(L) Mashiro-iro Symphony

[Vena]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

Spoiler for Episode 10 and anime overall:

I guess this is why so many people expect these sorts of anime adaptations to not tell us who the chosen heroine is until the very last episode, as if that's the only and main point of the show. I sort of think it's a bit lame that you're already writing off the conclusion/resolution, and deciding what the show means on a whole without actually seeing how they bring it together. I suppose that some of what's to come is denouement, but the overall message and theme of the show are going to be perfected and refined in what's left to be said. The confession is not meant to be the ending point, but the start of a new relationship.

Of course I can't tell you how to watch or judge anime, but that doesn't change the fact that I think this way of looking at things is pretty near-sighted, whether coming from you or anyone else. Everything that happens is important, including what happens from now on. Of course, that's just my opinion.

Spoiler for You misunderstood:

As it stands, the driving force of our discussions was solved. We were, after all, largely discussing the romance and the implications of scenes towards that end. If the show brings up more (as was so delicately inserted into the background of the principle's computer this episode) then we will have more to talk about most certainly. I'm not writing anything off, just saying that we're out of ammunition for what drove most of our discussion to this point. Which is true, if I'm not mistaken.

The other thing is, really, that they've already more or less hammered down the theme. We're now on the conclusion arc of "goodbyes" that are permeating the show, but the only point of this that we can discuss at the moment is: Will they merge or not. We don't have much to talk about other than blind guessing because we have no scenes to fall back on and analyze.

I hope that clears this up.

[vio5555]

Originally Posted by elior

it very rare to see the main male confessed to a side heroine in harem anime there is not much animes it happend

Spoiler for comparison to Akane-iro ni Somaru Saka:

It's rare, but in a way this anime is kind of like Akane-Iro.

Airi's interactions with the other characters is what moves this anime along, similar to Akane-Iro. Airi isn't directly involved in the romantic triangle other than at key points when she observes the girls interacting with Shingo (like how she saw Sana and Shingo at the swing set with the drinks), etc.

Plus, there's still things to be resolved in this anime, it's not like she doesn't have her role to play...

[hyl]

Spoiler for ep 10:

Personally i don't think the merger has much effect for Miu's plot, because a few months she graduates anyway. Though it's nice that the merger does not fail for the friendship of the other characters

edit: because i didn't saw that when posting this comment

Originally Posted by vio5555

Spoiler for comparison to Akane-iro ni Somaru Saka:

It's rare, but in a way this anime is kind of like Akane-Iro.

Airi's interactions with the other characters is what moves this anime along, similar to Akane-Iro. Airi isn't directly involved in the romantic triangle other than at key points when she observes the girls interacting with Shingo (like how she saw Sana and Shingo at the swing set with the drinks), etc.

Plus, there's still things to be resolved in this anime, it's not like she doesn't have her role to play...

Spoiler for comparison to Akane-iro ni Somaru Saka:

Unlike Akasaka anime, the main character in Mashiphony, Shingo, did not fall in in love with the main heroine. Eventhough Yuuhi kept the plot somewhat moving in the Akasaka anime, her role is different compared to Airi's. So i disagree that this anime is like Akane iro ni Somaru Saka.

[Zavie]

Finished watching!

Spoiler for Epoisode 10:

Damn, I had to say that even I have been rooting for Miu from episode 5, that infamous "swing scene" still left a very bitter feeling inside me.

I also agree with relentless that Sana was trying too hard to maintain the status quo. I have feeling that she knew that was a hopeless battle for her, but her yearning for Shingo ended up making her behaved that way. She simply just want to be with Shingo like she has always been, but too afraid to make another step further. Unfortunately, she really took the fall. I wasn't really a fan of Airi, but I'm glad, really really glad that Airi was there for Sana, even though she's also dying inside. Gosh, I love this show for how sensible and mature the characters are.

This is just me, but I felt the confession scene between Miu and Shingo was a bit flat, maybe because I couldn't catch all the language. Seeing Miu on the edge of crying (that close up shot at her eyes), it was a very sensible (and cunning) action Shingo took. It just that Shingo's reaction, speech and facial expression didn't feel that real to me. But overall, I'm glad they ended up together without dragging to another episode. TOLD YA!

I'm enjoying this show very much, it's been a light heart school romance for long. But it still has the capability to quench my heart because of the character, it's impossible to hate any of them now.

I don't really worry about what is coming next. As I've known the spoiler, I believe there are still some events left to solve. But my biggest concern is the happiness for all the girls in the end. It has managed to pain my heart, but I want somewhat a light-heart ending so we and the characters can all smile in the end. Would hate it if this follows the KimiNozo preset >.<.

[serenade_beta]

I think it has been a while since I've seen an anime induce such a vicious coupling war. At least never expected this anime to cause so it.
Now I hope they can keep it up.

[vio5555]

Originally Posted by hyl

Spoiler for comparison to Akane-iro ni Somaru Saka:

Unlike Akasaka anime, the main character in Mashiphony, Shingo, did not fall in in love with the main heroine. Eventhough Yuuhi kept the plot somewhat moving in the Akasaka anime, her role is different compared to Airi's. So i disagree that this anime is like Akane iro ni Somaru Saka.

Spoiler for comparison to Akane-iro:

I'm not sure what you're talking about; in that anime Yuuhi was the main heroine, and in this anime, Airi is the main heroine. In both animes, the main character realizes his love for and confesses to a side heroine.

While you are correct that there is a difference in that Yuuhi was a part of the love triangle in Akane-iro, whereas Airi is not a part of it and is an observer as well as a consoling shoulder, that doesn't negate the comparison of main heroines ending up on the sidelines of the actual pairing...

I know the most obvious comparison is Shuffle, but that anime is so unique in terms of how it played out that I don't use it for comparisons...

[hyl]

Originally Posted by vio5555

Spoiler for comparison to Akane-iro:

I'm not sure what you're talking about; in that anime Yuuhi was the main heroine, and in this anime, Airi is the main heroine. In both animes, the main character realizes his love for and confesses to a side heroine.

While you are correct that there is a difference in that Yuuhi was a part of the love triangle in Akane-iro, whereas Airi is not a part of it and is an observer as well as a consoling shoulder, that doesn't negate the comparison of main heroines ending up on the sidelines of the actual pairing...

I know the most obvious comparison is Shuffle, but that anime is so unique in terms of how it played out that I don't use it for comparisons...

Spoiler for Difference:

Airi ended up in the sidelines because her route did not progress, Yuuhi's route did progress but got shafted at the end when Junichi also had deep feelings for Minato and choose her instead. And like i have said Yuuhi's role and Airi's role are different because yuuhi was still a possible love interest up untill the end, while Airi's chances were low after episode 6 and are completely 0% now after episode 10. Airi ended being the observer role half way, while yuuhi was still possibly an endgirl

[thunderhawk77]

Spoiler for one man's greedy wishes for the future..:

Even though I am a Sana and Airi fan just from looking at the pics for ep10 I will have to admit that is going to be a Miu ending. To change it from that ending with only 2 episodes to go will be too much of a forced ending and will not do the series justice. Normally I hate a series like this when the main character chooses a girl other than the one/s I like but this series has done such a good job at creating the path that the story travels that you really can’t hate the series. I do hate that neither Sana nor Airi are not the girl he chooses but I can live with it. (Ask me that after I actually see Sana crying thought lol)

As a non speaker or reader of Japanese I can only hope now that they create a few OVAs that follow the other girl’s paths especially Sana and Airi as i feel their stories really only got half told. Maybe 3-4 episodes for each girl might be enough if they are dedicate entirely to the girl. I would love watch how these stories pan out. The chances of this happening though are next to none since of course it is a Japanese show so the mindset would be if people want the other stories then they can just play the VN so those of us like me outside Japan miss out.

I would mention the idea of a 24 episode Amagami SS style series (remaining 4 girls - 6 episodes each) but I think I remember an earlier idea shot down.

At the very least I would love if they did a Ore no Imouto and recreated the last 3 episodes following maybe an anime original Sana path since she has been pretty much the other main girl in the second half of this series. I don't think that it would be forcing anything to much since Sana and Miu story is so entwined.

It could follow something like this:-
"At the start of the first episode instead of Shingo confessing to Miu he is just comforting her about something but Sana gets it wrong and runs off. Shingo chases after her and then the swing in the rain scene it is Shingo instead of Airi comforting her. They can have a heart to heart conversation where Sana finally opens up to Shingo, not necessarily confessing. Then using the rest of that and the following episodes to create a story that draws the two of them together, with it all culminating in them confessing to one another in the last episode."

This series has been done so well in terms of making me take an interest in the characters that i feel ripped off that they haven't delved further into the other characters backgrounds/issues more. The issues between Airi and her mum! Why Sana hates men and why she has troubles dealing with her feelings for Shingo - If i remember reading correctly there is a whole family issue for Sana being like this.


I wonder if the show is popular/profitable enough for them to think of any of these ideas? wishful thinking i think

[relentlessflame]

Spoiler for Episode 10 as it relates to other similar anime in general:

I think there are some superficial similarities between this show and some others that have tried to go for an apparent "non-canon heroine" (or developed a heroine to some degree before later developing another). But I think what sets this show apart is in the careful foreshadowing and execution. Basically, I would say that this show did the transition properly; the foundation was clearly laid and it simply followed-through towards the most natural conclusion of on-going developments. Meanwhile, it did it in such a way that didn't require taking people out-of-character, or applying some forced after-the-fact re-interpretation of earlier scenes (in the show) to fit the outcome. We knew all along that Shingo was attracted to Miu, but we might not have expected early on that the plot would lead for him to end up with her for a variety of reasons. But the anime developed the plot such that things naturally fell into place and drew Shingo and Miu to each other, so as we follow the show end-to-end we can say "I see how we got here." That's more than I can honestly say for some of the other shows we might compare with.

In considering all the romance anime I've seen over the years, I think this will be the show I compare to going forward when I want to point to an example of this sort of plot development that makes sense and was executed well. There are some other shows that I think did this pretty well (though that didn't stop them from being controversial too, of course), but none in quite so convincing a way... at least in my opinion.

[vio5555]

Originally Posted by serenade_beta

I think it has been a while since I've seen an anime induce such a vicious coupling war. At least never expected this anime to cause so it.
Now I hope they can keep it up.

Vicious? It's a start I suppose; there hasn't been anything yet that's gotten close to the flame wars that erupted over True Tears although I haven't been paying that much attention. Personally though, I kind of hope we don't ever see anything like that again.

[Zavie]

Originally Posted by hyl

Spoiler for Difference:

Airi ended up in the sidelines because her route did not progress, Yuuhi's route did progress but got shafted at the end when Junichi also had deep feelings for Minato and choose her instead. And like i have said Yuuhi's role and Airi's role are different because yuuhi was still a possible love interest up untill the end, while Airi's chances were low after episode 6 and are completely 0% now after episode 10. Airi ended being the observer role half way, while yuuhi was still possibly an endgirl

Spoiler for Akane-iro and Mashiro-iro:

If I remember the anime right, the ending was also a joke with no official coupling whatsoever. Yuuhi still stayed with Minato and Junichi, and all the rabu-rabu comedy kept going. Unlike Mashiro, this is really the end for Airi as she knows the painful truth now.

From what I see, the only similarity of the is the winner in the end are somewhat different from the public's opinion, that's it...

[serenade_beta]

Originally Posted by vio5555

Vicious? It's a start I suppose; there hasn't been anything yet that's gotten close to the flame wars that erupted over True Tears although I haven't been paying that much attention. Personally though, I kind of hope we don't ever see anything like that again.

Well, not so vicious here. Elsewhere, I mean. I'm glad it isn't so vicious here.
Though it can be fun too.

There is no way it could be as... "incredible" as True Tears though, because it was a lot more obvious in this anime that Miu was gonna end up with Shingo, so it felt that people who hoped Sana could somehow come out as the winner and got mad or disappointed at this episode was wishing for too much. True Tears was until the last couple of episodes and was more of a fight (literally, in one episode).

[hyl]

Originally Posted by Zavie

Spoiler for Akane-iro and Mashiro-iro:

If I remember the anime right, the ending was also a joke with no official coupling whatsoever. Yuuhi still stayed with Minato and Junichi, and all the rabu-rabu comedy kept going. Unlike Mashiro, this is really the end for Airi as she knows the painful truth now.

From what I see, the only similarity of the is the winner in the end are somewhat different from the public's opinion, that's it...

Spoiler for difference:

The anime did end with the joke that yuuhi did not give up on Junichi yet, but it does not change the fact that Minato was choosen by Junichi at the end and Yuuhi was the centre of the story. Due to the plot in which those 2 were possible engaged.
Yuuhi was always the focus in the AkaSaka anime, while Airi was reduced to a supporting character half way. So i still think that those 2 characters does not have the same role in the story, except they were considered to be the main heroines in those games.

Originally Posted by serenade_beta

Well, not so vicious here. Elsewhere, I mean. I'm glad it isn't so vicious here.
Though it can be fun too.

There is no way it could be as... "incredible" as True Tears though, because it was a lot more obvious in this anime that Miu was gonna end up with Shingo, so it felt that people who hoped Sana could somehow come out as the winner and got mad or disappointed at this episode was wishing for too much. True Tears was until the last couple of episodes and was more of a fight (literally, in one episode).

Spoiler for just in case spoilers:

I actually felt the drama in True Tears a little too dragged seeing that there was no clear "winner" untill the last episode. It felt for me less realistic the longer the indecisiveness went on, pretty like the manga Kimi no Iru Machi

[vio5555]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

Spoiler for Episode 10 as it relates to other similar anime in general:

I think there are some superficial similarities between this show and some others that have tried to go for an apparent "non-canon heroine" (or developed a heroine to some degree before later developing another). But I think what sets this show apart is in the careful foreshadowing and execution. Basically, I would say that this show did the transition properly; the foundation was clearly laid and it simply followed-through towards the most natural conclusion of on-going developments. Meanwhile, it did it in such a way that didn't require taking people out-of-character, or applying some forced after-the-fact re-interpretation of earlier scenes (in the show) to fit the outcome. We knew all along that Shingo was attracted to Miu, but we might not have expected early on that the plot would lead for him to end up with her for a variety of reasons. But the anime developed the plot such that things naturally fell into place and drew Shingo and Miu to each other, so as we follow the show end-to-end we can say "I see how we got here." That's more than I can honestly say for some of the other shows we might compare with.

In considering all the romance anime I've seen over the years, I think this will be the show I compare to going forward when I want to point to an example of this sort of plot development that makes sense and was executed well. There are some other shows that I think did this pretty well (though that didn't stop them from being controversial too, of course), but none in quite so convincing a way... at least in my opinion.

Spoiler for comparisons:

I think the one weakness though (maybe more of a gripe from the viewer's point of view than a real weakness) is that Shingo didn't really reveal who he sees as dating material until more than halfway through the series.

That's what I think Vena has been pointing out in terms of saying there was an abrupt shift after episode 6. While I disagree that it should be placed in those words, it is true that it's only after episode 6 that he reveals which girls he's aware of from the perspective of who he'd like to be with or who he has eyes for as a woman.

I hate to keep bringing up Akane-Iro, but Akane-Iro actually portrayed that well. Sure that show had its own glaring weaknesses in terms of execution, but the one thing that it did well was make clear that he saw Minato as a woman (noticing her cleavage in episode 4 was a very big hint, he was aware of her as a woman in an obvious way), whereas he really didn't do that for Yuuhi anywhere to that extent. I mean to say that the episode where they all come out in dresses, the only girl he has eyes for is Minato.

Obviously, the two male characters are entirely different, and I'm not saying either way is preferable or not.

I just think that there are going to be viewers who say that it would have helped to throw in some kinds of romantic hints towards Miu in the first 6 episodes. He has his interactions with her, but there's nothing more than his typical compassion.

Personally, I don't really mind that he held his cards close to the vest, but I see the argument for why there maybe should have been some hints dropped.

That's why the anime I think of privately as an archetype for this kind of situation is True Tears. But that has the problem of alienating a half of the people who watched it and hated it because they saw it as a shipping show. I still think that's probably among the best executed romance anime, I've seen to date; it's just hard to use that as a comparison when so many hate it for the ending...

[Zavie]

Originally Posted by hyl

Spoiler for difference:

The anime did end with the joke that yuuhi did not give up on Junichi yet, but it does not change the fact that Minato was choosen by Junichi at the end and Yuuhi was the centre of the story. Due to the plot was around their possible engagement.
Yuuhi was always the focus in the AkaSaka anime, while Airi was reduced to a supporting character half way. So i still think that those 2 characters does not have the same role in the story, except they were considered to be the main heroines in those games.

Spoiler for Differences...:

Absolutely, that's why I said the only similarity of the two show is that the winners in the end are different from what most people would expect watching the show (or stereotype thinking)...

[hyl]

Originally Posted by vio5555

Spoiler for comparisons:

I think the one weakness though (maybe more of a gripe from the viewer's point of view than a real weakness) is that Shingo didn't really reveal who he sees as dating material until more than halfway through the series.

That's what I think Vena has been pointing out in terms of saying there was an abrupt shift after episode 6. While I disagree that it should be placed in those words, it is true that it's only after episode 6 that he reveals which girls he's aware of from the perspective of who he'd like to be with or who he has eyes for as a woman.

Spoiler for Spoiler:

Shingo fell actually in love with Miu after he knows her better (the last few episodes). So i don't think that it was a weakness, but rather a strength, because it developed the characters first before picking his love interest

Originally Posted by vio5555

Spoiler for comparisons:

I hate to keep bringing up Akane-Iro, but Akane-Iro actually portrayed that well. Sure that show had its own glaring weaknesses in terms of execution, but the one thing that it did well was make clear that he saw Minato as a woman (noticing her cleavage in episode 4 was a very big hint, he was aware of her as a woman in an obvious way), whereas he really didn't do that for Yuuhi anywhere to that extent. I mean to say that the episode where they all come out in dresses, the only girl he has eyes for is Minato.

Spoiler for spoiler:

Junichi also did feel attracted to yuuhi many times in the anime, not just Minato though. And Akasaka anime is the more traditional harem anime, while Mashiphony is not. I still disagree on comparing this anime with Akasaka

Originally Posted by vio5555

Spoiler for comparisons:

I just think that there are going to be viewers who say that it would have helped to throw in some kinds of romantic hints towards Miu in the first 6 episodes. He has his interactions with her, but there's nothing more than his typical compassion.

Spoiler for spoiler:

There were some minor hints in the first 6 episodes, but there were not many of those hints because the focus of those episodes were not about Miu (first few episodes were meant to solve Airi's problem)

Originally Posted by vio5555

Spoiler for comparisons:

That's why the anime I think of privately as an archetype for this kind of situation is True Tears. But that has the problem of alienating a half of the people who watched it and hated it because they saw it as a shipping show. I still think that's probably among the best executed romance anime, I've seen to date; it's just hard to use that as a comparison when so many hate it for the ending...

Spoiler for True Tears:

The ending did not bother me as much as the execution of the anime to get to it. Hiromi's problems were already solved in episode 10 (i am pretty sure Noe's problems were solved earlier, but the anime created more new problems for Noe after episode 10), while the anime still stretched 3 episodes to get to the final choice. I would not call that good execution

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by vio5555

Spoiler for comparisons:

I think the one weakness though (maybe more of a gripe from the viewer's point of view than a real weakness) is that Shingo didn't really reveal who he sees as dating material until more than halfway through the series.

That's what I think Vena has been pointing out in terms of saying there was an abrupt shift after episode 6. While I disagree that it should be placed in those words, it is true that it's only after episode 6 that he reveals which girls he's aware of from the perspective of who he'd like to be with or who he has eyes for as a woman.

[...]

I just think that there are going to be viewers who say that it would have helped to throw in some kinds of romantic hints towards Miu in the first 6 episodes. He has his interactions with her, but there's nothing more than his typical compassion.

Spoiler for The show to this point:

I think there are a few more hints than you think. We see him take special notice of Miu in episode 1 (everyone else commented on Pannya, but that wasn't what Shingo was entranced by at all), and she's the only girl he blushes about in Episode 2 when recalling his introduction to her (which had hints of a "fateful encounter"). The dialog here was pretty telling, and I pointed it out back when I watched that episode. The things that happened in the intermediary episodes brought them closer together in small ways (including the scene in Episode 4), and he started worrying about her in Episode 5, but her plot was in the background until half-way through Episode 6. So the foundation for his feelings for Miu were placed in the early episodes, but they weren't really developed until the time came. It wasn't until the ensuing episodes, and the plot that brought them together, that he realized that his desire to help her meant he loved her.

So I would say that the hints were in fact there in the early episodes; she was certainly a person he was interested in from the start, and his blushing and general attitude suggested to me even back then that he might be attracted to her. Of course, at the time, I didn't predict they would develop it this way either -- his attraction to her could have resulted in him joining the club and helping her out, but other things could have drawn him in other directions later. So I don't think this is the sort of show where you can really say "he's only ever been in love with one person from the start" (which Akane-iro was trying to say, along with True Tears), but rather that "he's been interested in her from the start, and fate drew them together". I'd say it's "a" justified ending, as opposed to the only possible one (but after Episode 6, the plot did shift, as the focus became on closing doors as opposed to opening them).

[Candyshark]

Wah ... I was wrong in so many points I don't know where to start.

Spoiler for Episode 10:

I'm glad for Shingo and Miu. Even though scene felt a titsy bit flat on impact it seemed so natural for them to be together. The signs were so obvious for me I was distrustful - shame on me. Series were very clever in plenty of points that you need volumes in size of relentlessflame's posts to cover them all. I definitely intend to marathon anime again despite watching every episode like 3-4 times.

I wonder if it will be safe to call Airi the "Gatekeeper" to introduce main guy, Miu "Primary Girl" and Sana "True Heroine"?

There are still issues unsolved romance isn't only theme that goes strong in this show and i didn't get my KISS scene!!

[karuroso]

Spoiler for ep10: what the...:

hell! D= wait a freaking second! I like Miu but come on... I first started to watch this series because of Airi and since she basically filled at start all the major points of a main heroine I wasn't very much worried about not being her ending, even when she was left on the sidelines the last episodes, but now it's gonna be a Miu ending!? I can't believe and I feel like I was trolled very hard this time, even though the series hinted it could be a Miu ending...but but BUT D= I always felt Airi had the main heroine card at her disposal...the only hope I have now is that we still have two eps left and as others already pointed, this kind of situation happened before in Aken-iro (which by the way I hated that ending)even though there are some differences...but I'm not gonna give up! I want to see Airi ending T_T

[AzureWrath]

And thus, this whole thread threads into spoiler tag wars. Need more pics (which might go under spoiler tags lol!)