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Marcus H. · 2010-03-19, 09:29

It's called specialization.

Kuroko's teleportation is "Generic Teleportation". It allows her to teleport whatever she touches and herself. It's strength lies in quickness of the person itself. It is pretty much balanced and isn't overpowered in itself.

Awaki's Move Point is a more powerful version of Kuroko's "generic teleportation". She has higher marks in range and mass limit, but how it works is the same thing. Awaki is just better in many aspects. The only thing is that, she has a tendency of losing her focus using it on herself and develops a trauma of using it on herself. [Note: she was once stuck on a wall when she once tried using teleport on herself. Not a comfortable experience.]

Saraku's Kill Point is "Relative Coordinate Teleportation". He can only jump to the target's back, and unless the location of that person is given, then he can't use his ability. Very limited, but is useful in assassinations or surprise attacks.

Marina2 · 2010-03-19, 10:13

Thank for the answer ^^

I want to ask more about "Kill Point"

1. It has no limited range?

2.About [the location of that person must be given]
- He need to see the target or just tell him where is the target? (for example if Rikou uses AIM-Straker to tell the location of the target, can he go there?)

3. How does his ability tell which side of the target is front or back? (Well, doesn't important much, really)

4. Can the target be other than human? (animals or object)

...................................

- Can teleportation use with the gas? (oxygen, for example)

Chaos2Frozen · 2010-03-19, 10:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcus H.

It's called specialization.

Kuroko's teleportation is "Generic Teleportation". It allows her to teleport whatever she touches and herself. It's strength lies in quickness of the person itself. It is pretty much balanced and isn't overpowered in itself.

Awaki's Move Point is a more powerful version of Kuroko's "generic teleportation". She has higher marks in range and mass limit, but how it works is the same thing. Awaki is just better in many aspects. The only thing is that, she has a tendency of losing her focus using it on herself and develops a trauma of using it on herself. [Note: she was once stuck on a wall when she once tried using teleport on herself. Not a comfortable experience.]

Hmm, that's not how I would describe it...

The basis of the Teleportation power that Kuroko use requires her to physically touch that object/person. This is because her calculation simply marks that object at Point '0', from there on it's a matter of calculating the distance to her targeted location from her.

Move Point works on a completely different method. Awaki doesn't have to touch the object to teleport it, but in exchange, she has to take into account the individual positionings of those object, as well as the distance from the targeted location. That's why it's call 'Move Point' and not 'Teleportation', to show the difference.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marina2

4. Can the target be other than human? (animals or object)

...................................

I don't know anything about that guy cause I haven't read the novel yet. But like the other teleporters, what that object really is, doesn't matter to them. Awaki uses unconscious bodies as meat shields against Kuroko and Mikoto.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marina2

- Can teleportation use with the gas? (oxygen, for example)

It's abit difficult to grasp the 'location' of gases isn't it?

Wrath88 · 2010-03-19, 13:48

I'd say the movement of gases with Move Point is dependent on whether the movement involves a designated area or reliant on intermolecular bonds of the targeted object.

babohtea · 2010-03-19, 13:59

Can we leave the magic discussion and all of the Crystal Dragon Jesus in the generic discussion thread?

Seriously, debates about Index science usually end up like this:

Person A has a claim. Person B comes and disproves it, not because he is more familiar with the Crystal Dragon Jesus magic, but because he has read ahead and knows more future events. Person C comes in and read the author's blog, and disproves person B. ETC. Then, the next volume comes out. It turns out the new bad-guy has special powers that have contradicted previously established "laws of magic". When people say To Aru magic is "arse pull" they aren't only referring to the obvious historical discrepancies. It's the inconsistencies of magic that allows it to magically fill plot holes without even blinking.

Unlike ToAru Magic, the rules of physics don't change with every novel.

tsunade666 · 2010-03-19, 18:37

they are not discussing about to aru magic. From what I read from the previews post they are discussing about the ability teleportation and the people who specialize in it and what can they do and not do on their ability.

babohtea · 2010-03-19, 20:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsunade666

they are not discussing about to aru magic. From what I read from the previews post they are discussing about the ability teleportation and the people who specialize in it and what can they do and not do on their ability.

A couple of posts back they were debating whether or not to include the magic in the discussion, and earlier they were debating the "physics" behind Touma's imagine breaker. Which then lead to a "Holy Stone"/"He's not really an Esper"/"AIM" discussion.

**monir** · 2010-03-20, 04:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by babohtea

A couple of posts back they were debating whether or not to include the magic in the discussion, and earlier they were debating the "physics" behind Touma's imagine breaker. Which then lead to a "Holy Stone"/"He's not really an Esper"/"AIM" discussion.

Thread title is revised once again to remedy the concern you raised... it's now called: Abilities and Tehnologies: Speculation based on Science, Metaphysics, and Magic. That should cover the whole spectrum. I'll update the opening post accordingly to reflect the thread title. Let me know if the title should be even more specific to ease any concern for the discussion to take a grossly off-topic route. Point of any discussion is to have fun with everyone, which I think the posters have done a very good job of and still stayed within the scope of the topic.

Anyway, let's get back to it.

tsunade666 · 2010-03-20, 04:51

if we get back to it then the topic that's been rise before about touma and imagine breaker is interesting to me because I never thought of that before and that's the first time I'd heard of it.

babohtea · 2010-03-20, 22:50

Mkay, has Touma actually shown something (besides random magicians hinting at it) beyond his "normal" right hand? As in, have we actually seen any "super powers", or have we only heard Fianma talk about it?

Miraluka · 2010-03-20, 23:13

Not only Fiamma, Terra and Styil with Anieze heard more confessions from the people(Lidvia and Biagio) within the London tower also said about it

babohtea · 2010-03-20, 23:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wilfriback

Not only Fiamma, Terra and Styil with Anieze heard more confessions from the people(Lidvia and Biagio) within the London tower also said about it

I know, I said "random magicians hinting at it". You're picking at a small detail and you didn't really answer my question. I'm going to assume the answer is "no", though.

Chaos2Frozen · 2010-03-20, 23:30

Well, There was the incident with the 'Dragon's Head', you can speculate what Aureolus Izzard said about being shocked at the detail of the 'Dragon', and wondered if it was truely something that his Ars Magna had created. That's the only time he displayed any form of alternate power, whether it's his or not.

'Dragon' in the toaruverse, as well as ours, can be seen as symbol of great evil, and not always a literal dragon.

But to answer your original question- No, nothing have been revealed, and that's why it's so frustrating.

tsunade666 · 2010-03-21, 01:26

its so frustrating and the same time its exciting. Being in a dragon in to aru verse doesn't really mean evil it means power. Just like what fianma's right hand signifies the dragons claw. And what if the awaken Imagine Breakers form is the dragons head.

Chaos2Frozen · 2010-03-21, 02:27

Hmm, it wouldn't be impossible, but it would be weird. Because at that time his right arm was severed, so shouldn't it be with his separate hand?

Marcus H. · 2010-03-21, 03:12

Let's just say the whole body of Touma is Imagine Breaker, but it can only manifest using his right hand.

tsunade666 · 2010-03-21, 03:15

but if you look at fianmma carefully. The dragon's claw doesn't really comes out of his right arm rather just from his right part of the body. Like for example the dragon's breadth which comes from different dimension. At first we thought that it comes from the mouth of index but someone corrected it. The dragon's breadth comes from the rift of space or rather the crack that appears from their the legendary dragon breath his deadly breadth. So assuming its possibilities and from what little details we get. The IB breaker is what seals away the devils and bring forth 1000ths years of peace. And if we use it as a key then touma should can access its power too.

Chaos2Frozen · 2010-03-21, 04:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsunade666

The IB breaker is what seals away the devils and bring forth 1000ths years of peace.

This is the part where it gets weird; Apparently, Fiamma was refering to his Holy Right, and not Imagine Breaker. Blame it on mistranslation.

tsunade666 · 2010-03-21, 07:23

WHAT! ITS ABOUT HIS OWN HOLY RIGHT!? then what is imagine breaker? the one who will destroy the seal? because if Fianmma needed touma and knowing IB's ability. I can't think of anything other than total destruction of the seal just like what happen to index in vol 1.

Miraluka · 2010-03-21, 14:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcus H.

Let's just say the whole body of Touma is Imagine Breaker, but it can only manifest using his right hand.

If the volume 14 say something important for me was that Imagine Breaker is not the real name of Touma's power.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

This is the part where it gets weird; Apparently, Fiamma was refering to his Holy Right, and not Imagine Breaker. Blame it on mistranslation.

He was talking about the Holy Stone and at the same time was insinuating that Touma can be that Holy Stone. He also said that it has the power to unlock the full power of his Michael(a.k.a Holy Right).

In my opinion I don't think Fiamma has the real power of the miracles. The purpose of the miracles is to change the hearts of the people and what Fiamma is doing seems to be performances rather than miracles.

2010-03-19, 09:29	Link #41
Marcus H. Princess or Plunderer? Join Date: May 2009 Location: the Philippines	It's called specialization. Kuroko's teleportation is "Generic Teleportation". It allows her to teleport whatever she touches and herself. It's strength lies in quickness of the person itself. It is pretty much balanced and isn't overpowered in itself. Awaki's Move Point is a more powerful version of Kuroko's "generic teleportation". She has higher marks in range and mass limit, but how it works is the same thing. Awaki is just better in many aspects. The only thing is that, she has a tendency of losing her focus using it on herself and develops a trauma of using it on herself. [Note: she was once stuck on a wall when she once tried using teleport on herself. Not a comfortable experience.] Saraku's Kill Point is "Relative Coordinate Teleportation". He can only jump to the target's back, and unless the location of that person is given, then he can't use his ability. Very limited, but is useful in assassinations or surprise attacks. __________________ Continuing: White Sand Aquatope (6/24) and Vanitas S2 (0/12), The Vampire Dies in No Time S2 and Bofuri S2 (3/12). 2021: Restaurant to Another World S2 (3/12), takt Op. Destiny (1/12) and Taisho Maiden Fairy Tale (1/12). 2022: Yuusha Yamemasu (1/12), Kaguya-sama S3, Mob Psycho 100 III (Oct06), Bleach: 1000 Year Blood War (2/13) and Chainsaw Man (6/12). Spring 2023: Yamada-kun to Lv999 no Koi wo Suru, Kuma Kuma Kuma Bear Punch! (4/12), Skip to Loafer, Tonikaku Kawaii S2 (1/12), Otonari ni Ginga (5/12) and Kimi wa Houkago Insomnia (3/13). Contact me on Wikia and MyAnimeList. Anime List Status ~ Watching: 33. Completed: 468. Plan to watch: 39.

2010-03-19, 13:48	Link #44
Wrath88 Kissing... Join Date: Dec 2005	I'd say the movement of gases with Move Point is dependent on whether the movement involves a designated area or reliant on intermolecular bonds of the targeted object. __________________ Okairii, Nerine-chan

2010-03-19, 13:59	Link #45
babohtea Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009	Can we leave the magic discussion and all of the Crystal Dragon Jesus in the generic discussion thread? Seriously, debates about Index science usually end up like this: Person A has a claim. Person B comes and disproves it, not because he is more familiar with the Crystal Dragon Jesus magic, but because he has read ahead and knows more future events. Person C comes in and read the author's blog, and disproves person B. ETC. Then, the next volume comes out. It turns out the new bad-guy has special powers that have contradicted previously established "laws of magic". When people say To Aru magic is "arse pull" they aren't only referring to the obvious historical discrepancies. It's the inconsistencies of magic that allows it to magically fill plot holes without even blinking. Unlike ToAru Magic, the rules of physics don't change with every novel. Last edited by babohtea; 2010-03-19 at 14:13. Reason: shortened it.

2010-03-20, 23:30	Link #53
Chaos2Frozen We're Back Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Redgrave City Age: 35	Well, There was the incident with the 'Dragon's Head', you can speculate what Aureolus Izzard said about being shocked at the detail of the 'Dragon', and wondered if it was truely something that his Ars Magna had created. That's the only time he displayed any form of alternate power, whether it's his or not. 'Dragon' in the toaruverse, as well as ours, can be seen as symbol of great evil, and not always a literal dragon. But to answer your original question- No, nothing have been revealed, and that's why it's so frustrating. __________________ Devil Trigger , Subhuman , Crimson Cloud , Mad Qualia

2010-03-21, 02:27	Link #55
Chaos2Frozen We're Back Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Redgrave City Age: 35	Hmm, it wouldn't be impossible, but it would be weird. Because at that time his right arm was severed, so shouldn't it be with his separate hand? __________________ Devil Trigger , Subhuman , Crimson Cloud , Mad Qualia

2010-03-19, 10:13	Link #42
Marina2 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2006	Thank for the answer ^^ I want to ask more about "Kill Point" 1. It has no limited range? 2.About [the location of that person must be given] - He need to see the target or just tell him where is the target? (for example if Rikou uses AIM-Straker to tell the location of the target, can he go there?) 3. How does his ability tell which side of the target is front or back? (Well, doesn't important much, really) 4. Can the target be other than human? (animals or object) ................................... - Can teleportation use with the gas? (oxygen, for example)

2010-03-19, 18:37	Link #46
tsunade666 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: In my room	they are not discussing about to aru magic. From what I read from the previews post they are discussing about the ability teleportation and the people who specialize in it and what can they do and not do on their ability.

2010-03-20, 04:51	Link #49
tsunade666 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: In my room	if we get back to it then the topic that's been rise before about touma and imagine breaker is interesting to me because I never thought of that before and that's the first time I'd heard of it.

2010-03-20, 22:50	Link #50
babohtea Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009	Mkay, has Touma actually shown something (besides random magicians hinting at it) beyond his "normal" right hand? As in, have we actually seen any "super powers", or have we only heard Fianma talk about it?

2010-03-20, 23:13	Link #51
Miraluka Banned Join Date: Jan 2009 Age: 34	Not only Fiamma, Terra and Styil with Anieze heard more confessions from the people(Lidvia and Biagio) within the London tower also said about it

2010-03-21, 01:26	Link #54
tsunade666 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: In my room	its so frustrating and the same time its exciting. Being in a dragon in to aru verse doesn't really mean evil it means power. Just like what fianma's right hand signifies the dragons claw. And what if the awaken Imagine Breakers form is the dragons head.

2010-03-21, 03:12	Link #56
Marcus H. Princess or Plunderer? Join Date: May 2009 Location: the Philippines	Let's just say the whole body of Touma is Imagine Breaker, but it can only manifest using his right hand. __________________ Continuing: White Sand Aquatope (6/24) and Vanitas S2 (0/12), The Vampire Dies in No Time S2 and Bofuri S2 (3/12). 2021: Restaurant to Another World S2 (3/12), takt Op. Destiny (1/12) and Taisho Maiden Fairy Tale (1/12). 2022: Yuusha Yamemasu (1/12), Kaguya-sama S3, Mob Psycho 100 III (Oct06), Bleach: 1000 Year Blood War (2/13) and Chainsaw Man (6/12). Spring 2023: Yamada-kun to Lv999 no Koi wo Suru, Kuma Kuma Kuma Bear Punch! (4/12), Skip to Loafer, Tonikaku Kawaii S2 (1/12), Otonari ni Ginga (5/12) and Kimi wa Houkago Insomnia (3/13). Contact me on Wikia and MyAnimeList. Anime List Status ~ Watching: 33. Completed: 468. Plan to watch: 39.

2010-03-21, 03:15	Link #57
tsunade666 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: In my room	but if you look at fianmma carefully. The dragon's claw doesn't really comes out of his right arm rather just from his right part of the body. Like for example the dragon's breadth which comes from different dimension. At first we thought that it comes from the mouth of index but someone corrected it. The dragon's breadth comes from the rift of space or rather the crack that appears from their the legendary dragon breath his deadly breadth. So assuming its possibilities and from what little details we get. The IB breaker is what seals away the devils and bring forth 1000ths years of peace. And if we use it as a key then touma should can access its power too.

2010-03-21, 07:23	Link #59
tsunade666 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: In my room	WHAT! ITS ABOUT HIS OWN HOLY RIGHT!? then what is imagine breaker? the one who will destroy the seal? because if Fianmma needed touma and knowing IB's ability. I can't think of anything other than total destruction of the seal just like what happen to index in vol 1.