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icatero · 2011-07-07, 19:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by blakstealth

Runaway or not, she does whatever the hell she wants.

Spoiler:

Oh, Minko's so pimpin.

blakstealth · 2011-07-07, 20:13

I'm so glad people are catching on.

Archon_Wing · 2011-07-11, 16:10

She's mellowed out so much since the first few episodes, almost completely due to Ohana's influence! I still don't care much for her, but honestly she might come onto her own. I think she just needs to get laid atm.

Ohana x Minko obv

blakstealth · 2011-07-11, 17:57

No one's good enough for her.

icatero · 2011-07-11, 22:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by blakstealth

No one's good enough for her.

I wholeheartedly agree.

~~Tsuyoshi~~ · 2011-07-15, 07:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archon_Wing

She's mellowed out so much since the first few episodes, almost completely due to Ohana's influence! I still don't care much for her, but honestly she might come onto her own. I think she just needs to get laid atm.

Ohana x Minko obv

Yes, that would pretty much complete her at this point. She's mellowed out quite a lot and matured quite a bit too. All she needs is a man to make her really nice

It's unfortunate that no one in the series is good enough for her D=

Aten · 2011-10-05, 01:12

definitely shipping ohana x minko

also why is she always peeling white radishes? Is that the only autonomous ability she possesses in the kitchen? Shimatta~ If I remember correctly, she usually comments on something or other about Tohru while she's out back peeling away at what appears to be toilet paper. It still doesn't fully explain why she never fails to screw up the slicing though...

penguine · 2012-04-26, 22:13

I'm late as I just finished the series... but I want to get this off my chest after watching the last episode just now.

I don't like this character.

I find that while she has admirable qualities: unafraid to chase after her dreams, willing to stand up for people she considers important, not afraid to flatly reject love confessions -- hence not leading others on

That her negatives far outweighs any positives that otherwise would have been admirable. I find her character to be completely selfish. She messes up as much as Ohana does. She accuses and yells at people for having the same weaknesses as herself, and while I believe everyone carries a bit of hypocrisy within themselves due to the natural difference between ideals and reality, the fact that Minko verbally cuts down anyone who doesn't do what she wants makes her really an inexcusable character to me. She only cares about her own feelings without weighing other's feelings into consideration unless it's Tohru. She expects everyone to sacrifice everything they might feel for her own beliefs or for Tohru's good.

It may seem harsh, but there's several scenes that really made me not like her as a character, despite her good points:

Spoiler for episode:

1. The way she yelled at the other student for wanting omurice. Instead of actually explaining her reasoning, she looks down on the girl for wanting to do it for a boy she liked. The very reason she took the job she didn't even want was to impress Tohru after she found out he might be visiting. To cut down on someone else like that for having similar feelings and so harshly mock it in front of others makes it understandable why half the committee turned against her. To then completely refuse their help and belittle their efforts just because they're not as skilled as her and consider their opinions worthless just because they don't dream of becoming a chef in the future just screams arrogance and hypocrisy to me.

2. She demands Ohana date Tohru, despite not wanting it herself. She hates Ohana for gaining Tohru's interest, despite Ohana liking someone else. She doesn't consider at all how Ohana feels about the situation. Ohana who had tried to be friends with her, always cheering her on in gaining Tohru's affections, and even telling her she likes someone else and doesn't want to get in the way. I think it really show-cased to me how selfish Minko was. While I can understand love makes people selfish and irrational at times, the belligerent way Minko went about it really rubbed me the wrong way. Why wouldn't Tohru like Ohana? Ohana made work fun for everyone, she brought the staff together and helped everyone love the inn more. She made Tohru feel needed at his job and appreciated for his work. She was always the one who chased after him to bring him back, not Minko. On top of that, as a person, Ohana is just more cheerful and considerate. She doesn't bottle her feelings up and then expects people to read her mind and interpret what she thinks (other than with Ko, but that's because she wasn't sure of her own feelings for awhile). And the fact that Minko runs away from home because her parents doesn't support her dream of being a chef? She never calls them either. So other than Tohru, she never considers anyone else's feelings except her own. That's so incredibly selfish... she's lucky to have Ohana as a friend who doesn't let her get away with her tongue when she really crosses the line but let's the other hurtful comments slide. Seriously, can anyone really imagine being friends with someone like that?

I think those two points, especially the last one was really what made me dislike Minko. I think if they had just shown her apologizing to Ohana at some point for her behavior, to admitting to being awkward, to realizing she was sometimes too abrasive, would have made her likeable. The fact that she never ever apologizes, to never want to change that aspect of her personality, that selfishness, is what made it impossible to like her after 26 episodes. Minko softened for the middle and then completely failed me in character growth. The fact that she harbors feelings for Tohru but only works on becoming a better chef and not a better person makes me not want to cheer her on. I think Tohru had the better eye in liking Ohana in the end and the fact that Minko never ever go out of her way for Ohana the way Ohana go out of her way for Minko just uh... what a terrible friend. Uh, can you even call her a friend? Mou!

In the end, it seems the only reason people stick to her is because she has a good looking face. Too bad she's not pretty enough for me to forgive her for her faults.

Archon_Wing · 2012-05-26, 07:47

Whoa that's a good post from Penguine.

Maybe I can add thoughts.

Minko is supposed to be the foil to Ohana. Ohana is honest, outgoing, thinks of others before herself, and quick to action. Minko on the other hand, keeps everything to herself, insecure and doesn't consider other people. She is no doubt a terrible person at the beginning. As we all have seen, she gets slowly and subtlety better over time. She starts to develop more sense and stops Ohana from doing anything to rash or stupid... until that ridiculous omelet rice episode. And while that can't be defended, we get hit by the Tohru thing that had a pretty severe regression.

This is actually sorta typical for this series. People frequently make small strides and then fall back a ton. However, it does make sense to some degree. One thing Hanairo does is remind us that we all make mistakes and will continue to make them, and growth tends to be really slow, which includes regression. It's an interesting thing to note that these two arcs showcase the ugliest parts of Minko's personality because the outlying problem of Tohru was not resolved. And thus every time it gets triggered, she regresses. It's certainly nothing admirable, but it's actually understandable.

It's quite funny, since Mari Okada is actually really good at writing annoying characters. That sounds like a bad thing, but at least there's a degree of logic and realism and it's not being done for the hell of it.

However, the problem with Minko often highlights the main problems with the people in the series. This show is... actually really cynical if you consider what happened at the end. It's fairly obvious that the writer had a rather low view of humanity (especially men

) especially when you see how idiotic their classmates are, people like Yuina, and whatever random scammers and possible perverts came along. Actually it just seemed like that all the strangers they came across weren't very good people. Hell, even in the own cast, Ohana's mother is incompetent as a parent, Einshi and Takako are pretty stupid and Jinomaru is a sex offender.

So while Hanairo often tries to flesh out people in terms of their flaws, unfortunately I felt that they went overboard and emphasized everyone's bad points way too much. The result is a cast that is just really obnoxious and makes you lose faith in humanity. You just watch this and feel bad for Ohana because she's surrounded by idiots except grandma maybe. The show did good in displaying the uglier side of human interaction with a tongue in cheek kind of fashion, but this lack of balance created people who are really unsympathetic. Especially Minko, who I don't actually hate, but at the same time I have to say that she sorta deserves what she gets.

Triple_R · 2012-05-27, 07:16

That's a very good post, Archon.

However, I'm not sure if Okada's view is cynical so much as it's realistic (Ok, she's obviously pretty cynical about men

).

But I think that for those of us who absorb a lot of fiction (and it doesn't really matter what type - it can be anime, live-action sci-fi, court dramas, etc...), I think we can sometimes forget that your average, everyday person is usually pretty different from the people in fiction.

Here's the reason why: A lot of fictional characters are designed around an idealized conception of "the perfect girl", or the "great heroic guy", or "the supersleuth detective!", or "the rugged anti-hero who never backs down". We tend to like our fictional protagonists to be "cooler" and/or more accomplished than the average person (i.e. "larger than life"), or at least to eventually get to that point. Fiction is loaded with over-achievers; with "winners!"

Hanasaku Iroha is different. It shows a tight social circle of people that are fairly reflective of your typical real-life social circles. Most real life social circles, in my experience, have their goofballs (Jiromaru), their partial screw-ups (Enishi), their prickly folks that are hard to get along with (Minko), etc... Most real life social circles aren't all happy high-achievers... and even the high-achievers in them aren't usually without noticeable flaws (Ohana's mom seems pretty good at her career to me, but as you say, she's not always the best of moms).

Hanasaku Iroha is full of basically average people (with the notable exception of Ohana). The thing is, though, that many of us are used to seeing loads of "cool" people and "high-achievers" in fictional stories, so this can come off as taking a really jaded approach to humanity, when it's just really being honest about it.

I actually think that Okada romanticizes the average person in this - For all his flaws and screw-ups, I almost always had the impression that the viewer is meant to kinda like Enishi. That his foibles and screw-ups are meant to make him endearing in a funny sort of way.

As for Minko specifically, I think she reflects how passionate people with strong opinions and fervent goals can sometimes fail to see outside their own personal context, and hence project unto other people. For example, it was unfathomable to Minko that Ohana could like somebody more than she does Tohru, and that's partly why Minko became really upset with Ohana that one time near the end of the anime.

But in spite of this, I still kind of like Minko. Her flaw is a strength in one way - It means that she was usually the first cast member to notice BS when it was happening all around us. I'm sure we all remember the famous Minko Face, displayed during one of Enishi and Takako's sillier moments.

Archon_Wing · 2012-05-28, 00:06

Triple, I agree with that for the good parts of Hanairo. It really did make people feel human instead of some overly idealized things that may not resemble humans. But It's why I felt the worst parts of the show was when I felt that the story itself was simply being mean-spirited. Yea, I actually don't mind dark stories, but I do take issue when stories just seem to focus on making their characters look bad. (It's like "yes, I get it already!") Episode 3 and omelet rice are the pits for me.

And it's only appropriate this thread needs mention of the infamous minko face which is her legacy.

2012-04-26, 22:13	Link #28
penguine Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2012	Not a fan I'm late as I just finished the series... but I want to get this off my chest after watching the last episode just now. I don't like this character. I find that while she has admirable qualities: unafraid to chase after her dreams, willing to stand up for people she considers important, not afraid to flatly reject love confessions -- hence not leading others on That her negatives far outweighs any positives that otherwise would have been admirable. I find her character to be completely selfish. She messes up as much as Ohana does. She accuses and yells at people for having the same weaknesses as herself, and while I believe everyone carries a bit of hypocrisy within themselves due to the natural difference between ideals and reality, the fact that Minko verbally cuts down anyone who doesn't do what she wants makes her really an inexcusable character to me. She only cares about her own feelings without weighing other's feelings into consideration unless it's Tohru. She expects everyone to sacrifice everything they might feel for her own beliefs or for Tohru's good. It may seem harsh, but there's several scenes that really made me not like her as a character, despite her good points: Spoiler for episode: 1. The way she yelled at the other student for wanting omurice. Instead of actually explaining her reasoning, she looks down on the girl for wanting to do it for a boy she liked. The very reason she took the job she didn't even want was to impress Tohru after she found out he might be visiting. To cut down on someone else like that for having similar feelings and so harshly mock it in front of others makes it understandable why half the committee turned against her. To then completely refuse their help and belittle their efforts just because they're not as skilled as her and consider their opinions worthless just because they don't dream of becoming a chef in the future just screams arrogance and hypocrisy to me. 2. She demands Ohana date Tohru, despite not wanting it herself. She hates Ohana for gaining Tohru's interest, despite Ohana liking someone else. She doesn't consider at all how Ohana feels about the situation. Ohana who had tried to be friends with her, always cheering her on in gaining Tohru's affections, and even telling her she likes someone else and doesn't want to get in the way. I think it really show-cased to me how selfish Minko was. While I can understand love makes people selfish and irrational at times, the belligerent way Minko went about it really rubbed me the wrong way. Why wouldn't Tohru like Ohana? Ohana made work fun for everyone, she brought the staff together and helped everyone love the inn more. She made Tohru feel needed at his job and appreciated for his work. She was always the one who chased after him to bring him back, not Minko. On top of that, as a person, Ohana is just more cheerful and considerate. She doesn't bottle her feelings up and then expects people to read her mind and interpret what she thinks (other than with Ko, but that's because she wasn't sure of her own feelings for awhile). And the fact that Minko runs away from home because her parents doesn't support her dream of being a chef? She never calls them either. So other than Tohru, she never considers anyone else's feelings except her own. That's so incredibly selfish... she's lucky to have Ohana as a friend who doesn't let her get away with her tongue when she really crosses the line but let's the other hurtful comments slide. Seriously, can anyone really imagine being friends with someone like that? I think those two points, especially the last one was really what made me dislike Minko. I think if they had just shown her apologizing to Ohana at some point for her behavior, to admitting to being awkward, to realizing she was sometimes too abrasive, would have made her likeable. The fact that she never ever apologizes, to never want to change that aspect of her personality, that selfishness, is what made it impossible to like her after 26 episodes. Minko softened for the middle and then completely failed me in character growth. The fact that she harbors feelings for Tohru but only works on becoming a better chef and not a better person makes me not want to cheer her on. I think Tohru had the better eye in liking Ohana in the end and the fact that Minko never ever go out of her way for Ohana the way Ohana go out of her way for Minko just uh... what a terrible friend. Uh, can you even call her a friend? Mou! In the end, it seems the only reason people stick to her is because she has a good looking face. Too bad she's not pretty enough for me to forgive her for her faults.

2012-05-27, 07:16	Link #30
Triple_R Senior Member Author Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Newfoundland, Canada Age: 42	That's a very good post, Archon. However, I'm not sure if Okada's view is cynical so much as it's realistic (Ok, she's obviously pretty cynical about men ). But I think that for those of us who absorb a lot of fiction (and it doesn't really matter what type - it can be anime, live-action sci-fi, court dramas, etc...), I think we can sometimes forget that your average, everyday person is usually pretty different from the people in fiction. Here's the reason why: A lot of fictional characters are designed around an idealized conception of "the perfect girl", or the "great heroic guy", or "the supersleuth detective!", or "the rugged anti-hero who never backs down". We tend to like our fictional protagonists to be "cooler" and/or more accomplished than the average person (i.e. "larger than life"), or at least to eventually get to that point. Fiction is loaded with over-achievers; with "winners!" Hanasaku Iroha is different. It shows a tight social circle of people that are fairly reflective of your typical real-life social circles. Most real life social circles, in my experience, have their goofballs (Jiromaru), their partial screw-ups (Enishi), their prickly folks that are hard to get along with (Minko), etc... Most real life social circles aren't all happy high-achievers... and even the high-achievers in them aren't usually without noticeable flaws (Ohana's mom seems pretty good at her career to me, but as you say, she's not always the best of moms). Hanasaku Iroha is full of basically average people (with the notable exception of Ohana). The thing is, though, that many of us are used to seeing loads of "cool" people and "high-achievers" in fictional stories, so this can come off as taking a really jaded approach to humanity, when it's just really being honest about it. I actually think that Okada romanticizes the average person in this - For all his flaws and screw-ups, I almost always had the impression that the viewer is meant to kinda like Enishi. That his foibles and screw-ups are meant to make him endearing in a funny sort of way. As for Minko specifically, I think she reflects how passionate people with strong opinions and fervent goals can sometimes fail to see outside their own personal context, and hence project unto other people. For example, it was unfathomable to Minko that Ohana could like somebody more than she does Tohru, and that's partly why Minko became really upset with Ohana that one time near the end of the anime. But in spite of this, I still kind of like Minko. Her flaw is a strength in one way - It means that she was usually the first cast member to notice BS when it was happening all around us. I'm sure we all remember the famous Minko Face, displayed during one of Enishi and Takako's sillier moments. __________________

2011-07-07, 20:13	Link #22
blakstealth Les Pays Bass Join Date: Jun 2011	I'm so glad people are catching on.

2011-07-11, 17:57	Link #24
blakstealth Les Pays Bass Join Date: Jun 2011	No one's good enough for her.

2011-10-05, 01:12	Link #27
Aten Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2011	definitely shipping ohana x minko also why is she always peeling white radishes? Is that the only autonomous ability she possesses in the kitchen? Shimatta~ If I remember correctly, she usually comments on something or other about Tohru while she's out back peeling away at what appears to be toilet paper. It still doesn't fully explain why she never fails to screw up the slicing though...