AnimeSuki Forums

Zapaan · 2004-07-20, 12:59

Not to go off on a rant here, but is it just me that thinks anime has got way too much of the schoolkids or school life related type shite?

If I see one more schoolkids series I'm going to kill some small defenseless animal with an ICBM. What is with the Japanese and school life? It's like every single anime writer is obsessed with returning to or reliving their highschool life, as if it was the defining moment of their lives. GAH!

I realize of course that they're likely trying to pitch many of these series to kids who are actually IN highschool, thus something they can relate to, and that Japanese culture historically seems to intimate that once you leave highschool you're relegated to 'duty', but come on. How can an entire culture be SO fixated on quite probably the most insignificant time of your life?

Add to this (and I'm sure this is more to do with me than anything) that the whole teen angst/juvenile concerns thing ("Oh how can I tell Billy-kun that I like him?!") drives me utterly bonkers and it's like some anime is made specifically to annoy me. I mean what is with this obsession?

Considering the enormous volume of anime that has this as either a backdrop or is the primary focus in some way, there's obviously something that exists in the Japanese cultural mentality regarding this particular time of their lives that's completely escaping me. Do the Japanese truly believe that their lives are effectively over once they leave highschool? That this is the prime of their lives?

I've been watching anime for about 19 years now (28 if you count the years I grew up with things like Star Blazers and whatnot), and like many others that have watched anime as long as I have, have a general love of the medium for various reasons, but dammit, I'm fed up with this schoolkids crap! 19 years of school life anime is longer than I spent in actual school for chrissakes!

*phew*

I feel better now. Maybe I'll go watch some Azumanga Daoih again

Semi-seriously though, anyone actually living in Japan (or maybe did live in Japan) that can shed some light on the subject? Am I right in thinking the two main factors really are the above? Or am I missing something altogether?

- Z

Ending · 2004-07-20, 13:17

(a) School girls with long, strangely coloured hair, (b) skanty dress, and (c) "magical powers" is the standard of all uncreative anime artists of today.

a) You know; the real-life juniors always dream of kicking some ugly mans arse or beating some monster size of an house. This way the anime will look more realistic.

b) Have heard that some japanese men have pretty nasty fantasies about those girls... School girl + mini-skirt == definite hard-o... sale. What is better than an anime pleasing both genders?

c) Now, what would the heroine do if she couldn't use these powers to get the attention of the best looking male in the school (incidentally getting the 'jealous' attention of the second best at the same time). It wouldn't be fun and it wouldn't sell, so every anime just *must* have magical powers -even if it were limited to farting chickens and kissing bollocks.

babbito2k · 2004-07-20, 14:07

How is this not a rant? It's certainly irate enough, and it digresses from the thing being complained about into yowling about exactly just how angry you are. I am grateful that you took the time to break the thing up properly into smallish chunks though...

Anime is mainly an entertainment for minors. Adolescents seem to enjoy entertainment focusing on emotional turmoil, and they don't seem to have much interest in characters older than themselves. So the main purpose of focusing on teenagers is to give them something they will watch.

Also, the Japanese don't generally share the view Americans seem to have of adult life (i.e. that growing up means latching onto more and bigger toys). Once the Japanese have reached the age of majority or finished college, their horizons are limited by responsibilities and the burden of maintaining social appearances.

The teenage years are viewed nostalgically as a time when life held more potential and was essentially purer in thought and motive. The brevity of those years also fits them into the concept of the evanescence of beauty (e.g. sakura blossoms). So older viewers don't always take the view you do towards watching these shows.

Reading some of the shows closely, it's easy to see that many of them take a pointedly nostalgic view. Most obvious is the simple framing of the show by a brief sentence or two where the main characters steps out to narrate briefly: "When I was 15, blah-blah blah happened in the golden year of my youth..."

I must also say that you really should look a little harder! In recent years the older-market offerings have definitely set themselves apart from the prime-time shows. Series like Ghost in the Shell: SAC and Yugo: Negotiatior are serious attempts at presenting a world where adult experience and skill are wanted and needed.

NoSanninWa · 2004-07-20, 14:45

Here are a few of the unlicensed shows being fansubbed right now that have nothing to do with Schoolkids: Monster, Cat's Eye, Dogtato-kun, Melody of Oblivion, Samurai 7. Try one of them as a antidote.

As for why this is, I think that babbito2k has the gist of it. Japanese society is very restrictive and confining. Once they graduate from high school they have lost the last of their freedom and look back on those days as the days of magic and potential when anything could have happened. Japanese adult life is too confined to make many good anime about. As he put it:

Quote:

Originally Posted by babbito2k

Also, the Japanese don't generally share the view Americans seem to have of adult life (i.e. that growing up means latching onto more and bigger toys). Once the Japanese have reached the age of majority or finished college, their horizons are limited by responsibilities and the burden of maintaining social appearances.

The teenage years are viewed nostalgically as a time when life held more potential and was essentially purer in thought and motive. The brevity of those years also fits them into the concept of the evanescence of beauty (e.g. sakura blossoms). So older viewers don't always take the view you do towards watching these shows.

That's it exactly.

babbito2k · 2004-07-20, 15:11

Melody of Oblivion is about a schoolkid who runs away from school, and features apparently teenaged characters, so it is tainted by the schoolkid thing.

The older and licensed series Kachou Ouji (Black Heaven) mixes space opera or battle anime with a main character who is suffering through a "mid-life crisis." I thought the story was OK but hated the music.

Here are some older unlicensed series:

Legend of the Galactic Heroes is an older series, a space opera in epic style.

Space Adventure Cobra is a violent space opera.

Oishinbo - the Gourmet is about one-upmanship in the culinary world.

Rose of Versailles is high drama with the French Revolution as a backdrop.

PLANETES is a dense and rich story mixing space exploration with geopolitics. This is a newer series.

Several recent series have been licensed, which is why even if we give you some titles you need to look harder - you had a chance to see some of those series fansubbed before they were licensed.

chucky · 2004-07-20, 15:14

Hmm... highschool girls...... *mouth is dripping*

Kyuven · 2004-07-20, 15:36

well, first off this is a rant (me knows a rant when mez seez one)
second, the target audience for most of those anime happen to be in school, or have at least graduated from school
it's a lot easier to relate a story about something that more people can relate to, a time when they were beginning to have problems that they could actually realize and actually "mattered" (Narutaru takes this "time" and blows everything out of proportion)
High School is where you first learn the most about the real world (you learn more AFTER you graduate, of course, but High School is the last time Japan/America "requires" you to sit in a tiny chair listening to a teacher yak on about nothing...granted people in japan CAN choose to not go to high school, or are to dumb to go in the first place)
High School, or school in general, is very important. in the average human life span, High School is only about 1/20th of your life, but almost EVERYONE remembers it.

wao · 2004-07-21, 01:37

MoO is about a kid who runs away from school, but that is hardly the point of the story, and also I feel it kind of shows the perspective of a world completely different from school which students could have never thought properly about. That outside of the confined halls where you can only think of your problems as the entire world, there are wars and humongous negotiations and all sorts of other things.... oh all right, don't listen to a fangirl, for your own good!

But yeah - I think what babbito said is right, about the nostalgia part. It's unfortunate that the impression I get from many anime is that... I don't seem to appreciate and feel any nostalgia, but then again I'm still in school myself and I don't really get the culture exactly....

For all the schoolkids anime there are out there, though (For me I think To Heart is a very classic one), there are not only non-schoolkid genre ones (like the ones NSW mentioned, plus things like Otogizoushi, Kenshin, Madlax [Would you count Margaret in? Less than 1% of the show really shows anythign significant about her school life, I think.], RoV (<3!), Violinist of Hameln, Laputa, etc...

But also good schoolkid-based shows! Mimi wo Sumaseba [aka Whisper of the Heart, which is not a translation], a wonderful Ghibli film, is also set very much in school and yet I find it's an amazing film. Very good at talking about the fact that life is life, school cannot be life and yet it is essential. That one must always keep in mind of what is outside of school.
I really like Princess Tutu as well, and while there's quite a bit of stuff happening in school, there's also loads that happen outside. Only after further thought do I realise how dramatic and significant some of these may seem to the character's lives, by trying to put myself in their (ballet?

) shoes.
Azumanga Daioh also.... rocks. I don't know why but I really appreciated and understood the real fun, innocence and carefreeness associated with school. (Not that I get any of it at my school!) Of course it was as funny as hell too...

I wish there were more anime like Kimi Ga Nozomu Eien, in the sense that they show school life but also contrast it to adult, working life where you cannot bum off anymnore.

AOforever1 · 2004-07-21, 01:51

A quick little comment here besides the ranting part here becaues I'm running low on time.

Anime really does have it's target audience set to young adults (for I am one), yet there are still some titles out there that are totally out of this world and have nothing to do with teens or children.

I also must agree to the Japanese culture influencing the art of anime.

kujoe · 2004-07-21, 02:26

Ah yes, I think I understand what you feel Zapaan. Take it from a young adult. In fact, there are times when having too many schoolkids prevents me from getting interested--like it was for me with regard to Fafner. And it's not just about having high school characters per se, but also having too many young characters in general.

But then again, there are times when I actually enjoy watching these titles, since what matters more for me is the overall experience of the entire thing. Examples of "we're-in-high-school" anime that I actually liked: Shingetsutan Tsukihime, Boys Be (probably the most nostalgic anime I've ever seen), GTO (the manga is better though) and Urusei Yatsura. Wao also mentioned KGNE, which actually made a transition from high school to adulthood. And have you watched Gunslinger Girls? They're not even in high school!

I guess my point is--don't let schoolkid overtones get in the way of enjoying a good thing. Besides, there are a lot of other anime titles out there which showcase mature stories with equally mature characters. And if you ever get sick of those, there's always Azumanga Daioh!

Laguna · 2004-07-21, 07:04

Ok, my post goes bit offtopic, but I hope this gives some insight of japanese "kawaii" culture overall. This is mostly referate of thoughts of Sharon Kinsella, whose articles can be found in internet.

Couple words of idolising childhood first: Childhood is generally seen as time where there is no responsibilities or duties. When you grow up to adult, you have to give up these freedoms, take account of your own actions and conform to society. If seen as in psychological way, idolising childhood is basically regression back to this state of freedom and rejection of adulthood with it's hardships. That being said..

Social scientist have suggested that reason behind obsession to childhood in Japanese culture is extremely strick and normative society, where there is not much room for individuality and personal freedom. As childhood is seen as symbol of freedom that isn't attainable in society, it has become one of the main inspiration of Japanese culture. Main reflection of this is style of pop-culture born in 70's, "kawaii" (including anime).

So, maybe the reason why anime admires so much childhood is that it's actually a way to criticize oppressing society and attain taste of freedom ?

Lexander · 2004-07-21, 19:05

Rant or no rant I couldn't agree with you more.

I'm just glad there is enough variety out there that I can avoid them ...

It is exetremely annoying that every other main character is a teenager ...

The explanation behind it seems so depressing to me ... If I knew school was the highlight of my life I would just go take a bath with my toaster.

H2-FumoGuu · 2004-07-22, 09:03

Well if you are really 34, then maybe you just... outgrew anime? You're definitely not the target audience for most anime. Hopefully you will reach a midlife crisis soon and get back into the whole "young people are more interesting than people over 25" flow.

Sun-Ku · 2004-07-22, 10:15

Yeah were are the old type animes like Macross I, Outlanders etc

Zapaan · 2004-07-22, 16:48

For everyone taking the 'rant' part seriously, relax, it's all tongue in cheek. I mean come on, I threatened to kill a small defenceless animal with a tactical nuke. I suppose my droll sarcasm skills are a little out of practice.

At any rate, it sounds like the bulk of explanations pretty much fall under my two suspicions as to why so much of it exists. Though I suspect the majority of it falls under the target demographic umbrella though, as money will almost always be the deciding factor when it comes to things involving entertainment.

kujoe: Don't get me wrong, I still enjoy some titles regardless of the schoolkid factor (as evidenced by my love of Azumanga Daioh & Sensei no Ojikan). I suppose what really annoys me is that so many of them strike me as being almost carbon copies of each other, with different names, a few details altered, but overall, I feel like I'm watching the same series over and over again. Not necessarily a bad thing in and of itself (as evidenced by my love of retellings of great stories), but after a while, it can get tiresome.

Laguna: You raise a very good point, though honestly, I'm not sure how much social commentary you're going to derive from something like Green Green

Seriously though, I wouldn't be surprised if there was some truth to that hypothesis (even if it may only be subconscious). Which actually brings me to another tangent that I'm curious about regarding some of Japan's social order and culture regarding youth and adulthood.

Lexander: See, I'm not entirely convinced that the bulk of Japanese society actually feels this way. Obviously in most Western cultures, there isn't the open stigmatism of duty and responsibility that exists in Japan, but it's still there, and just as strong. When I was 18 and about to go off to university, I began to experience a kind of mild depression related to knowing that my youth was almost over and that I'd have to become an 'upstanding member of society' and all that in the next few years, but now many years later, I realize how ridiculous that was, and that if anything, it's not until after you enter the real world does your life truly become interesting and significant. I find it a little unlikely that the bulk of the adult Japanese public feels their life is over after school. Certainly there's a segment which likely feels a little trapped in their life, but that's not exclusive to Japanese culture, it's everywhere. If anything, I suspect there's a stereotype being played out here where the view of what things must be like in Japanese adult culture is skewed due to limited actual exposure to the realities of life in Japan. I'm not saying it's completely wrong, I'm just saying the magnitude or even the importance may be off somewhat.

H2-FumoGuu: While I certainly can't disagree there may be an age element at play here in my dislike of the schoolkids thing, I definitely would never agree that a young person could possibly be more interesting than someone over 25. Not impossible, just highly improbable. I don't think I've ever met a young person who's been involved in 2 wars, nor raised 3 teenagers, ran a multi-billion dollar company, written and published 7 books, travelled the world (not just europe) on their own work and will, saved hundreds of lives, earned a PhD, etc. Simply put, young people are so common amongst themselves that while they may think they're unique, they're nearly all identical.

Anyway, as I was saying above, I'm curious about an element of Japanese culture that I've noticed over the years regarding youth and adulthood.

In several movies, jdramas, manga, and even anime to some degree, I've noticed an almost clear distinction of some kind of hostility between the youth and adults that I'm curious as to how profound this sentiment actually is in Japan. The clearest example of this is in Battle Royale, and while I wouldn't call it a great movie (though certainly entertaining), I'm not quite sure if it was attempting to make some social commentary regarding the way the youth feel towards adults or if it was simply playing on an old theme that seems to be prevelant in Japanese culture as I don't see this kind of thing too much in other media from other cultures (at least not this profound).

In many of these mediums, there's a feeling of almost open hatred of adults from the youth, feelings of betrayal, that adults are not to be trusted, that they want nothing to do with 'their' world, etc. That said, and considering the generally strict conformist lifestyle that exists in Japan, I'm curious as to the obvious relationship between the melancholy I mentioned earlier about nostalgic highschool life and this undercurrent of resentment towards adults.

Or is it something much more universal in the metaphoric sense of what one goes through in life as they pass from stages of youth being tied to rebellion, and adulthood being tied to authority? A kind of generational ying and yang? And perhaps the fact that everyone experiences this 'betrayal' of sorts in themselves as they grow up, only to realize that there is no betrayal at all?

Thoughts?

- Z

Iori Branford · 2004-07-22, 17:40

We need more warrior school kids. I want an Azumanga game where students and faculty take up medieval arms and magic and give "rival schools" a whole new meaning.

babbito2k · 2004-07-22, 17:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zapaan

...I've noticed an almost clear distinction of some kind of hostility between the youth and adults that I'm curious as to how profound this sentiment actually is in Japan. The clearest example of this is in Battle Royale, and while I wouldn't call it a great movie (though certainly entertaining), I'm not quite sure if it was attempting to make some social commentary regarding the way the youth feel towards adults or if it was simply playing on an old theme that seems to be prevelant in Japanese culture as I don't see this kind of thing too much in other media from other cultures (at least not this profound).

In many of these mediums, there's a feeling of almost open hatred of adults from the youth, feelings of betrayal, that adults are not to be trusted, that they want nothing to do with 'their' world, etc. That said, and considering the generally strict conformist lifestyle that exists in Japan, I'm curious as to the obvious relationship between the melancholy I mentioned earlier about nostalgic highschool life and this undercurrent of resentment towards adults.

Or is it something much more universal in the metaphoric sense of what one goes through in life as they pass from stages of youth being tied to rebellion, and adulthood being tied to authority? A kind of generational ying and yang? And perhaps the fact that everyone experiences this 'betrayal' of sorts in themselves as they grow up, only to realize that there is no betrayal at all?

Generally, the artistic convention I previously mentioned (the vision of youth in terms of its purity, beauty and brevity) can always be made to fit any conflict between young and old. But there are also specific contemporary circumstances which influence contemporary expression of this convention.

The Japanese political system is part of what makes Japanese adult life such a drag. It's full of tired-out and greedy old geezers. They are basically amoral and many of them are well past the age where they can actually handle their jobs. They leeched onto the boom economy and managed to preside over its demise.

The Japanese press basically gets access to news based on the system's sufferance, so a lot of bad behavior never gets reported. So there is not much hope of getting anyone elected who gives a damn, or even of finding out what the people who do get elected are up to.

More generally, the widespread and long-lasting economic recession has seriously weakened the "lifetime employment" "contract" between business and employees. Although this "contract" was never available to all Japanese (mostly to college-educated males), the fact that it is no longer available even to the select few implies that everyone else must be in a deeply insecure situation.

Of course none of this directly relates to teenagers. But Japan is nominally a paternalistic society; those on top must serve and keep the trust of those farther down. So a "generation-gap" drama may be taken as symbolizing disillusionment with the nation's leaders.

More directly, young Japanese have second-hand experience of the recession and know that their future prospects will not resemble those of their parents. They are predictably resentful and quite a few have basically "dropped-out" of the social pattern (the competition for test rankings, the emphasis on conformity etc.).

I don't think Japanese cultural forms necessarily embrace compromise (suicide used to be an alternative in Japanese life and literature). Most "growing-up" shows seem to cover childhood into adolescence. Adulthood seems to be more about adapting to new and more rigid standards of behavior than any thought process.

kujoe · 2004-07-24, 06:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zapaan

In several movies, jdramas, manga, and even anime to some degree, I've noticed an almost clear distinction of some kind of hostility between the youth and adults that I'm curious as to how profound this sentiment actually is in Japan. The clearest example of this is in Battle Royale, and while I wouldn't call it a great movie (though certainly entertaining), I'm not quite sure if it was attempting to make some social commentary regarding the way the youth feel towards adults or if it was simply playing on an old theme that seems to be prevelant in Japanese culture as I don't see this kind of thing too much in other media from other cultures (at least not this profound).

In many of these mediums, there's a feeling of almost open hatred of adults from the youth, feelings of betrayal, that adults are not to be trusted, that they want nothing to do with 'their' world, etc. That said, and considering the generally strict conformist lifestyle that exists in Japan, I'm curious as to the obvious relationship between the melancholy I mentioned earlier about nostalgic highschool life and this undercurrent of resentment towards adults.

Or is it something much more universal in the metaphoric sense of what one goes through in life as they pass from stages of youth being tied to rebellion, and adulthood being tied to authority? A kind of generational ying and yang? And perhaps the fact that everyone experiences this 'betrayal' of sorts in themselves as they grow up, only to realize that there is no betrayal at all?

Here's an article that you might find interesting. It's a talk given by Toshio Okada--aka Otaking, screenwriter of Otaku no Video and one of the founders of Gainax. There's a short segment that speaks about this underlying dichotomy between youth and adulthood. I don't think you can regard this one as the most valid analysis, so take it with a grain of salt.

http://www.mit.edu:8001/people/rei/m...aluncheon.html

Yuun · 2004-07-24, 10:55

Hmm... i think the Japanese is trying to show the world how their education way like. Besides, i don't think is that bad right? Well i mean, everyone go to school right?? Whats wrong if we insert such element into a anime??

I don't have any trouble about it, since they got so much different kinds of school uniform and stuffs. Especially the girl's uniform.... they're cute ^_^ that just make them Kawaii.... my Country school uniform is just plain boring since the country is wearing the same uniform, but in Japan is different cause the got Different uniform for different school lolz ^_^

Nevertheless Japan is a very develop country and yet they are very into their culture and is protected well... If you're a ASEAN people then you should understand the Easy and West differences....

If you hate School genre then you'll have trouble watching anime nowadays.... maybe Dragon Ball suits you better??? No school stuff though....^_^

Yuun · 2004-07-24, 11:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Laguna

Ok, my post goes bit offtopic, but I hope this gives some insight of japanese "kawaii" culture overall. This is mostly referate of thoughts of Sharon Kinsella, whose articles can be found in internet.

Couple words of idolising childhood first: Childhood is generally seen as time where there is no responsibilities or duties. When you grow up to adult, you have to give up these freedoms, take account of your own actions and conform to society. If seen as in psychological way, idolising childhood is basically regression back to this state of freedom and rejection of adulthood with it's hardships. That being said..

Social scientist have suggested that reason behind obsession to childhood in Japanese culture is extremely strick and normative society, where there is not much room for individuality and personal freedom. As childhood is seen as symbol of freedom that isn't attainable in society, it has become one of the main inspiration of Japanese culture. Main reflection of this is style of pop-culture born in 70's, "kawaii" (including anime).

So, maybe the reason why anime admires so much childhood is that it's actually a way to criticize oppressing society and attain taste of freedom ?

I can't agree more than that ^_^ In Japan is really different, unlike other country they're the Country of Rising Sun afterall... so they should look like one, thats why all the adults need to play their role in the society well to increase productivity.

In other words, if they don't enjoy their School life then it would be a waste cause they can't do it anymore in a certain age. Although it may sound familiar with you since everybody life changes at certain level of age, but in Japan... like what Laguna say, they're very strict.

Regarding Economy prospect... my little Country even hold the principe of "Dasar Padan Ke Timur" which carries the meaning, follow the path of the Japanese. Well according to statistic... we are behind Japan 20 years ~_~" hahaha~

I would like to go to Japan one day to witness everything and if i could... i'll would like to work and grow successful there.... better still if i can get a Japanese wife ^_^

2004-07-20, 12:59	Link #1
Zapaan Kawaii Inspector Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: 9th Plane of Heck Age: 54	Gah! Enough Schoolkids Already! Not to go off on a rant here, but is it just me that thinks anime has got way too much of the schoolkids or school life related type shite? If I see one more schoolkids series I'm going to kill some small defenseless animal with an ICBM. What is with the Japanese and school life? It's like every single anime writer is obsessed with returning to or reliving their highschool life, as if it was the defining moment of their lives. GAH! I realize of course that they're likely trying to pitch many of these series to kids who are actually IN highschool, thus something they can relate to, and that Japanese culture historically seems to intimate that once you leave highschool you're relegated to 'duty', but come on. How can an entire culture be SO fixated on quite probably the most insignificant time of your life? Add to this (and I'm sure this is more to do with me than anything) that the whole teen angst/juvenile concerns thing ("Oh how can I tell Billy-kun that I like him?!") drives me utterly bonkers and it's like some anime is made specifically to annoy me. I mean what is with this obsession? Considering the enormous volume of anime that has this as either a backdrop or is the primary focus in some way, there's obviously something that exists in the Japanese cultural mentality regarding this particular time of their lives that's completely escaping me. Do the Japanese truly believe that their lives are effectively over once they leave highschool? That this is the prime of their lives? I've been watching anime for about 19 years now (28 if you count the years I grew up with things like Star Blazers and whatnot), and like many others that have watched anime as long as I have, have a general love of the medium for various reasons, but dammit, I'm fed up with this schoolkids crap! 19 years of school life anime is longer than I spent in actual school for chrissakes! phew I feel better now. Maybe I'll go watch some Azumanga Daoih again Semi-seriously though, anyone actually living in Japan (or maybe did live in Japan) that can shed some light on the subject? Am I right in thinking the two main factors really are the above? Or am I missing something altogether? - Z

2004-07-21, 01:37	Link #8
wao OK. Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: The Fields of High Attus Age: 34	MoO is about a kid who runs away from school, but that is hardly the point of the story, and also I feel it kind of shows the perspective of a world completely different from school which students could have never thought properly about. That outside of the confined halls where you can only think of your problems as the entire world, there are wars and humongous negotiations and all sorts of other things.... oh all right, don't listen to a fangirl, for your own good! But yeah - I think what babbito said is right, about the nostalgia part. It's unfortunate that the impression I get from many anime is that... I don't seem to appreciate and feel any nostalgia, but then again I'm still in school myself and I don't really get the culture exactly.... For all the schoolkids anime there are out there, though (For me I think To Heart is a very classic one), there are not only non-schoolkid genre ones (like the ones NSW mentioned, plus things like Otogizoushi, Kenshin, Madlax [Would you count Margaret in? Less than 1% of the show really shows anythign significant about her school life, I think.], RoV (<3!), Violinist of Hameln, Laputa, etc... But also good schoolkid-based shows! Mimi wo Sumaseba [aka Whisper of the Heart, which is not a translation], a wonderful Ghibli film, is also set very much in school and yet I find it's an amazing film. Very good at talking about the fact that life is life, school cannot be life and yet it is essential. That one must always keep in mind of what is outside of school. I really like Princess Tutu as well, and while there's quite a bit of stuff happening in school, there's also loads that happen outside. Only after further thought do I realise how dramatic and significant some of these may seem to the character's lives, by trying to put myself in their (ballet? ) shoes. Azumanga Daioh also.... rocks. I don't know why but I really appreciated and understood the real fun, innocence and carefreeness associated with school. (Not that I get any of it at my school!) Of course it was as funny as hell too... I wish there were more anime like Kimi Ga Nozomu Eien, in the sense that they show school life but also contrast it to adult, working life where you cannot bum off anymnore. __________________ Thanks for the fish

2004-07-20, 13:17	Link #2
Ending Senior Member Join Date: May 2004	(a) School girls with long, strangely coloured hair, (b) skanty dress, and (c) "magical powers" is the standard of all uncreative anime artists of today. a) You know; the real-life juniors always dream of kicking some ugly mans arse or beating some monster size of an house. This way the anime will look more realistic. b) Have heard that some japanese men have pretty nasty fantasies about those girls... School girl + mini-skirt == definite hard-o... sale. What is better than an anime pleasing both genders? c) Now, what would the heroine do if she couldn't use these powers to get the attention of the best looking male in the school (incidentally getting the 'jealous' attention of the second best at the same time). It wouldn't be fun and it wouldn't sell, so every anime just must have magical powers -even if it were limited to farting chickens and kissing bollocks.

2004-07-20, 14:07	Link #3
babbito2k annoying white bat Join Date: Jan 2004	How is this not a rant? It's certainly irate enough, and it digresses from the thing being complained about into yowling about exactly just how angry you are. I am grateful that you took the time to break the thing up properly into smallish chunks though... Anime is mainly an entertainment for minors. Adolescents seem to enjoy entertainment focusing on emotional turmoil, and they don't seem to have much interest in characters older than themselves. So the main purpose of focusing on teenagers is to give them something they will watch. Also, the Japanese don't generally share the view Americans seem to have of adult life (i.e. that growing up means latching onto more and bigger toys). Once the Japanese have reached the age of majority or finished college, their horizons are limited by responsibilities and the burden of maintaining social appearances. The teenage years are viewed nostalgically as a time when life held more potential and was essentially purer in thought and motive. The brevity of those years also fits them into the concept of the evanescence of beauty (e.g. sakura blossoms). So older viewers don't always take the view you do towards watching these shows. Reading some of the shows closely, it's easy to see that many of them take a pointedly nostalgic view. Most obvious is the simple framing of the show by a brief sentence or two where the main characters steps out to narrate briefly: "When I was 15, blah-blah blah happened in the golden year of my youth..." I must also say that you really should look a little harder! In recent years the older-market offerings have definitely set themselves apart from the prime-time shows. Series like Ghost in the Shell: SAC and Yugo: Negotiatior are serious attempts at presenting a world where adult experience and skill are wanted and needed.

2004-07-20, 15:11	Link #5
babbito2k annoying white bat Join Date: Jan 2004	Melody of Oblivion is about a schoolkid who runs away from school, and features apparently teenaged characters, so it is tainted by the schoolkid thing. The older and licensed series Kachou Ouji (Black Heaven) mixes space opera or battle anime with a main character who is suffering through a "mid-life crisis." I thought the story was OK but hated the music. Here are some older unlicensed series: Legend of the Galactic Heroes is an older series, a space opera in epic style. Space Adventure Cobra is a violent space opera. Oishinbo - the Gourmet is about one-upmanship in the culinary world. Rose of Versailles is high drama with the French Revolution as a backdrop. PLANETES is a dense and rich story mixing space exploration with geopolitics. This is a newer series. Several recent series have been licensed, which is why even if we give you some titles you need to look harder - you had a chance to see some of those series fansubbed before they were licensed.

2004-07-20, 15:14	Link #6
chucky Always impatient Join Date: Jun 2004	Hmm... highschool girls...... mouth is dripping

2004-07-20, 15:36	Link #7
Kyuven Bishoujo Goodness Galore! Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Stuck Between Reality and Fantasy	well, first off this is a rant (me knows a rant when mez seez one) second, the target audience for most of those anime happen to be in school, or have at least graduated from school it's a lot easier to relate a story about something that more people can relate to, a time when they were beginning to have problems that they could actually realize and actually "mattered" (Narutaru takes this "time" and blows everything out of proportion) High School is where you first learn the most about the real world (you learn more AFTER you graduate, of course, but High School is the last time Japan/America "requires" you to sit in a tiny chair listening to a teacher yak on about nothing...granted people in japan CAN choose to not go to high school, or are to dumb to go in the first place) High School, or school in general, is very important. in the average human life span, High School is only about 1/20th of your life, but almost EVERYONE remembers it.

2004-07-21, 01:51	Link #9
AOforever1 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: USA Age: 36	A quick little comment here besides the ranting part here becaues I'm running low on time. Anime really does have it's target audience set to young adults (for I am one), yet there are still some titles out there that are totally out of this world and have nothing to do with teens or children. I also must agree to the Japanese culture influencing the art of anime.

2004-07-21, 02:26	Link #10
kujoe from head to heel Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Vancouver, Canada Age: 42	Ah yes, I think I understand what you feel Zapaan. Take it from a young adult. In fact, there are times when having too many schoolkids prevents me from getting interested--like it was for me with regard to Fafner. And it's not just about having high school characters per se, but also having too many young characters in general. But then again, there are times when I actually enjoy watching these titles, since what matters more for me is the overall experience of the entire thing. Examples of "we're-in-high-school" anime that I actually liked: Shingetsutan Tsukihime, Boys Be (probably the most nostalgic anime I've ever seen), GTO (the manga is better though) and Urusei Yatsura. Wao also mentioned KGNE, which actually made a transition from high school to adulthood. And have you watched Gunslinger Girls? They're not even in high school! I guess my point is--don't let schoolkid overtones get in the way of enjoying a good thing. Besides, there are a lot of other anime titles out there which showcase mature stories with equally mature characters. And if you ever get sick of those, there's always Azumanga Daioh!

2004-07-21, 07:04	Link #11
Laguna Aikidoka Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Europe	Ok, my post goes bit offtopic, but I hope this gives some insight of japanese "kawaii" culture overall. This is mostly referate of thoughts of Sharon Kinsella, whose articles can be found in internet. Couple words of idolising childhood first: Childhood is generally seen as time where there is no responsibilities or duties. When you grow up to adult, you have to give up these freedoms, take account of your own actions and conform to society. If seen as in psychological way, idolising childhood is basically regression back to this state of freedom and rejection of adulthood with it's hardships. That being said.. Social scientist have suggested that reason behind obsession to childhood in Japanese culture is extremely strick and normative society, where there is not much room for individuality and personal freedom. As childhood is seen as symbol of freedom that isn't attainable in society, it has become one of the main inspiration of Japanese culture. Main reflection of this is style of pop-culture born in 70's, "kawaii" (including anime). So, maybe the reason why anime admires so much childhood is that it's actually a way to criticize oppressing society and attain taste of freedom ?

2004-07-21, 19:05	Link #12
Lexander www.thefestlanders.com Join Date: Dec 2003	Rant or no rant I couldn't agree with you more. I'm just glad there is enough variety out there that I can avoid them ... It is exetremely annoying that every other main character is a teenager ... The explanation behind it seems so depressing to me ... If I knew school was the highlight of my life I would just go take a bath with my toaster.

2004-07-22, 09:03	Link #13
H2-FumoGuu パンツ。。。好き Join Date: Apr 2004	Well if you are really 34, then maybe you just... outgrew anime? You're definitely not the target audience for most anime. Hopefully you will reach a midlife crisis soon and get back into the whole "young people are more interesting than people over 25" flow.

2004-07-22, 10:15	Link #14
Sun-Ku Member Join Date: Jul 2004	Yeah were are the old type animes like Macross I, Outlanders etc

2004-07-22, 16:48	Link #15
Zapaan Kawaii Inspector Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: 9th Plane of Heck Age: 54	For everyone taking the 'rant' part seriously, relax, it's all tongue in cheek. I mean come on, I threatened to kill a small defenceless animal with a tactical nuke. I suppose my droll sarcasm skills are a little out of practice. At any rate, it sounds like the bulk of explanations pretty much fall under my two suspicions as to why so much of it exists. Though I suspect the majority of it falls under the target demographic umbrella though, as money will almost always be the deciding factor when it comes to things involving entertainment. kujoe: Don't get me wrong, I still enjoy some titles regardless of the schoolkid factor (as evidenced by my love of Azumanga Daioh & Sensei no Ojikan). I suppose what really annoys me is that so many of them strike me as being almost carbon copies of each other, with different names, a few details altered, but overall, I feel like I'm watching the same series over and over again. Not necessarily a bad thing in and of itself (as evidenced by my love of retellings of great stories), but after a while, it can get tiresome. Laguna: You raise a very good point, though honestly, I'm not sure how much social commentary you're going to derive from something like Green Green Seriously though, I wouldn't be surprised if there was some truth to that hypothesis (even if it may only be subconscious). Which actually brings me to another tangent that I'm curious about regarding some of Japan's social order and culture regarding youth and adulthood. Lexander: See, I'm not entirely convinced that the bulk of Japanese society actually feels this way. Obviously in most Western cultures, there isn't the open stigmatism of duty and responsibility that exists in Japan, but it's still there, and just as strong. When I was 18 and about to go off to university, I began to experience a kind of mild depression related to knowing that my youth was almost over and that I'd have to become an 'upstanding member of society' and all that in the next few years, but now many years later, I realize how ridiculous that was, and that if anything, it's not until after you enter the real world does your life truly become interesting and significant. I find it a little unlikely that the bulk of the adult Japanese public feels their life is over after school. Certainly there's a segment which likely feels a little trapped in their life, but that's not exclusive to Japanese culture, it's everywhere. If anything, I suspect there's a stereotype being played out here where the view of what things must be like in Japanese adult culture is skewed due to limited actual exposure to the realities of life in Japan. I'm not saying it's completely wrong, I'm just saying the magnitude or even the importance may be off somewhat. H2-FumoGuu: While I certainly can't disagree there may be an age element at play here in my dislike of the schoolkids thing, I definitely would never agree that a young person could possibly be more interesting than someone over 25. Not impossible, just highly improbable. I don't think I've ever met a young person who's been involved in 2 wars, nor raised 3 teenagers, ran a multi-billion dollar company, written and published 7 books, travelled the world (not just europe) on their own work and will, saved hundreds of lives, earned a PhD, etc. Simply put, young people are so common amongst themselves that while they may think they're unique, they're nearly all identical. Anyway, as I was saying above, I'm curious about an element of Japanese culture that I've noticed over the years regarding youth and adulthood. In several movies, jdramas, manga, and even anime to some degree, I've noticed an almost clear distinction of some kind of hostility between the youth and adults that I'm curious as to how profound this sentiment actually is in Japan. The clearest example of this is in Battle Royale, and while I wouldn't call it a great movie (though certainly entertaining), I'm not quite sure if it was attempting to make some social commentary regarding the way the youth feel towards adults or if it was simply playing on an old theme that seems to be prevelant in Japanese culture as I don't see this kind of thing too much in other media from other cultures (at least not this profound). In many of these mediums, there's a feeling of almost open hatred of adults from the youth, feelings of betrayal, that adults are not to be trusted, that they want nothing to do with 'their' world, etc. That said, and considering the generally strict conformist lifestyle that exists in Japan, I'm curious as to the obvious relationship between the melancholy I mentioned earlier about nostalgic highschool life and this undercurrent of resentment towards adults. Or is it something much more universal in the metaphoric sense of what one goes through in life as they pass from stages of youth being tied to rebellion, and adulthood being tied to authority? A kind of generational ying and yang? And perhaps the fact that everyone experiences this 'betrayal' of sorts in themselves as they grow up, only to realize that there is no betrayal at all? Thoughts? - Z

2004-07-22, 17:40	Link #16
Iori Branford UH OH SEI IS A KITTY Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: I'M A HAPPY HAPPY HAPPY HAPPY WINDOW WIPER	We need more warrior school kids. I want an Azumanga game where students and faculty take up medieval arms and magic and give "rival schools" a whole new meaning.

2004-07-24, 10:55	Link #19
Yuun ~Trying to Enjoy Life~ Join Date: May 2004 Location: Malaysia Age: 37	Hmm... i think the Japanese is trying to show the world how their education way like. Besides, i don't think is that bad right? Well i mean, everyone go to school right?? Whats wrong if we insert such element into a anime?? I don't have any trouble about it, since they got so much different kinds of school uniform and stuffs. Especially the girl's uniform.... they're cute ^_^ that just make them Kawaii.... my Country school uniform is just plain boring since the country is wearing the same uniform, but in Japan is different cause the got Different uniform for different school lolz ^_^ Nevertheless Japan is a very develop country and yet they are very into their culture and is protected well... If you're a ASEAN people then you should understand the Easy and West differences.... If you hate School genre then you'll have trouble watching anime nowadays.... maybe Dragon Ball suits you better??? No school stuff though....^_^