrades while she tries to get there.

Probably not much effort, actually. The guy looks like a wimp.

And again, why are you guys expecting so much from a 14 year old girl [who just went through traumatic experiences as well]. And between the choice of:
1. Follow instructions and may have hope of getting the antidote and

Instruction from an obviously evil guy. You'd think her "traumatic experiences" would have taught her not to trust evil scientists.

2. Attack regardless, risk of destroying the antidote in the process [highly likely cuz of her powers OR the guy destroys it before she even gets to him],

Not really that likely. For one thing, no chance at all if the data isn't in the stick. For another, she could probably put him down before he has time to do anything.

beating info out of him which could potentially be hard,

Well, if she didn't want to make an effort, she should have stayed home.

having to go search for their backup in another building in which she has no idea where it is, fight more people that will be guarding it, and be pushed on a time limit cuz who knows if they destroyed that backup too.

[Sorry getting repetitive]

But yea, I think in a hostage situation [or at least Mikoto's situation], it's difficult to make the right decisions because you're short on time.

The right decision is never, ever "put yourself entirely in the other guy's power with no counterpart".

Even so, she'll probably take that 10% [or whatever number] that the guy will actually GIVE it to her if she follows his instructions.

Anyway....just my 2 cents, take it with a grain of salt.

Yeah, so she'd rather take 90% chance of Febri dying than possibly work a bit harder for better odds. That doesn't sound very heroic.

[Xero8420]

Alright, can somebody give Shinobu a gun? Tell her to put a button to his head if he keeps going down to the jerkass path.