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Old 2013-05-22, 16:44   Link #1901
Densetsuhakai
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Originally Posted by icebreaker View Post
I don't think you are getting the point of this novel.... Kirino properly thanked Manami for "saving her brother in times of desperation" in Volume 11 too. Manami actually does care for the Kousaka siblings.
I think you aren't getting my point here.It's totally indifferent if she cares about the siblings or not.Kirino and Iwao are different people,so are Manami and Kyousuke.What works for one person does not have to work for another person.Even if Manami told the same thing to Iwao (and he grew actually out of it),it doesn't mean that the same words are working for Kirino.The fact is that she still loves her brother,Manami or not.
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Old 2013-05-22, 16:53   Link #1902
finalfury
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Originally Posted by GVN.Chaos View Post
There is an interesting fact in Vol 11: Looking back at the Cold War, Kyousuke stated that while he already forgive Kirino, he can't forgive himself. He didn't blame Manami, so that mean he understood that he is at fault for turned into this way.
Interestingly enough, karma bit me in the ass pretty badly(I ended up being a position similar to Manami but got all the blame instead) after I said that Manami should get most of the blame so now I have to withdraw that statement.
On another note, I 200% fully hope that this story ends with Kirino and Kyousuke being closely bonded together. If they're a couple, then that will be pretty awesome but my hope is that they end up being number 1 in each other's hearts.
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Old 2013-05-22, 22:17   Link #1903
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Originally Posted by icebreaker View Post
Kirino definitely said "I'll do something even more amazing than eroges", not "something more erotic than eroges", right?
When I came around thinking about that sentence.. what is more amazing than eroges? Confessing to brother? Running away with brother? Sex scenes? Marrying? (Not sure, does marrying happen in eroges? It's not legally feasible either way) Those all happens in eroges.
How about.. removing her feelings? It's hard but.. It's the perfect solution, it doesn't happen in eroges and it will be an amazing feat for her, harder than doing what eroge does.
Late reply, but a heroine "removing her feelings" so the protagonist can be with someone else happens in eroge all the time, and is pretty much inherent to the genre. And that aside, doing "something more amazing than you see in eroge" has a pretty clear and obvious (and sexual) insinuation, and it definitely isn't "we'll do nothing romantic and I'll stop loving you so you can love someone else". It was fully intended as a teasing statement.
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Old 2013-05-23, 00:17   Link #1904
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Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
Late reply, but a heroine "removing her feelings" so the protagonist can be with someone else happens in eroge all the time, and is pretty much inherent to the genre. And that aside, doing "something more amazing than you see in eroge" has a pretty clear and obvious (and sexual) insinuation, and it definitely isn't "we'll do nothing romantic and I'll stop loving you so you can love someone else". It was fully intended as a teasing statement.
Well.. maybe a sister wouldn't do that in an incest themed eroge?
I don't know.. something sexual won't happen due to the publisher (look how much they removed from SAO). And what else could be more amazing?
At least, after she proclaimed that (It was before the Manami talk right?). During the Manami talk she still showed signs of not wanting to make up with her brother which made Manami angry, and later on Manami felt "relieved" and made up with her.

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Originally Posted by Densetsuhakai View Post
I think you aren't getting my point here.It's totally indifferent if she cares about the siblings or not.Kirino and Iwao are different people,so are Manami and Kyousuke.What works for one person does not have to work for another person.Even if Manami told the same thing to Iwao (and he grew actually out of it),it doesn't mean that the same words are working for Kirino.The fact is that she still loves her brother,Manami or not.
My view is that Kirino has not grown out of it because she refused to believe it's impossible, as she believes that her brother can make anything possible. Now that she finally understood that her brother isn't all-powerful, given some time, she would also grow out of it like Iwao did.

Last edited by icebreaker; 2013-05-23 at 02:59.
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Old 2013-05-23, 05:44   Link #1905
Densetsuhakai
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My view is that Kirino has not grown out of it because she refused to believe it's impossible, as she believes that her brother can make anything possible. Now that she finally understood that her brother isn't all-powerful, given some time, she would also grow out of it like Iwao did.

Yeah,that's almost the same thing I'm thinking.But as I said before it's not going to be easy.Iwao had a "normal" relationship with his sister all the time through his childhood,but Kirino and Kyousuke had a cold war.What I am trying to explain is that because Iwao had a normal relationship with his sister,he could grow out of it like a normal child would do after it got into puberty.But Kirino's emotional progress was blocked because of the circumstances that occurred in the past.She's 15 right now and that's almost an adult (Kirino is actually more developed for her age than the most other 15 year old teenagers : has a job,earn her own money,takes responsibility for everything she does etc.).So how should she easily grow out of it when she is almost an adult? and we all know how stubborn the feelings of an adult can be.
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Old 2013-05-23, 06:19   Link #1906
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Originally Posted by Densetsuhakai View Post
Yeah,that's almost the same thing I'm thinking.But as I said before it's not going to be easy.Iwao had a "normal" relationship with his sister all the time through his childhood,but Kirino and Kyousuke had a cold war.What I am trying to explain is that because Iwao had a normal relationship with his sister,he could grow out of it like a normal child would do after it got into puberty.But Kirino's emotional progress was blocked because of the circumstances that occurred in the past.She's 15 right now and that's almost an adult (Kirino is actually more developed for her age than the most other 15 year old teenagers : has a job,earn her own money,takes responsibility for everything she does etc.).So how should she easily grow out of it when she is almost an adult? and we all know how stubborn the feelings of an adult can be.
It's probably not going to be easy. She probably has no choice either though.
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Old 2013-05-23, 06:33   Link #1907
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It's probably not going to be easy. She probably has no choice either though.

True.The only thing they can do is to reach to a conclusion together.This time they need to play with complete open cards.Kirino has to confess her feelings for him (Kyousuke probably,too).After this is done,they can plan their future together (indifferent if they will have a future together or with someone else) since going abroad without a conclusion is definitively a no go.
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Old 2013-05-23, 06:47   Link #1908
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Originally Posted by Densetsuhakai View Post
True.The only thing they can do is to reach to a conclusion together.This time they need to play with complete open cards.Kirino has to confess her feelings for him (Kyousuke probably,too).After this is done,they can plan their future together (indifferent if they will have a future together or with someone else) since going abroad without a conclusion is definitively a no go.
I think confessing would do no good, nothing will progress and Kyousuke will be burdened by it, especially when he plans to confess to someone soon. And I think that's why Manami told her to not tell anyone about her feelings. I still think after reverting to their original relationship, going abroad would be a good idea, of course with Kyousuke's permission. Mikagami is gonna be there too right? She can start over with Mikigami who's highly compatible with her.
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Old 2013-05-23, 06:51   Link #1909
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Originally Posted by icebreaker View Post
I think confessing would do no good, nothing will progress and Kyousuke will be burdened by it, especially when he plans to confess to someone soon. And I think that's why Manami told her to not tell anyone about her feelings.
But that will not work for Kirino.She would be the one who's hurt the most if she doesn't confess to him and still trying to hide her feelings for him.It would be the same situation as before (Volume 8)

Quote:
Mikagami is gonna be there too right? She can start over with Mikigami who's highly compatible with her.
I don't think that's quite right.Yes.Mikagami has the same hobby as Kirino,but for someone to be Kirino's boyfriend he must be really tenaciously (kinda like Kyousuke).And I don't think Mikagami have the guts to be her girlfriend.Besides, is it only me or is Mikagami really kinda... uhm... well,a fag?.

Last edited by Densetsuhakai; 2013-05-23 at 07:04.
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Old 2013-05-23, 07:00   Link #1910
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Originally Posted by Densetsuhakai View Post
But that will not work for Kirino.She would be the one who's hurt the most if she doesn't confess to him and still trying to hide her feelings for him.It would be the same situation as before (Volume 8)
That's because she's trying to hide it, not forget it. And the second half of my post above.
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Old 2013-05-23, 07:03   Link #1911
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Originally Posted by icebreaker View Post
It's probably not going to be easy. She probably has no choice either though.
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Originally Posted by Densetsuhakai View Post
True.The only thing they can do is to reach to a conclusion together.This time they need to play with complete open cards.Kirino has to confess her feelings for him (Kyousuke probably,too).After this is done,they can plan their future together (indifferent if they will have a future together or with someone else) since going abroad without a conclusion is definitively a no go.
However, that beg the question : can she do that alone? The conversation I posted only happened because both Kuroneko and Ayase are pushing all of her buttons, forcing her to do SOMETHING. But that kind of conversation between sibling is better be kept secret, so invited Kuroneko and/or Ayase is out of the question (unless one of them is the one Kyousuke is going to confess too)
Not to mention that there was hint ( Volume 9, chapter 2) that she is actively denied her own feeling. Now telling her to admit it would be a hell of a job.
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Originally Posted by icebreaker View Post
I think confessing would do no good, nothing will progress and Kyousuke will be burdened by it, especially when he plans to confess to someone soon. And I think that's why Manami told her to not tell anyone about her feelings. I still think after reverting to their original relationship, going abroad would be a good idea, of course with Kyousuke's permission. Mikagami is gonna be there too right? She can start over with Mikigami who's highly compatible with her.
True, but it's only work if she can hide and forget it. Ayase and Kuroneko surely won't let her. And Mikagami....well, I think he is actually much sharper than he showed. He knew (or at the very least, guess) that Kirino had feeling toward Kyousuke. He is a 2D lolicon (thus no feeling toward Kirino). Both of that factor mean he had little reason to actually date Kirino.
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Originally Posted by Densetsuhakai View Post
But that will not work for Kirino.She would be the one who's hurt the most if she doesn't confess to him and still trying to hide her feelings for him.It would be the same situation as before (Volume 8)
Hiding her feeling will NOT work. Both Kuroneko and Ayase understood that, especially after Ayase stop lying to herself and confess, she wanted Kirino to stop lying too. The last time she hided her feeling, Kyousuke got a major blow in the form of Kuroneko. I think there is little doubt that with Kuronoko pulled the string, Ayase would go to whatever length to force Kirino to admit her feeling.
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Old 2013-05-23, 07:12   Link #1912
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However, that beg the question : can she do that alone? The conversation I posted only happened because both Kuroneko and Ayase are pushing all of her buttons, forcing her to do SOMETHING. But that kind of conversation between sibling is better be kept secret, so invited Kuroneko and/or Ayase is out of the question (unless one of them is the one Kyousuke is going to confess too)
Not to mention that there was hint ( Volume 9, chapter 2) that she is actively denied her own feeling. Now telling her to admit it would be a hell of a job.

True, but it's only work if she can hide and forget it. Ayase and Kuroneko surely won't let her. And Mikagami....well, I think he is actually much sharper than he showed. He knew (or at the very least, guess) that Kirino had feeling toward Kyousuke. He is a 2D lolicon (thus no feeling toward Kirino). Both of that factor mean he had little reason to actually date Kirino.

Hiding her feeling will NOT work. Both Kuroneko and Ayase understood that, especially after Ayase stop lying to herself and confess, she wanted Kirino to stop lying too. The last time she hided her feeling, Kyousuke got a major blow in the form of Kuroneko. I think there is little doubt that with Kuronoko pulled the string, Ayase would go to whatever length to force Kirino to admit her feeling.
Do you know that only works.. if they aren't siblings. Ayase is against incest herself.
Mikagami is even more compatible for Kirino than Kuroneko in terms of topic of interest. Kirino is also a 2D lolicon. If she starts confiding into him something is bound to start.
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Old 2013-05-23, 07:16   Link #1913
Densetsuhakai
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Originally Posted by GVN.Chaos View Post
However, that beg the question : can she do that alone? The conversation I posted only happened because both Kuroneko and Ayase are pushing all of her buttons, forcing her to do SOMETHING. But that kind of conversation between sibling is better be kept secret, so invited Kuroneko and/or Ayase is out of the question (unless one of them is the one Kyousuke is going to confess too)
Not to mention that there was hint ( Volume 9, chapter 2) that she is actively denied her own feeling. Now telling her to admit it would be a hell of a job.

True, but it's only work if she can hide and forget it. Ayase and Kuroneko surely won't let her. And Mikagami....well, I think he is actually much sharper than he showed. He knew (or at the very least, guess) that Kirino had feeling toward Kyousuke. He is a 2D lolicon (thus no feeling toward Kirino). Both of that factor mean he had little reason to actually date Kirino.

Hiding her feeling will NOT work. Both Kuroneko and Ayase understood that, especially after Ayase stop lying to herself and confess, she wanted Kirino to stop lying too. The last time she hided her feeling, Kyousuke got a major blow in the form of Kuroneko. I think there is little doubt that with Kuronoko pulled the string, Ayase would go to whatever length to force Kirino to admit her feeling.

Sure,it will be a hell of a job,but that is the only solution I see.She can't run away again,besides Kyousuke wouldn't let her do that again.I agree to the point that the conversation between the siblings should be in secret.I don't think Kirino would be able to confess her feelings if someone else is right beside the two and is listening to their conversation.That's just not Kirino
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Old 2013-05-23, 07:27   Link #1914
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Besides, talking about the time she went to America in earlier volumes. Kyousuke had no plan to bring her back, he even says stuff like he knows that siblings has to part someday and cheered that she would work hard. The problem with that time is - 1. She can't play eroges (because primary school roomate), and had no one to talk about otaku stuff. 2. She is under intense self-pressure to win against someone. That's why she became unhappy and Kyousuke went after her to ask her come home.

However, if she managed to make up with Kyousuke and went abroad for modelling this time, those two problems wouldn't exist. Plus she did say she'll come back every few months to visit everyone. I don't see why Kyousuke wouldn't let her.
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Old 2013-05-23, 07:48   Link #1915
Densetsuhakai
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Besides, talking about the time she went to America in earlier volumes. Kyousuke had no plan to bring her back, he even says stuff like he knows that siblings has to part someday and cheered that she would work hard. The problem with that time is - 1. She can't play eroges (because primary school roomate), and had no one to talk about otaku stuff. 2. She is under intense self-pressure to win against someone. That's why she became unhappy and Kyousuke went after her to ask her come home.

However, if she managed to make up with Kyousuke and went abroad for modelling this time, those two problems wouldn't exist. Plus she did say she'll come back every few months to visit everyone. I don't see why Kyousuke wouldn't let her.
Those were definitively not the only problems.Kirino said that because she couldn't play eroge she was unhappy,but the main reason was obviously that she couldn't see Kyousuke (Ria Hagry arc).Though she would never told him that she miss him.And Kyousuke was lonely at that time,too.

But true,it's a possibility that she is going to go abroad,after she settled things with Kyousuke (though I don't think it's going to happen).
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Old 2013-05-23, 07:53   Link #1916
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Those were definitively not the only problems.Kirino said that because she couldn't play eroge she was unhappy,but the main reason was obviously that she couldn't see Kyousuke (Ria Hagry arc).Though she would never told him that she miss him.And Kyousuke was lonely at that time,too.

But true,it's a possibility that she is going to go abroad,after she settled things with Kyousuke (though I don't think it's going to happen).
Seriously though, she can't be seeing Kyousuke everyday for the rest of her life.
If she intends on forgetting her feelings while still getting along with Kyousuke, distancing herself like this while confiding in another guy + coming back frequently to see him will do.
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Old 2013-05-23, 07:59   Link #1917
Densetsuhakai
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Seriously though, she can't be seeing Kyousuke everyday for the rest of her life.
If she intends on forgetting her feelings while still getting along with Kyousuke, distancing herself like this while confiding in another guy + coming back frequently to see him will do.
It's not a matter of everyday : She's going to be in America!That's way to far away.Sure,she will visit her home for once in a while,but when is this going to happen?One visit in 3 months?I can't even bear to not see my imouto for a week and we are definitively not in love like Kirino.Again,running away like this is in my opinion a no go.But that's only my point of view.
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Old 2013-05-23, 08:01   Link #1918
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It's not a matter of everyday : She's going to be in America!That's way to far away.Sure,she will visit her home for once in a while,but when is this going to happen?One visit in 3 months?I can't even bear to not see my imouto for a week and we are definitively not in love like Kirino.Again,running away like this is in my opinion a no go.But that's only my point of view.
There's something called Skype.. You're not gonna totally not hear from her for 3 months.
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Old 2013-05-23, 08:07   Link #1919
Densetsuhakai
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There's something called Skype.. You're not gonna totally not hear from her for 3 months.
Dude,I've got no comment to that.
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Old 2013-05-23, 08:08   Link #1920
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Do you know that only works.. if they aren't siblings. Ayase is against incest herself.
Mikagami is even more compatible for Kirino than Kuroneko in terms of topic of interest. Kirino is also a 2D lolicon. If she starts confiding into him something is bound to start.
Ayase is against incest....but she is even more against of Kirino lied to herself. As someone who already lied to herself, she knew how it will turn out. Beside, confess do not mean instant marriage between them.
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