Macross Frontier - Episode 06 Discussion / Poll

[Haesslich]

Originally Posted by Wesley84

So basically everyone in the Macross Universe is an Idol-worshipper that thinks all policy decisions should be ran by whatever diva that happens to be hot that particular month? Does everyone seriously think what they believe or say matters?

Sheryl wasn't at all professional. A true professional would have known her place, said her piece, and gotten back to shake, shake, shakin' it.

Sheryl's an idol and a singer... and given this is a universe where a singer saved everyone's asses by introducing the Zentradi to culture, idol singers have some influence, if only on the level of popular cultural icon rather than as a major political mover-and-shaker. Basically, people will listen to her ideas and thrill to her performances, but won't be rushing into gunfire for her. Still, given that she's from the Macross Galaxy, and everyone knows that, they'd naturally be asking her questions about it - like people ask questions of famous people like the Dalai Lama about how he feels about Chinese control of Tibet.

And she's a professional in that she kept singing, even while her home fleet was being massacred - the fact that she made her opinion clear (remember, they DID ask about her opinion regarding whether Frontier should ignore Galaxy's plea for help) doesn't mean she's less professional - just that she's not politically-minded. You can be a professional and a person too - that's why she spent a day just pulling Alto around, making him a tour guide.

Remember that she didn't immediately blurt out that Frontier should help Galaxy and that he was an idiot for thinking they'd ignore Frontier after that attack... but that the question was posed to her first. On top of which, humans and their allied Zentradi are alone out there - if fleets won't help one another, then who will? It's not like the Vajra were ignoring Frontier ANYWAYS, and it's likely they'll attack Frontier, whether or not they send help to Galaxy or not. What the Frontier DOES stand to gain from this is data on the Vajra before they too get attacked; it would help to know what sort of tactics the Vajra use in large fleets before they arrive, so you can have some countermeasures or strategies and tactics prepared to deal with them.

[ani_d]

Originally Posted by Wesley84

Why did Alto lie? Because he was at the mall with Sheryl. THE Sheryl. Bad enough Michael was hazing him about it, he didn't want to compound the misunderstandings further with Ranka. He wanted to spare himself the grief of being in a celebrity's shadow.

And need I remind the reason he went to the mall in the first place was because he spotted Ranka getting on the train?

Alto did have that dishonest look on his face when he lied to Ranka, but he certainly didn't do it on purpose. Atleast to me, he didn't. He probably felt the need to lie because he didn't think it was a big deal or anything. Sheryl and her earrings have nothing to do with Ranka, afterall lol I also don't think he would be that open to say he followed her and Michael to the mall. That little lying scene to me just shows how dense Alto is when it comes to Ranka. Not that it's a bad thing. Even if it was mean, I think it's consistent with his character.

I think the earring thing was resolved too quickly. Sure, it was inserted in after the pilot episode to give Sheryl a reason to stalk Alto, but it ended up feeling forced, especially when Alto hanged the earring up in his cockpit. That seemed out of character of him, doubly so when he was smiling at the darn thing.

lol "darn thing". While I also think it's too fast that Alto would show fondness over Sheryl's earrings, I don't think it's too ridiculous. Can you say, "It started with a kiss?"

They're really massaging Ranka's character more than they are Sheryl's. That's what I think. I think this episode proves it, along with adding in the earring thing.

All I see right now is Sheryl's character development, and so far, it's been going great. I hope you are right though. I want to see Ranka snap out of her dependency.

[Wesley84]

Originally Posted by cerrian

I think you mis-analyzed that interview. It was my understanding that not only was Sheryl declaring that she'll perform her concert, contrary to general assumption that she would cancel it, but also that she believes Frontier's rescue mission will be successful and that Galaxy will be safe to return to. Nothing in that interview indicated her intentions to put herself at risk by defying the military and traveling to Galaxy while it was a hostile area (good luck at finding a pilot willing to shuttle her in that situation).

You got to remember the scene with Leon and Cathy, the whole interview was a PR move by Frontier's government to build confidence and calm the fears of the general populace + military. As for her insistence to continue with the concert, that's just another point reinforcing the professionalism her character has displayed throughout the series.

She rather boldy stated she would return to Galaxy after her concert. I'm convinced she meant that literally, at least at the time she said it. Whether someone will talk her out of it or stop her outright is unknown.

Then again, maybe what she says doesn't matter. As long as she's got that confidence and that attitude, people will feel better.

Originally Posted by ani_d

Alto did have that dishonest look on his face when he lied to Ranka, but he certainly didn't do it on purpose. Atleast to me, he didn't. He probably felt the need to lie because he didn't think it was a big deal or anything. Sheryl and her earrings have nothing to do with Ranka, afterall lol I also don't think he would be that open to say he followed her and Michael to the mall. That little lying scene to me just shows how dense Alto is when it comes to Ranka. Not that it's a bad thing. Even if it was mean, I think it's consistent with his character.

It was the most consistent he'd been the whole episode.

lol "darn thing". While I also think it's too fast that Alto would show fondness over Sheryl's earrings, I don't think it's too ridiculous. Can you say, "It started with a kiss?"

He saw her boobs. Who cares about a kiss on the cheek?

All I see right now is Sheryl's character development, and so far, it's been going great. I hope you are right though. I want to see Ranka snap out of her dependency.

What I meant was they're putting more care into Ranka's developement. Into her scenes. She has more of them than Sheryl, and she didn't recieve a stupid tacked on gimmick like an earring just so she could meet Alto, and have a reason to stalk him.

Up until this episode, Sheryl scenes were all about how awesome Sheryl is, and the moment she's not awesome, she falls flat.

[Sinestra]

Not too bad of an episode looks like next week its not a skirmish but an actual battle which is what i have been waiting for. Ranka getting scouted was no surprise but her luck is far from great she gets scouted then her brother and her friends head to the front. Sheryl put a pretty brave front but thats to be expected from a performer. I liked her conversation with Alto just before he departed and im sure no one was surprised that she asked Alto to keep one earing. I really like these 2together even though i love Ranka too, my attention is just on Sheryl at the moment.

Anyone else notice that badass shot of a Goliath in next weeks preview? If you missed here it is god i love those walking tanks.

[Haesslich]

Originally Posted by Wesley84

She rather boldy stated she would return to Galaxy after her concert. I'm convinced she meant that literally, at least at the time she said it. Whether someone will talk her out of it or stop her outright is unknown.

Then again, maybe what she says doesn't matter. As long as she's got that confidence and that attitude, people will feel better.

She said she'd return to Galaxy after the concert, in order to show she believed that they would win and beat the Bugs. The question is 'when' since she merely said after the concert... and if the Galaxy's dead (read: Zerged by the bugs into a hiveship, assimilated into a cube, turned into a space hulk, or otherwise rendered unfit for human occupancy), she may not to get to go back after all.

Morale is half the battle, and given the low morale of the NUNS, making heartening statements like this is being professional, as much as (now famous) ones like "I shall return" or "We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard." Remember, her job is to INSPIRE people as well as entertain. On that front, she's done a bang-up job on Ranka and Alto. They may have gone on to try what they wanted to do anyways, but she did give each a little push with kind words (more Ranka than Alto).

What I find more interesting is that Ozma was warning Ranka to stop singing if things get weird - does he know of some connection to the Vajra and her voice that everyone else doesn't? Or is he telling her to get to safety instead of trying to be Minmay should the Vajra attack again? Well, that and having Bobby immediately cringe at Ozma's statement and his quick retreat - it seems he's quite genre savvy and knows that was a jinx.

Originally Posted by Sinestra

Anyone else notice that badass shot of a Goliath in next weeks preview? If you missed here it is god i love those walking tanks.

That's Canaria's VB-6 Konig Monster, as far as I can tell.

[Wesley84]

Originally Posted by Haesslich

She said she'd return to Galaxy after the concert, in order to show she believed that they would win and beat the Bugs.

She said no such thing. It was concert then straight to the colony. She never once mentioned victory or winning any fights. In that interview at least, victory goddess she was not. In fact, she basically said being concerned for their own safety was a cowardly way of thinking.

Morale is half the battle, and given the low morale of the NUNS, making heartening statements like this is being professional, as much as (now famous) ones like "I shall return" or "We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard." Remember, her job is to INSPIRE people as well as entertain. On that front, she's done a bang-up job on Ranka and Alto. They may have gone on to try what they wanted to do anyways, but she did give each a little push with kind words (more Ranka than Alto).

She's good on a personal basis, but she won't be winning any Inspirational Speaker of the Year awards.

That's Canaria's VB-6 Konig Monster, as far as I can tell.

Why does the medic have an artillery rig? Is she supposed to save injured pilots using that?

[ickem]

Originally Posted by Wesley84

So basically everyone in the Macross Universe is an Idol-worshipper that thinks all policy decisions should be ran by whatever diva that happens to be hot that particular month? Does everyone seriously think what they believe or say matters?

Sheryl wasn't at all professional. A true professional would have known her place, said her piece, and gotten back to shake, shake, shakin' it.

She knows her place quite well, as was shown in the first episode when she realized she could do nothing for her fans and her best move was to be evacuated by her security. But this instance was different, the place where she was born and grew up was at stake and there were probably many people who wished to do as she said, "Are you are trying to say this, "We should hide under our beds, hold our breaths, and hope that the Vajura will miss us while we watch Galaxy get destroyed"? Since the reporter actually voiced the question, it is doubtless that a significant portion of the Frontier population felt that way. Macross is a world where people likely take the words of idols/singers as seriously as those of their political leaders and her voice carries great weight. Thus she felt that she could help both Galaxy and Frontier by preempting any notion of trying to hide from the Vajura.

Originally Posted by Wesley84

Too bad her character developement rating is below par, and that's what really matters when you get right down to it.

The problem that I see with that statement is that Sheryl's had more character development than any other character with perhaps the exception of Alto. These past few episodes were used to move opinion of Sheryl from the unlikable character of the first episode to a place where we can empathize with her thoughts and actions. All the development we've seen of Ranka is that she isn't Ozma's real sister and that she has some sort of relationship with the Vajura. And the development that she has had with regards to her dream to be a singer is due to having met Alto and Sheryl.

Originally Posted by Wesley84

She rather boldy stated she would return to Galaxy after her concert. I'm convinced she meant that literally, at least at the time she said it. Whether someone will talk her out of it or stop her outright is unknown.

Then again, maybe what she says doesn't matter. As long as she's got that confidence and that attitude, people will feel better.

Did you really believe that she meant that she was going to go back immediately? If you really did, then I'm not sure how to convince you otherwise, but I saw it as her saying that she believed that Galaxy would survive so that she *would* be able to return to Galaxy eventually.

[ickem]

Originally Posted by Wesley84

Why does the medic have an artillery rig? Is she supposed to save injured pilots using that?

Since the medic is so important, she has to remain safe. Plus she has to be able to get to the wreckage of any unit that needs help and get them back safely. There's also the fact the unit if pretty small and she likely provides backup whenever it is needed ala when she said she could go help and help Ozma if she got the launch clearance a few episodes ago.

[Haesslich]

Originally Posted by Wesley84

She said no such thing. It was concert then straight to the colony. She never once mentioned victory or winning any fights. In that interview at least, victory goddess she was not. In fact, she basically said being concerned for their own safety was a cowardly way of thinking.

I just rewatched the speech - she said she'd be going back to Galaxy after the concert was done. That comment came right after someone asked if they should even be bothering to rescue Galaxy, since by doing so they might provoke a retaliatory attack... and everyone assumed she was cancelling the concert. She didn't say 'right away', but that she would return to Galaxy - timeframe not specified.

Besides, if she said 'I will return to the Galaxy once we're sure it's clear' would've been cowardly - this way, she played the 'we will win' assumption that the Frontier government wants to give the citizens, instead of having everyone assume they're about to lose forces for no purpose and that they're doomed because the Vajra have shown up.

Originally Posted by Wesley84

She's good on a personal basis, but she won't be winning any Inspirational Speaker of the Year awards.

Since when does she have to be winning those? Even Minmay, the vaunted idol of the First Space War, wasn't exactly the world's best inspirational speaker. What she DID do was inspire those around her with her (at times naive) belief that things WOULD go well, as long as everyone did their part, IIRC. But if she looks like she believes, then that's enough to bump morale up and keep everyone from panicking because they believe that they're doomed. That's her job - to make people feel good about things, as well as to give them something to look up to/at.

Originally Posted by Wesley84

Why does the medic have an artillery rig? Is she supposed to save injured pilots using that?

No clue. I guess they they couldn't figure out who else should be piloting the artillery unit, and this way she's out of the (direct) line of fire most of the time. But she does show up in the OP with it, so it isn't a surprise. Of course, this is the universe which had a captain abandon his post to jump into a fighter and kick Protodevlin ass (Max Jenius), gave another idol singer his own customized front-line fighter (VF-19) with which he thrashed the Protodevlin with the power of his passion, and introduced us to the Birdman.

[Cadorna]

Originally Posted by Haesslich

No clue. I guess they they couldn't figure out who else should be piloting the artillery unit, and this way she's out of the (direct) line of fire most of the time. But she does show up in the OP with it, so it isn't a surprise. Of course, this is the universe which had a captain abandon his post to jump into a fighter and kick Protodevlin ass (Max Jenius), gave another idol singer his own customized front-line fighter (VF-19) with which he thrashed the Protodevlin with the power of his passion, and introduced us to the Birdman.

Well i don 't expect the same happend here, this series has a more classic macross style

[Wesley84]

Originally Posted by ickem

She knows her place quite well, as was shown in the first episode when she realized she could do nothing for her fans and her best move was to be evacuated by her security.

I think this scene was intended to hold significance but got overwritten by the Darn Earring subplot. Obviously there'd been some revisions since December of last year, and I think Sheryl's character had more than her fair share of them.

Macross is a world where people likely take the words of idols/singers as seriously as those of their political leaders and her voice carries great weight. Thus she felt that she could help both Galaxy and Frontier by preempting any notion of trying to hide from the Vajura.

I think it's stupid to give a whit about what a celebrity thinks simply because they're a celebrity. I'll just leave it at that.

The problem that I see with that statement is that Sheryl's had more character development than any other character with perhaps the exception of Alto. These past few episodes were used to move opinion of Sheryl from the unlikable character of the first episode to a place where we can empathize with her thoughts and actions. All the development we've seen of Ranka is that she isn't Ozma's real sister and that she has some sort of relationship with the Vajura. And the development that she has had with regards to her dream to be a singer is due to having met Alto and Sheryl.

Correction. I think people made assumptions about her character and were proved wrong (I know that was the case with me, but then we only had the first episode for months and months and that was changed). Sheryl's been characterized and played a role in the developement of others, but mostly Ranka. Her Darn Earring subplot was tacked on so she had a good excuse to go out looking for Alto and that finally ended this episode with the only developement we have to show for it is that she's an orphan who never knew her mother (hints at a mysterious origin?).

She's a great personality, but don't mistake impression for developement, and most definiently don't allow Sheryl to steal scenes from the characters they're meant for.

Did you really believe that she meant that she was going to go back immediately? If you really did, then I'm not sure how to convince you otherwise, but I saw it as her saying that she believed that Galaxy would survive so that she *would* be able to return to Galaxy eventually.

*Sheryl angrily takes the mic from the reporter and grabs the camera*

"I'll perform then I'll...I'll return to Galaxy!"

What am I supposed to think? With that attitude? With that temperment?

[Boduar]

Am I the only one who is getting Ozma is going to die vibes after watching this episode?

[Haesslich]

Originally Posted by Boduar

Am I the only one who is getting Ozma is going to die vibes after watching this episode?

I hope not. Let's check off all the things that he's done wrong so far:

1. He's Skull Leader
2. He's a survivor of a previous Vajra attack, as a combatant.
3. He has a little sister character to traumatize with his death.
4. He has had a relationship with a Bridge Bunny (Lt. Glass). And it feels like a Claudia LaSalle/Roy Focker relationship.
5. He made Ranka a promise.
6. He jinxed his squad with his promise. Look at Bobby's wince.
7. He said he couldn't be overprotective forever (aka: he won't be around forever).

About the ONLY thing he hasn't done is ordered pineapple salad yet. Now if Cathy mentions it in passing, then we'll know he'll be dead an episode or two later.

[Wesley84]

Originally Posted by Boduar

Am I the only one who is getting Ozma is going to die vibes after watching this episode?

Nah, his one-sided phone conversation pretty much guaranteed the lives of everyone for the next few episodes at least. "I'll defininently make sure everyone comes back!" A line so Shonen there's no way it could backfire on him.

[Cadorna]

Originally Posted by Wesley84

Nah, his one-sided phone conversation pretty much guaranteed the lives of everyone for the next few episodes at least. "I'll defininently make sure everyone comes back!" A line so Shonen there's no way it could backfire on him.

This is Macross, not a shonen, i think he is pretty f*** up (next ep or the 9)

[Sinestra]

Originally Posted by Haesslich

That's Canaria's VB-6 Konig Monster, as far as I can tell.

Hum i will he to look into that either way i hope we see some pretty heavy artillery in the next episode even though im sure most of the fighting will be seen from the pilots prospective.

[stormy001_M1A2]

Was it me or the animation quality dropped a lot for this ep?

[cerrian]

Originally Posted by stormy001_M1A2

Was it me or the animation quality dropped a lot for this ep?

The CG and backgrounds are just as gorgeous as it has been throughout the series, but the character drawings, motion, and general details have been taking a hit these last 2 episodes. Every time I watch Sheryl's Diamond Crevasse sequence, I can't help but flinch at how badly she was drawn and animated. The background, reverse snow effects, lighting, and earring were pretty damn nice to the eyes....but her face, hair, arms and fingers are horrible animated. What a waste.

On another note, someone mentioned that they were recycling footage when the recon VFs launched from the carrier. It appears he was partially correct. It's the same background, camera movement, and effects as seen from ep 1. The difference lies in the VF model they used for this scene. It's like the production team simply reused the launch sequence but swaped out the VF CGs for the recon VFs. Let's hope the production team doesn't rely on this little trick too often.

[kuyaaids]

Originally Posted by cerrian

See that table Alto & gang were sitting at celebrating Ranka's signing? Need to get one of those tables for myself.

Hehehe wait for Microsoft Surface to show up at a Hotel near you (I've played with it when I made a visit to Microsoft a month ago). Awesome piece of errr table

[Westlo]

Wesley84 how is Sheryl's earring plot tacked on when it's been in the 5 month old (and that's ignoring all the prep time before it started to get published) Frontier manga from the start? Don't act like they came up with this idea in February... just because it wasn't in Deculture...

Originally Posted by Zekori

Well,

Spoiler for maybe, spoilers:

From my perspective, I found similarities from the original series* with the love triangle and then now similarities with Zero, I won't mention plus or seven since that was sorta different.

Ranka reminds me a lot of Mao Nome, especially hugging onto Alto and looking towards his advice much like Mao as intrigued by Shin Kudo's knowledge and experience which often led to her being rebellious of her sister Sara and the traditions of the islands.

So the love triangle reminds me more so of the Shin, Mao, and Sara one from Zero more fleshed out, to me anyways at this point.

Interesting that you say that, you'll see why later