Shanks / Red Haired Pirates Discussion

[Nameless]

I'll step in to turn the tides of this argument.

Neodraq38 you're not very smart. You keep "making up" circumstances that would be evident to Shanks not being strong, but it's all stuff you CANT prove. It's like you're trying to use what YOU think was going on in the character's minds at the time of those incidents as evidence, even though NOTHING said in the anime or manga backs up what you said.

I've fought people before and met with them again afterward to talk about other things. I didn't fight with them in a duel just out of spite. What's done is done. You make it seem like Hawkeyes choosing not to duel Shanks was not only his choice but also because he felt Shanks was inferior.

Let's get something straight. Nothing you say holds any weight without REAL evidence. I'm talking about DIRECT quotes and DIRECT facts. Not what you THINK happened or goes on.

The truth is, Hawkeyes intention was to go to Shanks to tell him that Luffy had a bounty on his head after defeating the mermen. That's it. He wasn't there to show how much powerful he was than Shanks. He wasn't there to say "OMGz i am teh more better den u in da combatz so i chooz not 2 duels you lolz".

He went OUT OF HIS way, a Shichibukai and the WORLD's greatest swordsman, to Shanks's island to tell him about Luffy's progress. None of Shanks's men responded in fear to Hawkeyes. They didn't recoil back and go "OMGZ it's Hawkeyes", they just asked why he was there and he said he was there to see Shanks.

What we know from the manga/anime is that Whitebeard doesn't intimidate Shanks either. Shanks also doesn't like to fight. We saw from the fourth episode that he'd let a low level marine beat him up, rather than have his men or him engage in unnecessary combat. That's NOT out of fear. We already know some of the strength of his men. Usopp's father beat Daddy Masterson in a gun duel, like NOTHING. He just shot him, beat him, and didn't finish him off. He works for Shanks.

All of these REAL facts can lead us to believe that Shanks might be powerful enough to compare to the Shichibukai, only he doesn't rule that way. He probably doesn't attack or intimidate the government, which is why he might not be classified as a Shichibukai.

So quit running around the forum posting like Hawkeyes is sitting next to you going, "Yeah you tell em, you're the only one that knows me!", cuz you don't.

[Nameless]

As far as Shanks losing his arm. Again, the circumstance in the anime episode was that Luffy was GOING to get eaten, but Shanks merely put his arm in place of Luffy's. Maybe the act of attacking the sea dragon wouldn't have changed the fate of Luffy.

Maybe attacking the dragon would've taken a fragment of a second that was needed to save Luffy in the first place. What we know is that Shanks was NOWHERE in sight when Luffy fell into the water, but Shanks appeared and held Luffy safely when it counted the most.

Him losing his arm is no bearing on whether he's strong or not.

Pelle lost his life saving Alabasta, does that make him weak? Because if you were strong you'd just take the bomb away from Alabasta and not be hurt at all right? Because impending circumstances don't make excuses for strength right?

Is Luffy weak because he could only beat Crocodile when using Water/Blood to prevent Crocodile from turning into sand? Is Luffy weak because the only way he can beat Enel is because his Devil Fruit makes him immune to lightning?

You shouldn't speculate the way you do because it makes you look rather ignorant.

[neodrag38]

Originally Posted by Friendless

This act of him losing his arm rather than destroying the beast can show many things about his character... Also guessing from how he didn't fight the pirates who attacked him in the bar. He could simply have compassion for all living things that he refuses to hurt something without a proper reason to his perspective. Sure, the creature may have tried to eat Luffy, however it's in that creature's nature to survive and feed. Perhaps he refuses to demonstrate his power with such a simple-minded task... Perhaps it was a method of obtaining more loyalty from his fellow companions through respect rather than fear... Perhaps he was showing luffy that a real pirate would sacrofice him/herself for one he cares for therefore he'd have this lesson for his future adventure.

Whatever the reason, it's reasons you don't know how to comprehend. Calling someone weak when they sit there and get beat up and humilated when they have the power to destroy everyone there? I consider that a strength.

Hmm, it seems that you missed the point. I was clarifying the given point of view of someone much less made it clear that I wasn't operating on the absolute belief that Shanks was as weak as say for example Spandam.

Now on to your points. You seem to suggest the possibility that Shanks didn't do anything to this creature because of some respect life or another. Yet again if he truly was so strong he should be able to take the thing out without needing to kill it either. So your argument still has holes in it. Again, please remember that I simply brought up what someone else did on how odd it was for someone whose suppose to be so strong to get hurt by a creature that Luffy takes out later with one move. Not claiming that Shanks is uber weak.

Neodraq38 you're not very smart. You keep "making up" circumstances that would be evident to Shanks not being strong, but it's all stuff you CANT prove. It's like you're trying to use what YOU think was going on in the character's minds at the time of those incidents as evidence, even though NOTHING said in the anime or manga backs up what you said.

And you double posting instead of having the sense to use the edit function is?

I'm not making up much of anything when it isn't much a show of strength comparable to a guy who takes out a multiple ship having pirate fleet when the other loses his arm to something Luffy takes out with one move. Not made up because these things actually happen. Yet again, I made clear that I'm not suggesting that Shanks has absolutely no chance of being strong. So I guess this is simply a matter of you going out of your way not to read my post beyond thinking that I'm suggesting an absolute when I make clear on multiple occassions that I'm not in a fashion that should make it obvious.

I've fought people before and met with them again afterward to talk about other things. I didn't fight with them in a duel just out of spite. What's done is done. You make it seem like Hawkeyes choosing not to duel Shanks was not only his choice but also because he felt Shanks was inferior.

I'm suggesting that they would fight a duel out of some sense of friendly rivalry or another. That if they really were equals they would have a duel in a fashion that good old rivals do. Believe it or not you don't have to challenge someone you consider a rival only with the emotional of spite on mind. Much less that Hawkeye talked to Shanks in a fashion where he does consider him inferior. Unless you think the comment about Shanks having only one arm was a compliment.

Let's get something straight. Nothing you say holds any weight without REAL evidence. I'm talking about DIRECT quotes and DIRECT facts. Not what you THINK happened or goes on.

The truth is, Hawkeyes intention was to go to Shanks to tell him that Luffy had a bounty on his head after defeating the mermen. That's it. He wasn't there to show how much powerful he was than Shanks. He wasn't there to say "OMGz i am teh more better den u in da combatz so i chooz not 2 duels you lolz".

So you are suggesting that I only think that Hawkeyes brought up Shanks only having arm when saying no to a duel rather than it actually being illustrated in both the anime and manga? Since you seem to think I never use any fact. I make it quite clear that I don't operate on the idea of my point of view being invariable but it seems I have to go even more out of my way to make the obvious more obvious. Do I have to put in BOLD that I'm not speaking on absolutes before you finally get it?

He went OUT OF HIS way, a Shichibukai and the WORLD's greatest swordsman, to Shanks's island to tell him about Luffy's progress. None of Shanks's men responded in fear to Hawkeyes. They didn't recoil back and go "OMGZ it's Hawkeyes", they just asked why he was there and he said he was there to see Shanks.

Tell that to the guys who were shaking right when Mihawk came in. And the fact that Shanks closest crewmates along with himself were seemingly hungover or that them in particularly acting cowardly wouldn't exactly look good. I do hope you know what seemingly means before you jump to a "he thinks his word is infallible" conclusion. It remains that Mihawk still didn't show any real interest to fight Shanks and that a duel isn't something done solely out of spite. It's not like Mihawk fought Zoro hating him nor did Zoro fight hating Mihawk.

What we know from the manga/anime is that Whitebeard doesn't intimidate Shanks either. Shanks also doesn't like to fight. We saw from the fourth episode that he'd let a low level marine beat him up, rather than have his men or him engage in unnecessary combat. That's NOT out of fear. We already know some of the strength of his men. Usopp's father beat Daddy Masterson in a gun duel, like NOTHING. He just shot him, beat him, and didn't finish him off. He works for Shanks.

And Whitebeard isn't intimidated by Shanks. And I don't remember Shanks meeting Whitebeard in person yet so you can't really say it's an absolute that Shanks isn't intimidated when he hasn't even met up with the guy yet. And that guy who was hitting on him wasn't a marine along with that Daddy Masterson thing being filler actually. And here we are again you still jumping to the conclusion that I was making some invariable minded post that Shanks is simply weak.

All of these REAL facts can lead us to believe that Shanks might be powerful enough to compare to the Shichibukai, only he doesn't rule that way. He probably doesn't attack or intimidate the government, which is why he might not be classified as a Shichibukai.

So quit running around the forum posting like Hawkeyes is sitting next to you going, "Yeah you tell em, you're the only one that knows me!", cuz you don't.

I wouldn't call the occurence of a MARINE beating on Shanks fact. Much less that it seems that you treat your point of view of scenes as invariable while accusing me of the same thing. Good for you.

And I think the simple reason why he isn't a Shikibuchai would be the part where he hasn't gone up to the elders of the World Government since they are the ones who decide who becomes a Shikibuchai. You have to actually enter an agreement with them for this position. Shanks at least seems infamous enough to have this position but chooses not to do so.

In short, thank you for accusing me of something in your rant while doing the thing you criticize.

As far as Shanks losing his arm. Again, the circumstance in the anime episode was that Luffy was GOING to get eaten, but Shanks merely put his arm in place of Luffy's. Maybe the act of attacking the sea dragon wouldn't have changed the fate of Luffy.

Still seemingly showing a lack in the ability to multitask in taking down this creature and save Luffy at the same time. Again, not saying that this is irrefutable proof that Shanks is simply weak.

Maybe attacking the dragon would've taken a fragment of a second that was needed to save Luffy in the first place. What we know is that Shanks was NOWHERE in sight when Luffy fell into the water, but Shanks appeared and held Luffy safely when it counted the most.

Him losing his arm is no bearing on whether he's strong or not.

It's nice to see you listing what seems to be a possibility rather than acting like you can be invariable while others can't even though they aren't.

But then your second comment sadly does what you criticize.

Pelle lost his life saving Alabasta, does that make him weak? Because if you were strong you'd just take the bomb away from Alabasta and not be hurt at all right? Because impending circumstances don't make excuses for strength right?

Uh, no. I would judge Pelle to be weak in comparison to the higher level combative forces of the Grandline. Especially when Robin was enough to defeat him. Keep in mind that I don't put down weak as in meaning couldn't fight your way out of a paper bag. Much less it is pretty much impressive that he survived that explosion.

And the last I checked there's a good amount of difference between the explosion of a bomb and the scenario Shanks was in. Much less the result.

Is Luffy weak because he could only beat Crocodile when using Water/Blood to prevent Crocodile from turning into sand? Is Luffy weak because the only way he can beat Enel is because his Devil Fruit makes him immune to lightning?

You shouldn't speculate the way you do because it makes you look rather ignorant.

And I think you would have a hard time with that argument when Luffy considers himself weak, especially when the number of individuals that should be above him in combat power at the time would be quite high.

So it's interesting that you would speak of someone coming off ignorant when you clearly still seem to skip over the multiple times and past ending conversation that I directed to The Phenemenol. I suggest you spend time actually reading the entirety of someone's post rather than just jumping to a conclusion, contradicting yourself, and making insults. Including when I answered both of those post of your double post and see how easy it is to use something as simply as edit?

[Nameless]

Originally Posted by neodrag38

Now on to your points. You seem to suggest the possibility that Shanks didn't do anything to this creature because of some respect life or another. Yet again if he truly was so strong he should be able to take the thing out without needing to kill it either. So your argument still has holes in it. Again, please remember that I simply brought up what someone else did on how odd it was for someone whose suppose to be so strong to get hurt by a creature that Luffy takes out later with one move. Not claiming that Shanks is uber weak.

A person Luffy cares about wasn't in danger in that situation.

And you double posting instead of having the sense to use the edit function is?

I'm not making up much of anything when it isn't much a show of strength comparable to a guy who takes out a multiple ship having pirate fleet when the other loses his arm to something Luffy takes out with one move. Not made up because these things actually happen. Yet again, I made clear that I'm not suggesting that Shanks has absolutely no chance of being strong. So I guess this is simply a matter of you going out of your way not to read my post beyond thinking that I'm suggesting an absolute when I make clear on multiple occassions that I'm not in a fashion that should make it obvious.

Again, different situation entirely. Mihawk didn't have someone to save when he took out those fleets. You're right, those things DID happen. It's simply, Shanks was saving Luffy's life, Mihawk was destroying fleets of pirate ships for waking him up from a nap. Try explaining that, baka.

I'm suggesting that they would fight a duel out of some sense of friendly rivalry or another. That if they really were equals they would have a duel in a fashion that good old rivals do. Believe it or not you don't have to challenge someone you consider a rival only with the emotional of spite on mind. Much less that Hawkeye talked to Shanks in a fashion where he does consider him inferior. Unless you think the comment about Shanks having only one arm was a compliment.

Because YOU said so right? I'm a boxer, I've trained for over 4 years and even thought about going into MMA. I've been in a bar, sitting NEXT to a person I fought before that some would consider a rival of mine. We had a drink and talked about the street racing scene and that was it. We didn't fight, we didn't box, we didn't "have a friendly comparison of strength". Again, you're MAKING things up. You make it seem like just because YOU say friendly rivals should duel and they didn't, that Mihawk had no interest in fighting Shanks.
To the bold part: You didn't write the anime, so you wouldn't know whether rivals in it ALWAYS duel each other on sight. I personally get sick of people always wanting to box me, even if it's rivals. Does that make me weak? Say it to my face and we'll see.

How old are you anyway? I feel like I'm debating with a high school debate team kid that doesn't really know anything. You only bring up the things that make your argument stronger.

So you are suggesting that I only think that Hawkeyes brought up Shanks only having arm when saying no to a duel rather than it actually being illustrated in both the anime and manga? Since you seem to think I never use any fact. I make it quite clear that I don't operate on the idea of my point of view being invariable but it seems I have to go even more out of my way to make the obvious more obvious. Do I have to put in BOLD that I'm not speaking on absolutes before you finally get it?

Friendly insult. Or perhaps you've never heard of that either right? Maybe it was Hawkeyes using it as an excuse. "Oh I don't wanna duel you cuz you have one arm". Sounds like a cop out to me. On HAWKEYES' PART, NOT SHANKS. There's your bold. Shanks was well and ready to duel Hawkeyes even with only one arm, but Hawkeyes backed out using Shanks' one arm as an EXCUSE. Again, you only analyze the situation to favor your end. Something very common amongst pseudo intellectuals.

Tell that to the guys who were shaking right when Mihawk came in. And the fact that Shanks closest crewmates along with himself were seemingly hungover or that them in particularly acting cowardly wouldn't exactly look good. I do hope you know what seemingly means before you jump to a "he thinks his word is infallible" conclusion. It remains that Mihawk still didn't show any real interest to fight Shanks and that a duel isn't something done solely out of spite. It's not like Mihawk fought Zoro hating him nor did Zoro fight hating Mihawk.

Seemingly, meaning you're just making assumptions. Use the word that describes exactly what it means. Shanks' shipmates didn't act scared of Hawkeyes. The ones that saw him approaching, being so near the shore, were obviously peons. Even at that point, their reaction to Hawkeyes might be because Hawkeyes is not only a Shichibukai, but the greatest swordsman who is always looking for a fight.

Maybe the crewmen nearest Shanks weren't intimidated because they either know Shanks and Hawkeyes have no hostility toward each other or they aren't afraid of him even if he was.

And Whitebeard isn't intimidated by Shanks. And I don't remember Shanks meeting Whitebeard in person yet so you can't really say it's an absolute that Shanks isn't intimidated when he hasn't even met up with the guy yet. And that guy who was hitting on him wasn't a marine along with that Daddy Masterson thing being filler actually. And here we are again you still jumping to the conclusion that I was making some invariable minded post that Shanks is simply weak.

It's called suggestive reasoning. You keep making excuses for why Shanks isn't strong. Your posts rightfully can be interpreted as suggesting Shanks is weak. If I win a match and some weasel like you is on the sidelines making excuses for why I won, I would rightfully assume you were underminding my strength or capability to win a fight.

I wouldn't call the occurence of a MARINE beating on Shanks fact. Much less that it seems that you treat your point of view of scenes as invariable while accusing me of the same thing. Good for you.

Rhetoric exampling. You do it, so I'm doing it to you.

And I think the simple reason why he isn't a Shikibuchai would be the part where he hasn't gone up to the elders of the World Government since they are the ones who decide who becomes a Shikibuchai. You have to actually enter an agreement with them for this position. Shanks at least seems infamous enough to have this position but chooses not to do so.

Shanks has no need for it. He's not one of the chaotic pirates that seem to desire the role of a Shichibukai. From what I know, Mihawk and Crocodile are the only pirates I've actually seen that are on that level. I haven't read the manga far enough to know what the status is with Whitebeard/Blackbeard pirates. I only know that there's hostility between them and Ace is after Blackbeard.

In short, thank you for accusing me of something in your rant while doing the thing you criticize.

Only an idiot would take my rhetoric example as a serious part of my argument. But I guess for idiots I should label the parts of my argument that are sarcastic or rhetorical.

Still seemingly showing a lack in the ability to multitask in taking down this creature and save Luffy at the same time. Again, not saying that this is irrefutable proof that Shanks is simply weak.

It's not a lack of multitasking, so stop saying that. We don't know if he could still save Luffy at ALL if he would've tried to stop the monster. We also don't know what his strength in combat is. Do you think Mihawk would've been able to save Luffy, hold Luffy safely from drowning AND stop the monster without killing it? I don't. I think attacking the monster in a situation like that where part of your focus is on keeping Luffy alive and moving Luffy from harm's way, might put you in a position where you can't control your strength. The anime leads us to believe Shanks is strong, suggestively. The anime also leads us to believe Shanks is passive. (His avoiding the fight in the bar and even offering to clean the rum off the floor) The events in question lean more to the favor of people suggesting he lost his arm to save Luffy and not because he wasn't strong enough to stop the monster, grab Luffy AND keep Luffy from drowning. You're running out of cards.

It's nice to see you listing what seems to be a possibility rather than acting like you can be invariable while others can't even though they aren't.

But then your second comment sadly does what you criticize.

Nice. What is that... The third time you've brought up my rhetorical examples in your argument?

Uh, no. I would judge Pelle to be weak in comparison to the higher level combative forces of the Grandline. Especially when Robin was enough to defeat him. Keep in mind that I don't put down weak as in meaning couldn't fight your way out of a paper bag. Much less it is pretty much impressive that he survived that explosion.

Ahh right, because at the time of said incident Robin was some pushover huh? She had a 79,000,000 bounty (49 million higher than Luffy at that time and STILL higher than Roronoa Zoro's bounty) and she was noted to have destroyed an entire Marine fleet when she was EIGHT years old. Alabasta is on the grand line, just like the combative forces of the grand line. Why would he be appointed as a high guard of a kingdom in the grand line if he was weak compared to most other combative forces of the grand line?

And the last I checked there's a good amount of difference between the explosion of a bomb and the scenario Shanks was in. Much less the result.

Actually there's not much a difference, because you don't know for sure if it was even possible Luffy could be saved with the dragon being defeated. Have you ever seen Shark attacks? The dragon almost had Luffy in his jaws. That might be the situation where a FRAGMENT of a second isn't sparable. YOU DONT KNOW.

And I think you would have a hard time with that argument when Luffy considers himself weak, especially when the number of individuals that should be above him in combat power at the time would be quite high.

I never said Luffy was weak. I asked if circumstantial evidence makes him weak. Stop putting words in my mouth.

So it's interesting that you would speak of someone coming off ignorant when you clearly still seem to skip over the multiple times and past ending conversation that I directed to The Phenemenol. I suggest you spend time actually reading the entirety of someone's post rather than just jumping to a conclusion, contradicting yourself, and making insults. Including when I answered both of those post of your double post and see how easy it is to use something as simply as edit?

Whether I did or didn't use the edit button has no gauging on my ability to make a coherent argument. Knowing how to use a message forum has no bearing on a person's intellect. Stop using that argument too. What's that one at, two times used?

[000ace]

shanks by far is one of the best irates in the grand line
big enough for the world gov. to even look @ him as a threat
and not to mention his kind of lay back adittude which illustrates
he is pretty strong!

[Newtyped]

Originally Posted by 000ace

shanks by far is one of the best irates in the grand line
big enough for the world gov. to even look @ him as a threat
and not to mention his kind of lay back adittude which illustrates
he is pretty strong!

laid back attitude dont mean anything
i fought lots of ppl wid laid back attitudes that sucked at fighting lol
laid back just means they think they good.
doesnt always mean they is ^^;;

[neodrag38]

Originally Posted by Nameless

A person Luffy cares about wasn't in danger in that situation.

Still, the fact remains that Luffy being as low in combat ability he was right when he goes out to travel through Blue Sea for the first time was able to easily take out this creature. So it would be considered on some logic that Shanks being quite more stronger than this level of Luffy's combat power would be able to at least do the same even with the factor of needing to protect someone.

Again, different situation entirely. Mihawk didn't have someone to save when he took out those fleets. You're right, those things DID happen. It's simply, Shanks was saving Luffy's life, Mihawk was destroying fleets of pirate ships for waking him up from a nap. Try explaining that, baka.

But Mihawk was riding on a quite small raft while facing dozens of ships. Since Phenemonel keeps speaking about how Shanks and Mihawk should still possibly be rivals, you would think that this one single monster and a kid can be multitask at the same time. I see the problem here being that you keep acting as if saving the life of one person truly means that the task should be tougher than one that isn't as altruistic in nature.

Because YOU said so right? I'm a boxer, I've trained for over 4 years and even thought about going into MMA. I've been in a bar, sitting NEXT to a person I fought before that some would consider a rival of mine. We had a drink and talked about the street racing scene and that was it. We didn't fight, we didn't box, we didn't "have a friendly comparison of strength". Again, you're MAKING things up. You make it seem like just because YOU say friendly rivals should duel and they didn't, that Mihawk had no interest in fighting Shanks.
To the bold part: You didn't write the anime, so you wouldn't know whether rivals in it ALWAYS duel each other on sight. I personally get sick of people always wanting to box me, even if it's rivals. Does that make me weak? Say it to my face and we'll see.

No, this happening in multiple anime and manga where rivals aren't just simply fighting each other out of simply spite. Where we still have Shanks challenging Mihawk to a fight with Mihawk's reaction not just simply being a no but also commenting on that he doesn't want to fight someone who only has one arm. Mihawk didn't really show any signs that they had a continuing rivalry. And again, I made clear that I don't consider my opinion to be absolute. You need to stop beating on this dead horse that is such a moot point.

How old are you anyway? I feel like I'm debating with a high school debate team kid that doesn't really know anything. You only bring up the things that make your argument stronger.



Friendly insult. Or perhaps you've never heard of that either right? Maybe it was Hawkeyes using it as an excuse. "Oh I don't wanna duel you cuz you have one arm". Sounds like a cop out to me. On HAWKEYES' PART, NOT SHANKS. There's your bold. Shanks was well and ready to duel Hawkeyes even with only one arm, but Hawkeyes backed out using Shanks' one arm as an EXCUSE. Again, you only analyze the situation to favor your end. Something very common amongst pseudo intellectuals.

I think you should direct that first comment to yourself much less that at least high school students in a debate team don't accuse the other side of something when it's clear that such an accusation woudl be false.

And again what we have is me simply expressing an opinion. On how I saw this factual event where we still have Mihawk not showing the least bit reaction or caring to Shanks comments while being quite blunt on what seemingly considers a weakness. I guess you truly have some problem with a person not having the same opinion as yours on an event.

Seemingly, meaning you're just making assumptions. Use the word that describes exactly what it means. Shanks' shipmates didn't act scared of Hawkeyes. The ones that saw him approaching, being so near the shore, were obviously peons. Even at that point, their reaction to Hawkeyes might be because Hawkeyes is not only a Shichibukai, but the greatest swordsman who is always looking for a fight.

Maybe the crewmen nearest Shanks weren't intimidated because they either know Shanks and Hawkeyes have no hostility toward each other or they aren't afraid of him even if he was.

They were peons because you say they are? Still what is a matter of you making an opinion on what you saw in a scene but I'm not gonna actually half way crucify you simply for having that opinion.

It's called suggestive reasoning. You keep making excuses for why Shanks isn't strong. Your posts rightfully can be interpreted as suggesting Shanks is weak. If I win a match and some weasel like you is on the sidelines making excuses for why I won, I would rightfully assume you were underminding my strength or capability to win a fight.

I'm sorry but how exactly am I really making up excuses that Shanks isn't strong. I more than once made clear that I wasn't being absolute in suggesting that Shanks wasn't strong. That the basis of the point I was clarify from someone else's post was that we have events that make the idea of Shanks still being the rival of Mihawk seem a bit on the iffy side. So an explanation on why people would consider the mentioned scenes to not be evidence suggesting that Shanks would be the still existing rivalry or even superior to Mihawk doesn't really equate to an absolute thinking that Shanks is just weak. That a friendship with a Shikibuchai can't exactly work as irrefutable proof that by association that makes you Shikibuchai level in terms of having comparable strength to Mihawk for example. But you of course are entitled to your opinion.

Rhetoric exampling. You do it, so I'm doing it to you.

Mmk. Where exactly did I put down clearly false information along the lines of putting down an event happening with the involvement of a certain character?

Shanks has no need for it. He's not one of the chaotic pirates that seem to desire the role of a Shichibukai. From what I know, Mihawk and Crocodile are the only pirates I've actually seen that are on that level. I haven't read the manga far enough to know what the status is with Whitebeard/Blackbeard pirates. I only know that there's hostility between them and Ace is after Blackbeard.

I didn't say that Shanks would be the type to want to become Shikibuchai. So I wonder why even really comment on that. And sorry to say, no, hasn't been anymore focus on the Whitebeard/Blackbeard pirates yet. Though hopefully there will be after the end of the latest manga arc.

Only an idiot would take my rhetoric example as a serious part of my argument. But I guess for idiots I should label the parts of my argument that are sarcastic or rhetorical.

I think you should realize that I wasn't actually responding specifically to that rhetoric when I made that "Thanks..." in that this was the point were your first post of your two double post ended with me ending it off before deciding if I cared enough to respond to the second.

It's not a lack of multitasking, so stop saying that. We don't know if he could still save Luffy at ALL if he would've tried to stop the monster. We also don't know what his strength in combat is. Do you think Mihawk would've been able to save Luffy, hold Luffy safely from drowning AND stop the monster without killing it? I don't.

And there again remains to still simply be the divergence. Where some people think that he could while you think that he couldn't. Just that I again am not gonna criticize you simply for a difference of opinion on that scene. Your point of view does have merit though others still can't help remember that we are talking about a world where we have non-devil fruit using human being punch a large size creature.

I think attacking the monster in a situation like that where part of your focus is on keeping Luffy alive and moving Luffy from harm's way, might put you in a position where you can't control your strength. The anime leads us to believe Shanks is strong, suggestively. The anime also leads us to believe Shanks is passive. (His avoiding the fight in the bar and even offering to clean the rum off the floor) The events in question lean more to the favor of people suggesting he lost his arm to save Luffy and not because he wasn't strong enough to stop the monster, grab Luffy AND keep Luffy from drowning. You're running out of cards.

And that's the thing though, that with the fight in the bar we clearly don't have the same somewhat exact factors that were involved when it comes to saving Luffy from that creature. Where both could be considered not to require him to be passive on both to such an extreme. The events in question just really don't match all that exactly well, especially when the first still results in someone's death even though it wasn't by the direct hands of Shanks. It's a bit odd that you would be at odds with the comparison I make between how Luffy easily dealt with the creature on his first outing to the scene where Shanks loses his arm yet try to link together two events that still don't have that close to the same factors besides the main focused character.

Nice. What is that... The third time you've brought up my rhetorical examples in your argument?

Not as nice as how you still are making fun of the kettle for being black. You still keep criticizing me for treating my opinion as fact.

Ahh right, because at the time of said incident Robin was some pushover huh? She had a 79,000,000 bounty (49 million higher than Luffy at that time and STILL higher than Roronoa Zoro's bounty) and she was noted to have destroyed an entire Marine fleet when she was EIGHT years old. Alabasta is on the grand line, just like the combative forces of the grand line. Why would he be appointed as a high guard of a kingdom in the grand line if he was weak compared to most other combative forces of the grand line?

Actually, it depens on how far you gone into One Piece.

Spoiler for Latest two volumes of One Piece:

The truth is that the bounty wasn't a reflection of her combat strength but simply that she's the last living survivor of the Ohara's that were trying to uncover the true history. They were obliterated by the Marine naval fleet known as a Buster Call to cover up what the World Government leaders didn't want found. Also, the ships that got destroyed during this attack were destroyed by a giant name Saul, not Robin. Much less that it remains that the Shikibuchai, 3 Admirals, Ace, CP9, etc. all should be stronger than this high guard.

Actually there's not much a difference, because you don't know for sure if it was even possible Luffy could be saved with the dragon being defeated. Have you ever seen Shark attacks? The dragon almost had Luffy in his jaws. That might be the situation where a FRAGMENT of a second isn't sparable. YOU DONT KNOW.



I never said Luffy was weak. I asked if circumstantial evidence makes him weak. Stop putting words in my mouth.

Again, not being absolute that Shanks is weak much less was capable of saving Luffy and keeping his arm at the same time. Just that people find Phenenomel usage of the scene in question to suggest that it should make Shanks on the same level Mihawk and even Whitebeard to be iffy.

And how did I suggest that you were claiming that Luffy was weak? I simply put down that it would be hard to argue that Luffy at the time isn't weak when Luffy makes quite clear he doesn't really consider himself that strong even past the Skypiea arc.

Whether I did or didn't use the edit button has no gauging on my ability to make a coherent argument. Knowing how to use a message forum has no bearing on a person's intellect. Stop using that argument too. What's that one at, two times used?

Yes I brought it up two times and that it still remains that you still seemed to be incapable of just using the edit button. A mistake made on too many occasions when it usually is expected that you don't double post.

[Phenomenal]

Yeah Yeah.....

The Phenomenol is back ...

applause.......

Wow it seems we have a new player in the game Neodrag and looks like he is giving you a hard time. Nameless you bring up good points.

Neodrag whats up???

Mihawk didn't really show any signs that they had a continuing rivalry.

Yeah but Shanks did, Casually asking mihawk for a match like it was on a daily basis for these two rivals!

[Bremm]

Wooo, what a long winded thread. Lots of hot air!

I am of the opinion Shanks and Hawkeye, while having a great deal of strength in separate areas, are about equal. Hawkeye would simply be stronger physically. Not by a whole lot, mind you, but still stronger. Whether it's the loss of Shanks' arm or something else, Mihawk has the upper hand on simple physical prowess, but when you look back over the course of One Piece, it's fairly obvious... that physical strength on its own is hardly something to be feared. There are other kinds of strength, which I'm pretty sure Shanks has loads of. I don't see Luffy scaring away Sea Kings with just a look! ^_^ When everything is factored in I think Shanks and Mihawk would sit about equal... If I recall, Shanks and Mihawk did meet in the manga, where Mihawk showed no interest in fighting a 'one-armed man'. This doesn't really say anything negative to me about Shanks' strength. Maybe another strength is simply having strong friends, eh? At this point in the series, if Luffy went back to every single friend he's made since the start of his journey and said something like "Help me overthrow the World Government!", well, that'd certainly be something to see! That's incredible strength right there! Who's to say that Shanks, who's been a pirate FAR longer than Luffy, doesn't have more friends, more influence...? Like I said, there's different kinds of strength.

As for Shanks allowing the Sea King to take his arm... well, maybe he did that to simply to make an impact on Luffy. Probably saw that Luffy had some spirit and determination, and maybe just needed a little motivation to head out into the seas and become something really great. *shrugs*. Shanks did say "It's a small price to pay." Probably taught Luffy quite a bit about Nakama too.

Yup. Just my opinion.

[Phenomenal]

Well we will see when we see Shanks in action. I still believe someone like Ener will loose to a Highly Skilled Swordsman like Shanks. It is very possible for Shanks to take on Logia fruit users without using their weakness against them.

In my opinion Shanks>Ener!

[Illuyankas]

Originally Posted by The Phenomenol

Well we will see when we see Shanks in action. I still believe someone like Ener will loose to a Highly Skilled Swordsman like Shanks. It is very possible for Shanks to take on Logia fruit users without using their weakness against them.

In my opinion Shanks< Ener!

I think you mean Shanks > Ener, TP, but thanks for the quote

[Phenomenal]

I think you mean Shanks > Ener, TP, but thanks for the quote

Thankyou Illuyankas! Sorry for that mess up. You know I meant Shanks< Ener!

[Xbox Playa]

Originally Posted by The Phenomenol

Thankyou Illuyankas! Sorry for that mess up. You know I meant Shanks< Ener!

um you kinda did it again saying Shanks<Ener.....

[Phenomenal]

Shanks>Ener Thankyou!

[Illuyankas]

Originally Posted by The Phenomenol

Thankyou Illuyankas! Sorry for that mess up. You know I meant Shanks< Ener!

I think it's subconscious

[Phenomenal]

hee, yeah maybe.

[n00boi]

I bet shanks was still a BIT weak at that TIME. and became REAL stronger after a few years.

or maybe he doesnt like his arm anymore.

[Phenomenal]

Who knows! Who knows!

[SandalHat]

well i think that the whole thing with shanks arm is to show us how much he cares for luffy..

[oscar_]

A rookie in shanks crew is worth about 100 million so i'm pretty sure he is pretty strong