Suisei no Gargantia - Episode 13 Discussion (END) / Poll

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

But seriously, I would give both Ledo and Amy for chamber.

And then I would introduce him to Arbalest.

A bit of correction: Arbalest is just a shell, much like Machine Caliber is to Chamber. Arbalest’s AI is called Al .

Talking about Al, yes, it is an AI equal to Chamber. It's just a pity that Full Metal Panic! anime was cut short and we never see Al truly develop as a character like in the novels & manga.

[Tenzen12]

I know, but I couldn't remember it's name (and was afraid people wouldn't know Laevatein.)

Anyway I think they would make great buddies

[LystAP]

Originally Posted by GreyZone

In Madoka, even if a few questions were still left open, the "problem" was completely solved. But in Gargantia we now know that if the GA should survive or even win the war in 5000 years time, at some point they would receive a certain signal... and that could be fatal for earth.

And who knows if it will even take 5000 years; after all, Chamber's reply was based on their current proximity to the main Alliance fleet and Avalon. If something goes bad, they may have to evacuate Avalon and flee all over the galaxy to escape the Hideauze. And one of these fleets could emerge close enough to receive the signal, that there is a safe world. Or a scouting force/probe looking for resources could also journey near enough to receive it. Both possibilities also include the other party coming after in pursuit, or discovering the planet in the process of looking for their opponent.

The same could be true, vice versa for the Hideauze; even if it was a accident, both Chamber AND Striker managed to reach the planet. The first (Chamber or Striker) would have been a miracle, but things that happen more than once aren't miracles anymore.

[Guardian Enzo]

Well, I wanted Gen to take a side, and he did. Both the G.A. and the Hideauze are wrong (declaring everybody wrong is his usual M.O.) but there was a third option, and he actually endorsed it for a change. Stay behind, make sacrifices, fix the problem and share the planet. Gen Urobuchi, the beacon of hope.

I liked the finale better in that broad sense than in the narrow - I thought there was way too much cartoon villainy down the stretch and the execution of the last episode was pretty inconsistent. I also wasn't thrilled seeing a final episode that was basically a routine extended combat sequence, with almost no character interaction. But I did like Chamber's decision - it made perfect sense for him. In the first place I think Chamber realized that this Earth would be far better off if neither he or Striker existed - they, along with Pinion's "castle", had to go. I also like the fact that it was when Ledo admitted at last that he wanted to live that Chamber realized his ultimate duty - to give his pilot a chance to explore his existence as a human being. Declaring Ledo "unfit to be a soldier" is a nice way of giving him a left-handed compliment - Ledo has finally grown beyond the conditioning of the G.A. and realized his potential as a person. I certainly hated to see Chamber go - he was a great character and Sugita Tomokazu was his usual brilliant self. But in the context of the moment, it was the right thing to happen.

[Wandering_Youth]

[QUOTE=zztop;4743373]

Originally Posted by bastek66

Winners of contest



That's it?!

I thought they'd actually animate the winning characters, or at least give ALL of them a bigger close up in scene(s) so they could be drawn in more detail.

A couple of the characters in this scene rather well animated more than usual is there a meaning behind this?

[GreyZone]

Originally Posted by Wandering_Youth

A couple of the characters in this scene rather well animated more than usual is there a meaning behind this?

There was some kind of contest, where the producers asked the viewers to create and send their own "Gargantian Citizen". The best ones were shown in that scene.

That's how I understood it at least...

[stormy001_M1A2]

Well, for what we know, Galactic Alliance is already defeated - in 1st episode, they throwing everything they have for the assault and lost.

It is highly probable that by the time Ledo/Red woke up on Earth, the government that he and Colonel Kugel fought for is already space dust, consumed by Space Hideauze.

[Grey]

Oh yeah, forgotten about the GA-Hideauze plot thread what with Chamber and sleepiness. I guess, once you widen the scope, it's not necessarily a happy end at all since that plot thread isn't resolved. The GA is probably still spartan and militaristic or wiped out by the Hideauze. Not the greatest thing either way.

Edit: Oh yeah. Felt a bit out of character how quickly Pinion caved to the Lobster Queen. Especially after resolving to send his team away and staying himself. And working on setting the machines to explode. Guess they were short on time.

[GreyZone]

Originally Posted by stormy001_M1A2

Well, for what we know, Galactic Alliance is already defeated - in 1st episode, they throwing everything they have for the assault and lost.

It is highly probable that by the time Ledo/Red woke up on Earth, the government that he and Colonel Kugel fought for is already space dust, consumed by Space Hideauze.

That could have been an exaggerated motivational speech though, like "EVERYTHING depends on you! Mistakes will be our fall, but success will make YOU the turning point in this war."
And it actually sounds like something that the GA would do...

[monir]

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

Well, I wanted Gen to take a side, and he did. Both the G.A. and the Hideauze are wrong (declaring everybody wrong is his usual M.O.) but there was a third option, and he actually endorsed it for a change. Stay behind, make sacrifices, fix the problem and share the planet. Gen Urobuchi, the beacon of hope.

Finally got around to watch it and I just couldn't help but laugh when I read your comment, especially the bolded part!

The episode still retains the Urobuchi touch despite the mild outcome! He doesn't resolve anything other than going for the third option. Yeah, the mechas along with the super-weapons are gone, but the human element is ever present with ALLL their differences. And that's all it takes to spawn another nightmarish scenario Urobuchi would relish exploring into.

[Terrestrial Dream]

I enjoyed the ending, really simple as that. I liked the picking the Gargantia's method over the other and think the choice is very reasonable. The ending did feel very sudden, it would have better with less actions involving Pinion, more time for Ledo to reflect on his past experience would have improved the overall pace and the mood. The majority of the characters definitely could have been developed more. It is ironic that non-human character like Chamber had the best development. And Chamber was just made the show for me, his death really fit the overall ending and the direction that this show was heading to.

Was it a show with few flaws? Characters wise I would say so, but I really enjoyed the theme that was presented. Just really solid and reasonable anime, I am happy with this anime and how it turned out.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

You know, looking at it again, this series has some real similarities with Full Metal Panic!, but with more sci-fi and environmental elements in it and less comedy. We got a soldier-boy who knows nothing but fighting in war (Ledo & Sousuke Sagara) thrown into civilian environment and forced to live in it and met the civilian girl (Amy & Chidori Kaname) that becomes his main guide in exploring the “new world”. We even got the onee-chan (Bellows & Mao) and onii-chan (Pinion & Kurz) characters to help the MC to adjust. Not to mention that both MCs are also accompanied by cutting edge mechas (Machine Caliber & Arbalest/Leavatein) with stellar AIs (Chamber & AL). Both series have their MCs gradually understand how “normal” people behave and became invested with them to the point that he questions his own reasons for fighting all this time. At some point, the MCs also engaged in battles with their "old acquaintances" inside their equally cutting edge mechas (Kugel inside Striker & Gauron inside Codarl). Still, it’s good that Gargantia is a less bloody venture which complements the cheery and colorful vibe of the series. While FMP, when entering its “serious mode”, is quite dark and have characters die left and right (in gruesome ways during some occasions).

[BoyTitan]

Originally Posted by Obelisk ze Tormentor

You know, looking at it again, this series has some real similarities with Full Metal Panic!, but with more sci-fi and environmental elements in it and less comedy. We got a soldier-boy who knows nothing but fighting in war (Ledo & Sousuke Sagara) thrown into civilian environment and forced to live in it and met the civilian girl (Amy & Chidori Kaname) that becomes his main guide in exploring the “new world”. We even got the onee-chan (Bellows & Mao) and onii-chan (Pinion & Kurz) characters to help the MC to adjust. Not to mention that both MCs are also accompanied by cutting edge mechas (Machine Caliber & Arbalest/Leavatein) with stellar AIs (Chamber & AL). Both series have their MCs gradually understand how “normal” people behave and became invested with them to the point that he questions his own reasons for fighting all this time. At some point, the MCs also engaged in battles with their "old acquaintances" inside their equally cutting edge mechas (Kugel inside Striker & Gauron inside Codarl). Still, it’s good that Gargantia is a less bloody venture which complements the cheery and colorful vibe of the series. While FMP, when entering its “serious mode”, is quite dark and have characters die left and right (in gruesome ways during some occasions).

Wana know what full metal panic had that series didn't character development, And counter arguments.

Anyways 3 outa five just for the decent fight scenes and at that last gen series I will ever touch EVER.

[Triple_R]

A largely solid and satisfying ending, albeit a predictable one after last episode.

The one truly standout element of this finale was, imo, the Chamber/Striker war of words and particularly the climax of their conflict. I liked how Chamber temporarily took leave of his typical speech patterns to say "Go to hell, Tin Can!" There was something ironically very human about the decisions, and even to some extent the dialogue, that Chamber had in this episode. Just as Ledo went beyond his soldier "programming", Chamber struck me as overcoming his programming as well. Chamber's valiant death in taking down Striker is probably the most impressive death scene I've seen since another Gen work - Fate/Zero.


On the whole, Gargantia has been a pretty solid anime. It does leave some important plot threads hanging, but I think it dealt with its core ideas and themes well enough.

Perhaps my biggest disappointment is that we didn't get much of an aftermath in this episode, as the overwhelming bulk of it was devoted to the battles. But I guess that's what these remaining OVA episodes are for.

[Terrestrial Dream]

There will be OVAs after this? Are they guaranteed sequels?

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Terrestrial Dream

There will be OVAs after this? Are they guaranteed sequels?

It's mentioned here.

I don't know much about them, except that they are coming. Three of them. The first is more of a prequel than a sequel though, as it focuses on a younger Ridget. I don't know what the other two are focusing on. Hopefully at least one of them will focus on the aftermath of this episode.

[Terrestrial Dream]

A prequel would be excellent as we didn't get to know most of the characters well. I see that as the biggest hole in this show.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Terrestrial Dream

A prequel would be excellent as we didn't get to know most of the characters well. I see that as the biggest hole in this show.

Learning more about Ridget's character and background should be good, yeah. Of the most important characters, she's the one who I feel needs more fleshing out the most. I think the anime did a great job with Chamber, a very good job with Ledo, and good jobs with Pinion and Amy. While the rest of the cast was pretty good, they all could use a bit more character development/fleshing out.

[monir]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

The one truly standout element of this finale was, imo, the Chamber/Striker war of words and particularly the climax of their conflict. I liked how Chamber temporarily took leave of his typical speech patterns to say "Go to hell, Tin Can!" There was something ironically very human about the decisions, and even to some extent the dialogue, that Chamber had in this episode. Just as Ledo went beyond his soldier "programming", Chamber struck me as overcoming his programming as well. Chamber's valiant death in taking down Striker is probably the most impressive death scene I've seen since another Gen work - Fate/Zero.

Same goes for Striker too who surely isn't the first one with God-complex. They were acting just as human even in the absence of one. Even if the GA or the Hideauze go extinct, the human element goes on with these mechanized version of what defines humanity. Urobuchi just can't help himself from lecturing about humanity's terrible influence, can he?

[apotheosis]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

My only complaint is that... well there was a lot of stuff that seemed to be important and in the end it wasn't.

The whole battle between the Hideauze and the GA just remains in the background, like I pointed out back in EP12, Ledo lives happily thereafter while, supposedly, there is still a fierce war going on in the galaxy, am I supposed to just think, well whatever?

The revelation of the Hideauze being humans then was nothing more than interesting sidetracking from the main focus of the series, because in the end the subject was dropped as easily as holo-kugel stating "former humans" and the case was just settled like that.

The whalesquids as well only served as sacrificial victims to make Ledo feel guilty but nothing more than that, I don't even know why anyone should bother about them at the end of the story. It is suggested that it is possible to communicate with them so perhaps they are a little above the animal level, but still, what's their purpose and why do they seem to like lost technology so much?

Yep, this part is far more interesting to me than the main story. It getting the brush off after the big reveal felt out of place & made me wonder if they even planned the arcs much before doing them.

If they really wanted us to care about more than Ledo & Chamber, they should have chosen one thing or another to focus on, instead of jumping all over the place (or made it longer). The captains, Lukkage & Ridget all seemed hugely underdeveloped and the mass driver was pretty much deus ex machina.

This is also the first show I've watched where I felt more moved by an AI's sacrifice than the possibility of any other character dying. In fact, I kind of hoped they would kill off more of the Gargantians. Uro had me going there for a second with slow pan to Amy during the Machine Caliber fight .. but not to be.

As to the "message to those about to enter society" .. it ended up being pretty banal IMO. Don't follow orders blindly and instead think for yourself? Really? I'd hoped for something more in depth about the short comings of all the different societies in the show (Gargantia included), but they dropped all of that for a stereotypical climax. Though, I must admit the battle scenes were quite well done & enjoyable, even if predictable.

Final thoughts: Fun & forgettable like a summer action flick with a bit skin, when it could have focused on some pretty cool Sci-Fi themes instead.