2012-03-20, 13:13 | Link #3021 | |||||||||
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Location: I'm Dancing & Yelling GANBATTE KAGURA! YOU GO GET YOUR WOMAN BACK!!!!! SHIPPING THEM HARD
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If they're visions, then she doesn't need light or dark to see them. It's in her mind's eye that she's seeing these things. It wasn't dark the first time, and there is nothing that showed her seeing those visions or hinted that she had. If she had, I'd doubt she'd be so jealous of Mikono if she kept seeing her with a man other than Amata. She only seem to have them as Kagura woke up. Which makes me think she does have a connection to him and Mikono as well...either that, or Mikage is showing her things in order to manipulate her like he did with Jin and Yunoha because I've seen it bandied about that Mikage can't reach Zessica and yes he can, he could tamper with her any time he wants too. Especially now that he's been given Otoha's projection ability. Touma entered Deava (that sounds so lewd) before and he's sent his feathers too....Mikage prefers Rose Petals...I guess because Roses and the color Red are synonymous with" I love you " no matter how twisted it is.....so he could just be showing her this. As I said before, the powers of the feathers "awake hidden desires"...and if that doesn't do it, he will find some other way to manipulate the situation--although in Evol it seems like Mykage is more focused on messing with the people who are connected to Silvie more than Apollon. As opposed to messing with the one who were important to Apollon In OS, it was Baron, and the kids, and Sylvia and Sirius whom Apollo declared he was his nakama In OVA well Apollo didn't have any family his companions were insects, animals and plant-life. So Touma used Scorpius who loved and hated Apollonious after he set fire to Apollo's nakama--the forest This time it seems like Scorpious loves and hate Sylvie at the same time...If Zessica is indeed Scorpius and Amata is part of Sylvie...that is. Or Mykage could be yanking her chain for other reasons. Or she's connected to the main couple in some way --and some visions are true and either Mykage or Kagura, Zessica or a combination of all three awakened them at that moment. Visions are different from memories, because you are "watching" something instead of actually "living it" Next time make it Orange and Black Quote:
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But no. Not in the same sense that you mean it. If you mean into two different people... While that is a possibility- given my experience with the last two series there are three constants.
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Kagura hasn't had much development as far as his past. Haven't you see the last discussion? We don't know if he's turned to a human or not. Also the series isn't over. If he could turn to a human before he met the love of his life...then we wouldn't be her now. Because NONE of this would exist. That's the whole point. An Angel of slaughter fell in love with a human and was redeemed--it just didn't come without sacrifices and nearly destryoed the world, because--you know. Shyte like that isn't susposed to happen--BUT there is also HOPE in the promise of LOVE. Oh come away with me, to the world of Aquarion and witness a love that brings both hope and great sorrow. He will change because of "SYLVIE" Apollo didn't care for humans in the OVA either. So? He clearly holds care for Mikono and she is the one who validates him by acknowledging his feelings for her. He's a "Lonely stray dog" looking for his master...SYLVIE Quote:
Silvia was in love with him. Amata and Mikono's relationship is a lot like that, with the feelings of "love" stronger in the the male half this time around. But he still has more connections with Sylvie and there has been NOTHING that has given him a direct connection with Apollon other than familial as iin his "descendant" Quote:
STOP! RIGHT THERE!!!! Apollonious didn't "gain humanity" until he was reborn as Apollo Before that he tried to understand "humanity" because he couldn't since he was an Angel. He didn't understand what "food was" and he couldn't produce the " holy genesis light" without his wings, and so he was a bit wounded when Scorpius lashed out for him to save him with the "power" of his feathers At no time did he express regret for his actions, he just wished he could have understood humans before then...and some of it was a bit wistful because as an ANGEL he wouldn't experience the same things..but he he never had humanity until he was REBORN as one. Apollo---was a human but he knew nothing about Humans and was taught by the love of his friend Baron and the rest he learned because of his connection to Silvia. Apollo was vulgar, Apollo was rude, Apollo was crude,Apollo was selfish and he was single minded. and could obsess over one single person and put that person before the entire world... He continued to say "deava be damned, I'm going after who I want and I want to save BARON!" until he he hurt Silvia with his carelessness. Apollo was beast that learned to love --he's just like Kagura is now Quote:
Now that is a stretch Why that's an all-new character....named AMATA Quote:
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In short, I don't see why I have to realize I helped your theory, when I disagree that I have. I also think that you more or less helped my theory. Spent way too much time here got to go. Last edited by Lord of Pandemonium; 2012-03-20 at 14:02. |
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2012-03-20, 17:30 | Link #3024 | |
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Not to mention that Rena might have been technically blind but she could see by other means. Sure, she had a pretty weird vision but she herself said that she could see just fine (hell, she saw things nobody else could see). Plus in Evol Crea occupies Rena's position and she even looks like her, so.
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2012-03-20, 17:51 | Link #3025 | |
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Unless... She's remembering his deep, beastly breathing while Mykage is telling Kagura to remember the fragrance of Sylvie.
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2012-03-20, 17:56 | Link #3026 |
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People claim Kagura is not important? Okay, wtf? He's all over the promo material with Zessica, Amata and Mikono. If he's not given special plot attention it's because it's most likely that his backstory will play a huge part later (when Mikono or whoever learns about a tragic past to bond over perhaps).
So far, he's the most likely candidate for Apollo(n) reincarnation (if there's just one). Red herring or not, this is a fact (which can be all a Mykage's trolling, but so far it's what it is). So obvious his official profile points out his remarkable similitude, so does Kawamori. Let this rest, guys. I would prefer Mikono/Amata over Mikono/Kagura, but I am not denying Kagura's most likely Apollo(n) over Amata as things stands right now. He hasn't gotten a chance to have a positive character development because he spent how many episodes tortured and mindfucked in a thorn cage? If you remember episode 5-6, he was like an animal, but he wasn't evil or malicious. He even asked permission to kill to his targets. That's his normal modus operandi. Jin got it worse than Kagura until he was dedicated a few episodes to his growth.
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2012-03-20, 18:00 | Link #3027 |
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Did anyone claim that he wasn't important? I think we were just having a discussion on his character dynamic thus far and that, as it stands, its been built solely around Mikono. (The rest of what you said, about him prior to mind fuck, I said a few posts before... so we agree. )
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2012-03-20, 18:06 | Link #3029 | |||
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2012-03-20, 18:08 | Link #3030 | ||
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As for solely built around Mikono, or rather on scents (Mikono has one he likes). That's true, but Amata's character seems solely built on his disappeared mom and being bullied as a child (which explains his bonds with the people like him: the Elements). I was going to say Mikono too, but so far seems that most of the connection between them is due to his mom (they met by that movie, they bond over that, she looks like his mom, she's quoting his mom's lines). And he had had more screentime than Kagura. No one is being super developed. Think about Andy and MIX, the basis of their characters is all about Holes. Quote:
So yeah, maybe it's obvious maybe because they were supposed to be? The only reincarnation that was a "mystery" in Genesis was Sirius' and then in the OVA, it was Reika's. The lovers reincarnations were obvious. Maybe next episode Amata gets flashbacks that are long overdue.
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2012-03-20, 18:16 | Link #3031 | |
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The difference is Amata also have a relationship with other people. He spends just as much time with Andy as he does with Mikono, being a card carrying member of the hole-brothers. He gets along with the other classmates like Yunoha and Shrade; tries (but fail) to get along with Cayanne etc. Yes, all those little bonds add to his character, something that Kagura doesn't have.
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2012-03-20, 18:19 | Link #3032 |
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Thinking more about Zessica, another idea: we might be making too much of her crush on Amata and too little of her dislike of Mikono (or if not dislike, whatever you'd want to call it). Clearly there's a bit of both at work, and it's not like anyone's that well-characterized anyways (), but it may be more of a "perfect storm" scenario than her going off the deep end for Amata just because hey! he's the protagonist! (...at least for now, sigh).
Thess: the specific point isn't just that Kagura's narrowly characterized. It's more that he's narrowly characterized in a way that *doesn't work well* if his character gets much more development in the "good guy" direction. EG: we can forgive him some of his current creepiness because he was raised by some combination of wolf-beats and shadow angels; Kagura simply can't be expected to know any better...but if he comes to know right from wrong (), then he has to completely revise how he's going after Mikono...unless he remains a villain to the bitter end. That's the gist of it. Amata's not nearly so "blocked" from character development; he can grow and mature without having to change nearly as many character traits. Last edited by miketyson; 2012-03-20 at 18:22. Reason: response to thess |
2012-03-20, 18:21 | Link #3033 | |
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Btw, in addition to what Chaos said, we also know about how his past of being left by his mother and being ostracized by other kids formed Amata's personality, we know how he felt about himself, we've seen his character develop into what he is today, etc. etc. He's basically a rounded character that can stand on his own. Kagura, not so much. Again, I'm sure he'll get some development in the second cour, but I'm not so sure about how well it's going to be executed. (I'm not a huge fan of the "suddenly: let's pity the antagonist" development, it's not easy to pull off without feeling forced or clichéd.) |
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2012-03-20, 18:21 | Link #3034 | |||
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Kagura doesn't have a relationship with Jin? Izumo? Mykage? Of course he has, previously to the attack on Vega. It's not necessarily buddy-buddy positive, but he has a relationship with them. How did Amata start his association with Andy? That's right to reach Mikono at the other side of the Berlin. Quote:
Here, let the series lampshade it for you. Abandonment issues child who practically and devotedly watching his mom's last film every day in the past, latching on a chick who is moved by the film and just happens to look like his mom, who keeps quoting lines of Sylvie's version of Alisia.... Sure, no mommy issues at all. I ship them and I fully realize he has a complex. It's not all there is in the couple, but you can't deny the first foundation seems to be Alisia (or the image of Alisia Amata keeps in his head). It isn't really unhealthy, sometimes men and women seek romantic partners who resemble to their parents. It makes sense for someone like Amata, with his issues, seeks someone like Mikono by instinct. I already acknowledged that Amata's bonding over the elements is his other character trait, because we in fact KNOW some part of his backstory (his being bullied as a child), we don't know anything about Kagura's yet. Not until he bonds with Mikono/Amata/whoever.
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2012-03-20, 18:28 | Link #3035 | |||
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If anything, things got a lot more confusing. Quote:
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2012-03-20, 18:29 | Link #3036 | |
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You can blame it on screentime all you want but it still doesn't change the fact. So? It doesn't change the fact that he's there in the hole with him almost every night carving new holes in the ground for no practical reasons.
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2012-03-20, 18:39 | Link #3037 | ||
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Abandonment issues child who doesn't want to let another important person walk out of his life like his mother did, "latching on" (he was pretty quick to give up) a very cute girl for some strange reason (like, she was really, really cute? nah probably not) and tries to start a conversation with her using the only topic he has at hand, the movie, and the girl quoted like two lines from the movie over 12 episodes. I... I still don't get it. Obviously Amata has mommy issues just as Mikono has family issues, but so far there are no signs of him equating Mikono with Alisia. |
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2012-03-20, 18:40 | Link #3038 | ||
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Amata didn't seem to interact with anyone aside of his boss in the movie theater before he met Mikono. What's your point? Some characters might get more fleshed out when the story focuses on them for a purpose. And some characters we don't know anything about aside of their powers, quirks and potential connection to past lives (Kagura and Zessica, so far. Andy too minus the later) because they might be hiding something important for future development. Like in every series ever? Quote:
And Zessica's vision still counts. She had no clue of Amata's angst or fixation with the movie until later.
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2012-03-20, 18:42 | Link #3039 |
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Vena: we'll see how it turns out, I guess. I can see your side of it and yet whenever Zessica comes up it seems like we see things differently. I guess it's a testimony to the amazing writing that her character has such depth and ambiguity ?
With Zessica I keep coming back to this sense that she's supposed to be the "best" female pilot, and outside of that doesn't have much in her life...if that pans out it would then be not a visceral hatred of Mikono (although TBH, it'd be pretty funny to see her start calling Mikono that kuso onna...), but more of a "Mikono waltzed in here, took my #1 pilot spot, and swept the inter-dimensional romance games? Yeah, you could say I'm a bit jealous...". But it's just a sense, not the kind of thing there's a lot of concrete evidence to point towards, and it's already a show with shall-we-say "loose" characterization, so I'm taking a wait-and-see attitude. |
2012-03-20, 18:47 | Link #3040 | |
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Oh after watching his mom's movie. Girl quoted the line from Alisia's Sylvie WHEN they met. Bonus points. Then it progresses with some minimal bonding. What is Mikono's power again? To connect. The foundation is still Alisia. They bonded over other stuff later during their date.
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comedy, science fiction |
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