Character Discussion - Kallen

[Dream_Traveller]

"Oh, hey, let's have an elite unit that's appealing and can put up a perfectly decent fight and can actually give the BKs trouble die in about 3 seconds flat through a rehashed plan!"

Yeah, really smart in terms of storytelling.

[demon_god04]

Originally Posted by Var

Does family rank really apply to the KoO? It has no tie to his bloodline, just his abilities. We saw the same with Suzaku, it is your accomplisments that make you a KoR (Gino excluded), not your status or bloodline. So, while Cornelia may have been on the move, she has an actual bloodline and public identity that's chasing her around. People will notice the Princess of Britannia. Bismark, on the other hand (or the KoO in general), does not strike me as a role that's played in the forefront of cameras and national news, unlike Cornelia's role.

By military trainings, I was refering to the idea of being able to maintain his composure within any situation. As in, he'd have to hardpressed to let down a facade.

Not taking Kallen to the mainland allows her to be with her actual mother. I don't think it was done for just her bloodline, but for her own life. A child needs its mother. I'm also sure that the cherade played by her step-mother would be enough to clear up Kallen's heritage if she were to attend a more formal Britannian school as I do not see them doing blood tests. Not to mention that money can buy just about anything in Britannia's Darwinistic Society.

True, but we do not know what engagements he had in other locations. From what we saw in Ep.12 he's not exactly free all day long. He was standing (which is quite a feat) for an entire discussion between Royals, and then reporting it all to their father. I doubt Charles would want the KoO to even be near Lelouch. Though, to be frank, this is probably one of the weaker sides of my theory. I can't really make a grounded argument with no real basis.

The only sensible thing I can come up with is that he had already taken another area and is forced to maintain that area. The other possibility being Charles and Nunally.

You'd have to have a decent family rank to advance in the military and get into a position that would get you noticed in the military in the first place. Suzaku is an extreme exception in that, he was lucky to have gotten the Lancelot and then meet Euphie and later become her Knight. Knight positions are won by your accomplishments, but your status also determines the position you are in and the likely hood people of rank take notice. Charles, in his social Darwinism speeches, does mention that the birth is also a factor.

We have Sayoko disguising herself as Lelouch, it is not far fetched to believe that she may have disguised herself as well. Also, the Britannians by not expect the Second Princess to be actively hiding from them either.

True enough his composure would mean he would be less likely to give away his identity, but that is only when he is interacting with people. What I am getting at is that how unlikely it is that someone can get into the military while hiding or altering records of their lineage and not raise a few eyebrows. Especially with rivals competing for promotions who would be looking for and would use such information against him.

Oh I agree it was not done just for bloodline, but also because he wanted her with her mother as well. I just listed it as one of the factors that contributed to him leaving Kallen in Area 11. While money can buy you anything, it also can't erase where you came from. Besides Millay found out by her grandfather giving her Kallen's transcripts from her old school. While I doubt that a more prestigious Britannian school would be do blood tests, I can still see them screening their applicants and have more stringent background checks, they wouldn't want commoners or those of lesser status to mingle with those of the upper class. Kallen's records from her old school still exist and gave away her Japanese heritage, so I am not sure if she could get into a school that would require any background checks.

Well we really do not know what exactly his duties entail, except to stand in a room of royals for the Emperor. But as he can rule an Area, he must have aids to do so when he is undertaking duties for Charles. Well the Knight of One is the most powerful knight in the Empire and his own knight, I doubt it is a position earned if Charles did not trust the man's ability in the first place. Lelouch was basically his brainwashed puppet under twenty four hour surveillance, I am sure that the Charles wasn't too worried that he would do something to Bismark. Although admittedly that didn't work too well for him as Lelouch basically have the intelligence division in the palm of his hands.

Well I agree, there really is too little we know about Bismark, everytime scenes with Schniezel or some of the main antagonists on Britannia's side shows up, I find myself wishing they had developed them abit more over the course of the series rather then stick us with Ashford comedy scenes.

Oh good. I'll start charging you then!

I'll pay in screenshots of Kallen in a bunny costume and towel.

[ZeroSama]

Originally Posted by Dream_Traveller

"Oh, hey, let's have an elite unit that's appealing and can put up a perfectly decent fight and can actually give the BKs trouble die in about 3 seconds flat through a rehashed plan!"

Yeah, really smart in terms of storytelling.

Lulu has never fought his enemies head on when he can help it. I don't see that part of his personality changing.

Well

Spoiler for EP 13 spoilers:

killing off Shirley doesn't seem to be too smart either in terms of storytelling. Like everything it just depends how its handled.

[Var]

Originally Posted by demon_god04

You'd have to have a decent family rank to advance in the military and get into a position that would get you noticed in the military in the first place. Suzaku is an extreme exception in that, he was lucky to have gotten the Lancelot and then meet Euphie and later become her Knight. Knight positions are won by your accomplishments, but your status also determines the position you are in and the likely hood people of rank take notice. Charles, in his social Darwinism speeches, does mention that the birth is also a factor.

Marianne disagrees with you. If you are truly worthy of KoO I really doubt family is what matters. If you can beat the living snot out of everyone and their mother in a Sutherland, you'll raise quite a few eyebrows. So while Suzaku was a poor choice for an example, Marianne is a better one. She was a commoner and earned her rank by her capabilities as Marianne the flash and (apperantely) stole Charles' heart. I doubt Bismark stole Charles' heart, but he likely peeked his interest.

Originally Posted by demon_god04

We have Sayoko disguising herself as Lelouch, it is not far fetched to believe that she may have disguised herself as well. Also, the Britannians by not expect the Second Princess to be actively hiding from them either.

True enough. Though Kirihara didn't have a hard time realizing who Lelouch was the instant he saw his face, though this is likely compounded by the fact that he knew Lelouch was alive. Wasn't Jeremiah in Area 11 because he believed Lelouch had been killed there and it had been his duty to protect him? A vendetta of sorts.

I'd imagine if Jeremiah and Lelouch had crossed paths, that Jeremiah would have probably looked back with some wonder.

Originally Posted by demon_god04

True enough his composure would mean he would be less likely to give away his identity, but that is only when he is interacting with people. What I am getting at is that how unlikely it is that someone can get into the military while hiding or altering records of their lineage and not raise a few eyebrows. Especially with rivals competing for promotions who would be looking for and would use such information against him.

He could have asked Charles to hide his indentity. Otherwise, I really don't see Bismark even having a family. Someone in that position who does not hide or even remotely try to cover his family would find himself with a glaring weakness. I wouldn't be surprised if his entire existance is a fabrication to make him a nameless super-soldier. If he has no history, heritage, and a fake name, he'd have no weakness beyond being human.

Originally Posted by demon_god04

Oh I agree it was not done just for bloodline, but also because he wanted her with her mother as well. I just listed it as one of the factors that contributed to him leaving Kallen in Area 11. While money can buy you anything, it also can't erase where you came from. Besides Millay found out by her grandfather giving her Kallen's transcripts from her old school. While I doubt that a more prestigious Britannian school would be do blood tests, I can still see them screening their applicants and have more stringent background checks, they wouldn't want commoners or those of lesser status to mingle with those of the upper class. Kallen's records from her old school still exist and gave away her Japanese heritage, so I am not sure if she could get into a school that would require any background checks.

That's true, I'll agree that that's another reason he left her in Area 11. Though I think leaving her with her mother was the most prominent reason. As for school records, they can be destroyed, forged, and altered very easily, not that that is an actual argumentative point, just throwing that out there.

Originally Posted by demon_god04

Well we really do not know what exactly his duties entail, except to stand in a room of royals for the Emperor. But as he can rule an Area, he must have aids to do so when he is undertaking duties for Charles. Well the Knight of One is the most powerful knight in the Empire and his own knight, I doubt it is a position earned if Charles did not trust the man's ability in the first place. Lelouch was basically his brainwashed puppet under twenty four hour surveillance, I am sure that the Charles wasn't too worried that he would do something to Bismark. Although admittedly that didn't work too well for him as Lelouch basically have the intelligence division in the palm of his hands.

When dealing with Geass, I doubt Charles would want to involve anyone who is outside of the Geass-circle or not a toss away pawn. Bismark is hardly any such thing, and is likely not a part of the Geass-circle. As such, I do not see him getting sent to an area where Charles is veritably pulling the strings.

Originally Posted by demon_god04

Well I agree, there really is too little we know about Bismark, everytime scenes with Schniezel or some of the main antagonists on Britannia's side shows up, I find myself wishing they had developed them abit more over the course of the series rather then stick us with Ashford comedy scenes.

I agree.

Originally Posted by demon_god04

I'll pay in screenshots of Kallen in a bunny costume and towel.

They better have Lelouch in them.

[DarkLordOfkichiku]

Originally Posted by Dream_Traveller

"Oh, hey, let's have an elite unit that's appealing and can put up a perfectly decent fight and can actually give the BKs trouble die in about 3 seconds flat through a rehashed plan!"

Yeah, really smart in terms of storytelling.

I think they're going to last well longer than 3 seconds . But you know, in terms of storytelling, it's not a very smart move to not have opponents that can't provide a challenge either - with people like Kallen, Todou, Xingke and Rolo on the OotBK's side, they have to create some people that will be apporiate opponents for them as well - othwerwise it's just going to be all about the OotBK cutting through a lot of fodder...

[ZeroSama]

Originally Posted by DarkLordOfkichiku

I think they're going to last well longer than 3 seconds . But you know, in terms of storytelling, it's not a very smart move to not have opponents that can't provide a challenge either - with people like Kallen, Todou, Xingke and Rolo on the OotBK's side, they have to create some people that will be apporiate opponents for them as well - othwerwise it's just going to be all about the OotBK cutting through a lot of fodder...

And that doesn't remind you of Suzaku in S1? It was fair for him then it should be fair for the OoTBK as well.

[DarkLordOfkichiku]

Originally Posted by ZeroSama

And that doesn't remind you of Suzaku in S1? It was fair for him then it should be fair for the OoTBK as well.

How do you mean, how he always turned a battle in his/Britannia's favor, even when they got the Guren? Well, I suppose so. Anyway, there must be equal opponents on both sides, sorta, otherwise it's just going to be like in Gundam Wing, where ít was mostly about the various gundams striking down a lot of fodder...

[yezhanquan]

Well, Heero Yuy is Li Xingke.

[ZeroSama]

Originally Posted by DarkLordOfkichiku

How do you mean, how he always turned a battle in his/Britannia's favor, even when they got the Guren? Well, I suppose so. Anyway, there must be equal opponents on both sides, sorta, otherwise it's just going to be like in Gundam Wing, where ít was mostly about the various gundams striking down a lot of fodder...

Yep as soon as Suzaku showed up in the lancelot they as well have put up the white flag or gave the retreat signal in season 1.

[Dream_Traveller]

Originally Posted by ZeroSama

And that doesn't remind you of Suzaku in S1? It was fair for him then it should be fair for the OoTBK as well.

So by your word, they have the ability to hack through seven of the empire's revered creme de la creme? Logical.

[ZeroSama]

Originally Posted by Dream_Traveller

So by your word, they have the ability to hack through seven of the empire's revered creme de la creme? Logical.

Some do, Kallen and Xinge Ke at the very least. Plus some memebers of the KOR could have an off day. It justs depends on the circumstances or what the director wants to do.

[Aquaman OS]

There gonna have to fight at least some of the KOR head on. It is partly a mecha show after all. Chance for model sales after all.

[Dream_Traveller]

Possible scenario: Kallen may be mindwiped (the possibility still exists) or otherwise, and Li, if he's still around, will be very near death by that point. More like he'll be a target for any hunting Rounds member than the other way round.

[bladeofdarkness]

maybe we would see all the knights in a room together planing the battle and all of a suddon lulu walks in
says good morning
and geass kills all of them

that would be anti climactic
but its a good idea stratgicly

[Dream_Traveller]

Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness

maybe we would see all the knights in a room together planing the battle and all of a suddon lulu walks in
says good morning
and geass kills all of them

that would be anti climactic
but its a good idea stratgicly

...No. Just no.

[ZeroSama]

Originally Posted by Dream_Traveller

...No. Just no.

More likely he'd geass them into joining him. Or send them on a suicide(?) mission to destroy Britannia.

Followed by him going "just as planned".

[DarkLordOfkichiku]

Originally Posted by Dream_Traveller

Li, if he's still around, will be very near death by that point. More like he'll be a target for any hunting Rounds member than the other way round.

Yeah, LI risks becomign the first casuality in a battle against the KoR, that's for sure - or at least, his sickness might kick in at a time when he thinks he has victory in his grasp and then...

[Dream_Traveller]

Originally Posted by ZeroSama

More likely he'd geass them into joining him. Or send them on a suicide(?) mission to destroy Britannia.

Followed by him going "just as planned".

Enough with the damn Death Note analogies. And you really want the Rounds to die in their entirety, don't you?

[ZeroSama]

Originally Posted by Dream_Traveller

Enough with the damn Death Note analogies. And you really want the Rounds to die in their entirety, don't you?

The ones that won't join him and continue to defend Britannia? Yes.

[demon_god04]

Originally Posted by Var

Marianne disagrees with you. If you are truly worthy of KoO I really doubt family is what matters. If you can beat the living snot out of everyone and their mother in a Sutherland, you'll raise quite a few eyebrows. So while Suzaku was a poor choice for an example, Marianne is a better one. She was a commoner and earned her rank by her capabilities as Marianne the flash and (apperantely) stole Charles' heart. I doubt Bismark stole Charles' heart, but he likely peeked his interest.

True enough. Though Kirihara didn't have a hard time realizing who Lelouch was the instant he saw his face, though this is likely compounded by the fact that he knew Lelouch was alive. Wasn't Jeremiah in Area 11 because he believed Lelouch had been killed there and it had been his duty to protect him? A vendetta of sorts.

I'd imagine if Jeremiah and Lelouch had crossed paths, that Jeremiah would have probably looked back with some wonder.

He could have asked Charles to hide his indentity. Otherwise, I really don't see Bismark even having a family. Someone in that position who does not hide or even remotely try to cover his family would find himself with a glaring weakness. I wouldn't be surprised if his entire existance is a fabrication to make him a nameless super-soldier. If he has no history, heritage, and a fake name, he'd have no weakness beyond being human.

That's true, I'll agree that that's another reason he left her in Area 11. Though I think leaving her with her mother was the most prominent reason. As for school records, they can be destroyed, forged, and altered very easily, not that that is an actual argumentative point, just throwing that out there.

When dealing with Geass, I doubt Charles would want to involve anyone who is outside of the Geass-circle or not a toss away pawn. Bismark is hardly any such thing, and is likely not a part of the Geass-circle. As such, I do not see him getting sent to an area where Charles is veritably pulling the strings.

True enough Marianne was of commoner origins and worked her way up, but really she could only attain the title of Knight despite her talents, atleast until she married Charles. Still the other royals, excluding a few like Cornelia and Euphe treated her with contempt because of her commoner background, something that I don't sense when the limited interaction in that meeting. If he was hiding his lineage I'd expect a few of them at the very least to be unhappy he may be a commoner.

Well, Kirihara knew Lelouch before and his shota face and current face if fairly similar. Jeremiah's case, if I recall correctly, he was assigned to Marianne's villa as his first posting and it was a black mark on his career that she was assassinated on his watch. It was in one of those picture books, I think the sentiment was along those lines though. But he mentioned Lelouch by name, although it is still not known if he knew Lelouch is the same Lelouch, son of Marianne. Maybe it could be brought up and that may win him over to his side. Especially if Lelouch had some concrete proof that Marianne's assassination was due to something geass related, or could be tied to that pompus annoying little... V.V. I really want someone to knock that kid off his high horse already...

He could have had Charles hide his identity after he became the Knight of One, but to hide his lineage himself when entering the military would be more detrimental to his career then anything. While it is possible to earn a Knight status through one's talents, but higher ranks also require a proper lineage. I'm just pointing out that in a society so focused on family status to determine one's position, it would raise a more then a few eyebrows if one was to actively hid it, even moreso if he wasn't a commoner but someone of already high standing. He would be better off just entering the service with out hiding his identity and just keep his family as far from him as possible.

Well that is true enough, although it is undeniable that those records did give her away to Millay so its not like they did a very good job of hiding her.

Well he may not send Bismark there on his own initiative, but it is in his power to request a posting there as the Governor as the Knight of One. And during the year after the Black Rebellion there wasn't a royal managing the Area so Charles would have a hard time finding cause to deny him without raising suspicions anyways.