Physical Attractiveness

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by LeoXiao

A few million? About 100,000 (or 5000 a year) seems more appropriate, unless you really spoil your kid.

A few million is too high but all I can say is you're in for a rude shock if you think its that cheap

Here are US Dept. of Agriculture figures for raising a child to age 17 depending on income status (summary: between $124K and $250K)
I couldn't determine whether that covered additional costs for sports, music, or other extra-curricular activities.
Health insurance for children can run $5000 a year all by itself easily.

Most people view sending the child to college as part of raising them (or getting them to a point where they can live independently). That can run as much as $100K-$200K more if you only pay for a BA/BS - highly dependent on undependable things like scholarships, grants, loan availability. Of course, that is in the US. Other countries often handle education a bit differently.

[LeoXiao]

Originally Posted by Vexx

A few million is too high but all I can say is you're in for a rude shock if you think its that cheap

Here are US Dept. of Agriculture figures for raising a child to age 17 depending on income status (summary: between $124K and $250K)
I couldn't determine whether that covered additional costs for sports, music, or other extra-curricular activities.
Health insurance for children can run $5000 a year all by itself easily.

Most people view sending the child to college as part of raising them (or getting them to a point where they can live independently). That can run as much as $100K-$200K more if you only pay for a BA/BS - highly dependent on undependable things like scholarships, grants, loan availability. Of course, that is in the US. Other countries often handle education a bit differently.

Oops, forgot about the health and college there. I don't usually think of health as a big issue since I've only been to the doctor/dentist on a couple rare occasions in my life, and thus it's distant to me. Same thing with education, though I'm probably just subconsciously suppressing the reality right now.

Yeah, around 150000 or so seems right now that I think of it. It seems that parents often spend too much on their children though, with negative outcomes.

[SaintessHeart]

I knew the females are going to send a couple of AT4s in my way. Now I feel real stupid for pointing such out.....

Originally Posted by AmoreDoll

It all depends if girls buy the items for the right reasons. If they bought it cuz they just simply like it, then I say it's fine. Rape problems always lie with the rapist, never the victim. It's all a matter of control.

Originally Posted by Jazzrat

Looks like there's a lot of guys against girls taking the effort in being pretty
It's superficial but personally, i enjoy looking at them.

As for the girl being rape bait, i say guys should keep their dick to themselves in such case.

Nah. Cause and effect : The fish wouldn't be hooked if there isn't a bait present. Just like how guys get turned on by pretty girls and vice versa, humans get blinded by their hormones at times.

Originally Posted by Mystique

Totally missed my point and I can counter your examples:
Female = Male

Bra = Vest
Skirts = Shorts
Underwear = Anyone going commando (male or female) is nasty, short of looking for someone to have sex with asap then it'd be useful.
Or for guys, you're fine with using the toilet and just tucking back straight into your jeans without cleaning (eeeeeeew)
Or are fine with having more likelihood of the zip of your jeans being caught up in your pubic hair.
(Or worse...)
More power to you then.
- In terms of fashion, I already mentioned the beauty industry's main target audience and thus gave examples of other areas men generally keep note of when looking after their physical appearance.
It doesn't just boil down to clothes only.

Guys don't wear vest and shorts all the time (I don't think we 21st century guys are as hairy as our homo erectus ancestors). They can live without it AT ALL because we don't have mammaries bouncing around (save for the guys who have moobs), nor can we wear skirts without being targeted by a prejudice squad. Then precisely we know that we guys do not have to wear skirts, we DARE to go commando.

Spoiler for NSFW:

I have did that (tucking the *ahem* straight into my pants after toilet, no cleaning) for 7 full days in a row while outfield. But I am only one among the large number guys who had to do that.

I can more or less understand what you are pointing at, and we can debate this until the cows / Vexx comes home, but I think you will understand that better when you have a husband, because we men do things you women won't know (unless you plan to marry one of us but not a fellow woman). Otherwise, everything I explain would result in be getting slammed by a bahn hammer due to most of them being NSFW.

Now I have became a prominent target practice for a female poster with long hair and bad temper.

Originally Posted by Kafriel

Well, someone could have inherited a fortune or won the lottery and not work at all, but still they'd lose face in front of everyone else, being thought of as lazy or incompetent. There's also schedules to be taken into consideration: working hours can vary from the casual 8~15 to 20~3 depending on the job. Some people also worry about occupational hazards, flexibility and stability (teachers don't change schools as often as soldiers change countries) and many more things I can't think of right now since I just woke up.

You will spend a lot more if you raise one now with the incoming crisis~ (and there's also tuition fees, medical treatment,an extra room in the house, additional furniture etc.)

Recessions come once in a while. My parents have to raise me through Desert Shield / Storm, Asian Economic Crisis, 9/11, etc. My dad lost his job twice, and they have to continue to financially support me because I can't find a financially - supportive enough job out there at my age due to my education level (YES, even I have a high school cert, I can't earn enough to even support myself here).

It is how old you support your child UNTIL he is financially independent. There is no age limit. For example, a late developing child needs to be supported until mid 20s or even 30s, thus the long term financial strain that drains and adds to the cost.

A child is not just a financial investment, it is also an emotional one. And due to the fact that how he looks can affect his and your future, it is advisable (I don't want to say this, but it is a hard fact in life) that if you look ugly, or have a history of recessive or dysfunctional genes, don't give birth. Everyone suffers and it simply isn't worth it IMO.

It is a pity that there isn't enough guns or heartless killers in this world to get rid of those who judge extensively by physical looks.

[Kafriel]

^If you're ugly but your partner is beautiful it comes down to lady luck, and no matter how a child looks, their behavior can change what people think of them. I can't say I'm the best-looking guy around, but because I've known the right people nobody dares say anything about me, and through my power of persuasion I've even made people change their minds about what they think of me (from fear to respect to admiration, takes a few months). In turn, these people know other people and by extending the number of chats revolving around me, people I've never met have a good disposition against me and judge the way I ultimately want them to,which is, of course, the most objective and righteous way.[/bragging]

[Narona]

Originally Posted by SaintessHeart

Men, in general, don't wear the following as a clothing need :

1. Bra
2. Skirts (unless you are a Scottish Highlander or related armed forces / culture)
3. Or even, underwear (heard of going commando?)

Thus I would say men need less of grooming products and "specialised clothing". In fact, dressing simple can be a pro for saving money, just T-shirt, jeans, track shoes / sneakers and short hair will do. No need for some flamboyant tube top that slips off the chest, or collared shirt that makes you look professional.

I passed by a boutique once and saw this skimpy clothing worth $150. I spoke my mind out a little too loud and went, "How the **** can this piece of handkerchief cost so much?" But yeah, today it is all over the place. And we have girls complaining of rape and molestation but wear such clothing. Obviously they traded too much of their brains for looks.

As a fan of clothes, I just oppose you (again). What you say is not always true. Yes, you pay the brand, but for example, if you look closely, the quality of a piece of cloth from a French or Italian Grand Couturier has nothing to do with the clothes you can buy at the supermarket.

I don't say I am buying ton of them (Most of the time I just go to the stores and try the clothes or do windows shopping), but the asthonishing quality is there. I don't say that all the pieces of clothes are beautiful. There are a lot of awful clothes and collections (visually), but even so, the quality of the dressmaking is astonishing. And there are a lot of beautiful clothes that you'll never find in normal stores.

Notice that many of these "beauty and health experts" work for private health & beauty companies. It is just an overlying principle to use their products.

A more pragmatic and realistic mantra would be "Eat well. Stay fit. Die anyway." There is nothing more important in this world than time.

Going by your way of thinking, why don't people just kill themselves since they're destined to die?

I could write pages about beauty and health, but I will just say that you're wrong if you think that everything is bullshit.

The problem is about time. When one doesn't have enough, he/she will have to make do. Keeping things simple would be fine, but not to the extent of dressing in slippers, shorts and shirt to look like what we call, in local slang, an "Ah beng".

I am a busy person and I still find a lot the time for beauty, health, cuisine, chores etc. But I just don't play videogames a lot, and such (i don't blame VG, i Love VG, i just don't have the time for it). I just follow my dah homemade daily schedule rigorously.

You should upload your thought engrams onto the internet for my local girls to download. Due to the fact that most guys here don't openly criticise girls on their use of makeup, it gets more atrocious.

IMO, I feel that Asian girls don't really need skin makeup (powder, etc) due to their natural skin colour. Somehow it makes them look more nauseating. A little mascara and lip gloss to cover parched lips will do fine, and if best, no makeup at all.

One of the key points even before talking about skills is that you have to choose the products that are the best for your skin, hair etc.

For example, the creams i buy are very good for me, given how is my skin. Many girls *just* buy things without wondering if it's compatible or not with their skin. You don't buy a foundation cream for normal skin if you have a dry skin. That's utterly stupid and it can actually harm your skin. I don't talk about not having the money for good products, but about those who don't choose properly.

Spoiler for OT:

My grandma died in my first year in high school, and my grandpa died one week before I enlist (ONLY my dad was there to see me off). My dad was a troublemaker all his life (so I was a chip off the old block, haha), so I could say my turn going to the army could be a consolation to my grandparents that my father had done fine enough in life.

Life is full of ups and downs. Nobody can predict death, but when your time is up, it is up. Suck it up and move on if it is your kin.

No one can predict death (aside from a "we will all die someday"), but one can plan thing. If I start to plan my life just by considering the fact that I could die tomorrow, then I would do Nothing at all.

She probby meant those guys who would act rather than talk, or maybe to an extent, "Do first, talk later". I am one of such, I believe that it is a waste of time talking when more things can be done. Too bad for teamwork and pre-planning.

If the girl wants a long term relationship, then it can't work if her BF just doesn't plan anything about their future. Not thinking before acting, in this case, will lead the couple to nothing good imo.

Raising a child requires around 20 years and a few million dollars, exclusive of tax and inflation. It is about work-life balance.

IMO it will require my whole life, not just 20 years. Whether my child is 1 month or 40 years old, I will still be his/her mother, and try to be there for him/her whenever he/she needs me. I don't see it as a sacrifice since I am supposed to have chosen to have a baby. It will be my responsibility.

About the money, I know a couple of couples who live well even if the girl doesn't have a job because she takes care of their kids. I don't know how it works in the usa, but here it's possible to do good studies even if you're quite poor and to end up with a well-paid job. Not all achieve it, but it's mainly because it requires to work harder than ever at school.

Originally Posted by Mystique

I try offering wax to them and they look at me like I'm crazy xD

I do the same

Originally Posted by Kafriel

Well, someone could have inherited a fortune or won the lottery and not work at all, but still they'd lose face in front of everyone else, being thought of as lazy or incompetent. There's also schedules to be taken into consideration: working hours can vary from the casual 8~15 to 20~3 depending on the job. Some people also worry about occupational hazards, flexibility and stability (teachers don't change schools as often as soldiers change countries) and many more things I can't think of right now since I just woke up.

You will spend a lot more if you raise one now with the incoming crisis~ (and there's also tuition fees, medical treatment,an extra room in the house, additional furniture etc.)

As I said above, in France, it's still possible for the girl to be a housewife (nowadays it doesn't happen often, but most of the time it's a choice, and not because it's not possible). And it's still possible for people to do very good studies that don't cost a lot and that end up with a good job (our system is criticized but you can be poor and end up at the top. The husband of one of my best friends comes from a family who had financial problems, and has an excellent job now. They are already parents, so I am well aware of those things)

Nah. Cause and effect : The fish wouldn't be hooked if there isn't a bait present. Just like how guys get turned on by pretty girls and vice versa.

So a pretty girl is at fault to be pretty? o____o

humans get blinded by their hormones at times

Since when is it a good excuse. If the society accepted that as a perfect excuse, we would just not condemn the rapes and act no differently than the other animals.

Guys don't wear vest and shorts all the time (I don't think we 21st century guys are as hairy as our homo erectus ancestors). They can live without it AT ALL because we don't have mammaries bouncing around (save for the guys who have moobs), nor can we wear skirts without being targeted by a prejudice squad. Then precisely we know that we guys do not have to wear skirts, we DARE to go commando.

In the USA, maybe, but it's not true for everyone here. There are many men who are real softie here o.o

About going commando, meh... <.<

Spoiler for NSFW:

I have did that (tucking the *ahem* straight into my pants after toilet, no cleaning) for 7 full days in a row while outfield. But I am only one among the large number guys who had to do that.

I would have preferred to not read that. Next time I'll not look

I can more or less understand what you are pointing at, and we can debate this until the cows / Vexx comes home, but I think you will understand that better when you have a husband, because we men do things you women won't know (unless you plan to marry one of us but not a fellow woman). Otherwise, everything I explain would result in be getting slammed by a bahn hammer due to most of them being NSFW.

Don't put all the men in the same bag, that would be insulting for some of them I know a few young men that are not like what you think (that could explain why most of them are already married/fiançé <.<)

Now I have became a prominent target practice for a female poster with long hair and bad temper.

You can say awful things (really), and act like a brat, but it happens that you do say things that make sense.

You seem to bear hard-feelings and resentment, but you also seem to be aware of many important things (even if you don't inevitably put them in practice).

A real crazy and stupid person would not think like that. I might be wrong but you give me the feeling of a prisoner in despair who can't do anything, gets mad at it, says many stupidities without really believing in them, and so do mistakes and bad things, but is [still] not crazy.

Recessions come once in a while. My parents have to raise me through Desert Shield / Storm, Asian Economic Crisis, 9/11, etc. My dad lost his job twice, and they have to continue to financially support me because I can't find a financially - supportive enough job out there at my age due to my education level (YES, even I have a high school cert, I can't earn enough to even support myself here).

It is how old you support your child UNTIL he is financially independent. There is no age limit. For example, a late developing child needs to be supported until mid 20s or even 30s, thus the long term financial strain that drains and adds to the cost.

As I see it, there's no age limit for parents to help their childrens. That doesn't mean to raise spoiled brats, but we don't become parents for only 20 or 30 years (I don't count those who die early). For the rest of our life, I consider that we have to bear that responsibility. The ones who choose to have sex and make children are the parents. I saw parents who blame their children as if it was the fault of the kid to exist. Sometimes I wish that those people will never have any children, because they don't take their responsibilities.

A child is not just a financial investment, it is also an emotional one. And due to the fact that how he looks can affect his and your future, it is advisable (I don't want to say this, but it is a hard fact in life) that if you look ugly, or have a history of recessive or dysfunctional genes, don't give birth. Everyone suffers and it simply isn't worth it IMO.

It's not that simple. Most of the not so good looking people, even them, can find love and desire to have children. I am crap at science, but i have seen a documentary about cases of two persons who are not good looking or have health problems, but who had quite nice children. I don't say it means that it happens often, but just that it apparently can.

About the cases of recessive or dysfunctional genes, you may be right ; but I think we can understand how they could also wish for children (having children). Sometimes, it worths it to take the risk. In the documentary that I was talking about, there was that case of two Little persons (dwarfism) who had a good looking normal boy. That boy also bears the recessive or dysfunctional genes even if he looks normal; but he didn't blame his parents. And thanks to the science, maybe one day, we will able to help those people to get rid of those genes.

Life is also all about thinking, and taking some risks

[Kafriel]

So a pretty girl is at fault to be pretty? o____o

Women can be pretty for various reasons...
a. To boost their own confidence
b. To look good for their lovers
c. To attract other people and get to meet someone else.
d. For any other reason I missed because nobody knows what women want

In the case of c, women CAN be at fault for being pretty, but it's just a case.

(our system is criticized but you can be poor and end up at the top. The husband of one of my best friends comes from a family who had financial problems, and has an excellent job now. They are already parents, so I am well aware of those things)

Your friend's husband is lucky Things are far more different here, capitalism is a system where the rich get richer and the poor get poorer, having a stable and decent job is nearly impossible (too many hands, too little demand, ending up in everyone wanting to exploit you) which is why we need a lot of support until we can have a good job: everyone starts very low (around 700€) or are contractees and have to renew their contract every 2 years or so (the aspect of getting sacked is quite probable, killing any promotional plans in a company).
Aaaaanyway, to get back on topic, I think most people try to look good for themselves, and if they don't, they should, since it's bad to think bad about yourself,dropping your self-esteem reduces your aptness for taking the initiative and enhances day-dreaming and melancholy. When someone feels they're attractive, then they certainly are, at least to some people (themselves included), and that's as far as one needs to take it.

[SaintessHeart]

Originally Posted by Narona

As a fan of clothes, I just oppose you (again). What you say is not always true. Yes, you pay the brand, but for example, if you look closely, the quality of a piece of cloth from a French or Italian Grand Couturier has nothing to do with the clothes you can buy at the supermarket.

I don't say I am buying ton of them (Most of the time I just go to the stores and try the clothes or do windows shopping), but the asthonishing quality is there. I don't say that all the pieces of clothes are beautiful. There are a lot of awful clothes and collections (visually), but even so, the quality of the dressmaking is astonishing. And there are a lot of beautiful clothes that you'll never find in normal stores.

I don't know lol, but to me it is just a piece of cloth that covers the body. Maybe the beauty lies in the eyes of the beholder.

Going by your way of thinking, why don't people just kill themselves since they're destined to die?

If they choose to. Besides their rights to life and death is controlled by them, what they want to do is really not our problem. The only thing we can give them is advice, they take it or not, doesn't really affect us.

I could write pages about beauty and health, but I will just say that you're wrong if you think that everything is bullshit.

I think you misunderstand. I know that not everything is bullshit, but expenditure-wise, it is better controlled. I know my sis has a whole wardrobe full of clothes which practically one is worn once per month before being kept away. She wishes that she has a sister which she could hand her clothes down to.

I am a busy person and I still find a lot the time for beauty, health, cuisine, chores etc. But I just don't play videogames a lot, and such (i don't blame VG, i Love VG, i just don't have the time for it). I just follow my dah homemade daily schedule rigorously.

To each his/her own. That is all I can say. Due to being socially handicapped (people find every word I speak insulting, especially females, don't know why, don't care), I spend more time reading and exchanging ideas over forums and the net than interacting IRL. I am due to buy an electric guitar or keyboard next month so I would probably have something more "worthwhile" to do rather than "wasting my time engaging self-delusional netizens" (my sister's vocabulary usage is a reflection of her lack of braincells, but not my problem too. )

One of the key points even before talking about skills is that you have to choose the products that are the best for your skin, hair etc.

For example, the creams i buy are very good for me, given how is my skin. Many girls *just* buy things without wondering if it's compatible or not with their skin. You don't buy a foundation cream for normal skin if you have a dry skin. That's utterly stupid and it can actually harm your skin. I don't talk about not having the money for good products, but about those who don't choose properly.

For dry skin, creams won't really help. Regular hydration is pretty much key if your body loses water fast. Some salt tablets should aid in water retention, but drinking too much can cause hyponatremia. Going on a green diet (vegetables) should pretty much work in a month or so.

But for the girls here, they usually buy anything that goes on the TV or mags. Pretty much consumer victims.

No one can predict death (aside from a "we will all die someday"), but one can plan thing. If I start to plan my life just by considering the fact that I could die tomorrow, then I would do Nothing at all.

There is more than just planning. There is also doing .

IMO it will require my whole life, not just 20 years. Whether my child is 1 month or 40 years old, I will still be his/her mother, and try to be there for him/her whenever he/she needs me. I don't see it as a sacrifice since I am supposed to have chosen to have a baby. It will be my responsibility.

About the money, I know a couple of couples who live well even if the girl doesn't have a job because she takes care of their kids. I don't know how it works in the usa, but here it's possible to do good studies even if you're quite poor and to end up with a well-paid job. Not all achieve it, but it's mainly because it requires to work harder than ever at school.

I am just talking about financial dependence. Not exactly that "parent for life" issue, just about when can the child start earning and feeding him/herself.

As I said above, in France, it's still possible for the girl to be a housewife (nowadays it doesn't happen often, but most of the time it's a choice, and not because it's not possible). And it's still possible for people to do very good studies that don't cost a lot and that end up with a good job (our system is criticized but you can be poor and end up at the top. The husband of one of my best friends comes from a family who had financial problems, and has an excellent job now. They are already parents, so I am well aware of those things)

Could be different outside Europe. It all depends on the society's general mentality, over here they recently gathered up for some "feminist" debate and wasting the attorney-general's time, as well as space on the newspapers. It is all bullshit, because these women just want things their own way. They get married, they blame the spouse. They can't hook up, they blame the men for stereotyping them as materialistic. They have children, but buckpass responsibility instead of delegating. Not a wonder that the men get pissed and result in a higher divorce rate. Marriage has become something as showing off dominance in a relationship rather than real love.

So a pretty girl is at fault to be pretty? o____o

A better word would be sexually attractive. Since most of such girls like to blame the males for being stupid, then don't send random sexually provocative signals because the males do not know if they are real or not. Like what they say, the males are stupid.

I do understand that these girls want to look good, but over/underdressing is another issue. A really short miniskirt with low cut tube top is just an invitation to a gangbang party, at least wear something over the shoulders.

Since when is it a good excuse. If the society accepted that as a perfect excuse, we would just not condemn the rapes and act no differently than the other animals.

So does the girl/guy has the right to get drunk, strip off clothes and expect no one to rape them? Not everyone has that kind of self-control, so it partially it is the victims' fault. I reiterate, a crime would not happen without both a motivating and motivated party. Simple criminology.

I would have preferred to not read that. Next time I'll not look

My bad. I shouldn't have written that.

Don't put all the men in the same bag, that would be insulting for some of them I know a few young men that are not like what you think (that could explain why most of them are already married/fiançé <.<)

Spoiler for another bit of sharing, goodness I sound like an old man:

Recently, I met this guy who was my age. He is rather emo, "ex-suicidal", and quite soft. He told me about being a victim to bullying due to his overly nice attitude that made others brand him as gay. Well, he is getting married after he finishes National Service, so I made him an offer : Invite me and some of my unruly friends to the wedding, and we will settle those who try to crash it.

There is also this guy whom I met, extremely foul mouthed and a serious "see-you-in-hell" attitude, blatantly insulting anyone he sees. That bit of insulting is actually an act of icebreaking, he warms up easily, gives good advice, is smart, and most importantly, the rare loyal kind of friend who goes all out to help you.

People say I mix with weird and "loseristic" people. I find myself real gems of the humankind. So, who is the loser now?

Insulting or not, it is up to them to decide. Sometimes, insults are actually compliments in disguise, not every of them are designed to diss you off.

You can say awful things (really), and act like a brat, but it happens that you do say things that make sense.

You seem to bear hard-feelings and resentment, but you also seem to be aware of many important things (even if you don't inevitably put them in practice).

A real crazy and stupid person would not think like that. I might be wrong but you give me the feeling of a prisoner in despair who can't do anything, gets mad at it, says many stupidities without really believing in them, and so do mistakes and bad things, but is [still] not crazy.

You guessed the reason that brought me from the brink of suicide and gave me my attitude I have today. Smart girl. I believe everyone else has more to live for than I do, if they don't see it, I knock it into them, literally or laterally, whichever way that works. As long as I have patience, they will get a chance to find something to live for.

I just live by, "Anyone who stands in my way, dies. Screw the moral compass, damn the tact, and see you in hell."

As I see it, there's no age limit for parents to help their childrens. That doesn't mean to raise spoiled brats, but we don't become parents for only 20 or 30 years (I don't count those who die early). For the rest of our life, I consider that we have to bear that responsibility. The ones who choose to have sex and make children are the parents. I saw parents who blame their children as if it was the fault of the kid to exist. Sometimes I wish that those people will never have any children, because they don't take their responsibilities.

Most pragmatic way to reason them, "Why do you have children in the first place? Why did you even marry him/her at all?"

Break them down, smash their ego to bits then remind them the reason why they get married in the first place. It worked once though.

It's not that simple. Most of the not so good looking people, even them, can find love and desire to have children. I am crap at science, but i have seen a documentary about cases of two persons who are not good looking or have health problems, but who had quite nice children. I don't say it means that it happens often, but just that it apparently can.

Read about Gregor Mendel and his pea breeding experiments.

It is the simplest reference one can find, that even a fabacaput can understand it.

About the cases of recessive or dysfunctional genes, you may be right ; but I think we can understand how they could also wish for children (having children). Sometimes, it worths it to take the risk. In the documentary that I was talking about, there was that case of two Little persons (dwarfism) who had a good looking normal boy. That boy also bears the recessive or dysfunctional genes even if he looks normal; but he didn't blame his parents. And thanks to the science, maybe one day, we will able to help those people to get rid of those genes.

Life is also all about thinking, and taking some risks

If it is in a society where people are less judgemental, I wouldn't mind the child living. When the child goes through a hailstorm of shit, the parents suffer more, and if the parents are too pragmatic, it breeds inferiority complex, resulting in family problems, and most likely suicide or homicide of one of the members.

The agony lasts a lifetime. Parents who feel the pain inside, after blaming themselves enough, are most likely to blame the child. The child either :

1. Develops inferiority complex (sociophobic)
2. Develops superiority complex (force of personality)

No. 1 will result in reclusive behaviour, extensive paranoia, then a compulsion in order to address his / her flaws.

These ones will live longer than their No .2 counterparts, but they will be forever trapped in that loop of compulsion, draining their mental strength that eventually kills off whatever is left of them.

No. 2 is better off IMO. The person will stand and fight, but often in extreme ways that would emotionally or physically hurt others. If it drags for too long, it results in delusion, extended superiority complex (god like, messianic judgement). It all eventually implodes in a homicide.

[Kafriel]

First of all, try making your posts less provocative.

Like what they say, the males are stupid.

I've never heard anyone say this, and it definitely doesn't apply to everyone. I'm offended and surprised to know that there are people who think like that.

I just live by, "Anyone who stands in my way, dies. Screw the moral compass, damn the tact, and see you in hell."

Aaand that's how criminals are born.

who is the loser now?

The only loser is the one who thinks he is a loser. Try reading the alchemist, by Pablo Coelho. It's a symbolic book about the meaning of life for everyone and the concept of perception.

So does the girl/guy has the right to get drunk, strip off clothes and expect no one to rape them?

NORMAL people don't rape drunk naked people, they call the police and send them a nice fine to remember.

Why do you have children in the first place? Why did you even marry him/her at all?

Anyone can say "love" and fully cover the topic.

If it is in a society where people are less judgemental, I wouldn't mind the child living. When the child goes through a hailstorm of shit, the parents suffer more, and if the parents are too pragmatic, it breeds inferiority complex, resulting in family problems, and most likely suicide or homicide of one of the members.

The agony lasts a lifetime. Parents who feel the pain inside, after blaming themselves enough, are most likely to blame the child. The child either :

1. Develops inferiority complex (sociophobic)
2. Develops superiority complex (force of personality)

No. 1 will result in reclusive behaviour, extensive paranoia, then a compulsion in order to address his / her flaws.

These ones will live longer than their No .2 counterparts, but they will be forever trapped in that loop of compulsion, draining their mental strength that eventually kills off whatever is left of them.

No. 2 is better off IMO. The person will stand and fight, but often in extreme ways that would emotionally or physically hurt others. If it drags for too long, it results in delusion, extended superiority complex (god like, messianic judgement). It all eventually implodes in a homicide.

I call BS, if that were really the case half the population of the planet would be in an asylum and the other half would have died years ago.

[Vexx]

A better word would be sexually attractive. Since most of such girls like to blame the males for being stupid, then don't send random sexually provocative signals because the males do not know if they are real or not. Like what they say, the males are stupid.

I do understand that these girls want to look good, but over/underdressing is another issue. A really short miniskirt with low cut tube top is just an invitation to a gangbang party, at least wear something over the shoulders.

Sorry but the courts have ruled that the woman can be essentially NAKED and have the right NOT to be assaulted. No justification whatsoever for any male to do more than ask. Certainly the male can ask... but not demand and not force. And I concur... state of dress is not an "invitation to rape". This is utterly basic social self-discipline along the lines of the more minor fiats of "I will not piss on the dance floor. I will not cover myself in the buffet food condiments."

What you're saying is equivalent to "YOU have to wear a hijab, woman, so *I* won't think evil thoughts" bullshit.

[Kafriel]

^ Actually being naked in public is punishable by law, as an insult of public decency, so being nude in public is not a right but a situation.

[Irenicus]

Yeesh, calm down, Saintessheart. Nihilism is only fun to a point you know. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but act like a Beholder and you should rightfully expect scorn.

Originally Posted by Kafriel

^ Actually being naked in public is punishable by law, as an insult of public decency, so being nude in public is not a right but a situation.

Yes but they still have the right not to be assaulted. Even criminals still have their rights preserved, if not in full.

For that matter, why are we talking about this? Attractiveness is, well, attractive, while topics involving rape is definitely not, and topics involving blaming the rape victim is, ah...

[Kafriel]

I suppose it's still within the limits of whether physical attractiveness is important in life, no?

[Kusa-San]

Well I agree, it's a bit off topic now

[Vexx]

Originally Posted by Kafriel

^ Actually being naked in public is punishable by law, as an insult of public decency, so being nude in public is not a right but a situation.

I came really close to negrepping that for being irrelevant to the point but I'll just let Irenicus speak. The "right" is the right not to be assaulted.

And yes, this is moving way off-topic to whether physical attractiveness makes a difference in life.

edit: offline correspondence with Kafriel leads me to expand my statement to "One doesn't have a right to assault another" (self-defense exclusions).

[Yotsuba]

Originally Posted by Kafriel

^ Actually being naked in public is punishable by law, as an insult of public decency, so being nude in public is not a right but a situation.

Not in Canada it isn't. Feminist groups pushed that if men should be allowed to walk around shirtless, so should women. I'm actually not sure about being bottomless, though...

[Throne Invader]

Originally Posted by Yotsuba

Not in Canada it isn't. Feminist groups pushed that if men should be allowed to walk around shirtless, so should women. I'm actually not sure about being bottomless, though...

That type of feminism, I don't understand

@SaintessHeart

One can know so much but achieve very little or even nothing at all. It's nice to know that you do help your friends and even other people to leave or diminish their suicidal ways, but it won't really do any harm if you were to be a bit more sensitive to others too especially girls You're somehow limiting yourself and your own capabilities. I know you can do so much more given that you know alot. You can use what you know to help those other "losers" or "non-losers"

Anyways, back to the topic, I kinda get irritated at my friends when they go "ewwww, he's ugly" when a guy they don't know sits next to them or whatever, especially when it's a new school year. I just tell my friends "you guys are so mean." And I really do feel sorry for the guy, if it happens that he does hear the comments of my friends. I may have that kind of impression like that too but I don't voice it out. Usually I just forget it since I know that chances are that that person can still win friends even if he/she doesn't have "the looks."

[Jazzrat]

Originally Posted by AmoreDoll

Anyways, back to the topic, I kinda get irritated at my friends when they go "ewwww, he's ugly" when a guy they don't know sits next to them or whatever, especially when it's a new school year. I just tell my friends "you guys are so mean." And I really do feel sorry for the guy, if it happens that he does hear the comments of my friends. I may have that kind of impression like that too but I don't voice it out. Usually I just forget it since I know that chances are that that person can still win friends even if he/she doesn't have "the looks."

Ahhhh the harsh environment of high school... your friends are rather bitchy and probably wont make a lot of good friends with that kinda outlook.

So does the girl/guy has the right to get drunk, strip off clothes and expect no one to rape them? Not everyone has that kind of self-control, so it partially it is the victims' fault. I reiterate, a crime would not happen without both a motivating and motivated party. Simple criminology.

So in that case, if a guy have a sport car, wears expensive clothes, it's his fault as well for getting robbed/kidnapped? Just because not everyone has that kind of self control doesnt meant they arent fully accountable for their crime. If i murder someone, i doubt the judge is going to grant me leniency with the excuse "the victim was asking for it"

[Narona]

Originally Posted by Kafriel

In the case of c, women CAN be at fault for being pretty, but it's just a case.

Even so, you can meet new people, but it doesn't mean that anyone has a right on your body.

Thanksfully, it doesn't work like what you say. It would mean that every person who rapes a girl who went in a Club (like the ones there are in Paris), and met new people, could say "she wanted to meet new people so that gives me the right to abuse her". That's BS.

Clarify your opinion if i'm wrong.

Your friend's husband is lucky Things are far more different here, capitalism is a system where the rich get richer and the poor get poorer, having a stable and decent job is nearly impossible (too many hands, too little demand, ending up in everyone wanting to exploit you) which is why we need a lot of support until we can have a good job: everyone starts very low (around 700€) or are contractees and have to renew their contract every 2 years or so (the aspect of getting sacked is quite probable, killing any promotional plans in a company).
Aaaaanyway, to get back on topic, I think most people try to look good for themselves, and if they don't, they should, since it's bad to think bad about yourself,dropping your self-esteem reduces your aptness for taking the initiative and enhances day-dreaming and melancholy. When someone feels they're attractive, then they certainly are, at least to some people (themselves included), and that's as far as one needs to take it.

I don't have a lot of time to explain in details, but school and education in france don't work like in the USA (or greece, apparently). That's why I like our education system even if it's not perfect. Because even if a person comes from a poor family, if she/he works really hard, she/he has a chance to make very good studies and get a very good job. And even if you're not that good, you have an access to college that is near free. And I hope (and will fight for) it will not change...

Anyways, there are also an unemployment problem among the young people, like in a lot of countries. But still, I still defend our current system because here in France, even poor people can study and try to end up in the best schools, like everyone else.

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by SaintessHeart

I don't know lol, but to me it is just a piece of cloth that covers the body. Maybe the beauty lies in the eyes of the beholder.

That was not my point at all. What I wanted to say is that you don't only pay for a name on a piece of cloth. The quality, how it is made, worths the price. The haute couture Clothes are true works of art.

I wanted to make a comparison with jewelry, but let's talk about VG instead. It's kinda the same as if I was saying, "why are you playing current videogames that are so expensive when you can have a Tetris for $1?"

I can understand that you could not care about clothes, but don't talk as if the pieces of clothes from a Couturier were the same as the ones that can be found in a supermarket.

If they choose to. Besides their rights to life and death is controlled by them, what they want to do is really not our problem. The only thing we can give them is advice, they take it or not, doesn't really affect us.

What I was saying is that if we only focus on the fact that we could all die tomorrow then a lot of people would not have any goal in life.

"Since I could die tomorrow, why bothering to do any efforts?" = meh

I think you misunderstand. I know that not everything is bullshit, but expenditure-wise, it is better controlled. I know my sis has a whole wardrobe full of clothes which practically one is worn once per month before being kept away. She wishes that she has a sister which she could hand her clothes down to.

I was mainly talking about Health and body beauty.

At the end of the day you might see the difference over the years, between a girl who tries to take care of her body, and one who didn't care.

For example, when they say that eating too much can cause you health problems, it's not BS.

Beauty and/or youth don't last long, but it doesn't mean that it is BS to try to stay healthly as long as we can.

To each his/her own. That is all I can say. Due to being socially handicapped (people find every word I speak insulting, especially females, don't know why, don't care),

Stop the comedy. You know why. Don't play the plain stupid boy when you are not *that* stupid.

There are some things you said that still make me think you are not as stupid as you say you are. And I don't believe in the "i dropped school, so I am innevitably stupid". Even if there are people who think like that, it doesn't mean it's true.

I spend more time reading and exchanging ideas over forums and the net than interacting IRL. I am due to buy an electric guitar or keyboard next month so I would probably have something more "worthwhile" to do rather than "wasting my time engaging self-delusional netizens" (my sister's vocabulary usage is a reflection of her lack of braincells, but not my problem too. )

I was not criticizing you. I was just saying that it is possible for me to be busy and to have time for a few/some hobbies like taking care of my ubber long hair. Of course I don't have a ton of hobbies, that's why in this case people choose the ones they prefer. In my case I prefer to take care of myself and to cook rather than playing VG (even if like I say, I am a VG fan )

For dry skin, creams won't really help. Regular hydration is pretty much key if your body loses water fast. Some salt tablets should aid in water retention, but drinking too much can cause hyponatremia. Going on a green diet (vegetables) should pretty much work in a month or so.

Go check what is a foundation cream xD

Anyway, that was a mere example, and even if I were talking about moisturizing cream, it helps.

A simple example, some people in winter have the hands that dry. Cracks can appear. That's why they use cream.

But for the girls here, they usually buy anything that goes on the TV or mags. Pretty much consumer victims.

Generalizing FTL

There is more than just planning. There is also doing .

Yeah, but doing without planning is most of time a suicidal move that bets on luck. If a person has the necessary time to think and plan a bit what he/she wants to do, there's no reason to ruch an action or decision.

I am just talking about financial dependence. Not exactly that "parent for life" issue, just about when can the child start earning and feeding him/herself.

There was a politician on the French TV not so long ago. I don't remember the exact words but to summarize, she said that if you're still dependent on your parents after 23-24yo, then you're a loser (she didn't say "loser", but that's the feeling her speech gave to me). But it's just BS. You can make long studies, and a lot of people fail if they take a job while being still in school. Actually, if you follow some curriculums like a preparatory class in France, taking a job during the school year can really become a suicidal move. So Most of the time, if they can, the parents continue to provide the money.

There are also the case of the ones who have a crappy job or not any job at all at 25 and who rely on their parents. Should the parents refuse to help them? Should the children not ask for help? Some times it can be because the person knows that his parents will refuse to help, but some time it's just as if they would lose their dignity if they ask. And that's how some people ended up on the street prostituting themselves. Something that is even more "degrading".

What is the best choice? Helping your kid even if he's 25 or letting him fall on the ground and living on the street if he can't pay for a place where he can sleep?

What is the best choice? Asking for help to your parents even if you're 25 or to end up on the street if you can't pay for a place where you can sleep?

Could be different outside Europe. It all depends on the society's general mentality, over here they recently gathered up for some "feminist" debate and wasting the attorney-general's time, as well as space on the newspapers. It is all bullshit, because these women just want things their own way. They get married, they blame the spouse. .

.................... You do really think it's the woman's fault most of the time?

They can't hook up, they blame the men for stereotyping them as materialistic.

Don't talk as if it was true for all women. Actually, I doubt it is true for most of them.

They have children, but buckpass responsibility instead of delegating. Not a wonder that the men get pissed and result in a higher divorce rate.

As a woman I could say a LOT of things about the men that don't take their responsibilities and such.

But I will not enter this stupid fight.

Marriage has become something as showing off dominance in a relationship rather than real love

At least one thing on which I don't fully disagree

On my side, after having listened to some people ; and when I listen to some sociologists that think it's "good" like it is nowadays; I hate how they talk as if a love relationship was an "open-ended contract". It's as if people were already planning to ditch/divorce from their BF/GF/Husband/Wife after a few/some/many years once the fun will have toned down a bit.

I am not against divorce at all, but if I was about to marry somebody, I would not even think of it during one second as a kind of open-ended contract.

A better word would be sexually attractive. Since most of such girls like to blame the males for being stupid, then don't send random sexually provocative signals because the males do not know if they are real or not. Like what they say, the males are stupid.

I do understand that these girls want to look good, but over/underdressing is another issue. A really short miniskirt with low cut tube top is just an invitation to a gangbang party, at least wear something over the shoulders.

The males are stupid. < fact

Spoiler for .:

J/k

What you shall understand is that not all the girls take care of themselves or wear nice clothes just to make men drooling. It's not the girl's problem if a man assume that it can not be another reason.

So does the girl/guy has the right to get drunk, strip off clothes and expect no one to rape them? Not everyone has that kind of self-control, so it partially it is the victims' fault. I reiterate, a crime would not happen without both a motivating and motivated party. Simple criminology.

Other people already replied.

My bad. I shouldn't have written that.

Actually, that was nothing in comparison to some sentences that I just read from your post...

Spoiler for another bit of sharing, goodness I sound like an old man:

Recently, I met this guy who was my age. He is rather emo, "ex-suicidal", and quite soft. He told me about being a victim to bullying due to his overly nice attitude that made others brand him as gay. Well, he is getting married after he finishes National Service, so I made him an offer : Invite me and some of my unruly friends to the wedding, and we will settle those who try to crash it.

There is also this guy whom I met, extremely foul mouthed and a serious "see-you-in-hell" attitude, blatantly insulting anyone he sees. That bit of insulting is actually an act of icebreaking, he warms up easily, gives good advice, is smart, and most importantly, the rare loyal kind of friend who goes all out to help you.

People say I mix with weird and "loseristic" people. I find myself real gems of the humankind. So, who is the loser now?

Insulting or not, it is up to them to decide. Sometimes, insults are actually compliments in disguise, not every of them are designed to diss you off.

I don't understand the correlation between what I said and this.

You guessed the reason that brought me from the brink of suicide and gave me my attitude I have today. Smart girl. I believe everyone else has more to live for than I do, if they don't see it, I knock it into them, literally or laterally, whichever way that works. As long as I have patience, they will get a chance to find something to live for.

I just live by, "Anyone who stands in my way, dies. Screw the moral compass, damn the tact, and see you in hell."

My point stands. You act like a jerk, but it doesn't seem unforced.

Most pragmatic way to reason them, "Why do you have children in the first place? Why did you even marry him/her at all?"

Break them down, smash their ego to bits then remind them the reason why they get married in the first place. It worked once though.

I agree.

Read about Gregor Mendel and his pea breeding experiments.

It is the simplest reference one can find, that even a fabacaput can understand it.

Gonna check that later. Thanks for the link.

If it is in a society where people are less judgemental, I wouldn't mind the child living. When the child goes through a hailstorm of shit, the parents suffer more, and if the parents are too pragmatic, it breeds inferiority complex, resulting in family problems, and most likely suicide or homicide of one of the members.

The agony lasts a lifetime. Parents who feel the pain inside, after blaming themselves enough, are most likely to blame the child.

You can't see the future. Right now, you can have the best basis, the best parents, the best look ; it doesn't mean that 10 years later from now you'll be as happy as somebody else that had not what you had 10 years ago. Many things can happen. You can't even be sure that your baby will be healthly just because you and your wife have a perfect health. So, even for people who don't suffer from bad genes, there's still some risks.

Originally Posted by Jazzrat

So in that case, if a guy have a sport car, wears expensive clothes, it's his fault as well for getting robbed/kidnapped? Just because not everyone has that kind of self control doesnt meant they arent fully accountable for their crime. If i murder someone, i doubt the judge is going to grant me leniency with the excuse "the victim was asking for it"

It's the same as what I said about certain girls that don't do things just to be looked at by men. A guy can love cars and have the money. I'm sure that there are even people who care more about cars than trying to pick up girls.

[Kafriel]

Even so, you can meet new people, but it doesn't mean that anyone has a right on your body.

I said she's at fault for being pretty, because she purposefully tones her beauty, I didn't say she's asking to be raped.

I agree.

I'm shocked 0_o

[Narona]

Originally Posted by Kafriel

I said she's at fault for being pretty, because she purposefully tones her beauty, I didn't say she's asking to be raped.

I still disagree. Toning her beauty is not a crime. Plus, most of the time, people don't know why a girl tones her beauty. They assume things.

That said, even if I disagree, as a girl I personally dislike to play with fire. Since I know that some people can assume things wrongly, and that among them there could be some crazy people, I prefer to be careful. Like never wearing a miniskirt at school.

I'm shocked 0_o

Why? I was talking about the parents who blame their children badly without any good reasons.

I remember one of my friends who told me how his father blamed his wife and son badly. (keep in mind it's just an example, I don't try to imply that only the men do that) And as he said to me, it hurts to be blamed like that while I didn't choose to exist or not.