AnimeSuki Forums

yezhanquan · 2008-04-19, 02:42

GSD had plenty of holes.

Anyway, after looking through the seiyu list, I was convinced that GSD was nothing more than a frat party for the seiyu involved.

I feel that Seed was pretty ok. Not spectacular, but definitely not mediocre.

RedWing · 2008-04-19, 08:26

Too many reused plots.

Gundams just got stolen? That's never happened before.
The main character just disobeyed orders and returned a female back to the enemy! What Innovative ideas they can come up with
Orb is being attacked? Wow that's original
OMG it "Neo" Genesis! Never seen anything like that before.

WhiteWings · 2008-04-20, 01:35

Too many characters to deal with but not enough episodes and that the new characters wern't able to keep up with the characters of the old.

anselfir · 2008-04-20, 04:18

it didn't fail. provided lots of lulz moments, which is its aspiration anyway. the so called plot and content are just pretensions, the real business lies in the gundamu and the chicks

seems like most of the people who say gsd failed are taking gundamu entirely too seriously.

Tkpenalty · 2008-04-21, 00:55

Too much beam spamming and repeated scenes like in redwing's avatar :P. GSD just didnt work, after ep10, where it started going downhill. You could tell which eps were properly planned and which werent-after EP10 I think they started to rush.....

Tendou88 · 2008-04-21, 17:07

Repeated battle scenes are unforgiveable !!!!!!!!

and to many summary episode...

is like they slacked and wanted to end it fast.

The first ending was very lame, but the final plus saved it

Lolipopo · 2008-04-21, 17:11

SHINN !

He was reponsible of everything

Athrun's regression, Cagalli's tears, Kira's infinite power...without him nothing will have going this way...

Eidolon Sniper · 2008-04-22, 02:50

I'd pretty much say GSD was a failure because of a badly written story. Characters were plentiful, but during episode 13 up, the characters now only serve as "stand in characters", with no purpose at all, except just to....appear in the show.

Also, the Gundams. I never realized it was very easy to create Gundams like that! And EVERYBODY can have a Gundam too. The grunts are cannon fodder, even Gundams can be cannon fodder.

seriously, where's the ace and Gundam in this show? Gundams were feared because of the pilots who also pilot them, as well as carrying the trademark, Gundam (which was now disproven in Gundam 00 lol

). The SEs made it even worse...it's not that Fukuda doesn't want to make Shinn or Kira an enemy in the fans' POV, he was just scared to let that happen, and so opted for Athrun instead. If he was really serious that "Kira is off the path of justice" in one of his unreal interviews, then he would go on and do some SEs that makes Kira like that, but sadly no. Cagalli and Athrun were destroyed as characters. Reused animations. Also loved how Fukuda retconned and made the Druggie Gundam responsible for Shinn's family's death, lol.

Dullindal suddenly became the "evil, obligatory" villain. Rampant fanservice....errm, the Archangel bath scene looks and feels so much like Tenchi Muyo...I don't mind seeing spaceship baths in Tenchi Muyo, but it disturbs me in GSD for some reason.

Killer Tomato · 2008-04-22, 05:11

Lol...I think the reasons of why GSD failed has been repeated countless times...maybe we should just close this thread and move on...

@ Eidolon_Sniper:

Fukuda actually said Kira was "Off the path of justice"?

Eidolon Sniper · 2008-04-22, 06:17

Yes, it was, in one of his nonsensical interviews.

that being said, we all do know very well that we should not believe Fukuda in any way. Also, the TSA fight in the ending reminded mne too much of a Final Fantasy summoning sequence...in a very bad way...

tbl · 2008-04-22, 06:21

I liked GSD. The trick to enjoying the series is to pretend that Haysoos Yamato was still the protagonist instead of Shinn.

Eidolon Sniper · 2008-04-22, 06:32

Actually, you don't need to pretend. That's the very sad part of it.

Killer Tomato · 2008-04-22, 11:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eidolon Sniper

Yes, it was, in one of his nonsensical interviews.

that being said, we all do know very well that we should not believe Fukuda in any way. Also, the TSA fight in the ending reminded mne too much of a Final Fantasy summoning sequence...in a very bad way...

Wow. Like, when did Fukuda say that? At the end of GSD? Midway thru?

4Tran · 2008-04-22, 18:41

As I wrote earlier:

Quote:

Here's an excerpt from the Chinese translation of the interview:

Quote:

Originally Posted by cajunman380

--最終話與阿斯蘭的衝突讓真發現了自己的錯誤,您有想過讓他跑去煌那邊的可能性嗎?

福田　從一開始就沒有這個打算。因為我想做的是真在最後失去了一切,只剩下露娜瑪莉亞的故事。希望大家不要誤解的是,我完全不認為飛鳥真不是正義的。真和杜蘭朵的所作所為是為了世界著想,煌這邊反而是有些偏離了正義。

- Shinn seems to have realized that he's wrong during the final confrontation against Athrun, have you ever thought of the possibility that he may go to Kira's side?

Fukuda : I have absolutely no such intention right from the start, because I always want to create a story where in the end Shinn loses everything except Lunamaria. I hope people don't misunderstand it, I don't think Shinn is incorrect (unjust? wrong?) at all. What Shinn and Dullindal have done are all for the good of the world, on the other hand Kira's side is the one which has somewhat deviated from the path of justice.

--但那不就是煌所說的不會進化的世界嗎?

福田　是啊。我想杜蘭朵對人類是覺得絕望的。如煌和拉克絲所言,世上充滿戰亂,將來會如何沒有人能提出明確的答案。人類永遠無法讓戰亂停止,戰爭的本質無法改變。那麼就從根本來改變世界的構造,將戰爭從人類世界除去。對杜蘭朵來說這才是人類的救贖之道。他不是為了自己的慾望而想支配世界的,以這點來說他並非邪惡。就算有人反駁說這種世界無法進化,他也能回答那麼放著人類不管的話戰爭會消失嗎

- But isn't that (Dullindal's world) a world unable to evolve according to Kira?

Fukuda : yes, I think Dulldinal is pessimistic (holds no hope?) for mankind. Just like what Kira and Lacus said, the world is full of wars and conflicts, no one can give a clear answer to what the future will be like. Mankind can never stop wars and conflicts, the nature of war cannot be changed. So the basic structure of the world needs to be changed to erase wars from the human world. For Dullindal that's the path of salvation for mankind. He does not want to control the world out of his own desires, so he's not evil in this sense. Even if someone opposes him and says that kind of world will be unable to evolve, he can still counter that if we just leave mankind alone wars will never disappear.

What Fukuda was saying was that Shinn and Durandal were fighting for the higher ideal of a world without war, while Kira's side was fighting for much less lofty goals. It says nothing about Durandal not being a villain. Also keep in mind that this is a translation of a translation, so there's going to be some room for error (and there's no point in quibbling over exact wording).

I'd also like to point out that we shouldn't take Fukuda's interviews too seriously in any case since, as Deacon Blues said:

Quote:

The interviews contain nothing official in them because they are purely 'off the record' and highly opinionated, hence why anything that Fukuda said about crap happening in SEED and DESTINY is not official

In general, creators' interviews are a nice insight into their thought processes, but it usually doesn't go much further than that.

The interview came out some time after Destiny finished, but it shouldn't make a whole lot of difference since Fukuda is well known for poor interviews.

Derringer · 2008-04-22, 20:31

Why are we grave digging?

In any case I want to point out for people using the DVDs/CDs as an indicator of success , that, yes, this was the chief profit contributer. However Gundam shows need to have really high GunPla/toy sales. A lot of R&D goes into transfering a design into a working model kit that spans several grades and toys and they expect that investment to be returned several times over. This didn't happen as planned. Only certain mecha designs were able to accomplish this resulting in an over estimated demand. Also, it was mentioned by Foxpaws a while ago that the lack of inexpensive later designs such as the Legend, Justice, and Akatsuki in the small FG 1/144 format contributed highly to the gunpla weakness. The fans wanted Gundams, not ZAKUS or GOUFs or DOMs or other things. Of course the old UC designs were put in there because they were supposed to be a throw back for older fans to encourage them to invest in buying the other Destiny designs. Didn't happen. The older fans for the most part didn't bite.

Destiny revealed two things: Older male fans are not likely to be attracted to a new Gundam even if there are Universal Century references and young female fans don't have the same merchandise tastes as male fans. And finally, it's very hard to get newer Gundam fans to check out older Gundam series.

Ryuujin · 2008-04-22, 20:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derringer

The fans wanted Gundams, not ZAKUS or GOUFs or DOMs or other things.

It would have helped if the Destiny model lines weren't quite so half-assed. We never did get even an HG Blast Impulse or Slash ZAKU (the two forms I wanted most)...

Critias · 2008-04-22, 23:48

Ok gonna jump in here.

I rewatched the series in its entirety. For me, the series started losing credibility was when they revealed that EA could erase memories. I felt this cheated Sting, Auel, and Stellar out of better character development. Let's take for example when Auel flips out, says Stellar's block word, and she runs off. When Phantom Pain finds out what has happened, we COULD have had Sting and Auel go after her out of concern for a teammate since it was shown that they at least have SOME form of comraderie. But what do we get instead? NOPE! Memory wipe, Sting and Auel just fight for kicks. Lame. They COULD have gone with the whole "getting back our teammate" angle, and that MAY have made the trio more likeable and viewers could relate to them. Nah, the writers/director decided they weren't worth keeping since Yamato and co. were still around.

Another example: Auel dies, Sting memory wiped. We could have had Sting go get some revenge for the missing Stellar and dead Auel, but now he doesn't even know who the hell they are. Yippee.

So the whole memory wipe thing was a convenient way of 1) copping out of new character development because of Kira and friends, 2) a convenient way of making Neo into Mwu.
They could have gone with so many different paths at the start of the whole memory pod thing. I think the memory pods was the start of GSD's nonsense. It just snowballed into oblivion afterward.

Eidolon Sniper · 2008-04-23, 00:02

Oh wow I can't believe I've forgotten about Neo "just because there isn't an interesting adult about so we resurrected Andrew Waltfeld" Lorrnoke.

Also, that facility in Lodonia didn't actually make enough sense just to point out that EA are the sadist and most miserable villains the CE universe has ever known. I can't recall if Rey had an awful experience in there (as he lost it when he saw all the children in the EA labs - see, this is another loophole

). The Lodonia labs were only presented in a couple of episodes and served as the obligatory backdrop for the reconditioned children - Extendeds - who we now know as Sting, Auel and Stellar. Other than that, it served no other purpose (unless it was tackled in the Astray manga). This also goes the same for Stellar - was her memory wiped when Auel died?

Critias · 2008-04-24, 00:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eidolon Sniper

Oh wow I can't believe I've forgotten about Neo "just because there isn't an interesting adult about so we resurrected Andrew Waltfeld" Lorrnoke.

Also, that facility in Lodonia didn't actually make enough sense just to point out that EA are the sadist and most miserable villains the CE universe has ever known. I can't recall if Rey had an awful experience in there (as he lost it when he saw all the children in the EA labs - see, this is another loophole

). The Lodonia labs were only presented in a couple of episodes and served as the obligatory backdrop for the reconditioned children - Extendeds - who we now know as Sting, Auel and Stellar. Other than that, it served no other purpose (unless it was tackled in the Astray manga). This also goes the same for Stellar - was her memory wiped when Auel died?

Probably since her memory of Shinn was supposedly wiped as well. Anyway to finish off my rant about the lame memory-wipe thing: it was so lame, it never fully did the job it was supposed to anyway (i.e. Auel "thinking" he remembered Gaia being in the hangar, Neo recalling memories of Mwu, Stellar NOT forgetting Shinn, etc.)!

Sazelyt · 2008-04-24, 00:08

Do you need anything more than an arrogant brat named Shinn?

But, excluding that I think the problem was speeding up the second part. They could have had a better storyline by slowing the things down, by not making the earth forces to suddenly become the forces to be easily trashed, and by not making Durandal only a half-way demon. For me, I felt the ending as being faster-paced and having a lower-intensity compared to the original, and that was not a good thing.

2008-04-20, 01:35	Link #663
WhiteWings Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Santa Clara, California	Too many characters to deal with but not enough episodes and that the new characters wern't able to keep up with the characters of the old. __________________ "Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anybody driving faster is a maniac?" – *George Carlin*

2008-04-21, 17:11	Link #667
Lolipopo Srsly ? Artist Join Date: Apr 2008	SHINN ! He was reponsible of everything Athrun's regression, Cagalli's tears, Kira's infinite power...without him nothing will have going this way... __________________

2008-04-22, 02:50	Link #668
Eidolon Sniper Tsubasa No Kami Artist Join Date: May 2004 Location: Returning to my Place as the QUEEN...XD	I'd pretty much say GSD was a failure because of a badly written story. Characters were plentiful, but during episode 13 up, the characters now only serve as "stand in characters", with no purpose at all, except just to....appear in the show. Also, the Gundams. I never realized it was very easy to create Gundams like that! And EVERYBODY can have a Gundam too. The grunts are cannon fodder, even Gundams can be cannon fodder. seriously, where's the ace and Gundam in this show? Gundams were feared because of the pilots who also pilot them, as well as carrying the trademark, Gundam (which was now disproven in Gundam 00 lol ). The SEs made it even worse...it's not that Fukuda doesn't want to make Shinn or Kira an enemy in the fans' POV, he was just scared to let that happen, and so opted for Athrun instead. If he was really serious that "Kira is off the path of justice" in one of his unreal interviews, then he would go on and do some SEs that makes Kira like that, but sadly no. Cagalli and Athrun were destroyed as characters. Reused animations. Also loved how Fukuda retconned and made the Druggie Gundam responsible for Shinn's family's death, lol. Dullindal suddenly became the "evil, obligatory" villain. Rampant fanservice....errm, the Archangel bath scene looks and feels so much like Tenchi Muyo...I don't mind seeing spaceship baths in Tenchi Muyo, but it disturbs me in GSD for some reason. __________________ Ethereal Exiled Queen. NATCH~~~!!!

2008-04-22, 06:17	Link #670
Eidolon Sniper Tsubasa No Kami Artist Join Date: May 2004 Location: Returning to my Place as the QUEEN...XD	Yes, it was, in one of his nonsensical interviews. that being said, we all do know very well that we should not believe Fukuda in any way. Also, the TSA fight in the ending reminded mne too much of a Final Fantasy summoning sequence...in a very bad way... __________________ Ethereal Exiled Queen. NATCH~~~!!!

2008-04-22, 06:21	Link #671
tbl Affably Evil Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Hammerspace or Australia, I forget which	I liked GSD. The trick to enjoying the series is to pretend that Haysoos Yamato was still the protagonist instead of Shinn. __________________ Destroy. Destroy. Destroy. Slowly, completely, gently beyond comparison, cruelly to the point of numbness, I'll violate your life. That's right. The instant I rip off your limbs, tear open your rib and pull out your intestines, biting into your neck as you scream in agony, chewing through your eyes as I ignore your pleas for mercy and spreading your brains on the ground like butter! I am sane, well more or less

2008-04-19, 02:42	Link #661
yezhanquan Observer/Bookman wannabe Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Singapore Age: 38	GSD had plenty of holes. Anyway, after looking through the seiyu list, I was convinced that GSD was nothing more than a frat party for the seiyu involved. I feel that Seed was pretty ok. Not spectacular, but definitely not mediocre.

2008-04-19, 08:26	Link #662
RedWing Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2007	Too many reused plots. Gundams just got stolen? That's never happened before. The main character just disobeyed orders and returned a female back to the enemy! What Innovative ideas they can come up with Orb is being attacked? Wow that's original OMG it "Neo" Genesis! Never seen anything like that before.

2008-04-20, 04:18	Link #664
anselfir Style Über Alles Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: NYC/Chicago	it didn't fail. provided lots of lulz moments, which is its aspiration anyway. the so called plot and content are just pretensions, the real business lies in the gundamu and the chicks seems like most of the people who say gsd failed are taking gundamu entirely too seriously.

2008-04-21, 00:55	Link #665
Tkpenalty I Want GN Flag II Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: A-LAWLS Base (orly?)	Too much beam spamming and repeated scenes like in redwing's avatar :P. GSD just didnt work, after ep10, where it started going downhill. You could tell which eps were properly planned and which werent-after EP10 I think they started to rush.....

2008-04-21, 17:07	Link #666
Tendou88 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008	Repeated battle scenes are unforgiveable !!!!!!!! and to many summary episode... is like they slacked and wanted to end it fast. The first ending was very lame, but the final plus saved it

2008-04-22, 05:11	Link #669
Killer Tomato Member Join Date: Mar 2008	Lol...I think the reasons of why GSD failed has been repeated countless times...maybe we should just close this thread and move on... @ Eidolon_Sniper: Fukuda actually said Kira was "Off the path of justice"?

2008-04-22, 06:32	Link #672
Eidolon Sniper Tsubasa No Kami Artist Join Date: May 2004 Location: Returning to my Place as the QUEEN...XD	Actually, you don't need to pretend. That's the very sad part of it. __________________ Ethereal Exiled Queen. NATCH~~~!!!

2008-04-22, 20:31	Link #675
Derringer Bluefin Distribution Scanlator Join Date: Nov 2006	Why are we grave digging? In any case I want to point out for people using the DVDs/CDs as an indicator of success , that, yes, this was the chief profit contributer. However Gundam shows need to have really high GunPla/toy sales. A lot of R&D goes into transfering a design into a working model kit that spans several grades and toys and they expect that investment to be returned several times over. This didn't happen as planned. Only certain mecha designs were able to accomplish this resulting in an over estimated demand. Also, it was mentioned by Foxpaws a while ago that the lack of inexpensive later designs such as the Legend, Justice, and Akatsuki in the small FG 1/144 format contributed highly to the gunpla weakness. The fans wanted Gundams, not ZAKUS or GOUFs or DOMs or other things. Of course the old UC designs were put in there because they were supposed to be a throw back for older fans to encourage them to invest in buying the other Destiny designs. Didn't happen. The older fans for the most part didn't bite. Destiny revealed two things: Older male fans are not likely to be attracted to a new Gundam even if there are Universal Century references and young female fans don't have the same merchandise tastes as male fans. And finally, it's very hard to get newer Gundam fans to check out older Gundam series.

2008-04-22, 23:48	Link #677
Critias Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2004	Ok gonna jump in here. I rewatched the series in its entirety. For me, the series started losing credibility was when they revealed that EA could erase memories. I felt this cheated Sting, Auel, and Stellar out of better character development. Let's take for example when Auel flips out, says Stellar's block word, and she runs off. When Phantom Pain finds out what has happened, we COULD have had Sting and Auel go after her out of concern for a teammate since it was shown that they at least have SOME form of comraderie. But what do we get instead? NOPE! Memory wipe, Sting and Auel just fight for kicks. Lame. They COULD have gone with the whole "getting back our teammate" angle, and that MAY have made the trio more likeable and viewers could relate to them. Nah, the writers/director decided they weren't worth keeping since Yamato and co. were still around. Another example: Auel dies, Sting memory wiped. We could have had Sting go get some revenge for the missing Stellar and dead Auel, but now he doesn't even know who the hell they are. Yippee. So the whole memory wipe thing was a convenient way of 1) copping out of new character development because of Kira and friends, 2) a convenient way of making Neo into Mwu. They could have gone with so many different paths at the start of the whole memory pod thing. I think the memory pods was the start of GSD's nonsense. It just snowballed into oblivion afterward.

2008-04-23, 00:02	Link #678
Eidolon Sniper Tsubasa No Kami Artist Join Date: May 2004 Location: Returning to my Place as the QUEEN...XD	Oh wow I can't believe I've forgotten about Neo "just because there isn't an interesting adult about so we resurrected Andrew Waltfeld" Lorrnoke. Also, that facility in Lodonia didn't actually make enough sense just to point out that EA are the sadist and most miserable villains the CE universe has ever known. I can't recall if Rey had an awful experience in there (as he lost it when he saw all the children in the EA labs - see, this is another loophole ). The Lodonia labs were only presented in a couple of episodes and served as the obligatory backdrop for the reconditioned children - Extendeds - who we now know as Sting, Auel and Stellar. Other than that, it served no other purpose (unless it was tackled in the Astray manga). This also goes the same for Stellar - was her memory wiped when Auel died? __________________ Ethereal Exiled Queen. NATCH~~~!!!

2008-04-24, 00:08	Link #680
Sazelyt Μ ε r c ü r υ Join Date: Jun 2004	Do you need anything more than an arrogant brat named Shinn? But, excluding that I think the problem was speeding up the second part. They could have had a better storyline by slowing the things down, by not making the earth forces to suddenly become the forces to be easily trashed, and by not making Durandal only a half-way demon. For me, I felt the ending as being faster-paced and having a lower-intensity compared to the original, and that was not a good thing.